Its time to defeat the powers that be - by adopting communisim!

Originally posted by MainframeII

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by MainframeII

 

Couldn't all the revenue needed to run government and pay the 26K per person per year be generated by a single sales tax? Usually the more you earn the more you spend. The wealthy spend more, so they end up contributing more in taxes. This way you can abolish the IRS and save a whole lot of cash. A sales tax of 10 to 15% across the board would be affordable by all people under your system, if there is no income tax.

I especially don't like the teared system of income tax. It takes away incentive.

Income tax would still be needed in my system because of the caplitist portion that would still exist in a controlled form. The government would be in-fluxing the system with $26k x #people every year and essentially forcing them to spend it on basic needs, education and some privileged allowances or they'll be taxed for it cycling it back to the government for the next year. Income tax would take place for any money you make on top of the $26k from your job or investments. How much wealth "you make and have" will dictate this new income tax. 5% of the wealthiest spend more, but at the same time this system needs to have limits how wealthy you can get in order to cycle back the $26k of spent money circulating the system that ends up in your pocket on top of your own $26k.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by MainframeII]

The only exception to this income tax system would be commodities and natural resource companies, but not their employees, since they will have all they're product at a fixed price always. Derivative companies that manufacture products from commodities and natural resources will also have exemptions due to fixed profit margins. It is possible and the shift from our current system to this new one wouldn't be difficult if government decided to implement it now at our current commodity and natural resource prices.

Originally posted by zappafan1
reply to post by MainframeII

 

What America needs is The Flat Tax. Companies from around the world will flock to our shores and in a short time our GDP would double if not triple. There would be no federal taxation at all, and Social Security, medicare, etc, would be paid for. Take a few hours to read and check it out for yourself:
www.fairtax.org...

Unfortunately, it will be an uphill fight because the Marxists currently in control of the government, on both sides of the aisle, would lose their power, and it would be back where it belongs, in the hands of the working class.

Hey friend!! I'm going to suggest that you start a thread ASAP based on that Fair Tax dot org website and abolishing the IRS.

I'm adding you to my friends list.

Originally posted by zappafan1
Originally posted by count66
"For years I was an ardent capitalist. I bought the dream that if you work hard, provide for your family and give your kids a decent education that anything is possible in this so called free society. That our destiny was forged in our own hands and that state intervention was unnecessary and unwarranted."

REPLY: You're still young enough to educate yourself, like the "rich" have done, and make your life better. What have you done to do that? You've been working maybe eight years as an adult, make how much do you expect to be making? I believe you need to do some other math and see what it costs your employer to provide you and your fellow workers with your jobs, like mandatory unemployment benefits, insurance and such, then the taxes they have to pay local, state and federal taxes.... all of which come out of your potential wages, and subtract that from the 90% you mention. Capitalism worked for them, so ask yourself this question: What can I do to be in that position? Are you willing to do that? basically, it sounds like your whining because you don't have what it takes to improve your own situation.

"..... where our planet is raped and destroyed and where the wealth is so unevenly distributed that 10% of the worlds population control 85% of the worlds assets....."

REPLY: So, for George Soros, Castro and Chavez it's OK... who produce nothing for their people, but those evil rich companies who provide jobs are evil? Don't get me started on the "wrecked the planet" hoax.


"...In the meantime the 90% of us that are left behind are forced to beg for work or for meagre social welfare handouts to support or familes or in many cases starve. This in turn leads to war, social disruption, crime, disease etc."

REPLY: Again, if government got out of the way, it would be easier to make your lot in life better.

"....The communist manifesto is true democracy where every citizen has control over the wealth that they generate and the right to access all the fundamentals neccesary to sustain life."

REPLY: A democracy is nothing more than mob rule. No Democracy has lasted for more than 200 years, and there's a reason for that. The only people who truly benefit from communism is the people at the top...... the same thing you criticize the corporations of doing.

"....There is a new world order being planned by the powers that be and that is to further interlock the world into the current capitalist system which owns all of us as slaves through economic poverty."

REPLY: You just defined Marxism, Socialism and Communism. And at the head of it in America is Barrack.

"This is the main conspiracy of today - to continue to trap us in the hamsters wheel of illusionary democracy and capitalist production."

REPLY: America is not, and never has been, a Democracy.

".... Ask yourself 3 questions if you think communism is such a bad idea -

1) Why do the powers that be seek to crush it ruthlessly wherever it tries to take root if it is not a genuine threat to their ideals.

REPLY: Because it has never worked and, if you run the numbers, never can work.

2) Why is the communist manifesto consistently lied about as being undemocratic when it fact it espouses the most liberal form of democracy that their is.

REPLY: The most liberal form of democracy is slavery.

3) If the current system is the true way to wealth why is the majority of the world growing poorer and the rich getting richer

REPLY: Because government gets in the way.

ok guy with communism there is no actual government, there is no one group of people telling you how to live your lives. there is just a basic understanding that you are in control of your own life and being destructive will only come back around and destroy you in the end and by saying that a one world government is communism.. well that is just complete ignorance on your part my friend

reply to post by consciencious observer


Now that isn't nice! And there was no need for all the quoting.
Don't be surprised if there isn't a mod edit to your post, for an overly large quote.




[edit on 5/4/09 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by Question
Communism is no different a pipe dream than capitalism is. The biggest problem with communism, is that you already give up what little you already have, and give it to some power hungry megalomaniac. Whether it's communism or capitalism, as long as there is corruption, people will find ways of exploiting it. Communism will put us in an even worse position. Just look at China and how they treat their workers, or Cuba.

you need to rethink your definition of communism and instead of use the one that has been shoved down our throats by the elitests to make it look bad mind you. you need to see that true communism is actually about free choice and that every single person on this planet will have the right to vote on what takes place. instead of the few hoarding everything for themselves and making the masses, who which of course gave the few all the power ,which is the current system. you need to understand that communism is not about giving the power to the few but putting it where it belongs in the hands of all the people on this planet and once again you all should try to be more optimistic with all of this and maybe you might actually some real information for once in your lives

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

Now that isn't nice! And there was no need for all the quoting.
Don't be surprised if there isn't a mod edit to your post, for an overly large quote.

[edit on 5/4/09 by John Matrix]

please forgive me i am still somewhat new to the whole blog thing so please understand that i have not fully mastered the proper way.

Originally posted by consciencious observer

Originally posted by MainframeII
This leads to another topic here

In response to the OP, a One World Government would not be bad if everyone on the planet still has the right to vote. That government still has to remain democratic. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening yet. Many of the people in charge have a record of being power hungry, greedy and work on self interest. What's happening is that they are making the global banking/economic system separate from the political system especially democratic political systems. Democracy has problems too if the majority of its people are uneducated and decide to vote for a leader out of kinship than what is actually a better logical solution that's why education must be made mandatory for everyone so they can see the big picture. Also our leaders must become not only leaders but educators which leads to another human problem. Ethics. Ethics must be central to all education.

you missing the point there is to be no actual government but that doesnt mean that parts of the judicial and economic systems in place cant come along. all that needs to be done is the simple reform of those two to where they will fit into the ideals of true communism and i am taking this directly from one of the OP's earlier posts dammit i cannot find the one i wanted either way you should read back throughout this whole thread to better understand communism

I do understand. I guess I'm more concerned with the drastic change to full and ideal communism. For example, human nature is rebellious no matter the system but its usually due to a lack of understanding (education) and our survival instinct. Provide for basic needs, thus eliminate survival worries, and education the people will limit our rebellious nature. Barrack's idea of an open and transparent government is ideal and should be this way. Also, in true communism, a central administrative agency must exist in order to run the administration (such as voting), judicial and economic systems. Who runs this agency must be appointed or elected and essentially this agency becomes a pseudo government. Then there is the need for quick response in times of crisis (natural or not). That system needs a the ability to decide and response quickly so a military system may also be needed. Remember, Communism didn't work also simply because of external influence such as capitalists influencing its progression along with basic human nature. Any system we decide on to replace our current system with must take into consideration all aspects of human nature and educate everyone on benefits of not breaking the system but allow to make it better. Now I think a true communist system is possible where they're is no government but still a central agency. That system would be Internet driven. It would become a citizen's responsibility to educate and then vote on all issue via the Internet with in allowed time limits to generate a fast accumulative response to any scenario. The central agency would then administer this Internet people's government (a true people's government).

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

Now that isn't nice! And there was no need for all the quoting.
Don't be surprised if there isn't a mod edit to your post, for an overly large quote.




[edit on 5/4/09 by John Matrix]

and i never intended to be mean in any way ignorance is just any easier way of saying that said person does not know all the facts.

Originally posted by consciencious observer

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

What if a neighbor raped my daughter and I want to kill his family as revenge?

well hopefully these barbaric urges such as rape and what not will be subsided when standards are raised for those that feel those urges partly due to thee injustices of todays unfair society but if it were still to happen then i believe such things as an eye for an eye and instead of killing his family maybe take this persons "innocence" away from them LOL not really, that is not how it will work the idea is that you are making a situation where all are happy with being on this planet and would have no reason to do harm to others because there is nobody who is less deserving stepping on the already oppressed and grinding them even farther into the dirt pushing them to the point where they just want to rape and pillage away

Rape and other crimes are not caused solely by oppression. Oppression can be a factor. Take the one Kennedy guy that raped the girl. Do you think he did this because his basic needs werent met? What about Mike Tyson? He raped women even when he was at the peak of his earning power. What about OJ? All of his basic needs were more then met, but he still killed his wife.

I think I have the solution. We can all be communist right after they give us all labotomies (sp?) Then we wont want more than the next guy, or have different religious beliefs, or want to have sex. We can just sit around all day eating crappy food, in our crappy houses that are all the same, and drive our crappy cars to the crappy malls that are all the same. A labotomy will make all of this mediocrity tolerable.

reply to post by MainframeII


and this is why i am glad that i got started voicing my opinion on this site.finally some evolutionary thinkers are actually being stirred up by what is being said . instead of arguing until proven wrong then disappearing from the discussion all together someone actually used some of their higher brain function and came up with a solution

i completely agree with you that there does need to be some kind of organization organizing the whole deal and have myself been contemplating such things. the one thing is tho that this organization can never become more powerful than the people and the people must take it upon them to monitor the organization and keep them inline with unanimous voting all this done of course using the internet agree??

[edit on 5-4-2009 by consciencious observer]

reply to post by cbianchi513

Yeah nice one pal,
So you read a few books about this that and the other thing.
I've lived in the States for 35 years and ran a business up to corp level.
You know what I got out of it? TAXES!
Now I live in Vietnam. This is truly a free society. The thing that upsets me is that the money here is so low because the bankers say so. Why? Because Vietnam lives by their own rules, not the bankers rules.
I see everybody opening shops and not needing to pay any fricken government fees and all that BS just to make a living.
When the war ended here in 75', millions died because of US sanctions. They starved to death. Was any of that in your books? How about Ho Chi Mihn went to the US for help first. The US said OK, then no showed when the fighting started. So HCM went to Russia for help. Then the US had an issue. What a load of s--t. All in the name of profit through war. What do you thing the US GDP is? Try war machines. I'll tell ya man, I have no love for the french or the catholic church.
Kennedy was shot by that a--hole riding shotgun in the car with him. Yeah that's right, the secret service killed him because he wasn't about to go to war over some church BS being taxed in Hanoi.
Bunch of BS, money grubben A--holes and bible thumpen freaks running the show getting everybody killed.
Man I tell ya. I left the states just after I saw McCain try to run for office. What a lying sack of dog sh-t. He was so busted up from the crash, the north Vietnamese doctors did all that they could to saved his life. They didn't torcher him at all. It's called propaganda. McDickhead is still playing that game. Now to the general public in the US. Oh poor me I need your vote. I'm a war hero. Big time Charlie. Fu-ken go to hell McBush. You know what ? I think he would have been a perfect fit in the system as we know it today. Yeah, more lies and betrayal to the American people.
If any person out there really want the truth about what's going on.. Leave the states and then pick up a book. Turn on the TV. Read a paper. You think the net isn't censored? I can't even type the F word here.
I only NOW know true freedom. I feel like I've jut stepped out of prison after a 35 years.
Tomorrow I'll be going fishing without a license and getting drunk on the beach and not have the cops (SS) bother me.
Enjoy your books and the NWO.

FREEDOM!!!!

Ok one last point.
Some of my favorite people on this planet are this Vietnamese family. Part of this family escaped from Vietnam as boat people. I kind of envy the men who escaped because they took on a huge challenge and overcame it. They risked there lives so there families could have a better life. I realized I had never faced such a challenge and so I had never really been tested on the value of the things in my life.

Plus, I have been to Vietnam, where I have spent time with people who have much less than I have ever had. They have this dignity about them that I cant explain, and no one in America really has this. So having everything you need does not necessarily make you a better more satisfied human being. Sometimes its overcoming and surviving that builds charachter and makes the human existence more satisfying.

Peace out!

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


those examples are the other side of the spectrum those individuals had the power , knew they could get away with it, and only get so much as a smack on the wrist. If you were to make everyone equal with the same opportunities and rights then there should be no reason for any evil act to be done

reply to post by consciencious observer


People have been killing each other since the begining of man. Its just our nature. Communism is not going to take away peoples need to be selfish and controlling to a degree. My guess is it will make it worse, because in your theory people will have more free time on their hands. This gives them more time to sit around and think about how everyone else around them is screwing them over. Then some small portion will decide the best solution is to kill that other person.

Changing government does not change mental illness or selfishness or sociopathic behavior etc...

[edit on 5-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]

reply to post by zappafan1


Firstly I'm a qualified accountant as well as a qualified physicist who earns well above the average.

Why, because I was lucky enough to have been born into a family that could provide me with a good education which in turn I have been able to use to my advantage in the real world.

So next time don't be so smug and think that anyone who supports a more fair and equal system is someone who works in a dead end job and who has a low level of education.

Secondly, that very education that has been given to me which has allowed me to be successful as an adult has also allowed me to see the inherent unfairness of a system that rewards the already advantaged and which further deprives those who do not have.

Again I state the fact that 100 children die every hour in this world from hunger - what is capitalism doing for them - what chance do they have to better themselves as you say - that is the world we live in and please stop been so narrow sighted as to see only your nation whichever one that may be - you are a member of the human race first and foremost and not of some imaginary geographic line.

Capitalism is a nasty evil system which kills thousands each day in this world and will never change as by definition capitalism is one whereby you increase your capital at the expense of someone else so there always is and always will be a loser and when the playing field is not even fair then the disadvantaged will always become more disadvantaged - again the statistics globally back this up.

If anyone out there can provide one global statistic that shows over the last 30 years how capitalism has benefited the people of this world I would love to see it. I can provide plenty that show the opposite.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

People have been killing each other since the begining of man. Its just our nature. Communism is not going to take away peoples need to be selfish and controlling to a degree. My guess is it will make it worse, because in your theory people will have more free time on their hands. This gives them more time to sit around and think about how everyone else around them is screwing them over. Then some small portion will decide the best solution is to kill that other person.

throughout history people fought for survival only because they were to dam stupid to realize that we were put here not to fight but to use this planet to our advantage while at the same time taking care of her as she has done for us for millenia and as far as the selfish and controlling go well both demands will be easily met, when it comes to the individual of course as long as the individual earns the luxuries that he so desires they have every right not to share with a friend or family member because it is their own item. and with the controlling well they can put the desire to good use and instead of relying on money to buy votes(which in true communism money is non existent anyways )but simply use persuasion and good argumentative skills to sway the total populace



and with communism true hardwork and creativity are the only things rewarded. there will be no one person telling anybody what to do just because they have the right name.

reply to post by consciencious observer

Talking about evil? That's like talking about the vast majority of the human race. Humans feed on evil. I've seen a man get shot in the head for a buck fifty. That's what he had in his pocket. This was in California. Now I'm in a country where 70% of the people are below the age of 30. Why do you think that is? It's a population of 83 million people.
I hate history. Books of lies to make the bankers actions seem less criminal and monstrous.
In school I keep hearing about what a monster Hitler was but I never heard anything about Stalin. Why? Stalin killed 4x more people than Hitler.
Money.... If you have it, you can tell your story.
That's why nobody in the States knows about the deaths in Vietnam after the war. The US starved most of the country to death. North and South.
Yeah, Evil sh-t man.

Originally posted by consciencious observer

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

People have been killing each other since the begining of man. Its just our nature. Communism is not going to take away peoples need to be selfish and controlling to a degree. My guess is it will make it worse, because in your theory people will have more free time on their hands. This gives them more time to sit around and think about how everyone else around them is screwing them over. Then some small portion will decide the best solution is to kill that other person.

throughout history people fought for survival only because they were to dam stupid to realize that we were put here not to fight but to use this planet to our advantage while at the same time taking care of her as she has done for us for millenia and as far as the selfish and controlling go well both demands will be easily met, when it comes to the individual of course as long as the individual earns the luxuries that he so desires they have every right not to share with a friend or family member because it is their own item. and with the controlling well they can put the desire to good use and instead of relying on money to buy votes(which in true communism money is non existent anyways )but simply use persuasion and good argumentative skills to sway the total populace



and with communism true hardwork and creativity are the only things rewarded. there will be no one person telling anybody what to do just because they have the right name.

ergo there will nobody being screwed over so the need/ for screwing someone else over is taken out

Count you know I love you dude. I dont know if I can show a global statistic, but capitalism brought you..
The car
The plane
The train
The computer
The hubble telescope (via taxes on capitalistic companies and competing designs by capitalistic companies hoping to make that evil profit)
A better standard of living for the Western World.
The suburban castle.
The Hummer
Movies
Donations for the Arts
Rich Artists
Modern day super Sports
Continued advancement in every product on the planet through competition to gain more market share.
and on and on and on.

Just an example, now I know that the USSR was not communist as you see it, but it is a good example of removing competition from the world.

Look at a car or a supermarket from the Soviet Union (before it collapsed) and compare it to a Western car or suparmarket from the same period.