Its time to defeat the powers that be - by adopting communisim!

reply to post by DarkSecret


In true communism there are no state owned medias as there is no state.

These comments come back to a lack of understanding of communism vs autocratic dictatorships.

Have you read the communist manifesto or anything written by Trotsky?

Originally posted by DarkSecret

Originally posted by consciencious observer
reply to post by DarkSecret

 

ALRIGHT SO MAYBE CAPITALISM ITSELF IS NOT THE EVIL THAT IS DESTROYING THIS PLANET BUT CAPITALISM BEING AS EASILY MANIPULATED AS IT IS WILL ALWAYS ALLOW FOR THAT ONE TYRANT TO COME AROUND AND SCREW IT UP FOR ALL THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO WORK HARD TO GET THERE. WITH COMMUNISM IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO MANIPULATE ANY ONE SIDE BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY SIDES BUT STILL ONLY ONE TRUE ANSWER WHICH IS... "THE RIGHT WAY" I BEG FOR ANYONE TO DISAGREE

how can i put this in layman's terms... if capitalism can be hijacked by an "Evil tyrant" as you're saying - what about communism where there are no independent courts, the media is all state owned (ahem... owned by everybody) and the military/defense force/police are all under the same ruler?

i know no system that's better than the US system as framed by the founding fathers. obviously it too has been somewhat perverted but it always bounces back and the terrible things some of the elected officials do are reversed. the US has officially apologized to the japanese americans that were kept in camps during ww2 although they had nothing to do with the war. maybe such politicians are just too eager to serve the country and protect its people but in doing so they are hurting the very fabric of our republic...

there are no such protections under communism, just the hope that "the community" will be fair and just. the same "hope" that blacks had when they were put on trial by the KKK.

my good sir there is no reason to insult my intelligence by saying you have to use lay terms I honestly see myself as more of a translator for those that have a better vocab than those that can only understand so much and i only write this way because i have the freedom to do so. back to your response how can you say there will be no independent courts when independence is the very fabric of idea of communism.

i cant disagree with you that americas founding fathers had the rules right but they messed up by allowing majority the ability to overrule reason and logic. Hence why unanimous voting must be enacted

and honestly how are any of us going to erase the terrors of ww3 when the majority(which is wat you need in americas system to control gov) refuse to even see and try stopping their horrible agenda from occurring

reply to post by DarkSecret


Firstly colonial capitalism was and is destroying Africa - check out what Nestle, Coca Cola, Shell the mining companies etc are doing in that continent as marked by amnesty international and other such organistions.

China is no better in Africa with its capitalist leanings.

Secondly capitalist countries allow these travesties to carry on as there is no profit in invading and removing these dictators unlike Iraq which is oil abundant and everyone knows the invasion had nothing to do with 9/11.

Sadamm Hussein was a secular dictator and as such had no truck with Al Queda.

Thirdly the rise of workers standards in the western countries had to do with the organisation of the people into unions under marxist principles which forced the ruling classes to allow basic human rights such as the removal of child labour, social welfare and education.

Check out Jim Larkin etc

In fact since the demise of the unions the living standards have dropped since the 1950's for most workers - again this is borne out by the statistics.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by count66]

I total agree with the OP. Our current economic system has failed but I don't believe in anyone system like capitalism, communism or socialism. I still believe strongly in a democratic political system, it's the economic system that needs to be reworked. I wrote a blog on my site www.gpofr.com a while back dealing with this very issue. I came up with a solution that still needs more refining, but I whole heartily feel it will work to end world poverty and bring about peace.

I've post it here again:

"The Economy - A Solution
Thu, 12 Feb 2009 05:34:18 GMT

I'm going to venture away from science and related matter to once again talk about the economic crisis. The economy is being advertised as dire and horrible. First off the more we promote calamity and more it strikes fear in our neighbours and actually perpetuates economic stress. By allowing our fears be advertised on such a massive scale actually perpetuates this "pending disaster". It becomes a self-prophesied prediction and the majority of us don't even know we're doing it, but we all should know as it's vital to our future in so many ways. Now, how about those of us versed in human psychology such as the many in our news media? What I mean, is why do they continue to perpetuate dire economic predictions if they know that the content of their medium actually drives the actions of average man? If the news media were truly concerned with this "predicted" and self-perpetuating economic crisis, their best course of action would be to focus on good and positive news especially as it pertains to the economy. Good economic news, no matter how small actually perpetuates a good and healthy economy. So if President Obama attempts to deliver a solution for this economic "crisis", his first step should be to lobby the news media to focus on the positive economic news as he begins to implement an economy stimulus.

Here are some truths to note:

The economy and stock markets are emotionally driven and contract and expand in direct inverse proportion to the level of fear in the populous. - So the solution is to reduce the level of fear in the populous. Market and sell good news. We make prophesies become true and we can also make them false predictions by controlling this aspect. The media is in a perfect position to market good news and actually change the level of economic fear in the populous.

Money is and has always has been an imaginary symbol of value. Need and scarcity drives the value of this imaginary thing. - What does this mean. The value of money itself is also inversely proportional to need and proportional to scarcity of needed things. So how can we use this fact to fix things or stop them from happening? Make money itself have value by locking down prices on all commodities and natural resources no matter the scarcity. This will push the need for the supplier to supply more of what is needed in order to make more money actually creating jobs in the process. How would we lock down prices? Actually we wouldn't, the government would. The government makes money from thin air and dictates our laws based on our needs at any given moment in time (history). If we continue to perpetuate fear and "predicted" economic doom, the government has the ability to pass laws that can literally stop our economy in its tracks and start up a new form of economy in order for its population to continue meeting its needs. Now some might not favour this, but do we have a choice? Yes we do! News agencies and their owners must stop spreading fear and focus on positive news! New agencies have over many years practiced censorship of content to meet their agendas and policies so it would be very easy for their policies to change to promote more good news than bad.

continued below...

The Perfect System

Idealism is my strong suite and my major fault. I do envision a perfect economic system that would work in balance with our human nature and promote global peace by meeting our basic needs. It would be like this:


1 - Make money itself have value by locking down prices on all commodities and natural resources no matter the scarcity. This will force commodity and natural resource companies, under government oversight, to expand their production to meet demand and in the process creating jobs based on this demand.

2 - Mark product retail and wholesale values at government regulated profit margin derivatives based on the lock down cost of the manufactured product's natural resources and commodities. Everything from iPods to restaurant meal prices will be regulated within a specific profit margin based on the lock down cost of the materials and foods used to make these derivative products.

3 - Have government, or a central global economic administrative agency, via the Internet give out and administrer an amount of money or credits, say $26,000.00 (a number I calculated), to every human on Earth annually in order to provide for human basic needs no matter if you're employed or not. This will also provide universal free education! Education on the problems of over population, over consumption, environment and philosophical ethics as it pertains to preceding and basic human behavior (like needs) would be mandatory, but also allowing for any choice in career path and anytime in an individuals life.

4 - Create a tax to recycle the amount of that $26,000, forcing everyone to spend it on shelter/housing, education and eventually cycling itself back to the locked down commodities and natural resources.

5 - Allow the capitalist nature to continue in the means of this new system allowing for the accumulation of personal wealth, regulated stock and investment markets based more on returned dividends than hype (emotion). Promote technological innovation, product creation and demand for jobs be central key drivers of this capitalistic portion of the economy.

6 - Implement increased taxing based on the amount of wealth you have.

7 - The preceding steps will, in theory, eliminate inflation.


To some this might sound like communism, but its not. It is a balanced mixture of capitalism, socialism and communism as no one system is perfect. Even this proposed system needs refining but I'm truly confident a system such as this will benefit mankind greatly. If you disagree then fine. You can continue with the current system we have for as long as we may have it.

Robert L. DeMelo (www.gpofr.com) Copyright 2007, 2008, 2009 ...

and again to DARKSECRET i note you had no response to the response you gave me about distribution of goods to the people. is this maybe because i gave a valid point and you just dont want to accept the fact that their is a better way or maybe you havent seen it yet i do not know please enlighten me

reply to post by MainframeII


You make some good points but I would just like to point out that communism is a democratic solution where the people control everything through constant voting rather the once in a blue moon situation that currently exists.

Check out why Trotsky opposed Stalin - as he had removed the democratic rights of the workers to vote - that is what he died opposing.

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by MainframeII

 

You make some good points but I would just like to point out that communism is a democratic solution where the people control everything through constant voting rather the once in a blue moon situation that currently exists.

Check out why Trotsky opposed Stalin - as he had removed the democratic rights of the workers to vote - that is what he died opposing.

Very good point. Communism in its purest form is not bad if everyone gets to vote.

communism is only the doom and gloom scenario it is today because with true communism there is no such thing as profit. so of course the powers that be really dont like the idea because it does not benefit them and them alone sooo... false info is given out to make the people think that communism is the death and sorrow filled idea that it is really not

reply to post by consciencious observer


What if a neighbor raped my daughter and I want to kill his family as revenge?

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

What if a neighbor raped my daughter and I want to kill his family as revenge?

well hopefully these barbaric urges such as rape and what not will be subsided when standards are raised for those that feel those urges partly due to thee injustices of todays unfair society but if it were still to happen then i believe such things as an eye for an eye and instead of killing his family maybe take this persons "innocence" away from them LOL not really, that is not how it will work the idea is that you are making a situation where all are happy with being on this planet and would have no reason to do harm to others because there is nobody who is less deserving stepping on the already oppressed and grinding them even farther into the dirt pushing them to the point where they just want to rape and pillage away

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

What if a neighbor raped my daughter and I want to kill his family as revenge?

How does this relate to this discussion? Anyway, laws no matter the system exist to preserve human life so yuo can't just go about killing people and that goes for anyone else too much like it is now.

This leads to another topic here

In response to the OP, a One World Government would not be bad if everyone on the planet still has the right to vote. That government still has to remain democratic. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening yet. Many of the people in charge have a record of being power hungry, greedy and work on self interest. What's happening is that they are making the global banking/economic system separate from the political system especially democratic political systems. Democracy has problems too if the majority of its people are uneducated and decide to vote for a leader out of kinship than what is actually a better logical solution that's why education must be made mandatory for everyone so they can see the big picture. Also our leaders must become not only leaders but educators which leads to another human problem. Ethics. Ethics must be central to all education.

reply to post by MainframeII


Couldn't all the revenue needed to run government and pay the 26K per person per year be generated by a single sales tax? Usually the more you earn the more you spend. The wealthy spend more, so they end up contributing more in taxes. This way you can abolish the IRS and save a whole lot of cash. A sales tax of 10 to 15% across the board would be affordable by all people under your system, if there is no income tax.

I especially don't like the teared system of income tax. It takes away incentive.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by consciencious observer

 

What if a neighbor raped my daughter and I want to kill his family as revenge?

Why would you want to do that? Can't you choose to let the judicial system deal with him and leave his innocent family out of it?

What you suggest would be completely insane, and you would deserve the death penalty yourself. Then what good are you to your daughter and family if that happens? If you love your family you will do something for them, like maybe relocate to another part of the city, or move away somewhere else where there is less crime and you feel safer.

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by MainframeII

 

Couldn't all the revenue needed to run government and pay the 26K per person per year be generated by a single sales tax? Usually the more you earn the more you spend. The wealthy spend more, so they end up contributing more in taxes. This way you can abolish the IRS and save a whole lot of cash. A sales tax of 10 to 15% across the board would be affordable by all people under your system, if there is no income tax.

I especially don't like the teared system of income tax. It takes away incentive.

Income tax would still be needed in my system because of the caplitist portion that would still exist in a controlled form. The government would be in-fluxing the system with $26k x #people every year and essentially forcing them to spend it on basic needs, education and some privileged allowances or they'll be taxed for it cycling it back to the government for the next year. Income tax would take place for any money you make on top of the $26k from your job or investments. How much wealth "you make and have" will dictate this new income tax. 5% of the wealthiest spend more, but at the same time this system needs to have limits how wealthy you can get in order to cycle back the $26k of spent money circulating the system that ends up in your pocket on top of your own $26k.

[edit on 5-4-2009 by MainframeII]

Originally posted by count66
"For years I was an ardent capitalist. I bought the dream that if you work hard, provide for your family and give your kids a decent education that anything is possible in this so called free society. That our destiny was forged in our own hands and that state intervention was unnecessary and unwarranted."

REPLY: You're still young enough to educate yourself, like the "rich" have done, and make your life better. What have you done to do that? You've been working maybe eight years as an adult, make how much do you expect to be making? I believe you need to do some other math and see what it costs your employer to provide you and your fellow workers with your jobs, like mandatory unemployment benefits, insurance and such, then the taxes they have to pay local, state and federal taxes.... all of which come out of your potential wages, and subtract that from the 90% you mention. Capitalism worked for them, so ask yourself this question: What can I do to be in that position? Are you willing to do that? basically, it sounds like your whining because you don't have what it takes to improve your own situation.

"..... where our planet is raped and destroyed and where the wealth is so unevenly distributed that 10% of the worlds population control 85% of the worlds assets....."

REPLY: So, for George Soros, Castro and Chavez it's OK... who produce nothing for their people, but those evil rich companies who provide jobs are evil? Don't get me started on the "wrecked the planet" hoax.


"...In the meantime the 90% of us that are left behind are forced to beg for work or for meagre social welfare handouts to support or familes or in many cases starve. This in turn leads to war, social disruption, crime, disease etc."

REPLY: Again, if government got out of the way, it would be easier to make your lot in life better.

"....The communist manifesto is true democracy where every citizen has control over the wealth that they generate and the right to access all the fundamentals neccesary to sustain life."

REPLY: A democracy is nothing more than mob rule. No Democracy has lasted for more than 200 years, and there's a reason for that. The only people who truly benefit from communism is the people at the top...... the same thing you criticize the corporations of doing.

"....There is a new world order being planned by the powers that be and that is to further interlock the world into the current capitalist system which owns all of us as slaves through economic poverty."

REPLY: You just defined Marxism, Socialism and Communism. And at the head of it in America is Barrack.

"This is the main conspiracy of today - to continue to trap us in the hamsters wheel of illusionary democracy and capitalist production."

REPLY: America is not, and never has been, a Democracy.

".... Ask yourself 3 questions if you think communism is such a bad idea -

1) Why do the powers that be seek to crush it ruthlessly wherever it tries to take root if it is not a genuine threat to their ideals.

REPLY: Because it has never worked and, if you run the numbers, never can work.

2) Why is the communist manifesto consistently lied about as being undemocratic when it fact it espouses the most liberal form of democracy that their is.

REPLY: The most liberal form of democracy is slavery.

3) If the current system is the true way to wealth why is the majority of the world growing poorer and the rich getting richer

REPLY: Because government gets in the way.

reply to post by MainframeII

What America needs is The Flat Tax. Companies from around the world will flock to our shores and in a short time our GDP would double if not triple. There would be no federal taxation at all, and Social Security, medicare, etc, would be paid for. Take a few hours to read and check it out for yourself:
www.fairtax.org...

Unfortunately, it will be an uphill fight because the Marxists currently in control of the government, on both sides of the aisle, would lose their power, and it would be back where it belongs, in the hands of the working class.

Rework your system then, because the income tax system is way too costly, having too many laws, deductions, shelters, variables, emplyees, offices, etc.

A sales tax is more fair. Everyone pays and it doesn't require a huge costly system to implement it. 26K a year is barely going to cover basic needs, so it all gets spent and the gov. gets 15% back anyway....what more do they need?.

Originally posted by MainframeII
This leads to another topic here

In response to the OP, a One World Government would not be bad if everyone on the planet still has the right to vote. That government still has to remain democratic. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening yet. Many of the people in charge have a record of being power hungry, greedy and work on self interest. What's happening is that they are making the global banking/economic system separate from the political system especially democratic political systems. Democracy has problems too if the majority of its people are uneducated and decide to vote for a leader out of kinship than what is actually a better logical solution that's why education must be made mandatory for everyone so they can see the big picture. Also our leaders must become not only leaders but educators which leads to another human problem. Ethics. Ethics must be central to all education.

you missing the point there is to be no actual government but that doesnt mean that parts of the judicial and economic systems in place cant come along. all that needs to be done is the simple reform of those two to where they will fit into the ideals of true communism and i am taking this directly from one of the OP's earlier posts dammit i cannot find the one i wanted either way you should read back throughout this whole thread to better understand communism