Its time to defeat the powers that be - by adopting communisim!

never mind

[edit on 4/3/09 by RedDragon]

this is as sane as saying "let's defeat death by drinking poison"...

you can't be serious now... really?! the only people who benefit from this manifesto are those who can't adapt to an economy where performance is rewarded and want their paycheck to be equal with the guy who does overtime and delivers projects ahead of the deadlines. how will that stimulate innovation? how will anyone be motivated to do anything without any obvious reward? since you're getting the same house, same car, same tv as anyone else what's the point to try to be better and excel? jeezus... way to kill the evolution of anything created by humans!

reply to post by count66


This is totally false, the living standards under communist rule were always the false reports of the Soviet propaganda machine; as one Russian friend explained to me as to why I never saw any animals or fowl when in the country side around Kinecepp (about 160 Km outside of St. Petersburg), “we had to eat them all”. Indeed, just outside of the second largest city in Russia there is still no power and if you drink the water you glow in the dark; conditions are 3rd world at best, pot holes on the major highway from St. Petersburg so large traffic must slow to a crawl, trash and broken ‘flats’ that would be condemned if in an American city and hopelessness on a scale that boggles the mind; all of which were just covered over during communist rule.

I spent almost half a year at his center as a volunteer while trying to learn the culture of the people I was trained to see as the ‘enemy’, the rest of my time in Moscow and other east block countries and I was always amazed at the scars of the ‘peoples paradise’ on not only the countryside, but on the souls of the people. Very instructive for all atheist and agnostics to see the result of godless socialism; one Orthodox Priest friend of mine explained to me that in America we were blessed in that because of our faith in God, human life had value. He went on to tell me how cheap life was (and still is for the most part) in Russia when the socialist were in power; bullets to the head, ‘disappeared’ millions, people left to die in hospitals while the doctors drank, radioactive water poisoning because building weapons was more important than a mere slave of the states living conditions, stores with empty shelves and whole populations left to slowly starve so that the state could sell the produced food for ‘hard currency’. Yes, they controlled ‘religious fanaticism’ with wholesale slaughter of Jews and Christians; very progressive and tolerant.

By the way, I am married to a very well educated Russian. Her comment after reading some of the responses in this thread was “Idiots! Let them live in those conditions and they will beg to be here!” Words of wisdom from a former Soviet Socialist Republic citizen.

[edit on 4/3/2009 by SGTChas]

Originally posted by count66
reply to post by Shredderbeam

 

This is a quote taken from a definition of Fascism

" Fascist movements oppose any ideology or political system that gives direct political power to people as individuals through elected representatives rather than as a collective nation or race, that is deemed detrimental to national identity and unity and that protects and empowers people deemed weak and degenerate.

It is the weak that you don't seem to want to support as you don't wish to contribute to assist them

Correct me if I'm wrong.

That they are weak is not the reason that I do not wish to support them. What I am against is my wealth being taken away from me without my consent, which is what your system of guaranteed education, housing, etc. would end up doing.

Originally posted by SGTChas
This is totally false, the living standards under communist rule were always the false reports of the Soviet propaganda machine;

He went on to tell me how cheap life was (and still is for the most part) in Russia when the socialist were in power; bullets to the head, ‘disappeared’ millions, people left to die in hospitals while the doctors drank, radioactive water poisoning because building weapons was more important than a mere slave of the states living conditions, stores with empty shelves and whole populations left to slowly starve so that the state could sell the produced food for ‘hard currency’. Yes, they controlled ‘religious fanaticism’ with wholesale slaughter of Jews and Christians; very progressive and tolerant.

By the way, I am married to a very well educated Russian. Her comment after reading some of the responses in this thread was “Idiots! Let them live in those conditions and they will beg to be here!” Words of wisdom from a former Soviet Socialist Republic citizen.

yeah i totally agree with your assesment of the situation. those dreaming of communism have no idea what communism really was. defending communism as "not stalinism" and arguing that "before stalin russia was paradise" is pure rubbish. tv broadcasts were exactly like those in the movie 1984. "production has increased by 2000% and the standard of living has tripled in the last year" when in fact everybody knew it's bull but say anything and you and your family disappear in the middle of the night and nobody ever hears from your again.

americans hate government and blame every possible harm on it and corporations while at the same time overfilling their shopping carts with groceries, clothes, electronics and returning to their air conditioned or heated homes, never thinking that millions of people lived without heat in cold winter, without AC in hot summers, with rationed cold and hot water, with rationed sugar, cooking oil, bread, meat, milk, butter, eggs. want a TV? you need to subscribe to a list for a couple of years. want a car? wait a few years until your name comes up (or bribe some party officials to move you ahead). want an apartment? well the party leaders have priority, so you the worker need to wait. want to move to another city? it's illegal! well it used to be in those countries - you needed a special travel and relocation permit. finished school? you have to get a job! and that job is assigned to you by the communist party (government) and you can't say no. even though most times your job would be hundreds of miles away from your town or family and your income was always the same as anyone else doing the same job. well unless you bribe some party leader who would then assign you to a better position... sick? imagine a place where electricity cuts off in the hospitals... during an operation! where anestetics or sterile pads are not available and you have to bribe doctors so that they dont just walk away while you're still alive, cut open on the operating table. sounds close enough to a horror movie? because that used to be reality for most people living in russia & eastern europe. yeah that was the US' greatest and most feared enemy...

yea continue to complain about your "terrible" life. you have no idea what the alternative was and still is for many people in those glorious communist countries. the great depression wasn't even close to what communism at its mildest was.

you think you live on prison planet? communism is THE true prison where anything even the most basic human necessities were/are a constant fight.

[edit on 4-4-2009 by DarkSecret]

People seem to forget that where there is a vacuum, something will fill it. in this case it would be leadership. People like leaders. If we decided to start communism there would be multiple tribes led by people like me trying for power. I will always attempt to better my family, friends and my own position in the world.

Men are greedy. I am greedy. Every great thing ever made has been made in the name of greed or killing. Greed is the motivation for the world. Take away greed and we have apathy.

Read Atlas Shrugged

reply to post by DarkSecret


You sound as if you came out of the worker’s paradise; you even write with the same Russian to English idiomatic style as my wife (she is asleep so it is safe to type this). Is it not funny how many former communist have risked all to escape communism, and progressives want to emulate it here with whining “idiots” (wife's words) wishing for it? Amazing, truly amazing.

Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by DarkSecret

 

You sound as if you came out of the worker’s paradise; you even write with the same Russian to English idiomatic style as my wife (she is asleep so it is safe to type this). Is it not funny how many former communist have risked all to escape communism, and progressives want to emulate it here with whining “idiots” (wife's words) wishing for it? Amazing, truly amazing.

let's say that i traveled a lot and i've seen the worker's paradise before and after the iron curtain fell. most of those countries aren't much better off even today, 20 years after the fall of communism. i would assume it's because they have democratically elected the same communists that were in power before 1990... what's even funnier is that they blame the west for their still very low standard of living instead of actually using their brains and vote against the political class that came out of the communist leadership and secret service businessmen that are constantly defrauding any kind of money those countries manage to pull in... i guess the main idea here is that human stupidity knows no borders or nationality

not that anyone's gonna read this but I figure I'll offer my two cents...


it seems to me (and probably others here as well) that communism is a social experiment conducted by the powers that be, as is capitalism. It defined an era and served to support the "us and them" divide and conquer mentality. don't forget that the PTB work on a global scale, not just U.S. and Europe. nowadays they use different tactics, but for 40+ years communism vs. capitalism was sufficient enough. all economic models that currently exist in this paradigm are false and will never allow true freedom.

explore these forums more and i think you (OP) will find some good info to support this viewpoint.

what the hell is this mockery of your speech and your ideas!!

You people have lead us in to this corruption, you simply adding to there strength to gain more power of me and many like me over my rights of a man and ideas of a common man!! My fore fathers did not die to live in a nation with corrupt views upon its people!! Remember in simple terms it states! THE PEOPLE!! i dont see anything that would give the power to the government to controls us!! All i see is a bunch of whine ass Americans that have lead to this destruction to there own jobs and to the free trade market and poor senseless votes and be silent not to call there congress men to simple give your speech, your ideas, and your rights!! To you all Americans that are blind :: You have the power to reform this !! This is your right of man in America !!
Theres laws dont apply to you !! you seem to forget that!! The Consultation is my law!! not no bipartisan bill signed by congress!! Thats there simple terms to control you!! with there :: bills they call them::

my rights are laid out in front of all us!!! A simple word of Constitution


Plus in communist state you wouldnt of be able to write your words that you have documented on this page!! you would of been courted a traitor!!

in my work place i work at i have many Vietnamese that tell me it dont work!! and love there guns!! because there American citizens!!

So dont believe what your teachers have told you in collage!! remember there all f-ing liberals that hate this country !!!

I don't know if I can get on board with this. Adopt Communism? We are trying to get Government less power, Communism, in every case this planet has ever seen, has only created Dictators that Oppress the people.

I know you will say those are "not true Communist states" but lets be real.

I mean, what happens to me? Do I lose my Mustang? My house? My Current Job? Get less money in the form of some Monthly Government check?

Do we lose our freedoms? Look at China, shining example. I'm not going into the Death Van, you can keep your communism.

at least right now I CAN goto College and be somebody, I could stick with a company, kiss lots of butt and become an executive. But i'm not, because I'm admitedly LAZY.

Communism is an excuse for Laziness, nothing more.

I'd rather have the miniscule chance of becoming a millionare, rather then zero chance of it happening.

Communism in theory is awesome. Everyone works hard, everyone shares the goods and get what they need. In truth though, communism can't work.
Humans by nature get greedy. So it ends up being the same as super capitalism, the masses work hard for tablescraps while the rich get richer.

Same concept, different name. We need a new form of govt. better yet we need to bring America back to its roots. mom and pop stores. family owned businesses. work to support your family and worry about being happy, instead of whats in your wallet. Wal-mart's greed killed america...

Its not communism thats going to save us..... The only way to have a good country to live in is if its based on christian values with Jesus as the head of state. There's no country on this planet that you can live in and worship God properly as a christian!

Lol Oh yeah, coz communism has worked Soooooo good in other countries.
Seriously the only way to have a semi-non corrupt/peaceful government is to elect the Dalai Lama as the world leader.

reply to post by seanyboy


ARE YOU SERIOUS???? JESUS AND THE WHOLE CHRISTAIN CHURCH IS PROBABLY THE MOST CORRUPT ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD!!!

I'm not saying christainity is a crock or anything, I think it has values and lessons we could all learn from, but the fact is those values and lessons all came from religions long before christainity... It's just a religion like the greeks had zeus, and all that before and in 2000 years time without a doubt people will chuckle at the bibles silly stories just like we do with all the religions before the modern ones, and they will worhsip the purple 50 ft spider monkey with lighting eyes, then a few thousand years later people will forget that and be worshipping something and so on ad infintum, seriously dont buy into , live peacefuly and love but do it because you want to not because someone tells you to.

Originally posted by seanyboy
Its not communism thats going to save us..... The only way to have a good country to live in is if its based on christian values with Jesus as the head of state. There's no country on this planet that you can live in and worship God properly as a christian!

I would rather have a republic, to be honest, where you are free to worship as you please, and I am, too.

reply to post by DarkSecret


Yes, I noticed that while traveling the former USSR; wondered how seemingly rational people could actually elect ‘capitalist’ who had just changed into suits out of uniforms. Watching 2 elections and seeing all the early deaths for various causes that befell any who apposed Putin, or the ridiculously staged Chechen attacks on Russian soil, left me speechless; how could people be so anti communist and elect them back into power was beyond me.

Probably for the same reason the enlightened politically correct hug communist dictators while ignoring the pile of bodies the dictator was standing on. Willful ignorance or wishful thinking, I do not know. The sad condition of some for sure.

[edit on 4/4/2009 by SGTChas]

FOR ALL ON THIS LAST PAGE ESPECIALLY SGTCHAS AND YOUR WIFE OK YOU SAY EXPERIENCED COMMUNISM BUT WHAT IT REALLY WAS, WAS STALINISM WHEN STALIN DECIDED TO MAKE HIMSELF THE LEADER HE COMPLETELY UNDERMINED THE WHOLE IDEA OF COMMUNISM. IN TRUE COMMUNISM THERE IS NO LEADER ONLY THE PEOPLE DECIDING WHAT TO IN A VERY ORGANIZED MANNER AND DARK SECRET AS FAR AS HAVING ONLY RATIONED FOOD AND EVERYTHING ELSE IT WONT WORK LIKE THAT SRY THAT MAY BE HOW THEY DID IT BUT WITH TRUE COMMUNISM EVERYTHING IS ALWAYS DONE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PEOPLE BECAUSE ALL OF US AS A WHOLE ARE WHAT MAKE THIS WHOLE INFRASTRUCTURE WORK. AND AS FAR AS THE REST YOU GUYS AND GALS IF YOU WOULDNT MIND LOOKING THROUGH THE LAST FEW PAGES I HAVE SOMEWHAT LAID OUT HOW SOME OF THE SYSTEM SHOULD WORK.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I understand what you are saying... I am only referring the "stateless, classless, and oppression free" aspects of communism. For that matter, it could be argued that some pre-technological cultures are/were anarchistic.

The bottom line is that the cat is out of the bag. We have stuff. People want stuff. That is why communism almost always drifts into socialism. This little story (I'm still not sure how true it is), but it could be. It is entertaining, however:

An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student, but had once failed an entire class. The class (students) insisted that socialism worked since no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism." "All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A." After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who had studied hard were upset while the students who had studied very little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who had studied little studied even less and the ones who had studied hard decided that since they couldn't make an A, they also studied less. The second Test average was a D. No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average grade was an F. The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling, all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for anyone else. To their great surprise all failed. The professor told them that socialism would ultimately fail because the harder people try to succeed the greater their reward (capitalism) but when a government takes all the reward away (socialism) no one will try or succeed.

reply to post by consciencious observer


You are living in a fantasy of amazing scope. By definition, any political system must have a ‘leader’ to initiate it and guide its formation. Russian communism had Lenin, whose murder spree was cut short by illness and death, otherwise his body count would have been as bad as or worse than Stalin’s was. Just ask the Romanov family and the families of most ‘white’ Russians. The communist system its self necessitates a ‘strong man’ to keep it from devouring its governmental apparatuses through petty autocratic territory disputes. Where did you learn history?