Teens Could Spend 25 Years in Prison for Allegedly Torturing Cat, Setting It on Fire

Originally posted by catseyequeen
So what is it exactly you want?

no i dont debate to bring people to my side, i do it for sport and so that hopefully someone would find a flaw in my logic and reasoning so that i can better hone my arguments

besides why is everyone else posting on here, to give their opinion, which is what i am doing

i dont condone anyone to come to my side of the fence, i actually prefer it if people stay on the other side, i like all the space over here

also if i wanted to bring people to my side, my tactics here would be totally wrong, openly confronting and going against someones ideas and opinions only works to reinforce it in those people, no matter how logistical my arguments are in comparison to theirs

reply to post by tankthinker


I hate to say the word fear but I believe I either fear your way of thinking or it profoundly confuses me. Either way it is giving me that vertical wrinkle between my eyes I am so desperately trying to avoid becoming permanent.

Now...I never said anything about love being disconnected from killing. Haven't you ever seen Old Yeller? Death is not always a bad thing. What is the extreme horror for any creature is loss of control and choice. If there is anything in the world I still fear no matter what soul enlightenment work I do is loss of control and choice. It seems to me to be the core of everything that frightens me (zombies and holocaust.)

Rights are a human invention. That is why I don't like the term animal rights. If they don't know what they are and don't demand them then how can they ever find them important enough to fight for? Animals don't buy into our delusions. (as far as we know) As well, sure we made up those other words but we aren't the only beings on the planet who can feel. I think kindness is a completely different concept than ownership. The Native Americans knew what kindness was but had no concept of ownership. Ownership is not something that exists whether you believe in it or not. It ONLY exists IF you believe in it. Problem there is most people impose their beliefs on you so to them, what you believe doesn't matter. If you don't believe in ownership, be sure not to tell anyone or they will surely take everything you have.

These are still just concepts that in other cultures don't exist. Some are universal and some are not, some a recent developments some are ancient. Either way, the truth is the truth and the truth is concepts are not universal. Concepts are different than universal truths or behaviors.

humans have the ability to do many things but that doesn't mean they have the right.

Originally posted by catseyequeen
reply to post by tankthinker

 

I hate to say the word fear but I believe I either fear your way of thinking or it profoundly confuses me. Either way it is giving me that vertical wrinkle between my eyes I am so desperately trying to avoid becoming permanent.

i have heard many say the same thing, you should see their reactions when i tell them im 18 years old (i look older), they say that a person shouldnt be this cynical at least until they are 50, , well whatever this way of thinking is more interesting that what i was a year ago

Now...I never said anything about love being disconnected from killing. Haven't you ever seen Old Yeller? Death is not always a bad thing. What is the extreme horror for any creature is loss of control and choice. If there is anything in the world I still fear no matter what soul enlightenment work I do is loss of control and choice. It seems to me to be the core of everything that frightens me (zombies and holocaust.)

a loss of control is scary indeed, enough for some groups of people to ensure that there is total control in the world, which i agree with, although it really doesnt matter in the grander scope of things

Rights are a human invention. That is why I don't like the term animal rights. If they don't know what they are and don't demand them then how can they ever find them important enough to fight for? Animals don't buy into our delusions. (as far as we know)

i completely agree

As well, sure we made up those other words but we aren't the only beings on the planet who can feel. I think kindness is a completely different concept than ownership. The Native Americans knew what kindness was but had no concept of ownership. Ownership is not something that exists whether you believe in it or not. It ONLY exists IF you believe in it. Problem there is most people impose their beliefs on you so to them, what you believe doesn't matter. If you don't believe in ownership, be sure not to tell anyone or they will surely take everything you have.

if there are those who are stronger and smarter in that they can enforce and maintain their beliefs, then they should be able to, have the "right" to

These are still just concepts that in other cultures don't exist. Some are universal and some are not, some a recent developments some are ancient. Either way, the truth is the truth and the truth is concepts are not universal. Concepts are different than universal truths or behaviors.

humans have the ability to do many things but that doesn't mean they have the right.

since they can decide if they have the right without equal opposition, and can maintain that position then they do in fact have the right, whether its a delusion or not is irrelevant

Tankthinker,

you strike me as a typical left-brain thinker. What I am interested in is this : exactly what value do you give to concepts such as love and respect ? Do you always place rational thinking above sentiment, or are there situations in which you would actually choose to follow your heart instead of your brain ?

25 Years is absolutely ridiculous for this, people get less time for manslaughter and homicide. Yes, a cat is a living being, but you cannot compare a cat to a human in any stretch of imagination. The same question has arisen numerous times in this post, "How could you set a living being on fire?" I'm surprised I haven't seen it asked how this is different than steaming a crab or that fresh lobster you had at Benihana for your sister's birthday?

reply to post by Arkahn

Then you haven't read the thread. It wasn't killed to be eaten for the first part, the second would be that steaming and or boiling shellfish takes about 15 minutes tops from the recipes i've read.
the cat however...

Hynes said they then set the animal on fire, causing deep wounds and fourth-degree burns. The blaze also damaged the building, which has other units that are occupied. The cat was found outside, unable to move and crying but still alive, the district attorney said. It was euthanized at a local animal hospital.

I wish it stated how long they believe it took, or at least a floor number on the apartment to give an estimate of how long it took for the cat to run around to find the door, run outside, down any stairs and then out to the street where it lay until it was found and taken in to a veterinary hospital. Even an address of the apartment could give us an idea of the closest pet hospital.


The shellfish don't die seconds before you drain the pot; they die very quickly.


[edit on 3/23/2009 by eNumbra]

future serial killers


[edit on 23-3-2009 by IBelieveInMe]

Seriously Sick Teens

The pair face up to 25 years in prison if convicted and Cooper has allegedly broken into the same building before: He and a different cohort were recently "charged with breaking into an apartment and beating the tenant with a cane, while the victim lay in bed, asleep, and then demanding money."

Seriously sick. If it were in my home I would imagine they would be wearing a few bullets through their skull if I were to come home. It wasn't just the burning of the cat. They broke into an apartment and set a cat on fire which caused fire damage to the building as well. As above they also had broken into the same apartments before and attacked people.


This is probably a combined possible sentence for cruelty to animals, breaking and entering as well as arson.

It is pretty disgusting to even conceive of someone committing such an act. People like this is a real disgrace to humanity. They without doubt deserve the 25 years if not more. How would they like it if they were set on fire and burned to death?

I hope when they go to jail they get powned by the guy with the biggest piece of manhood anybody has ever seen. I don't believe in god, but there are times like this I wish god existed. A friend of mine said "there is a special place in hell for people who torture and abuse animals." I really hope she is right. It is the duty of the strong to protect the weak and animals fall into the weak category.

Originally posted by toochaos4u
Seriously Sick Teens

The pair face up to 25 years in prison if convicted and Cooper has allegedly broken into the same building before: He and a different cohort were recently "charged with breaking into an apartment and beating the tenant with a cane, while the victim lay in bed, asleep, and then demanding money."

Seriously sick. If it were in my home I would imagine they would be wearing a few bullets through their skull if I were to come home. It wasn't just the burning of the cat. They broke into an apartment and set a cat on fire which caused fire damage to the building as well. As above they also had broken into the same apartments before and attacked people.


This is probably a combined possible sentence for cruelty to animals, breaking and entering as well as arson.

as much as I agree with you I believe to torture them would be much better in this particular case.

Originally posted by Dark Jester
At first it starts with a cat and then it leads to a human being.

Of course. They become addicted to the powerful negative energy that is produced by doing this to the cat and soon find a human produces more.

These teens should definately be isolated from the community until their desire for this energy ends, and a general sense of compassion is achieved.

Originally posted by Dark Jester

foxnews.com... teenagers could spend 25 years in prison for allegedly torturing and killing a cat they set on fire when they broke into an apartment in New York City.


Angelo Monderoy, 18, and Matthew Cooper, 17, allegedly broke into a vacant apartment in Brooklyn, N.Y., on or around Oct. 7, 2008. Kings County District Attorney Charles J. Hynes said the pair held the cat down as they poured charcoal lighter fluid on it.

I bet they won't be laughing when they get owned in lock up

 

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[edit on Sun Mar 22 2009 by Jbird]

It's probably a good thing. Serial killer anyone? LOL

Originally posted by tankthinker

Originally posted by spitefulgod
Hey cool because that's what the nazis said remember

It's a Jew

It's a Jew

how is this in any way related to the holocaust

why is it that anything slightly or appearing to be anti-Jewish or having to do with innocent creatures being killed automatically inspires this.

The total lack of sympathy is exactly the same he puts the same value on a cats life as the SS did on a Jews life which is "of little or no value". It has nothing to do with the holocaust or Jews but shows the same sentiment towards another living creature.

Originally posted by sliceNodice
Have you all lost your minds?? It is an animal for christs sake!!!! So what if it was 'living...' So are snakes, and turtles.... Would you throw someone in prison for that long for breaking and entering plus killing a garden snake? NO, you wouldn't.... Just because they are cute and furry and make good pets all of a sudden they gain that much status??? YOU LUNATICS! You animal rights people make me so angry, you defy logic and ethics!

Humm i wonder what would happen if the female occupant was home at them time, given that they would kill a cat for a joke, what else would be funny.. rape? Murder? These people have mental issues and need locking up, the longer the better.

reply to post by Arkahn


Good point, but I don't eat other animals, unfortunately my dog does so I still must live with that guilt, watch this and see the point of the matter is that no living animal whether it be human or not deserves to suffer

Google Video Link

Video link on spitefulgod.net

edit: Never mind

[edit on 24-3-2009 by dodgygeeza]

I'm a former animal owner and once exited my house to where my dog was sat on my lawn to find a local teen about to kick him. Understandably I was furious and marched the teen back to his parents and demanded he was punished...

I totally understand the fury of pet owners when something like this happens as a pet does become a member of the family.

That said - from societies point of view - these are just kids, and 25 years is their lives ruined.

We don't take a human life for a cats life, that is absurd.

Something which would be much more sensible: do maybe six months in jail (believe me - enough to teach most teens a lesson) - then make them do 1 or 2 years voluntary work in their spare time working at a vet surgery or animal shelter.

I think that would do far much more good than throwing 2 more lives away into the prison system.


If a US court sentences 2 kids to 25 years in jail for killing a cat - your nation is in serious trouble... maybe you should start appointing people qualified to be judges rather than electing the local redneck chieftain.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
Humm i wonder what would happen if the female occupant was home at them time, given that they would kill a cat for a joke, what else would be funny.. rape? Murder? These people have mental issues and need locking up, the longer the better.

Yeah because we now try people for crimes they 'could have' committed. Think you've been watching too much minority report...

reply to post by Dutty_Rag


Wow, you're so liberal and stand up for human "rights", I hope that works out for you. people kill animals all the time, but setting it on fire is sick, they are sick. The judge made a stand hopefully others will follow, then maybe people will stop thinking it's OK and FUN. Maybe you're right maybe with a good telling of they would have become fine upstanding citizens.