Teens Could Spend 25 Years in Prison for Allegedly Torturing Cat, Setting It on Fire

I am a Criminal Defense Attorney here in New York City, and a former Prosecutor in the Kings County (Brooklyn) District Attorney's Office.

The reason that these depraved young men are facing up to 25 years in prison is not for torturing the cat, but for setting a fire in a residential building. That charge is Arson in the 2nd Degree which carries a potential sentence from a minimum of 5 years up to 25 years as a max.

The crime of animal cruelty in this case is either a class A misdemeanor with a potential penalty of up to one year or a class E felony with a potential sentence of up to 4 years.

Note: I am not offering legal advice to anyone with respect to this post.

reply to post by finemanm


Coll input, although typical of the law to hold destruction of property above that of destruction of life.

reply to post by Dark Jester
The natural response of a number of people is that it was only cat. But the point really is that this is an animal, exploited for whatever by humans that have no scruples, morals or respect for another species on this planet. As such a term of 25 years "banged up" seems a rather small price to pay for the pain and terror they inflicted on this fellow animal. It's really just taking advantage of a creature that has no real way of fighting back (bullying) and downright evil. They were responsible for their actions so they should suffer the consequences - it might be child or elderly person next time round!

reply to post by Dark Jester
Just one further point - I believe Al Capone got his long sentence for tax evasion and not murder. The use of criminal damage might just be the way to extend the punishment.

Wow, this string was pretty insightful into the character of many persons here. In this day and age, in America, I find it absolutely amazing that anyone would write such a shameful statement like 'its only a cat'. Indeed. Where has your ancestor's evolution been for the last 10 thousand years?

Whether one believes 25 years is too much or too little, the ONLY humane reaction should be 'that's disgusting, those reprobates should be sent away for a long time'. That's it - nothing else passes the NORMAL test.

Really, some of you posters need to get out or your secluded cabins, get in your truck, drive into town and stop at a local diner (not just over your to your local biker bar) and make a public statement to the peope around that you believe that serious punishment for someone who tortures animals is absurd. [Be sure to put it in your own words though, as I am sure you will not doubt put it exactly right]. Afterwards, watch the reaction of the people around you, notice how they have the look of revulsion on thier faces. That's called a societal norm. Because in most CIVILIZED societies in the world, torture of animals is repulsive - even among the heartiest meat eaters.

So these two hoodlums might get 25 years? I say good, its long past time that we stop giving special breaks to evil souls mascarading as human juvinilles. There is a huge difference between someone that inflicts intentional and destructive physical harm on an innocent person/animal, and most other crimes. And the possibility of reforming those that cross that line, are practically nil.

Rapists and molesters get less.

Not a one-liner.

I hope all of them are locked away for the full 25 years. The kind of kids that would do that have no souls and should be locked away from others anyway. I'm glad our society is sending out a strong message to anyone who thinks they can get away with doing this to an innocent animal.

That's sick but 25 years to far too much. Are they taking into consideration what these people are going to do when they get out of prison? They are going to be 43, and 42. We need some new form of punishment. Not only are we going to be supporting these two for 25 years but I have a feeling that they will need help when they get out.

Let us not forget that prison is a from of corrective rehabilitation. I think we have gotten way to caught up in the punishment side of things. The goal is to get these people in the mindset that they need to be productive members of society. I'm not so sure that locking them away for 25 years is going to do the trick. They will be released at 40 where they will find it's hard to get a job and then who knows what they will do to survive.

One time I choked a bird to death because i thought it tried to attack my sister. Now I feel guilty...

But then again, they are just "animals."



I hate environmental ethics.

A friend had a relative who worked as a nurse at an abortion clinic. One time after a saline injection (which is basically like being set on fire to a vulnerable, in-womb baby) of a later term abortion failed to kill the baby, the baby was born alive. The doctor ordered my friend's relative to flush the baby down the toilet...do you think that doctor got arrested for cruelty and torture, of a helpless human being, and then sentenced by a jury to 25 years in prison? Well, of course not. From what I recall, absolutely nothing happened.

And think this doesn't happen often? Check this out:

Florida clinic throws away live baby

I'm not trying to diminish animal cruelty (I'm a long-time vegetarian who is very upset by the terribly cruelty to livestock - watch Earthlings on youtube if you need some evidence), but I think we need to have balanced justice, even if the sentence for these teenagers was mostly due to arson (as mentioned above...but arsonists typically get 25 yrs.?)

reply to post by Dark Jester
Anyone that could do such a thing to any living creature is deeply disturbed and needs some kind of psychological help as well as maybe being institutionalized (not prison).

Deeply disturbing.

It's cute now in our society to "be bad" "tough" "urban".

Many of the movies out show so much violence.

Take it one step further, dog fights, cock fights, spearing a bull in the Bull Fighting arena in Spain with thirty spears until the poor thing is mad with pain............some people just have not gotten beyond being primative savages.

Read: Slaughterhouse by Gail A. Eisnitz - It's hidden but the poor cows, horses, sheep and pigs millions are slaughtered in very cruel ways each and every day. No not painlessly. But we don't want to see how our meat is processed. We don't even have the guts to call it cow or pig, we call it hamburger or pork.

I was raised on a dairy farm and cows (the females) are affectionate, they moo and get all excited when they see you coming and want you to pet and scratch them just like a dog.

Read: Dominion by Matthew Scully. Humanity most of us are guilty of thinking we and we alone have the right to dominate every living creature on the face of this planet.

These boys just went to an extreme.

All creatures ALL deserve respect and to be treated kindly.



[edit on 24-3-2009 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by Astarfaraway


This is not a pro-life/pro-choice issue. You want to debate that, start another thread.

As for getting 25 years, as I stated above, if they are convicted of the most serious crime that they are charged with, they face a sentencing range of 5 years as a minimum (meaning a judge cannot be any more lenient that 5 years) or 25 years as a maximum (the Judge can sentence them to any determinate term of incarceration between 5 and 25 years).

The most serious crime that they are charged with is Arson in the 2nd Degree. This crime is defined as starting a fire in a location where it is reasonable to believe that there are other people present.

So, if they get sentenced to any term of incarceration based on the top count, it relates to starting a fire in an occupied residential building, not for harming the cat.

However, if they get a sentence on the high end, I would suspect that it has to do with the heinous nature of the crime in relation to the helpless animal. If I were the judge, the fact that they could cause such needless harm to an innocent animal would certainly make me believe that a harsh sentence would be appropriate.

So please people, keep your heads. The potential 25 year punishment has to do with the fact that they started a fire in a building where people live that could have caused the loss of HUMAN life not feline life.

edit: people don't know how to debate properly any more on this bloody site. You assume far too much.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by dodgygeeza]

reply to post by Sashromi
I agree, anyone that say's "It's only a cat" has not evolved very far beyond a primitive savage.

Star for you, good post.

Some humans just don't get it, it's beyond them that animals deserve respect and to be treated kindly.

If there is such a thing as karma I feel sorry for those boys.

finemanm, I didn't realize you were a moderator here. Ok, I'll stay off the topic of torturing and killing babies, since this is just about the topic of torturing and killing animals...and arson.
But thanks for the clarification on the arson sentencing parameters for these two young men, who hopefully received the justice they deserve and did not instead become scapegoats for the current politically correct thinking process.

I was just trying to point out the inconsistencies and imbalances in our justice system...and what we consider as legal and proper and what we consider as cruel and a crime. Unborn baby killing is ok nowadays. But pet cruelty is not. Farm animal cruelty is ok too...generally. Anyone who eats animal food of any kind should think twice before taking another mouthful. I urge animal food eaters to watch Earthlings , as I mentioned in my first post above.
It's in 11 parts on youtube and is not for the faint of heart. Did you know pigs are routinely boiled alive?

[edit on 24-3-2009 by Astarfaraway]

[edit on 24-3-2009 by Astarfaraway]

Jail sentence should turn into forced labor.

Failure to comply multiple times results in death penalty.

The labor will not be IMPOSSIBLE and will not kill the inmates, but definitely work and sweat them.

That way, they pay for their own time in jail and also contribute to society as a whole. While working, they would still get paid maybe a dollar an hour towards their own savings - tax free!

But the sentencing for certain crimes would be reduced (drugs)...but we should also have an intolerance towards violence.

reply to post by Astarfaraway


I'm not going to debate the legality or morality of abortion with you on this thread. You don't even know where I stand on that issue. The point is that this thread is not about abortion, its about the criminality and potential punishment for animal cruelty.

To all posters who think that aminal cruelty is punished more severely than crimes against people PLEASE READ BELOW!!!!

I notice a lot of people making comments that people get less severe punishments for crimes against people than for a case of animal cruelty, and that is simply untrue!

The most serious charge related to the animal cruelty is under the New York Agriculture and Markets Law section 353-a. Aggravated cruelty to animals:

It states:

1. A person is guilty of aggravated cruelty to animals when, with no justifiable purpose, he or she intentionally kills or intentionally causes serious physical injury to a companion animal with aggravated cruelty. For purposes of this section, “aggravated cruelty” shall mean conduct which: (i) is intended to cause extreme physical pain; or (ii) is done or carried out in an especially depraved or sadistic manner.

2. Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to prohibit or interfere in any way with anyone lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping, or fishing, as provided in article eleven of the environmental conservation law, the dispatch of rabid or diseased animals, as provided in article twenty-one of the public health law, or the dispatch of animals posing a threat to human safety or other animals, where such action is otherwise legally authorized, or any properly conducted scientific tests, experiments, or investigations involving the use of living animals, performed or conducted in laboratories or institutions approved for such purposes by the commissioner of health pursuant to section three hundred fifty-three of this article.

3. Aggravated cruelty to animals is a felony. A defendant convicted of this offense shall be sentenced pursuant to paragraph (b) of subdivision one of section 55.10 of the penal law provided, however, that any term of imprisonment imposed for violation of this section shall be a definite sentence, which may not exceed two years.

Please note that the most severe sentence that these men can receive for harming the animal is 2 years under this statute. If they committed this depraved act in a place that would not have violated the Arson statute, the most amount of time they could get is two years.

The fact that they committed Arson in the 2nd Degree (an extremely serious crime under New York Law) is why they face a potential 25 year sentence.

Everytime i go to messageboards and reads peoples opinions i am overcome with depression.

All you selfrighteous, never-hurt-a-fly-in-my-life, disconnected-from-reality moral high horse riders only show the world just how ugly you are yourselves on the insides, when you think 2 wrongs somehow make a right.

Would you lock up your own son for 25 years had he done something as stupid as this ? You really think it's okay to ruin a persons life over something he did while beeing young and stupid, and probably high on drugs ?

All you karma knights who never needs forgiveness, need to step out in the bush and smell reality.

If that cat was the size of a lion it would be killing those boys just to have some fun, just as they did. It's what animals do, and frankly part of growing up is learning to control the animal within. Something noone gets through without friction.

So to all you who think punishment is somekinda solution to any problem, i hope you're all reincarnated as each and every bug you've ever stepped on so you can taste your own twisted morals.

Thanks.

reply to post by Solomons



If someone set you on fire would 25 years be a ludicrous amount of time to spend in jail ?

Originally posted by chise61
reply to post by Solomons

 

If someone set you on fire would 25 years be a ludicrous amount of time to spend in jail ?

Yeah now go comparing the act of killing an animal with the act of killing a fellow human beeing. Soon you'll need to punish all the cats too for killing all them mice. To the torture chamber with all the cats, in the name of feeling morally superior.

Hey wait ? Why not just blow up this whole silly planet, we're all BAD BAD humans and need to punish ourselves for actually having to feed on other lifeforms to survive ourselves. BAD BAD HUMAN! BAD BAD WORLD. LOCK IT ALL UP.

[edit on 24-3-2009 by JustAThought]