Major General says president's eligibility needs proof

Originally posted by Unit541
The whole thing could have been squashed, for real and in everyone's eyes, months ago.

No, it would not have. And you know it. There will never be proof enough, there will never be "irrefutable" proof in the eyes of those who are driving this. They will say the Long-Form birth certificate is a forgery or they will move the goal-posts, say some obscure Hawaiian law lets foreigners get a birth-certificate stating they were born in Hawaii, or so forth.

Originally posted by Unit541
What has been provided, simply doesn't constitute irrefutable proof to some.

And nothing ever will. You know it and I know it.

Originally posted by Unit541
Silly saviorcomplex, the very concept of an official birth certificate did not exist at the drafting of the Constitution.

And that means what?

In the 200 years since (and 70 odd years of birth-certificates being common) no one has seen fit to amend that part of the Constitution and proscribe what one needs to prove they are a natural born citizen.

Originally posted by Unit541
The sign at the bar doesn't say a drivers license is required to prove your age either. It just says you need proof of age. Drivers licenses are simply the most convenient way for most to do so.

Originally posted by Unit541
It appears, based on your commentary, that Obama himself getting on TV and saying "I am a natural born citizen" constitutes proof enough for you. Someone, however, chose to let it fester. This Your avatar says "Searching for Truth". Your position on this indicates "Accepting truth dictated to me".

And you come to this conclusion how? Because I have enough sense to look at the preponderance of evidence (official statements, records, and the fact in two years the dirtiest players in the game didn't bring this up) and draw a conclusion that means I only accept the truth as dictated to me?

Or is it because I do not have the same opinion about something that you do. thus I am brainwashed or unthinking? Silly Unit541, you just don't know how moronic that is. In fact, you are so used to being told what to think you don't even recognize it when it is happening. You refuse to look at the preponderance of evidence because people like Taitz tell you not to. And when (if ever) the long-form birth-certificate is released, you won't accept it, because Taitz will tell you not to.

Originally posted by dankai

In an accompanying letter, Childers said, "What I really want is the truth; is Obama a natural born citizen of the United States. If not a natural born citizen, America has been defrauded and then we would be stuck with Joe Biden whose only redeeming attribute is that he is probably not a communist."

He said he is an engineer after serving for 38 years in Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, Operation Desert Storm and other locations.

Let's see . . . The Vietnam War lasted about 10 years, the Persian Gulf War of 1991 was over within five weeks. What did he fight over those long 38 years?



Some kind of drug addiction, I guess.

reply to post by speaknoevil07

*star'd* I think these are the subtleties I was saying should be carefully observed and noticed. Very good point man.

Originally posted by speaknoevil07
What they are showing is a certificate of Live Birth, not a Birth Certificate.The difference is that one shows a "live birth" occurred and it states that this person was born. The Birth Certificate says where he was born. See his certificate of "live" birth says he was born and the state of Hawaii recognizes this but it does not say in Hawaii.

What are you talking about?

Obama presented a Certification of Live Birth, known as a short form. It states where he was born, and the date.

CITY, TOWN OR LOCATION OF BIRTH
HONOLULU

ISLAND OF BIRTH
OAHU

COUNTY OF BIRTH
HONOLULU

Most don't take the time to research it.

I'd say...

One other explaination is that Obama was actually born in the U.S. and it is custom in Africa to claim the fathers birth location. Obama's father was born in africa and what was placed on his was his fathers birth right.

What the...?! The only thing regarding African or Africa in Obama's certificate is his father's race.

And that has an explanation:

why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." source

Like Jesus in the bible...

I stopped reading here.

Originally posted by j2000
A retired General holds all kinds of power. The kind of power that can bring 10's of thousands to the point, active or not.

So what? What does that have to do with a court-case? His rank gives him no special insight in to the truth of this matter. His rank means nothing outside of publicity.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by SaviorComplex]

here it is!! READ WHERE HE WAS BORN!!!

www.politifact.com...

"city, town, or location of birth"....honolulu

converge has an even better picture of it above!!!!

[edit on 27-2-2009 by jimmyx]

[edit on 27-2-2009 by jimmyx]

Originally posted by stander


Let's see . . . The Vietnam War lasted about 10 years, the Persian Gulf War of 1991 was over within five weeks. What did he fight over those long 38 years?

Some kind of drug addiction, I guess.

Wow really? I love how since he didn't server 30 years of continuous fighting all his service is discredited. You are clearly intent on smearing. The man served 30 years in the armed forces...how many have you served? He fought when he was asked to and served humbly when he wasn't fighting. It is not a life style everyone could handle and it certainly isn't easy being a career soldier. Probably shouldn't go around making snide comments about someone you know little about or his/her credibility in fields you dont even qualify as relevant to perceive in any fashion parallel to what the gentleman in question might, anyways who are you to scrutinize?

Being an outsider and reading about all the bickering transpiring between the pro and anti Obama individuals here makes me wonder how in the hell a candidate for a government office could not have been cross checked and double checked about his eligibility. Did this Obama dude just pop out of nowhere and become an elected official just like that whilst everyone else (especially his rivals) was asleep? All this talk about eligibility blah blah blah after he is already elected is non-constructive and will just dig a deeper hole for all you americans! Dig yourselves out of the hole you are in and think collectively! You have other fish to fry like the CEO's that have all your money stashed away in their swiss banks.

Give the newly elected officials a chance to do their jobs and move on already!

This thread shouldn't exist.

There shouldn't be any question and those that do question the authenticity should be satisfied so there can be no question.

When people questioned his bumbling the oath of office they called him on it and he redid the oath (in privacy and no Lincoln Bible of course but that's another matter altogether.)

Honest people in our society have always been happy to prove that they have nothing to hide. In the same vein, Obama should have no problem providing that requested information. In fact it would be great to see him do a news conference where everyone can see it first hand.

A small ceremony where he restates his oath with full public view of him retaking his oath ... with his classic smile ... "Ooops sorry great american public I messed up the 1st time, forgive me, here's the real deal because I want you to know that I can be trusted."

Also this has nothing to do with color or cards it's just human nature; least in my book. I could care less he's got a great tan, so does Mit Romney. Under my tinfoil hat I'm whiter than a sheep and proud of it.

reply to post by speaknoevil07


I don't know if you have been following this in detail, but the problem is that the document they are providing as proof is not a Birth Certificate, it is a Certificate of live birth, which is two different things. What is being asked for is the document "Birth Certificate" which says 1) the hospital he was born in. 2) the doctor who delivered him. The certificate of birth they have shown does not provide that information.

Then there is another question of forgery with his selective service registration! either he never registered for the draft or the document is a forgery, it cannot be both. look it up and you will see why! This is why things need to be looked into further.

Oh! I also learned recently that his mothers and fathers divorce records indicate he was born in Kenya as well! All of this backed up by his grandmother's verbal statement that he was born in Kenya. But someone made sure she would not open her mouth again!

[edit on 27-2-2009 by xyankee]

Originally posted by Unit541
I'm not a racist or a sore loser.

No, you're that other very special breed. But we'll go in to that in a bit...

Originally posted by Unit541
Silly saviorcomplex, the very concept of an official birth certificate did not exist at the drafting of the Constitution.

And that means what?

In the 200 years since the writing of the Constitution, no one has seen fit to amend it to proscribe how one proves they are a natural-born citizen.

Those who are driving this controversy behave as if the long-form birth-certificate is the only way to Constitutionally prove you are a natural-born citizen. That is not the case.

Originally posted by Unit541
Plenty of "natural born citizens" were being born in timber shacks in the stall between the mules and the pigs, delivered by a guy wearing a coonskin cap.

According to those driving this faux controversy, those people could not prove they were natural-born citizens and could not have served as President. In fact, Obama has provided more proof than most of our Presidents.

Originally posted by Unit541
What has been provided, simply doesn't constitute irrefutable proof to some.

And nothing ever will. And you know it is not true this could have been settled months ago. It will never be settled; those driving this will never believe any evidence.

Originally posted by Unit541
It appears, based on your commentary, that Obama himself getting on TV and saying "I am a natural born citizen" constitutes proof enough for you. Someone, however, chose to let it fester. This Your avatar says "Searching for Truth". Your position on this indicates "Accepting truth dictated to me".

How do you come to this conclusion that I am somehow brainwashed and unthinking?

Is it because I have looked at the preponderance of evidence (documents, official testimony, and the fact that the dirtiest players in the game didn't run with this, for starters...) and came to a conclusion?

Or is it just because I have a different opinion as you?

See, Unit541 "Accepting truth dictated to me" could be describing you. Remember that "special breed" I mentioned earlier? This is the kind of person you can mention "conspiracy" to and any need for actual thought goes out the window. No amount of evidence will suffice, the preponderance of evidence doesn't matter, and there is no need for thinking when you have someone like Taitz telling you what to think. And when (if ever) the long-form certificate is released, you won't accept it because Taitz will tell you not to, you'll happily parrot each and every one of her excuses.

Originally posted by xyankee
What is being asked for is the document "Birth Certificate" which says 1) the hospital he was born in. 2) the doctor who delivered him. The certificate of birth they have shown does not provide that information.

Why is that needed? What law states that is what proves someone is a natural born citizen? That is not in any copy of the Constitution I have.

Originally posted by xyankee
I don't know if you have been following this in detail, but the problem is that the document they are providing as proof is not a Birth Certificate, it is a Certificate of live birth, which is two different things.

The certificate Obama presented is an equally valid proof of citizenship, according to the State Department:

1. PROOF OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP

A birth certificate must include your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records. source

Obama's certificate includes all of the above.

What is being asked for is the document "Birth Certificate"

Who's asking, and what legal authority do these people have to see his birth certificate?

well if we are required to show zeeeee papazzz i think he should show his to satisfy everyone and put the matter to rest. But what about the people that say he was born in Kenya. What about all that stuff? And the fact that his grandmother, who has passed on, stated that he was born in Kenya.
Something smells here. I think Hilary has the goods on him and that is why she holds the position she does. More of the same # just a different day. It goes on and on and on and on. I wouldn't follow any orders until I knew that the man holding office was truly entitiled to do such.
What are people waiting for for crying out loud. Oh and oh ya what about the aunt that isn't entitled to be here.
They are all thugs and criminals of the highest order up there on the HILL. It needs a good fumigation if you ask me. Get rid of the VERMON.
The more you sit around and dawdle the more these thieves get away with murder. You get the government you deserve.

reply to post by speaknoevil07

What they are showing is a certificate of Live Birth, not a Birth Certificate.The difference is that one shows a "live birth" occurred and it states that this person was born. The Birth Certificate says where he was born.

This is misinformation that is being spread around.

There is no difference between the two in any legal sense - COLB is a valid for all legal purposes, it just doesn't have to be filed by a doctor at a hospital. In other words, the long form is considered a private medical record, and the State of Hawaii is not allowed by law to release it.

Even if there was no long form on file, the COLB is still a valid birth certificate.

This ignores the fact that the whole thing is conceptually silly.

If Obama's birth location was Kenya, Indonesia, or Mars, as child of a US citizen he would still have valid US citizenship as soon as he got here, so his mother would have no reason to fake a birth certificate, let alone print a fake birth announcement in a Honolulu newspaper.

The only conceivable reason she would have to do so would be if he was expected to run for President before he was even born and that makes absolutely no sense.

That, or somebody has a time machine they're not telling us about


I'm all for investigating extreme possibilities, but this has been looked at for months, and there is nothing there.

All this really reflects is the desperate wishes of certain political factions to make an end run around the election, the Constitution, and effectively democracy itself.

reply to post by SaviorComplex


Because it is LEGAL PROOF He says he has this document "vault copy" so why not satisfy the question for the sake of "security".

.... Because He can't is the only reason I can think of for not doing it.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by xyankee]

Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx
reply to post by converge

 

Perhaps your right but think about it in this way, if it comes from a civilian, its his opinion and little about it matters other then that it is that persons belief. What this general is stating is that IF recalled, he wont take orders handed down from Obama for the cited reasons.
Now that may not mean much to you but consider this
If his disposition is felt by many upper level officers and consequently then through the men under them in their C.O.C. then you have yourself quite a situation dont you?

I doubt that any active duty [and retired] officers would refuse a legitmate order from an elected President or "the officers appointed over them" as in the oath they took, other than a few on the fringe. This retired general has nothing to lose and he is all mouth. I earlier suggested that we see how committed he was with his tail on the line by recalling him to active duty [officers can be recalled at any time] and giving him some orders to refuse.
Those officers that have doubts are welcome to retire and become erstwhile pundits but any service member that refuses a legal order will be facing a court martial.

reply to post by converge


Who's asking, and what legal authority do these people have to see his birth certificate?

You just don't get it do you? First of all whether or not there is legal authority wouldn't you want people to trust you? If it would resolve this problem it is just something he should oblige. But he can't make that simple call to release it.

Did you know that the personnel in vital statistics were told that no one under any circumstances is aloud to see it. That is strange, because if it was yours or mine it is public knowledge and anyone can request to see that information.

Then Top it all off with all the lies of the previous administration, the banks, the war, 911, don't you think the people have the right to be sure?

Originally posted by xyankee
Did you know that the personnel in vital statistics were told that no one under any circumstances is aloud to see it. That is strange, because if it was yours or mine it is public knowledge and anyone can request to see that information.

Please substantiate this claim. Seriously, you have made a bunch of claims in these last two pages of this thread and I have yet to see a source or basis for any of them.

What is your source or basis for saying that the people in vital statistics were told that no one was allowed to see them?

Vital records are sealed and handled only by authorized personnel. Vital records are not disclosed because it is the law, not because it's Obama's records or because someone ordered them to.

Department of Health officials have spoken about this, for example its director:

There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. source

Here is Hawaii Statute 338-18 (Disclosure of records), the basis for this claim.

Now where is yours?

Then Top it all off with all the lies of the previous administration, the banks, the war, 911, don't you think the people have the right to be sure?

I understand and share your concern, that's why I looked at the evidence and even the legal arguments, and that's also why I am convinced Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by converge]

reply to post by SaviorComplex


You say that Obama "is" a native born citizen, but the whole argument maybe moot, anyone with enough money can get completely authentic looking documents that prove just that. What do people that know him or have known him have to say? Are there any realtives or friends of the family where he maybe claimed to come from that know otherwise? A good journalist asks not where the paper documents are located but whom are and might be in a position to know from their own experience and conversations with Obama. The idea that it doesn't matter for a president that commands a territorial army seems a bit suspicious to me, it should matter where but then again lines on maps are made up by us anyways and the world wasn't made with predefined borders upon its surface, so yeah I would prefer to look at his thinking and his socially constructed policies that are a direct threat to some freedoms if not all of them.