Major General says president's eligibility needs proof

Originally posted by Jenna
No, that's what you did by responding to my post and saying I claimed he wasn't born in Hawaii. In doing so, you showed quite clearly that you didn't actually read my post. Skimmed it maybe, actually read it? Not a chance.

I was talking about the people in general who claim he wasn't born in the US.

You assumed I wanted those people to be silenced, and I told you what I actually wanted.

You personally don't hold that view? Fine, what's the problem then? Why are we discussing this?

reply to post by converge

I wonder if the Supreme Court accepted one of those lawsuits and ruled Obama qualified to be President, if the people who are contesting his qualifications still thought of the Court has independent...

I didn't invent the system. Heck I don't even pay attention to the system. I know too many darn people responsible for the system and that they don't pay attention to it either.

Other people do though pay attention to the system. The system grants them absolution for adhering to it and provides them a perceived legitimate reason to do so.

No President, Democrat or Republican, Black or White has ever had and never will have complete universal appeal. Politics by definition is the fine art of forging a consensus amongst divergent personalities.

What the Independent Judiciary accomplishes in weighing in on the matter is that veneer of legitamacy. That greatly sought after stamp of approval and absolution in sharing their belief, good, bad, ugly, pretty, right or wrong.

Personally I enjoy chaos. It creates so many fun, fun opportunities.

The reality is though if you start negating the system, bypassing the checks and balances, crying that they shouldn't apply because it's just not fair or someone might get their feelings hurt, then all you are going to have is chaos.

In my humble oppinion the courts are afraid to touch this matter. They fear the potential for chaos it might cause if they found reason to rule unfavorably against a currently extremely popular and first of his kind personality that has a ground swell of popular support based as much on personal appeal and affiliation identity as mere talent.

It will be the death of our system if they don't rule on it.

Honestly if I supported him I would be just as much in favor of getting that stamp of legitimacy as I would be in denying it to him if I didn't support him.

I am indifferent though. It makes no difference to me.

In business there is something called the WOW effect. It is when you exceed customers expectations. You have gone the extra mile, you delivered the best quality and service and then some.

President Obama has an opportunity to WOW everyone by stepping up to the plate and demonstrating that he won't leave any stone unturned in making each and every case for his policies and confidence in him.

He's chosen to fight that with legal teams and thin arguments.

He's chosen to hide behind the indignation of others and some ascertion that a threshold has been met.

I live in Miami. I live in Miami because it's the second most corrupt city in the United States. H-o-n-o-l-u-l-u takes the top prize. I know it intimately and have spent quite a bit of time there. Too bad it's in the center of an empty ocean!

The only people Obama is wowing right now is people who want to be wowed by him.

The Govenor of Hawaii and Factcheck.org are not substitutes for an independent judiciary.

Personally I would be proud to have the Supreme Court say definatively this man is legitimately this Nation's President in every legal sense.

Why he wouldn't want to avail himself of that opportunity and give those people with doubts in him but not doubting the ligitamcy of an independent judiciary a clear and recognizable legally binding resolution is beyond me.

I think its rather well...substandard effort.

All the more power to him if he can get by going this route. I don't see it working real well for him so far though.

reply to post by converge


Here you go. If you read it instead of skimming it, it is abundantly clear why I am discussing this.

Lessons from History

Prior to World War I and its billionth partition Poland was a Monarchy.

For several hundred years the nobles of Poland agreed on one thing. That was that they could not agree on one thing. They loved the fact that they were noble, rich and titled though, but hated the fact that when a sovereign line came to an end they had to spend their money and sometimes their lives for the thankless task of being the sovereign monarch. So they agreed to always hire a King from another country. German, Russian, Austrian, Hungarian, English, French, it didn’t matter to them, just that they were royal in their native country and in line of succession to be it’s monarch behind some red headed step child or another.

They would pay that royal to leave his or her native land and become their King or Queen so they could get on with the real important work of being a noble, exploiting the unwashed masses and partying until the sun came up.

This system pretty much worked for them for several hundred years. The nobles no longer had to squander wealth or risk life and limb to ensure a monarchy. If the monarch they hired proved not to their over all liking they would just fire him and find another…

Sometimes, because sometimes they realized he wasn’t to their liking when some Prussian, or Hungarian or Russian army was at their border exploiting the unwashed masses in their stead and disrupting the party schedule.

In part it was why Poland was partitioned 1,657,892,143 and one half times before Stalin finally gave them some real stability! Wow, talk about desperate for stability!

There are too lessons to be learned from Poland.

The first is the chaos that comes when a people can’t agree on the legitimacy of a ruler.

It’s vital for stability that a leader do everything in their power to assert their legitimacy in LEGITIMATE WAYS.

The second important lesson is no, it really doesn’t pay to let the guy from somewhere else take care of something that he sees more opportunity for himself in than responsibility too.

I am a total flake and even I think President Obama is dropping the ball by not utilizing the Legal System and the Independent Judiciary to firmly and resolutely define his legitimacy.

I sure hope any future partition brought on by all this nonsense does not interrupt one of my parties!

It is truly unbelievable to sometimes hear the and read the words of people who think they are patriots. If anyone on earth had any more of the right to see Obama's real papers, it would be the soldiers who keep him free. The more I hear about the how real the papers are that he presented, the more I hear the short form is legal enough, or he risks the chance of identity theft if he releases the original that is locked in a vault in Hawaii the more I know in my gut he is lying and has defrauded this country. The Clintons have something on him and that is why HC is where she is at right now. Bill is a powerful man in the after potus stage, perhaps even more powerful than when he was potus. Something is not right here, he has too many things that just ended up being out of line with the very most important things that would keep him out of office.

Just use this for measure, W. admitted on national t.v. that he was a member of Skull & Bones, he didn't give up any secrets but he acknowledged he was a member. If I were the damn POTUS and anyone questioned my status as a natural born citizen, I would publish the damn thing in the Washington Times. The ORIGINAL HARD VAULT COPY THAT THE DOCTOR SIGNED WHEN I POPPED OUT OF MY MOTHERS WOMB!!!! And then I would put it in the Smith for all to see right at the front door. And that would end all debate about it.

But like I said, if he does not do this soon, it proves he has plenty to hide.


If he lied, it will surface soon. Someone, somewhere will find proof someday.

Eye of Eagle

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE
The Clintons have something on him and that is why HC is where she is at right now.

Yeah where is she now? Not in office. Or was it her grand plan not to get elected and hold whatever they have on Obama to get her nominated to Secretary of State?

Makes perfect sense.

If I were the damn POTUS and anyone questioned my status as a natural born citizen, I would publish the damn thing in the Washington Times. The ORIGINAL HARD VAULT COPY THAT THE DOCTOR SIGNED WHEN I POPPED OUT OF MY MOTHERS WOMB!!!! And then I would put it in the Smith for all to see right at the front door. And that would end all debate about it.

You are looking at it from the point of view that all debate about it is significant, or even relevant.

The people who are disputing his status are a fringe minority, and these people who show up in WND can talk all they want, but what matters is what they will actually do when they are ordered to do something.

reply to post by converge

I care, and many others do as well, and I'm convinced he was born in Hawaii and not because it is my belief but because I looked at the actual evidence that there is to support that notion.

I was married in Hawaii, and have a marraige certificate from the state.

I work with many official documents in my profession. Frankly the document shows clear signs of alterations. It's why a third party who would only post a scan of it was chosen to display it instead of providing it to an independent judiciary with full investigative powers and access to top notch forensic and document experts.

When I got married in Hawaii I saw standing there the woman I was sure I wanted to and would grow old with.

Reality, the woman who would claim 33% of my pretax income until everyone of the five children she insisted on having and insist dislike me until the day they all turn eighteen!

Good news so far the ones who have turned 18 end up kind of liking me.

Bad news, they call at the most inconvenient times!

Never look a gift horse in the mouth!

We all see what we want to see my friend. Neither the medium you have witnessed this in or your expertise in the field qualifies you to render a binding judgement with the resolution or authority an independent judiciary can.

If we weren't so concerned with who is black and white then maybe we can get back to work and figure out the truth? I mean, that is why we are here right? or have I been mistaken?

Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by EYEOFEAGLE
The Clintons have something on him and that is why HC is where she is at right now.

Yeah where is she now? Not in office. Or was it her grand plan not to get elected and hold whatever they have on Obama to get her nominated to Secretary of State?

Makes perfect sense.

If I were the damn POTUS and anyone questioned my status as a natural born citizen, I would publish the damn thing in the Washington Times. The ORIGINAL HARD VAULT COPY THAT THE DOCTOR SIGNED WHEN I POPPED OUT OF MY MOTHERS WOMB!!!! And then I would put it in the Smith for all to see right at the front door. And that would end all debate about it.

You are looking at it from the point of view that all debate about it is significant, or even relevant.

The people who are disputing his status are a fringe minority, and these people who show up in WND can talk all they want, but what matters is what they will actually do when they are ordered to do something.

In 1981 Barry Soetoro traveled to Pakistan, he entered the country through Indonesia. He stayed for three weeks. At the time, Pakistan was under military rule and would have been almost impossible for a U.S. Citizen enter that country for visiting a friend.

"In 1990,According to Illinois state filings, when Obama registered as an attorney in 1991, under the name Barack Obama, he stated he did not have any former names." by Aaron Klein

I also know why the Israelis are rubbing him the wrong way.

This guy is hiding something and it will surface.


Eye of Eagle

Originally posted by converge
Stop with the nonsense. The ranks or professions of the people who believe Obama isn't a natural born citizen mean absolutely nothing of the validity of the claim.

Hey what YOU think of it is NONE of our business Consierge. You don't like it we are calling the Grand Obimbo out to prove once and for all that he meets the standard for POTUS. You don't like it that albeit true, one can be an American Citizen to meet requirements for Senator and Congressmen but for President of the United States the distinction is worded Natural Born Citizen for a reason. Their is a reason the context is given for it like that else they wouldn't have written it in there as it wouold not have been needed but there is a that standard and he has only ducked every request to substantiate his place of birth.

You don't like it that Americans who have not been :"HYPMOTIZED": by the Grand Obamaborg, see right through your actions to stifle any attempt to get to the truth, some of you going as far as insisting the Mods stop this thread. How frightened and scared you all must be if someone finally does see through this sharade he has pulled.

You don't like it that we have a tangible interest in knowing this tax and spend socialist who has spent more in two months than Bush has his entire first term in office, is subverting the criteria set fourth in the Constitution and if you don't like it then I suggest you quit telling us to get over it because that ain't gonna happen so YOU get over it!

You really want us to get over it??

All anyone has to do is get the Grand Obamborg to answer the question that has gone unsatisfied since the day it was first asked.

That question is important to them whether it is just one or a million and one, the FACT is, the COLB is a document ANYONE can have made and is one of the reasons so many here illegally used to use the state of hawaii to have their BC on record there.

You don't HAVE to be born there and all the Hawaian state dept has done is say "yeah we have it on record" but it is what he didn't say that went again unanswered. We KNOW he was born, Obviously he was born. Their is compelling evidence that he was born in Mumbasa Kenya where they don't have such laws to conseal hospital records but Obama had HIS sealed there. His sister gave one location for his Birth his Grandmother another.

It wasn't til the pressure came on we began to see the first COLB and that was a fraud. Then we had another one to see and the date was 2007 as he said he lost his. Funny why didn't the State dept of health show us then that he had one? Finally when they did after a flurry of lawsuits where anyone else would have shown their vaulted BC. McCain was compelled by an investigation to show his and that was insisted upon by Obama. What's good for the goose. In that investigation we discovered McCain may not be qualified as a Natural Born Citizen so a rush to write a legislative pass was written and signed by none other than the same guy who was running against him. Barack "Hollywood" Hussein Obama.

Gee one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to see what is going on there as this would cover his own ass too.

MAYBE!

We still think he is lying and if he is all those 69 million Americans have been suckered by the Obamacon.

Your 'argument' is limited to hearsay and misinformation, as evident by the pictures you have linked in this thread, all of which have been debunked in this, and all the other previous threads you have posted your falsehoods.

Why is it your images and pictures are more credible? Are they on sacred internet websites? Factcheck? that is like someone saying "Obama is Natural Born,, just ask him" Sorry annenberg don't cut. In fact NONE of you even know someone, anyone who has EVER seen where it says on that vaulted BC where in the hell that liar was born!

NO ONE! The FBI don't do backround checks and have said they didn't. The DNC wasn't his party the DS was.

The reason you get so defensive and ridicule us as if that is going to make a dent, is that deep down even YOU people know that anyone would have settled this by now and wouldn't that be grand! You all could give us a big ole cup o I told you so. Yeah Obama won't even give his own liliputians that kind of satisfaction when he owes them at least that much. What would it take? he has spent more time and money dodging questions about his backround so it couldn't be a matter of principle. I mean lets face it,, Obama? Principled? Nope. don't think so.

But that isn't going to happen and

you secretly know why.


we both do.

reply to post by EYEOFEAGLE

In 1981 Barry Soetoro traveled to Pakistan, he entered the country through Indonesia. He stayed for three weeks. At the time, Pakistan was under military rule and would have been almost impossible for a U.S. Citizen enter that country for visiting a friend.

He dropped out of and left Occidental College in Los Angeles shortly before that trip.

College campuses are favored recruiting grounds of the FBI and CIA. I used to date a Deputy Director of Recruitment for the FBI. Her prized and most sought after recruit that both agencies put a premium on is anyone who can pass as Muslim or Arabic.

I persoanlly believe based on that highly circumstantial evidence Obama was/is/was/is CIA. It would account for all the fast tracking and open doors upon his return, the skillfull acquisition of a targeted power base as a platform towards greater exposure, power and influence, and why so much of his past has official veils of secrecy placed upon it.

Has he been vetted by the CIA and possibly FBI as well? Most probably. Does that make him a natural born United States Citizen? Not nessecarily.

Is he on or off his leash? Sticking with the official program or not? Hard to say.

His refusal to respond to requests for documents in lawsuit filings regarding this issue I do believe says one thing very clearly. It is not the people he serves.

Obama is just an accute symptom of a system that desperately needs a complete overhaul.

This might be a job for queer eye for the straight guy! They seem adept and accomplished at makeovers and it might make a fun reality show to see them whipping through the Senate and Congress, Agencies and Departments of Governments and the White House.

Advertisers?

reply to post by dankai


How come Dubyas birthplace was never challenged.
Is it because he was a whitey and everybody assumed he was born there.

And how come Dubyas mental state was never Challenged?, that's what
I really wanna know.

Originally posted by skeptic_al
reply to post by dankai

 

How come Dubyas birthplace was never challenged.
Is it because he was a whitey and everybody assumed he was born there.

And how come Dubyas mental state was never Challenged?, that's what
I really wanna know.

Probably because he didn't growup in another country, adopted by someone who was a communist in Kenya or had travelled all over the world on passports from all over the place. But most even if he had been asked, do you think he would have ducked something like that to the extent Obama has? I doubt it

No one questioned McCain's birth certificate. He was born on a "military instillation" in the Panama Canal zone. How do we know he wasnt born outside of said instillation?

This whole thing wreaks of racial/political hysteria to me. He is our president deal with it.

reply to post by skeptic_al

How come Dubyas birthplace was never challenged.

I think this argument is degrading to everyone. Yes President Obama is black. So is Collin Powell and he was universally loved by his soldiers. Many white Republicans would have loved to have seen him run for President. It's an evasion of the issue to play the race card.

The concern stems from controversial geographical travels in President Omaba's past and statements of relatives and officials that may or may not be misinterpeted.

W did not attend elementary school in Indonesia. W did not have a grandmother claim he was born in a village in Kenya and she was there.

If it makes you any happier W did have a great, great, great, great, great grandmother hung at the Salem witch trials for being a witch!

This really is just about accepting that their is a controversy and a fair and independent judiciary can put it to rest with a brief and simple examination and investigation of pertinent documents.

We aren't talking about nor trying to justify any other past administration or politician.

Is it so vital to have a President that is black that the constitutional requirements long adhered to that have disqualified many white skinned candidates in the past for not being natural citizens should no longer apply because its vital to have a President that is black?

If so then there should be an intitiative underway to amend the constitution to allow anybody born in another country to be allowed to be President.

Don't come crying to me when you have to listen to eight years of Arnold saying "I'll be back".

If he's like those retired Generals that Cheney had to go out and sell war propaganda as analysts on the News Networks he can kiss my rear end.

Being a retired General or other member of the military doesn't mean you are above putting your own political or personal interests ahead of the truth or what is good for the country. Look at those generals I mentioned. They didn't tell the media they were coordinating their remarks with Cheney and the Bush administration. They were claiming to be independent analysts. Look at Former Naval Aviator and Republican Congressman Duke Cunningham from California. He was the first pilot to win Top Gun and a Vietnam War era ace and war hero. But he's sitting in jail because when he went to Congress he helped lobbyist get government contracts in return for financial favors.

I respect members of the military. Several generations of my family have served and are still serving in the military now. But being a war hero or veteran doesn't make one above question.

Obama has provided a state certified Birth Certificate from Hawaii. This is a non issue that people are using for political purposes. And now to encourage our soldiers not to disobey their Commander in Chief. This is absurd. This wrong and the General should be ashamed of himself.

reply to post by dankai


Maybe it is disrespectful. But it is the truth. He is a civilian that is now retired from military service. I know people who have challenged the system only to have disability benefits stripped away. They could probably even strip you of your retirement pay if you pushed hard enough. He seems to be doing this out of some sense of "public good" whatever that even means. But he isn't putting anything on the line that any other civilian isn't.. Except perhaps his pension and military benefits. This guy's got big ones...

-ChriS

It would seem that the real racists are the ones who keep trying to pull the race card in an attempt to quash any disagreements about our current commander in thief.

Lets not forget that this guy is only half black. Thusly also half white, bu we conveniently never hear about that part. You know, those people that were universally and often violently hated by both black and white people?

Lets also remember that this guy also won by a slim margin, and only after record black turnouts at the polls. Yeah, this guy is all about race and most are too fearful to bring it up.

So far, the man talks a good game but he hasn't done SQUAT for this place yet. Frankly, I hope he can actually do something good, since that's what this country needs desperately right now, and at the same time, I hope he doesn't stomp on more of our rights and freedoms like most democrap leaders we've had.

Of course, this guy is getting some of the same raw deal bush got when he first took office. You know, the whole taking office then wham, terrorist attack and panic.

But tell me this, how long can you feed your families on pretty speeches and hope flavored kool-aid. The mans credibility is falling more and more every day, and it started wen he would not even answer the question, and has actively avoided, blocked and silenced it. "Mr President, can you show us some proof you were born here" and so far, has come up short.

and please, factcheck.org has been debunked long ago, and is about as useful as fox news.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by dankai
Evidentally my arguement is supported by the likes of active military persons, non-active military persons, lawyers, doctors, and the list is virtually endless. The moderators see this as a viable argument!

And our argument is supported by 69 million people.

Originally posted by dankai
Why would you want to attempt to quiet the voices that are only asking for the Constitutional truth?

You mean twisting and perverting the Constitution to subvert an election and damage our Republic.

You mean that insistence on adherence to the Constitution now equates to "twisting and subverting" the Constitution? Orwell himself couldn't have provided a clearer example of doublespeak. Welcome to the Brave New World!

And as far as your attempts to shout down the opposition, who, after all, are only insisting on concrete proof - well, as the Bard said, "Methinks thou doth protest too much!"

nenothtu out

White Guilt Is Now Dead
By Tom Adkins
11-12-8

Look at my fellow conservatives! There they go, glumly shuffling along, depressed by the election aftermath. Not me. I'm virtually euphoric. Don't get me wrong. I'm not thrilled with America 's flirtation with neo socialism. But there's a massive silver lining in those magical clouds that lofted Barak Obama to the Presidency. For today, without a shred of intellectually legitimate opposition, I can loudly proclaim to America : The Era of White Guilt is over.

This seemingly impossible event occurred because the vast majority of white Americans didn't give a fluff about skin color, and enthusiastically pulled the voting lever for a black man. Not just any black man. A very liberal black man who spent his early career race-hustling banks, praying in a racist church for 20 years, and actively worked with America-hating domestic terrorists. Wow! Some resume! Yet they made Barak Obama their leader. Therefore, as of Nov 4th, 2008, white guilt is dead.

For over a century, the millstone of white guilt hung around our necks, retribution for slave-owning predecessors. In the 60s, American liberals began yanking that millstone while sticking a fork in the eye of black Americans, exacerbating the racial divide to extort a socialist solution. But if a black man can become President, exactly what significant barrier is left? The election of Barak Obama absolutely destroys the entire validation of liberal white guilt. The dragon is hereby slain.

So today, I'm feeling a little "uppity," if you will. From this day forward, my tolerance level for having my skin color hustled is now exactly ZERO. And it's time to clean house. No more Reverend Wright's "God Damn America ," Al Sharpton's Church of Perpetual Victimization , or Jesse Jackson's rainbow racism. Cornell West? You're a fraud. Go home. All those "black studies" programs that taught kids to hate whitey? You must now thank Whitey. And I want that on the final.

Congressional Black Caucus? Irrelevant. Maxine Waters? Shut up. ACORN? Outlawed. Black Panthers? Go home and pet your kitty. Black separatists? Find another nation that offers better dreams. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

Gangsta rappers? Start praising America . Begin with the Pledge of Allegiance. And please.no more ebonics. Speak English, and who knows where you might end up? Oh, yeah.pull up your pants. Your underwear is showing. You look stupid.

To those Eurosnots who forged entire careers hating America ? I'm still waiting for the first black French President.

And let me offer an equal opportunity whupping. I've always despised lazy white people. Now, I can talk smack about lazy black people. You're poor because you quit school, did drugs, had three kids with three different fathers, and refuse to work. So when you plop your Colt 45-swilling, Oprah watchin' butt on the couch and complain"Da Man is keepin' me down," allow me to inform you: Da Man is now black. You have no excuses.

No more quotas. No more handouts. No more stealing my money because someone's great-great-great-great grandparents suffered actual pain and misery at the hands of people I have no relation to, and personally revile.

It's time to toss that massive, obsolete race-hustle machine upon the heap of the other stupid 60s ideas. Drag it over there, by wife swapping, next to dope-smoking. Plenty of room right between free love and cop-killing. Careful.don't trip on streaking. There ya go, don't be gentle. Just dump it. Wash your hands. It's filthy.

In fact, Obama's ascension created a gargantuan irony. How can you sell class envy and American unfairness when you and your black wife went to Ivy League schools, got high-paying jobs, became millionaires, bought a mansion, and got elected President? How unfair is that??? Now, Like a delicious O'Henry tale, Obama's spread-the-wealth campaign rendered itself moot by it's own victory! America is officially a meritocracy. Obama's election has validated American conservatism!

So, listen carefully.Wham!!!

That's the sound of my foot kicking the door shut on the era of white guilt. The rites have been muttered, the carcass lowered, dirt shoveled, and tombstone erected. White guilt is dead and buried.

However, despite my glee, there's apparently one small, rabid bastion of American racism remaining. Black Americans voted 96% for Barak Obama. Hmmm. In a color-blind world, shouldn't that be 50-50? Tonight, every black person should ask forgiveness for their apparent racism and prejudice towards white people. Maybe it's time to start spreading the guilt around.