Soldier doubts ( Obama's) eligibility, defies president's orders

Originally posted by sezsue
Everything about Obama has been hidden, including his birth certificate.

If you apply for a job and say you received a college education, you have to prove it. Your employer may want to know what activities you participated in.

You have to show your birth certificate.

Uh, the state of Hawaii has officially produced a certification which every court has recognized as being sufficient for determining citizenship. This has been litigated in the courts, and all have found that there is no legal problem. There is no significant factual evidence and there is no legal evidence there is a problem. The US Supreme Court has taken up the issue and let the appeals court decision stand. Case closed. Literally.

Obama has been subject to the law and the law has been followed.

Simply these people just don't like Obama and are picking on a spurious reason to be a hater.

No doubt if this soldier's suit gets it past the first laugh test, the courts will quickly dismiss with prejudice given the crystal clear precedent. There are no new facts in evidence.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I don't normally do this but I had to log on and star your comment.It is the first time I have seen intellect and common sence together on ATS.

For those of you that still see this empty suit as your savior your time is comeing to feel like a damn fool.With Hillary begging the Chinese for money this farce can't last much longer.

Originally posted by nj2day
Unfortunately, the soldier will end up in court martial...

Obama has been sworn in as president... Thus, he is president, even if he is ineligible.

The military will tell him that its not his job to ask credentials of his president, and that he took an oath to follow the orders of the president.

If he follows through with his dissent, it will result in a court martial and possibly jail time.

Even if you doubt his eligibility for presidency, He still currently holds the position, and thus, still is the president.

this soldier should immediately be court martialed. why? if he is rejecting the commander in chief, he could judge any order he is given as not being legit...this puts every solder around him in jepordy, possibly costing someone their life. this guy has a screw loose and should not have a gun in his hand. if i was in his squad, i would immediately ask for a tranfer just so i didn't have to worry about this sock c#ck covering my six.

Originally posted by sueloujo
reply to post by nydsdan

 

The birth certificate wasnt presented and therefore not verified..that is the whole problem. The certificate he presented on his website previous to him being elected was proven to be a forgery.

Really? Factcheck.org begs to differ.

Let me guess, the evil empire went back in time and posted the birth announcement into BOTH the Honolulu Advertiser and the Star Bulletin too. Magnum P.I. should be all over that one.

Saying that "Obama won, get over" is not going to make this problem go away. This issue was raised even before he was elected, it was an issue then and it's an even bigger issue now. Obviously somebody got to see the real BC and decided that it worked for them politically, regardless of what it said. The reason you didn't hear a clamor about this with Bush or anybody else is because they made their records available to the public, the media didn't need to have a fit to get access to the information!
There are several things that severely bother me about the entire situation.
1. That the majority of Americans ( and people on this thread ) obviously don't care to know the truth
2. That somebody does know the truth but decided to not uphold the constitution, which basically negates American in any sense that we knew it before Obama was elected
and 3. If Obama's ticket is proven invalid and they're removed from office that would leave... PELOSI in charge of America. ( excuse me while I vomit )
At least with Obama we have somebody who can pretend to be sane and rational. Either way you look at it there is a shadow government putting on a mighty interesting performance with their political puppets. The same agenda would be implemented whether Obama or McCain were elected, but how quickly the destruction of America occurred and how fast the red carpet for the NWO was rolled out would have been the difference. With Obama we're just happily being blinded by the shining light from the messiah, all the while accelerating towards the edge of the cliff.


[edit on 24-2-2009 by Eisley]

[edit on 24-2-2009 by Eisley]

reply to post by 5thElement


i think if the order is believed to be illegal they have the right to question and refuse the order. i could be wrong but that's what i've heard from a friend.

I am tired of hearing about the issue of Obama's birth certificate.You people have much bigger things to worry about. In case you haven't noticed, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are trying to throw this country into full blown socialism. It is true that the POTUS has a lot of power, but the House and Senate are the ones that write the laws. So far from what I have seen, a lot of them voted for a stimulus bill without knowing what was in it.
I did not vote for Obama or McCain. I don't like either of their ideas on health care or the economy. I would have liked to see Alan Keyes win, but even if he won, he couldn't accomplish much because of the current leadership in the house and senate.
The only way to change things is to oust people like Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Arlen Spector, Barney Frank and any other members of congress that vote on things without knowing what they are voting for.
Bring in the flat tax and abolish the IRS and let us Americans stimulate the economy!

reply to post by YHSBtard
buddy you need to ease up on the grape kool-aid, take a breath and gather the facts on this matter. this is a serious matter that is pitting countrymen against their government. this individual is expressing what millions are wondering. civil war is around the corner and i believe you will be one of the first to fall with your blind belief in this usurper. until he proves he is eligible the fight will continue until the very last partiot is willing to defend the constitution of this nation. it's not about the man, it's about is he eligible to hold the office. the certification of birth is different than a certificate of live birth. a fact i'm sure you don't care about since as you put it, he won. all i have left to say is the fat lady hasn't sang yet and there are around 40 cases in the legal system asking this question. but again these are facts you can't grasp or to thick to understand. anyway keep your head down when the day comes. i'll be thinkin of ya

reply to post by nydsdan

And its still fact that the original vault certificate has never been produced.They show the amended copy and tbh that does not prove anything.
The truth will out in the end.

reply to post by whitewave


No they don't.

Originally posted by Eisley
Saying that "Obama won, get over" is not going to make this problem go away.

I actually agree. There wil always be that small populous that will agree regardless.... and this is a conspiracy website after all.

reply to post by mbkennel


More insanity. Bill Clinton gets a blowjob... Impeachment. GW Bush starts a war on cherry picked and erroneous intelligence and not even an investigation into blatant crimes.

The GOP disenfranchised millions of voters and electronically rigged the 2004 election on Ohio, effectively stealing two Presidential elections. Accepted. Obama produces documents that are evaluated and accepted and morons are defying orders.

Underlying this all is the fact that the American people clearly showed up to the polls in November and flexed their democratic right to select a candidate. The candidate they chose ended up in office. This cannot be said regarding the previous two elections where the intent of the voting populace on election day was thwarted.

I have plenty of problems with Obama, believe me. But his election, the legal process that accepted his documentation and the will of the people are not amongst my concerns.

And get real, hippies. Our soldiers are property of the military branch they serve. The military is not a democracy. Orders are followed, PERIOD. The military does not work otherwise. The legal system and President wag the military, not the other way around. It is monumentally important that this be respected or we have no Republic.

Come to your senses.

reply to post by Battleline

For those of you that still see this empty suit as your savior your time is comeing to feel like a damn fool.With Hillary begging the Chinese for money this farce can't last much longer.

Thank you for the compliment. To me it’s always been a dog eat dog world and I don’t actually view the office of President with the reverence that many people are inclined too.

I am actually stunned sometimes by where and whom I pick up nuggets of wisdom and common sense. On the X-Files one night Maulder was chastising Skully by advising her that it was one simple word and thing that kept civilization orderly and compliant to who ever is in authority. That word was absolution. Believe in the illusion, follow the illusion, promote the illusion and you are safe from imprisonment and damnation. Morally, ethically, legally the illusion of the system you support might be entirely deficient of those things, thus making you a participant so by extension, but you are absolved of all or any of that. You did what you were told, you accepted what you were told, you believed what you were told, you promoted to others what you were told, you are safe.

One of the ways I have managed to convince several fans of President Obama to not be so optimistic and trusting is by running a few hypothetical Presidential decrees by them.

I will say to them, if George Bush were still President and he told you that he wanted Americans to support him in (insert hypothetical scenario here) would you support it.

Not only no, but heck no is the response.

Then I ask them if President Obama came on TV and prefaced the same hypothetical scenario with “I am jammed up here, my back is against the wall because of what I inherited in this job caused by another person and I am asking you to do this (same hypothetical) for me, and for the nation” I ask that person who said no, I wouldn’t do that for Bush, would you do it now if Obama asked the same thing of you but in that way. The answer becomes more qualified because they understand the point I am making, and the answer is yes, I would have likely supported that if Obama put it to me in that way, except for now, that you have displayed how he can use his status and appeal and unique situation to get me to agree to something I normally would not have agreed too.

The only thing that is keeping a large portion of society from degrading into possible anarchy is the fact that large portion of society does believe Obama represents real hope and real change.

There is one advantage to that in that the rest of us are constantly having our temperatures checked by the powers that be. As they realize that some of their plans are over ambitious and bound to be defeated by a populace that believes in the illusion of freedom and they themselves then have to contemplate the anarchy that might cause, there is a good chance that the powers that be will back away from those plans. There is a good chance that without the illusion of Obama that they would have to force their plans prematurely on a chaotic situation that had degraded into anarchy.

I think in the end there is a chance Obama might backfire on the powers that be. Not because Obama will go off leash or script. Rather because a good many Americans who were not politically active are weighing in on the process again and putting pressure on their elected representatives. I have no doubt that in time most Obama supporters will become disillusioned with him, I am hoping that in the meantime, responsible citizens interested in restoring the democracy and the constitution have ample time to organize and garner that support and the powers that be likewise have ample time to start putting back together what they deliberately tore apart to set the stage for something they are likely already coming to realize is just not going to work. At least not here and at least not now, and if luck is with us all and it works out that way, Obama will end up being a good thing by accident, even if the promises and intent were larcenous. That’s my hope. It doesn’t stop me from stocking up on everything and filling every nook and cranny though and being prepared for a sudden change for the worse.

reply to post by sueloujo


Just so you're aware, had McCain been elected, he was ineligible. He was born in Panama, outside of a military base. There was a law enacted after his birth to provide naturalized citizenship for children of those serving, but it was not retroactive. Technically, it was ambiguous at best. That said, no one in their right mind would have challenged this and he would have served even in light of the revelation. Which would be right.

I must say I am a little...surprised at the comments on this subject. Usually the opinions on topics are relatively similar and if they're not, there is atleast a respect for eachothers different opinions. But, this is another example of the dividing power of politics. I am disappointed when I see people claiming that those of us who have concerns about this are just doing it because we hate Obama. I never said anything personal about Obama. And i don't think that was the purpose of this thread. We are talking about the potus here. Not your boss at work, the President of the United States. Those last 2 words say it all.

I can not fathom how people are not bothered by the fact that our President may not even be American. And to say that because we want to know, we are the ones starting something. Wow. It amazes me how people still believe staying loyal to their party will actually benefit them regardless of what their government is doing. This is about principle, it's about America. If someone was put into office when he wasn't eligible we need to know and he needs to be removed. I don't care who it is. For all those that think this is just about people hating Obama, I would like to see what you would have said if there were questions about George Bush being born in another country. Would you just accept the fact that he won and you need to move on?

[edit on 24-2-2009 by awhispersecho]

Originally posted by nj2day
Unfortunately, the soldier will end up in court martial...

Obama has been sworn in as president... Thus, he is president, even if he is ineligible.

The military will tell him that its not his job to ask credentials of his president, and that he took an oath to follow the orders of the president.

If he follows through with his dissent, it will result in a court martial and possibly jail time.

Even if you doubt his eligibility for presidency, He still currently holds the position, and thus, still is the president.

Actually, if he is ineligible, he will be Impeached, at the very least.

I personally believe he is not an American Citizen, as defined by law.

reply to post by Rockpuck


yes. You and the minority rightwing fringe. The man has satisfied those opposing candidates, the prior administration and the republican state government of Hawaii, and more importantly the state health officials... and yet we really dont have much coming out from you folks other than "his not eligible! I dont believe! I dont believe his birth certificate so Ill say he didnt show it!

Remember folks this is a conspiracy website.... so you already loose 10 brownie points for posting this in here

[edit on 24-2-2009 by Southern Guardian]

I don't understand the "show me the your documents" argument...

I can already see it coming... if he comes up with official documents anytime from now on... how could someone tell it's the 'real deal'?

...because to make such fakery would happen with no effort whatsoever for someone with a billionaire presidential campaign...

so, I think we should look somewhere else for results and REAL GOOD changes for the whole US people.

the "documents" will never be of significant matter, in my opinion... otherwise it would just "appear".

take care, you all...

reply to post by 5thElement

Actually, a soldier not only has the right, but an obligation, to question any order he or she considers to be illegal. Thus, if Obama is not a citizen, but a usurper, then his orders would be illegal. This soldier will, however, face court-martial, and will have to PROVE those orders are illegal.
Odds of proving it? zero to none, but I wish him luck.