Soldier doubts ( Obama's) eligibility, defies president's orders

reply to post by Darky6K


Dude your post is like all over the freakin map! Stick with the topic. This isn't about Bush, the rothschilds, McCain, the dark forces the NWO the PTB

Your answers don't even coincide with the quotes you have used in response to my posts.

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Hawaii ALLOWED foreign births to be recorded until 1970, as long as it was recorded one year from the birth. ...

Obimbo's own sister is registered this way in Hawaii, she was born in Indonesia.

To all the (still) interested members in this discussion:

Note that member Aermacchi has never provided any source for the claim that Hawaii allowed foreign births to be recorded until 1970 as long as it was recorded one year from the birth.

A credible source, Hawaii's Legislature website (capitol.hawaii.gov), does not support Aermacchi's claim.

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child. source

This legislation speaks nothing of as long as it was recorded one year from the birth. What does it say in fact is that parents had to provide evidence that they declared Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year preceding the birth.

Member Aermacchi has either misinterpreted Hawaii's statutes, or is making up the whole thing.

Also worthy of note is that this statute, §338-17.8, was only enacted in 1982 and would be non-existent at the time of Obama's birth, as it's shown on that very same Hawaii's Revised Statutes page.

[L 1982, c 182, §1]

The second claim member Aermacchi makes, that Obama's sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, is registered this way (presumably by taking advantage of this legislation), is also unfounded.

The statute that would allow such a registration, §338-17.8, was non-existent in 1970, the year Maya Soetoro-Ng was born.

Member Aermacchi and other proponents of this conspiracy theory have claimed that Maya Soetoro-Ng has an Hawaiian birth certificate even though she was born in Jakarta, Indonesia.

No credible source for this claim has ever been provided, and no reproduction of Maya Soetoro-Ng's alleged Hawaiian birth certificate has ever been presented.


The proponents of the Kenyan-birth theory could very well prove if Obama was born in Kenya or not. If, as they claim, Obama was born in Kenya, then the State Department would have a visa on record for Obama or at least Obama's mother of August 1961.

Instead of doing actual research and trying to get real information that would help their theory, the Kenyan-birth proponents continue to rely on lies, hearsay, misconceptions and misinterpretations of Hawaiian and US laws.

Originally posted by converge

To all the (still) interested members in this discussion:

Note that member Aermacchi has never provided any source for the claim that Hawaii allowed foreign births to be recorded until 1970 as long as it was recorded one year from the birth.

A credible source, Hawaii's Legislature website (capitol.hawaii.gov), does not support Aermacchi's claim.

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child. source

*Yawn*

This legislation speaks nothing of as long as it was recorded one year from the birth. What does it say in fact is that parents had to provide evidence that they declared Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year preceding the birth.

Member Aermacchi has either misinterpreted Hawaii's statutes, or is making up the whole thing.

You done??

Instead of doing actual research and trying to get real information that would help their theory, the Kenyan-birth proponents continue to rely on lies, hearsay, misconceptions and misinterpretations of Hawaiian and US laws.

Oh for God sake guy,, get off the damn soap box before you slip and fall.

You already got mostr of us in stitches now and we sure don't want you having to get the real kind.

The second claim member Aermacchi makes, that Obama's sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, is registered this way (presumably by taking advantage of this legislation), is also unfounded. The statute that would allow such a registration, §338-17.8, was non-existent in 1970, the year Maya Soetoro-Ng was born. Member Aermacchi and other proponents of this conspiracy theory have claimed that Maya Soetoro-Ng has an Hawaiian birth certificate even though she was born in Jakarta, Indonesia.

Guess you never read the Book "Dreams from my Father"

Author- Barack "Hollywood" Hussein Obama


His passport records are sealed. His college and university records and transcripts are sealed. Kenya has sealed all records relating to him there, and has issued a gag order to his relatives regarding any discussion of him with the media. He will not release his medical records, his Illinois State Senate records, or a list of his donors who contributed less than $200 to his campaign. OVER nine months ago when ever asked if he was a Natural Born Citizen, Obama ignored this question back then as he continues to to this day and all people like Members like member "Convoluted" can do is make more excuses for this pathetic loser, now President, and a country usurped by a guy who hasn't run a lemonade stand much less a country and its ruined economy.


The list of commissioned and non-commissioned military personnel who are challenging Obama's eligibility continues to grow. Here's the latest:


Brigadier General US Air Force, (Ret) Charles E. Jones
Colonel (Ret) Harry Riley former division chief national security agency
1LT OD/LG Scott R. Easterling Active Army Iraq Duty
LtCol. David A. Earl-Graef USAFR MC
SSgt Brian A Keith USMC
Charles L. Miller, Lt. Col. USAF (Ret)
Major James Cannon USMC (Ret)
Police Sgt. and USN Cmdr. Clinton Grimes
Major General (Ret) Carroll D. Childers P.E. Commanding General 29TH Infantry Division VA ARNG

If these soldiers refuses to obey a "lawful order" of a superior officer, he will be subject to court martial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice Is this what they want?

As a defendant in a court martial, he will definitely have "standing" to subpoena individuals, records and documents for his defense.

This guy is putting his personal freedom and career on the line to force this issue. He is a patriot.


To the gentle readers of ATS, in spite of member "Convict's" desperate attempt to malign me,
he fails to maintain a standard of honesty and integrity but would rather use cheap tired tactics of ridicule and false accusation alleging I did not cite sources thus I must be a liar and in his mind this means I belong to some conspiracy where even the very words conspiracy is now being used in a word asscociation to mean any whacked out nutjob that won't kiss the Grand Obimbo's butt.

Well member convict is wrong again and I grow tired of showing him the many ways he has equivocated between the COLB and the Vaulted BC when referring to what the DOH's fukino as said in her statement to mean the COLB. This is clever but it doesn't get past me.

The ONLY thing the DOH has affirmed is their is a vaulted BC on file there and THAT is ALL! Nothing more is to be read into that statement.


I know Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's sister has a Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth too, and she was born in Jakarta, Indonesia. I have read all Obama's Books and his favorite authors books I have also read. I know what he says about his sister.

Member Conflict, has tried to pass off a 1982 legislation as the reason Obama couldn't have possibly be using anything other than a COLB and / or Vaulted BC stating he could have only been born in Hawaii because that law was made in 1982 etc blah blah blah.

Well La Dee Fricken Da!
hawaii.gov...


Does it ever occur to Member "Covent" that perhaps they had such things, as laws before the 1982 law was enacted? Of course they did and guess what else he failed to tell you?

He failed to tell you that I cite the legislation AND the source

one page back.

www.abovetopsecret.com...










[edit on 4-3-2009 by Aermacchi]

reply to post by Aermacchi


Please stop the nonsense with converge's username. If you're in disagreement, antics like that don't help your case. Thanks for your support.

Peace

Originally posted by Aermacchi
reply to post by Darky6K

 

Dude your post is like all over the freakin map! Stick with the topic. This isn't about Bush, the rothschilds, McCain, the dark forces the NWO the PTB

Your answers don't even coincide with the quotes you have used in response to my posts.

I am on topic, I'm saying don't let Bush go as you said we need to move on, remember they did that with Nixon and it set a precedent,, McCain was brought up by you so I countered, and was saying if we act like this without proof, we will be seen as that loon on the corner with a tin-foil hat

[edit on 4-3-2009 by Darky6K]

There are those that, while not contesting that Obama was born in Hawaii, believe he lost his US citizenship because he was allegedly adopted by Lolo Soetoro in Indonesia. Since Indonesia didn't allow dual citizenship, Barack Obama lost his US citizenship when he was adopted, they claim.

Let's analyze those claims considering the US and Indonesian legislation at the time.


The problem with these sort of claims is that US law completely contradicts them, as I've demonstrated here, in a complete overview of loss of citizenship under US law.

In a summarized version: the relevant legislation is §349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). In Obama's case (born in 1961), the INA of 1952 applies. Its §349 is as follows:

SEC. 349. (a) From and after the effective date of this Act a person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturaliza­tion, shall lose his nationality by—

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application, upon an application filed in his behalf by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person : Provided, That nationality shall not be lost by any person under this section as the result of the naturalization of a parent or parents while such person is under the age of twenty-one years, or as the result of a naturalization obtained on behalf of a person under twenty-one years of age by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, unless such person shall fail to enter the United States to establish a permanent residence prior to his twenty-fifth birthday

source (PDF source)

§349 is now codified as 8 USC §1481. (Under current US Code, the age of maturity is 18 years of age, contrary to 21 of the INA of 1952)

Moreover, even if Obama had acquired another citizenship, it would have no impact on his US citizen, as explained by the State Department:

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. source

The last statement is particularly relevant in Obama's case because it also confirms that Obama's father citizenship situation (that granted Obama British nationality automatically at birth) would have no influence on Obama's US citizenship.


Some might say "OK this is US law, but Indonesian law made him an Indonesian citizen!".

Well, to cover all bases let's look at Indonesian law.


(Continued on next post...)

The law in question is Law No. 62 of 1958, Law on the Citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia. The relevant Articles are 2, and potentially 4 and 7. Respectively, they say:

(1) A foreign child of less than 5 years age who is adopted by a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, if such an adoption is declared legal by the Pengadilan Negeri at the residence of the person adopting the child.

Article 2 excludes Obama, because he was 6 years old when he moved to Indonesia. Couldn't be more clear-cut than this.

(1) Aliens born and domiciled in the territory of the Republic of Indonesia whose father or mother, in case they have no legal family relationship with the father, is also born in the territory of the Republic in Indonesia and is a resident of the Republic of Indonesia, may present a petition to the Minister of Justice in order to acquire the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia if they, after having acquired the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, have no other nationality or at the time that they present a petition they also make a statement as to having released another nationality which they may possibly possess, in accordance with the legal provisions prevailing in the country of their origin or according to the provisions of the Agreement on the settlement of the bi-nationality between the Republic of Indonesia and the country in question.

Article 4, while at first glance doesn't appear to apply to Obama (Obama wasn't an alien born and domiciled in the territory of Indonesia) still specifies that the acquisition of Indonesian citizenship would have to be in accordance to the laws of the country of origin of that person.

Even if this Article would apply to Obama, US law at the time would not permit Obama (a minor) to lose his US citizenship and therefor would not be in accordance with the legal provisions prevailing in the country of [his] origin.

(1) A foreign woman married to a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia, acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, if and when she makes a statement as to that effect within 1 year after contracting said marriage, except in case when she acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia she possesses still another nationality, in which case the statement may not be made.

According to Article 7, Obama's mother wouldn't have automatically acquired Indonesian citizenship just by marriage, until she renounced any other nationalities she previously possessed.


As we've been able to see US and Indonesian law contradict and disprove the claims that Obama either lost his US citizenship because of his adoption, or even held Indonesian citizenship.

It's clear that the lunatic fringe that keeps promoting these theories have no evidence or legal arguments on their side; in fact, all evidence and laws disprove their claims.

I'm sure however that these facts will not stop them from continuing to post the same lies, unfounded claims, misconceptions or proceeding with the name-calling and stereotyping of everyone who disagrees with their delusional beliefs.

It's pretty evident that plenty of Obamabots are still on the payroll, naturally. Why else there would be so many ardent supporters on ATS. They are motor mouths who use ridicule, always a dead giveaway. Referring to a retired general who served 38 years, as "senile" and "white trash" because he raised valid questions about Obama -- is bullying and disgusting. Obama never served in any military function. The military despises him--when he visited a Christmas dinner for marines in Hawaii, the room went dead silent when he came in and nobody got up until he went around to the individual tables. He is the first president (?) to not go to the American Legion Inaugural Ball. He's contemptable. You really think he's on their side? You think he's on the "white side." He's not really a friend of blacks either, but they don't care as long as he's black. He's also a narcissist, as are so many of his gurus. I have detested Krauthammer but he's on the mark here: Charles Krauthammer asks, "[H]as there ever been a presidential nominee with a wider gap between his estimation of himself and the sum total of his lifetime achievements?" Sam Vaknin, Ph.D., author of Malignant Self Love: Narcissism Revisited, writes that "Barack Obama appears to be a narcissist," and offers a detailed explanation."

Someone called a white general of 38 years service "an old white racist" when we have a "president' who spent 20 years listening to Jeremiah Wright? 95% of blacks voted for him, only because he's black.

Back to the birth certificate. He should have produced one. Where is it? I worked for a government agency and to get a security clearance you HAD to produce a BIRTH CERTIFICATE. This man came to the United States as a foreign student, which is probably why his records at Columbia are sealed. He admitted to traveling in Pakistan on an Indonesian passport. A Kenyan family member said he was born there. Pointedly, he himself simply ignores the subject, but the he never says anything direct, or that is of any substance. Just quasi-religious babble.

In the long run, perhaps it doesn't matter. The truth will come out--this is not the Kennedy assassination. In fact, a lot of the truth is out, shouted down by the O-bots we see here, and by MSM which has been kissing this man's ass for 3 years now. The only reason they could possibly back him so completely--for he's not really done anything of note, has no brilliant writings to his name except a book about himself--is because he's unimpeachable. Even criticizing him legitimately gets whites called racist--not that whites care anymore about that now ridiculous term. We have a black president, a black AG and god knows how many other affirmative action blacks in government. Whites don't care anymore, about the "racism" that is supposed to afflict them. There is no country in the world where black have so many opportunities. Even the "poor" are supported by the taxpayers (of all colors.)
This man is not President. He never "won" Pennsylvania, as any number of Pennsylvanians have told me. He won coal country? Yeah, right. Massive voter fraud won Obama, and more money was spent for his campaign then all the other presidential campaigns since 1800--trillions. Yet he only "won" by 2%. Non-pres Bush stole votes, but at least we know where Bush was born. As for McCain and being born in Panama, the "white guy" knew he wouldn't get away with anything. Contrary to popular opinion, white guys don'tl. No white guy would have reamained a candidate after spending 20 years with a racist white pastor. So Mccain ADDRESSED the question, had the court elaborate, and the law was satisfied. His eligibility was confirmed according to the laws. All Obama had to do to gain credibility with the critics was ADDRESS questions directly. But he's a coward as well as a liar.

reply to post by centralcasting


"payroll"????

Still waiting for MY check....been waiting all through the Bush Administration as well!!!

Payroll.....pfffft!!!

Look, not to stray any further....THIS is about THIS soldier....he has 'doubts'.

Well, boo-hoo!

DID THIS soldier enlist whilst under the current CIC jurisdiction???

IF so, then, make a case....DID this soldier willingly enlist during a previous CIC jursidiction??? I mean, so far as I know, the USA still has an all-volunteer service, no 'mandatory draft' requirements, as in some other Nations.

A member of the Armed Services, once willingly and knowingly agreeing to become a member of said Service, cannot simply announce his/her commitment 'null and void' because he/she dislikes the outcome of a duly certified, by the Supreme Court, and the Congress of the United States, National Election just because he/she is disappointed with the outcome of the certified Election!!!!

This is ludiricous to the extreme.

reply to post by mckyle

You know, after reading your retort to Whitwave, I think I should suggest to you that you refrain from posting. You make yourself to look rather poorly.

reply to post by centralcasting


Why is it when it's you it's called confidence, but, when it's Obama it's called narcissism ?

Could you be wrong ? What would you do if you were wrong ?

Would you self-destruct ?

Why do you ASSUME that those who voted for him have lower IQ then you do and why do you assume that those who voted for him did not researched the candidates before going to the voting booth ?

What makes you research and line of thinking more genuine ?

Originally posted by centralcasting
You really think he's on their side? You think he's on the "white side." He's not really a friend of blacks either, but they don't care as long as he's black. ...

Someone called a white general of 38 years service "an old white racist" when we have a "president' who spent 20 years listening to Jeremiah Wright? 95% of blacks voted for him, only because he's black. ...

Even criticizing him legitimately gets whites called racist--not that whites care anymore about that now ridiculous term. We have a black president, a black AG and god knows how many other affirmative action blacks in government. Whites don't care anymore, about the "racism" that is supposed to afflict them. There is no country in the world where black have so many opportunities. ...

As for McCain and being born in Panama, the "white guy" knew he wouldn't get away with anything. Contrary to popular opinion, white guys don'tl. No white guy would have reamained a candidate after spending 20 years with a racist white pastor.

For a few days now, no one even mentioned race, and when people did, it was usually frowned up by everyone, on both sides of this issue.

You talk about how everyone who disputes your theories must have some hidden motive or agenda (on Obama's payroll), but I have to to hand it to you, hidden motives is not something you even come close to having because it's quite apparent from your post why you hate Obama, or have a deep suspicion about him and everything he does.

You just confirmed that the motives of some in this is really about race. I'd like to think the majority of people who question his eligibility do so because of legitimate legal concerns, but it's still dumbfounding when bigots and racists show their heads so explicitly.


[edit on 5-3-2009 by converge]

Vociferous condemnations of "racism" as expected. Liberal whites are in a permanent state of quivering outrage over any less than favorable comment about non-whites.
Only smug white people believe there is no "race." They think this makes them Better People and lends a sort voodoo protection. It doesn't. Liberals commit as much injustice as any Conservative, probably more, larded with icky self-righteousness. Blacks are very likely to despise you even more than a more honest white who believes that if self-interest is ok for one race, it is ok for all. With blacks it is virtually ALWAYS about race. I don't think I used the word "confidence" as an apposition to "narcisissum." There are no recent Presidents for whom I have any respect or regard, and few politicians. I didn't diagnose Obama--Vakin, the world expert on narcissism did so, and I concur.

Nevertheless, there have been black candidates I could vote for. Obama the Fraud is just not one of them. My former co-worker, a woman from Africa, would be a great American president, no kidding. Alas, she was not born here. She and her 80 year old mother went through the proper ropes to become Amercan citizens, the mother even losing 5 years because she inadvertently returned to Africa during the waiting period. This lady was an Obama supporter and her African husband, who hadn't bothered to vote in any election, did register in 2008 so he could vote for Obama, even though they had a lot of the same opinions i have on Obama. Race matters.
There are so many examples of race trumping everything in popular culture. Brown people, yellow people. Race matters to them. Only smug whites, especially those who think they are in control and think they are immune until they learn differently, think race plays no part in all this sound and fury. They appear to be in some sort of brainwashed trance, or else are deliberately dumbed down.

As for the good soldier who claims he supports this president , a president who was duly vetted (yeah, right) and allowed by the Supreme Court (pretty much the same court who gave Bush the shoo in) to hold office, well, that's your problem. War is racket as a famous Marine Corps general said in the 1930s. It's sometimes a necessary racket and I would never impugn the bravery of those who serve.
Obama despises Americans and what he called their 57 states. It doesn't take too much wisdom to realize that anybody who runs for President these days should not be in that office, as it always takes a deep power hungry drive and sociopathy. The candidates are all handled by handlers. BO just happens to be even slimier than the average, but in some ways no worse than Bush. Indeed it has been 8 years of Bush that made President BO possible.

As for my research--some things you get from deduction, some from induction. Not much worth calling truth comes from the MSM. A candidate for the President of the U.S. who won't tell anything about his past except musings on himself, as if he matters so much, who continually associated with a white hating pastor, whose idol was an American hating psycho Ayres, does not deserve respect of any thinking American. It's not all race, if that makes you feel less outraged. BO's aroma transcends race. So many of his "friends", white and black, are even worse than he is.

reply to post by centralcasting


Thank you for continuing to illustrate my point.

Race matters.

Race might matter to some people, in some situations; but it does not matter in this one.

Nowhere in the Constitution race is a requirement for being eligible for Office.

As for my research--some things you get from deduction, some from induction.

Basically nothing tangible or admissible in a Court of law, which is ironic in itself since you are promoting the idea of suing the President because you claim he hasn't done his legal requirements to hold Office.

"Thanks for proving my point."

Everybody here was thinking it dude. It's the elephant in the living room. Some of us just have the guts to say it; and Holder thinks he wants the truth. Right. He may be right about this "nation of cowards" as long as he includes himself and Obama.

The law has been satisfied on Obama's birth papers long ago, it is just the fringe elements in society and the commie socialist hating right that has latched onto this boondoggle.