Soldier doubts ( Obama's) eligibility, defies president's orders

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by zappafan1

 

zappafan.....possibly, but consider this: Nixon, facing Impeachment and removal from Office, resigned instead. DID ALL OF his signed Bills and apointments suddenly become invalid?

Gubment just don't work that way, ya betcha!!

I'm not a Constitutional law scholar, but I would presume that the follow-on CIC would have the RIGHT to vacate everything done by the previous CIC...or, just let them stand.

You sensationalize Saint4god using the word democrat rather than democratic and act like he just raped your mother saying MY MY!! he was showing his true colors!! Well you sure exploited his motives!

Saint.....your most offensive bit was the last sentence.....

You wrote 'democrat opposition'....instead of the proper 'democratic'....

Thanks for showing your true colors!!!! "
"Originally posted by weedwhacker

BAD SAINT! BAD BAD BAD!

I'm reading this post thinking to myself, wow, you will go to any length to avoid a discussion when it's a real dialogue requiring more than your monosyllabic mumbo jumbo, and why???

JUST to have an excuse to tip toe out of that argument you were about to get schooled in. Transparent as it is desperate but he did have you boxed in, all dressed up and ready to send you to the party in the costume.

When that failed, and he pressed on, what do YOU do??

You see his avatar and start attacking his faith HA HA HA HA wow that was strateeeeeeeegic! Saint didn't skip a beat, and as usual, he patiently waited and asked you again and you found yet another reason you don't want to engage his inquiry, but ya know what,,

NO ONE BUYS IT.

But you bought it.

It seems you have a vested interest in defending Obama about this WEEEEED. Tell us wonderboy why someone who is willing to risk his life for his country while he and everyone else is asked to cough up over a trillion dollars to bailout the beverly billionares, tell me why you think it is TOO much to ask that he validate that fraudulent COLB before he is asked by ,, hell who really knows who Obama really is but one thing I know he is NOT. He is NOT leading by example. I hear you mouthing off about Bush Bush Bush and telling people of the popularity of Obimboborg, as if you are saying "Whhaaa You guys got to have a retard for president, now it's our turn to out do you republicans and show you what a REAL educated idiot can do!

We aren't asking for much and what we are asking for wouldn't harm anyone. It's simple and it's easy and it is no more than the Democrats asked of McCain when they investigated him to put up his vaulted BC. To think that someone would protect some shady lawyer for the only other candidate that ever really fought for us.

Well he did something so much more gracious with so much more class and he did it because McCain is a leader, Obama, he is a taker a faker a liar and a thief. Nixon was President and was a natural born citizen so it isn't the same comparison if Obama proves to have never been eligible in the first place but it is curious to me the tactic I see so many of you Obamaborg in the collective doing to justify your position and it seems that anyone who you can bring up from the past that had screwed up, you apparently believe that, because of that we owe history yet another blithering Bozo, (this time Obamaboze,) to get back at us with.

The really sad part is, it will be YOUR guy,,

that finally brings the U.S.A. to it's knees

We have people like you

to thank for that

Good GAME!




[edit on 2-3-2009 by Aermacchi]

reply to post by Aermacchi


Aerm....at the risk of a slap from the Mods....'monosyllabic'???

YOU, of all people....(OK, don't get personal....).....but, 'monosyllabic'???

'nuf said 'bout that!

Second risk of Mods' wrath.....I know that I have, er'herm, been a bit long-winded when posting....in the past....but, I'm learning (two syllables) how to trim my thoughts.

Back to point: Bless his heart, a 'retired' MG....for speaking his mind!!!

(Another thread, look it up!)

Now, what...a PFC wishes to 'defy' orders?

Look....I am not a 'fan' of Bush, nor his 'actions' (refuse to call it a "war", because it is NOT!)

President Obama, not my first pick either!!! Was not a 'fan' from the get-go, but I find that I am warming to the thought.

After all, compared to Bush 43, the majority HAVE spoken, via their votes!

There is ANOTHER thread, here on ATS, about Obama's eligibility, whether he is a Natural Born Citizen, per the Constitution ("just a *damned piece of paper", according to Number 43....)...but WE know it's important.

I've already pointed out that, regardless, ANY soldier must follow the Chain of Command.

Let's say you work for a Corporation....and you dislike the new CEO. Does THAT mean you can call "foul" all of a sudden, and refuse to work because the new CEO doesn't fit the 'bill' you pictured???

Thus, the 'Chain of Command'. Corporate, Military...same ole' same ole'.....

Originally posted by weedwhacker
YOU, of all people....(OK, don't get personal....).....but, 'monosyllabic'???

MOI?? oui?

MONO-SYL-LA-BIC

Second risk of Mods' wrath.....I know that I have, er'herm, been a bit long-winded when posting....in the past....but, I'm learning (two syllables) how to trim my thoughts.

Ostensibly,,

Back to point: Bless his heart, a 'retired' MG....for speaking his mind!!! Another thread look it up

I have posted there.

Now, what...a PFC wishes to 'defy' orders?

No he wants Obama to take responsibility for his watch. So far, we have had everyone from fatcheck.borg to a chick named fukino say he is but they are not the Grand Obamabubu.

Look....I am not a 'fan' of Bush, nor his 'actions' (refuse to call it a "war", because it is NOT!)

You been there?

President Obama, not my first pick either!!! Was not a 'fan' from the get-go, but I find that I am warming to the thought.

You always did like it on the fence you agnostic gnostic you.

After all, compared to Bush 43, the majority HAVE spoken, via their votes!

("just a *damned piece of paper", according to Number 43

Like to see you prove that one weeeeed

I've already pointed out that, regardless, ANY soldier must follow the Chain of Command.

As long as the top link in the chain ain't jerkin your chain, I'd agree and I always did when I served.

Let's say you work for a Corporation....and you dislike the new CEO. Does THAT mean you can call "foul" all of a sudden, and refuse to work because the new CEO doesn't fit the 'bill' you pictured???

Oh weed, you'd LOVE my Boss, we have a blast. Little different than taking off from a carrier but you'd like it I am sure.

Alenia Aermacchi

Thus, the 'Chain of Command'. Corporate, Military...same ole' same ole'.....

Aye




[edit on 2-3-2009 by Aermacchi]

reply to post by Aermacchi


Well....Aerm....see you've done your research...props!!!

Taking OFF from a carrier....the catapult.....do you have ALL OF YOUR knowledge from MS???

regardless....LANDING on a carrier....oh, and I do NOT want to hear about that Photo Op, back in 2003....it was SO 2003!!!!

We're straying off....look, it is simple.

A SOLDIER 'doubts' (Obama's) eligibility, defies orders. THAT is the issue...it is about THAT soldier....end of sentence!!!!

Originally posted by whiterabbit85
since never. If eveyrone goes around questioning orders, wars will be uncontrolled chaos. People like this not only endager themselves, but everyone that they fight with, and everything that they are supposed to be fighting for. as far as i'm concerned, this is prettty much treason, and they should be tried as such.

Rather than blindly following orders which is why there are wars now, because people are retarded and can't just sit down and talk things out like civilized people. Let me tell you what, if I am putting my life on the line for any number of other people, be it one, or one billion, I want to know if i'm being lied to by my so called superiors. I dont know about you, but i dont just accept everything i am told, i question everything and require a form of proof to convince me that there isn't something foul at hand. If you aren't willing to give another HUMAN BEING that same right, well i believe you can go ~snip~

It is totally unacceptable for you to sit in your comfortable lazy boy chair with your face glued to your nice flatscreen monitor in the comfort of your own home then get mad when someone who is being shot at questions something. Seriously, treason? It's not only that one soldiers DUTY but YOUR duty to protect the united states from all forms of corruption, foreign and DOMESTIC. So rather than sit in your little chair and whine about someone else questioning things, maybe you should take a look at the situation from ALL perspectives than just one close minded one.

reply to post by weedwhacker


The difference is with corporate you can quit your job and go elsewhere, in the military you try to quit and everyone whines treason and has your ass tried in the court of law. Where the hell do the words civil liberties come into play in the life of a militant?

Originally posted by Xilvius
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

The difference is with corporate you can quit your job and go elsewhere, in the military you try to quit and everyone whines treason and has your ass tried in the court of law. Where the hell do the words civil liberties come into play in the life of a militant?

Or your "buddies" will fill your $3 million football body full of bulletholes while you wave the white flag, come up and put a few right in your brain while you beg for your life -- like they did to Pat Tillman, the guy who gave up his miltimillion dollar football career to go fight terror and when he got there he found out it was all bogus. So after spying the guy out in his calls and letters back home, catching the drift that he was no longer Mr. Gung Ho to kill those terrorists anymore (found out the terrorists was his own government), they decided they'd best "off" him -- for "national security" reasons, you know.

Originally posted by whitewave
I know when I get a job I have to meet the requirements: drug test, no criminal background, proof of citizenship. If it turns out later I lied on my application, even if I'm already working, immediate termination is the result.

That's pretty standard across the country. There's not one law for the little guy and a different law for the big guy. Obama could solve a lot of this doubt by just SHOWING HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE!

agreed, but ill take it further and say i want the whole of government except people who support supply side economics, true reform, and constituitional liberty that means ending the dru* war to step down in shame and resentment, or just go back to your alien world of control freaks and leave earth alone!

Originally posted by Salt of the Earth

Originally posted by Xilvius
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

The difference is with corporate you can quit your job and go elsewhere, in the military you try to quit and everyone whines treason and has your ass tried in the court of law. Where the hell do the words civil liberties come into play in the life of a militant?

Or your "buddies" will fill your $3 million football body full of bulletholes while you wave the white flag, come up and put a few right in your brain while you beg for your life -- like they did to Pat Tillman, the guy who gave up his miltimillion dollar football career to go fight terror and when he got there he found out it was all bogus. So after spying the guy out in his calls and letters back home, catching the drift that he was no longer Mr. Gung Ho to kill those terrorists anymore (found out the terrorists was his own government), they decided they'd best "off" him -- for "national security" reasons, you know.

Yeah my GF and I were just talking about Pat last night too. What a tragedy of errors that happened and such a waste of human life when you consider the false pretense he was under to do what almost everyone in his position wouldn't have even occured to them.

It is situations like this, and many many more that our U.S. Presidents and down are held in such question. From the Lynch rescue mission to Pat's death, from watergate to whitewater and sex with interns to Presidents forcing us to hand over trillions of dollars to an already completely incompetent congress and senate, the buck should stop where it should rightfully end and that is at the top.

Yet once again, we have a President, unique from all the past Presidents in that this one breaks the race barrier but his M.O. is not unique and it is one we have seen before many times.

You would think of all the things a Candidate does to become president, from the multi-million dollars they spend to get a job that doesn't pay enough to break even on the money spent getting it, all the hand shaking and stump speeches all the questions asked and looked into for truth.

You would think asking him to provide us with an original vaulte birth certificate would have been the most simple most easily complied request a voter could have asked for to find out something about the man that would ask all the rest of the Pat Tillman's of this world to make the ultimate sacrifice.

Albeit their aren't many like Tillman out there but their sure seems to be a lot like Bush and the rest of the thugs in Government.

That unlike Bush who we found later to be a corrupted Christian (if that is even true) and a liar and a cheat, we find out right from start with Obama, that the buck STARTS where it ends and all the warning signs were there but no one wants to overlook his uniqueness in-lieu of this common distinction all in Government share.

That we can't trust these guys to be above board and honest about a damn thing and NO WONDER, we have those in the military acting like this. Just look at what the leadership is like.

If the CIC isn't going to listen to the people for such a simple request, why then should we expect our military to risk their lives when the oath they all take including Obama's, means nothing to him. We want to say not to giving him our money when he won't lift a finger to give us the time of day much less validate that fraudulent COLB. The military has more at stake then mere money.

That when it comes to where the buck stops, the axiom is true. Never stop asking for more from the taxpayer until the Taxpayers say:

No more from me, no more from you, no more from them

The Buck$ stops here

The Buck$ stop

with us

Originally posted by weedwhacker
I've already pointed out that, regardless, ANY soldier must follow the Chain of Command.

Incorrect! Their primary duty is to uphold the Constitution and protect the nation from ALL ENEMIES, foreign and DOMESTIC. As others have already pointed out there are Constitutional provisions on who can legally hold the office of President. A Constitutional crisis is brewing over this. There may be a usurper in office!

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Aermacchi

 

Well....Aerm....see you've done your research...props!!!

Taking OFF from a carrier....the catapult.....do you have ALL OF YOUR knowledge from MS???

regardless....LANDING on a carrier....oh, and I do NOT want to hear about that Photo Op, back in 2003....it was SO 2003!!!!

We're straying off....look, it is simple.

A SOLDIER 'doubts' (Obama's) eligibility, defies orders. THAT is the issue...it is about THAT soldier....end of sentence!!!!

Taking OFF from a carrier....the catapult.....do you have ALL OF YOUR knowledge from MS???

Ha ha I cracked up when I saw this because I DO play MS Flight simulator lol but no I have 6 years squadron U.S.S. Saratoga CV-60 Carrier task force 6th fleet. (De-commisioned). I've always known you were a pilot and thought that may be something we could find some common interest for a change rather than always being on the other end of the issues like we usually are in the Athey VS Christy threads is all.

A SOLDIER 'doubts' (Obama's) eligibility, defies orders. THAT is the issue...it is about THAT soldier....end of sentence!!!!

Well it's a little more than that Weed, he may not be a general and he might be military but one thing we all know should put him in a rank of people that should give this person more of a respectable status when you consider he is someone more important then some PVT first class or some third class petty officer etc.

He is an American Taxpayer and


a voter

reply to post by Aermacchi


Even a PFC deserves as much respect as a four-star....

But, riddle me this: When you buck the 'chain of command', where are your 'friends'?

Here's what this guy 'could' have done....the 'conscientious objecter' route.

I think, the flimsy (He ain't a natural-born citizen) argument is going to bury this particular soldier.

Leo Donofrio, who also filed a lawsuit contesting Obama's (and McCain's) natural born citizenship has advised active military personnel to not get involved in these lawsuits.

A few weeks ago, I suggested hypothetically that active military might have standing to bring a class action to question Obama’s POTUS eligibility. After reviewing various sections of the Uniform Code of Military Justice pointed out to me by various readers, I came to the conclusion that such a law suit would probably not only fail, but would also subject soldiers to potential court martial.

He's also apparently speaking against this lawyer (Orly Taitz) requesting active military people to get involved.

If Orly Taitz is going to solicit active military to join her potential law suit and sign consent forms thereto, then she should be charged with the responsibility of knowing the exact punishment her clients will be subjected to, and she should be protecting them from any unnecessary jeopardy.

There was absolutely no need for contemptuous language to have been uttered as such language is clearly in violation of Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which states:

Article 88—Contempt toward officials

a. Text of statute.

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Maximum punishment. Dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

Clearly, calling the President an “imposter” and a “usurper” is contemptuous language by any possible definition of the word.

source

[edit on 2-3-2009 by converge]

Originally posted by weedwhacker

Even a PFC deserves as much respect as a four-star....

But, riddle me this: When you buck the 'chain of command', where are your 'friends'?

Here's what this guy 'could' have done....the 'conscientious objecter' route.

I think, the flimsy (He ain't a natural-born citizen) argument is going to bury this particular soldier.

Well I don't know, about that I am not JAG and or a tribunal. If he is navy it will start as a Captains Mast. Then if his argument is compelling enough to the Captain, he will offer the sailor a summary court martial which is what comes before a general court martial. What would throw this into an interesting case is if he is able to get a congressional inquest going. I know when you get in trouble in the military, you are either let off with a slap on the wrist and some punishment like extra duty, or they can trump up some garbage so high it would amaze you they can be so corrupt not unlike we saw in the movie with Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson "A Few Good Men" It all depends on how well this guy thought out what he is doing. I don't know all the particulars of the case but if he is being used as an agent provocateur in something they are planning would compel Obama to show his hand in a more formal tribunal, it would be interesting to see what kind of pains Obama would take to impede the case via means of obstruction of justice where he being CIC would merely have to prove his place of birth like anyone else the Military has questions about with that, they ask for the vaulted BC and you either provide one or the FBI will find it FOR you. Now the FBI has stated they have not done a backround check on Obama in that regard and I know many of them are starting to wonder what the big freakin deal is with him refusing to show his, ESPECIALLY when he was so adament about McCain providing his.

McCain complied as expected he should under the circumstances surrounding his birth place and all that.

So I am not in disagreement with you as far as the UCMJ, it is pretty vague and left to the discretion of his superior officers. Many times the Military and the way they do their own investigations are and as in the Tillman case, pretty pathetic and woefully untrained in investigation inspite of what we see on TV shows like Mark Harmon or the old JAG episodes.

You know if their is a grass roots effort to get more onboard with this kind of action, we have more than merely a soldier dis-obeying orders, we have us a mutiny, and THAT would make headlines which would bring this question to the forefront. The article we see in the old news paper announcing Obama being born is being investigated and their is some interesting things being said about how many of the others mentioned being born, don't exist or never did. I can't say for sure as I don't have all the data, I was going to ask Dimensional Detective if he had found anything on that yet as he uses some pretty resourceful methods of obtaining information before anyone else seems to get it around here.

As for the 'conscientious objecter' route, I don't know if that would work, you see it depends on whether he joined before Obama and had anticipated Obama would be more transparent with full orpn honest self disclosure using only the best sources of information to substantiate himself as a NBC or not. Certainly those sources were available to him and the argument that he doesn't have to show it is a bunch of crap. Why sugar coat it showing us anyway with a COLB that has even more suspicion surrounding it, when he could just as well said,

America, who I am is NONE of your business!

Now hurry up and make me,,

your MESSIAH!

Originally posted by converge
Leo Donofrio, who also filed a lawsuit contesting Obama's (and McCain's) natural born citizenship has advised active military personnel not got involved in these lawsuits.

A few weeks ago, I suggested hypothetically that active military might have standing to bring a class action to question Obama’s POTUS eligibility. After reviewing various sections of the Uniform Code of Military Justice pointed out to me by various readers, I came to the conclusion that such a law suit would probably not only fail, but would also subject soldiers to potential court martial.

He's also apparently speaking against this lawyer (Orly Taitz) requesting active military people to get involved.

If Orly Taitz is going to solicit active military to join her potential law suit and sign consent forms thereto, then she should be charged with the responsibility of knowing the exact punishment her clients will be subjected to, and she should be protecting them from any unnecessary jeopardy.

There was absolutely no need for contemptuous language to have been uttered as such language is clearly in violation of Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which states:

Article 88—Contempt toward officials

a. Text of statute.

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Maximum punishment. Dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

Clearly, calling the President an “imposter” and a “usurper” is contemptuous language by any possible definition of the word.

source

You ever do any study of contract law consierge? I don't know what your beef is with people wanting Obama to show hos damn BC and I really don't give a rats azz when all you do is rag on people for asking. What it is to you I have no idea unless it offends you for some silly reason. You have called them fringe whackos and ridiculed the hell out of them and what YOU think of them for asking is none of our business. We get it you swing from Obama's vas defrens, we get it you are enamored with the man child rookie senator community agitator and we get it that you think we don't have a right to ask.

SO WHAT!

We are going to ask and ask and ask and ask and ask and if it pisses you off,,,

TOO BAD!

The fact is, NO ONE BUT NO ONE KNOWS UNEQUIVOCALLY WHERE THIS DUDE WAS BORN! With all the spurious people and suspicious events rumor or not fact or fiction, this is ONE time, just ONCE,, he can satisfy some of the "fringe" who are in fact growing in number, just by doing the same thing McCain had to do. Considering what he is asking all of us to fork over,, I don't think we are asking for much and I don't think anyone gives a hoot what some high flyin judges think.

After the supreme court messed with one election already,

They ain't all that supreme anymore.

Obama has presented his birth certificate and Hawaii has certified that it's valid. This has been sufficient for the John McCain and the Supreme Court and the US Congress, none of whom have any question on the matter. But maybe all of them are in on the coverup.

The number of people who have signed on to "force the issue" is smaller than the number of people in the Flat Earth Society. Sore losers inventing their own reality.

Is this soldier more expert in detecting forgeries than any of these authorities?

Think this out. Suppose we say that every soldier has the right to disobey orders until they personally see a copy of the president's birth certificate and personally agree that it as valid; until then every solider has a right to freely disobey orders from their superiors all the way up to the President. Not just this president of course; any president.

Great idea! I guess every army solider or national guardsman who doesn't want to be shipped out could likewise refuse the orders, until and unless Obama's birth certificate is presented to him, and he personally believes it to be true and not a fake. This might end the war even sooner than the Iraqi government and the Obama administration want.

reasoner

reply to post by Aermacchi


Aermacchi you still havent shown us evidence as to why Obama is not american born. As said prior the weight of the accusation lies on those individuals who are making these accusations. Obama has satisfied state and health officials and even his opponents with evidence of his natural born citizenship. The only people who are still going all over this thing are the rightwing fringe.

You have not provided us any evidence to prove thse accusations.... and it appears that all your doing now is throwing fits. I mean what is it going to kill you to admit the conspiracy has been debunked? Are you going to continue lying to yourself for the sake of arrogance?

Come on now.... show us undisputed evidence that he was not born in these United states or that his not a natural born citizen by law. The burden of proof lies on you.

Originally posted by Aermacchi
You ever do any study of contract law consierge?

When referring to my username please write it correctly, I've always written yours correctly.

I'm getting tired of you're deliberate 'mistakes' and name-calling. And no you shouldn't stop because I'm asking, you should stop because it's against the T&C.

I don't know what your beef is with people wanting Obama to show hos damn BC and I really don't give a rats azz when all you do is rag on people for asking.

I'm not ragging on anyone. I'm presenting relevant information for the discussion in this thread.

Many members were discussing the legality or authority of soldiers to question President Obama's orders, I simply quoted relevant information to that particular discussion.

I thought you'd appreciate the information since it comes from someone, that like you, questions Obama's eligibility.

You have called them fringe whackos and ridiculed the hell out of them and what YOU think of them for asking is none of our business.

The people who contest that Obama was born in Kenya, and has been, apparently for 47 years, manipulating State and federal officials and agencies; both political parties and the intelligent community are part of the lunatic fringe, yes.

That's what I've called them.

We are going to ask and ask and ask and ask and ask and if it pisses you off,,,

People asking questions don't piss me off. What pisses me off is people knowingly spreading lies and misconceptions about this whole matter.

What I've always done is address the claims, I've never argued that people shouldn't be allowed to ask questions.

The number of people who believe Obama isn't eligible, who believe under the law he doesn't qualify as a natural born citizen, mean absolutely nothing in terms the validity of the claim. The only thing that matters in this whole thing is what legally is or isn't correct.

People can spend the rest of times debating their beliefs, I will continue to talk about the actual relevant legislation and legal arguments.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by Aermacchi

 

Aermacchi you still havent shown us evidence as to why Obama is not american born. As said prior the weight of the accusation lies on those individuals who are making these accusations. Obama has satisfied state and health officials and even his opponents with evidence of his natural born citizenship. The only people who are still going all over this thing are the rightwing fringe.

You have not provided us any evidence to prove thse accusations.... and it appears that all your doing now is throwing fits. I mean what is it going to kill you to admit the conspiracy has been debunked? Are you going to continue lying to yourself for the sake of arrogance?

Come on now.... show us undisputed evidence that he was not born in these United states or that his not a natural born citizen by law. The burden of proof lies on you.

I have never seen any evidence that proves HE is an American NBC!

Hey SouthernG,.you want to debunk something??

The Burden of proof was with him and STILL is, but people like you want to supress it and insist he is what he has never proven.

But if you're right, then what are you doing here south? Just like to argue? I mean after all we are fringe and we have no proof we have no argument yet HERE YOU ARE!

Why is that?

HOW ABOUT SHOWING THE VAULTED BC AND LETTING US SEE WHERE THE HELL HE WAS BORN because, so far, NO ONE HAS SEEN IT and the few that have NEVER SAID where he was Born! Only that it was in fact a vaulted BC. BIG DEAL!





[edit on 2-3-2009 by Aermacchi]

Originally posted by converge


I'm not ragging on anyone. I'm presenting relevant information for the discussion in this thread.

Fair enough, Ill ask what you think was the reason behind Obama writing that non binding legislation making McCain a NBC was about?