Is it time to ditch the bible?

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by pikypiky

 

pikypiky, Good thought there....politics of the day certainly have hurt the central message of John 13:34, 35, don't you agree?

Yep, that's all anyone needs to know. I don't understand why people need direction and guidance spelled out pages upon pages and eons after eons just to get this simple message across. Again it's politics and the power behind it to control people.

OT

PS: What can WE do to help/change that?

Good question: If you take everything Biblical away from these sheep cold-turkey (sorry again I'd have to use analogies), it's like taking a pacifier from babes, a cigarette from smokers. Then of course the wailing ensues but the youngin' will get over it soon enough.

I'd hate to say it, but bring in a 'Messiah' with new teachings. It's the only 'patch' I could think of that won't cause a system shock to devout followers of their 'faith'. Thank you.

reply to post by pikypiky



Allright, but I'm gonna stick with JC....if you sift properly, you can SEE his message clearly...known Him for over 35 yrs, my best friend, healed my son, could go on and on....OT wishes you all the best!!!

Oh no, now see this is where it gets bad.. The Bible in itself was picked through and deciphered by man in particular one named Constantine. In essence the dawn of the word “Arian” was derived from an argument about what should and should not be placed in the bible.. (Not at all race related by the way). See, I believe, that was selected to be the Holy Bible was manipulated text to gain control over the uncontrollable populous of the time.. You’re talking the Roman Empire that wanted dominion over the Celtic/Pagan societies of N. Europe and put them in fear by mean of eternal destruction, even though, many aspects of the Bible have Celtic origin including any reference to the tree of life, genesis and the “fallen Angels” etc.. A matter of fact the Bible reflects many different stories, cultures and religions. I look at the Bible like a script that has been edited many times by people manipulating its meaning in order to serve their own purpose.. It has some great information and wisdom but you have to pick through the mess and seek the basic truth that IS the point. I truly believe that the truth of God lives in you, in the heart and soul of man – what you know to be truth and righteous. I would not allow people the irresponsibility to simply judge and interpret one text to decipher the essence of humanity. Just my opinion.

I do not need hope or believe in something. In contrast - I need to know things. Either I know or I don't know. I haven't met the god, so I don't know if it exists.

Every time I see someone who says he/she believes in something it makes me wonder what I could make her believe in if I would try hard enough

[edit on 3-2-2009 by FIFIGI]

I was raised Baptist all my life (which by the way is very confusing to me that there are so many different specialties and beliefs. We all have the same book. If what is inside is to cryptic for everyone to agree on then is it a tool for good? or manipulation?) I don't think that SOME of what is in the bible is bad. It just bothers me how easy it is to manipulate.

Doing good to others is a GOOD thing. Not stealing, killing, or lying are GOOD things. But not accepting people because they eat meat, or are gay, or are a different color...? Am I missing something here?

I hear a lot of people say that god is divine and he has a plan. How about the plan for the girls between the ages of 1-5 getting raped by 10 and twelve men at a time in parts of Africa? What's gods plan for them? How will there HORRIBLE treatment and ultimately death further gods plan? Especially when there is a way to have everyone in the world choose to follow god without breaking the whole free will thing he set in place.

If I was a god, the god, God, and I wanted my plan to be divine, I would NOT move people across the world like it was a game of risk. I would not HAVE to have an anti-christ before I return, things would not have to be the worst they've ever been before i fix it. My plan is so simple that EVERY ATHEIST I ASKED said if MY divine plan was done, they would instantly follow me.

IF I am GOD, and I can do ANYTHING. All powerful, all knowing, everywhere at once... I would make myself 5000 stories tall, part the clouds with a Japan sized hand and have everyone in the world be able to see me. Whether through x-ray vision through they're home or maybe just by clearing my 500 story tall throat and say, "I am God. Follow me."

THATS IT. Everyone would jump on board. But he can't do that. Because he doesn't exist, at least, if there is a deity, he doesn't exist in the way you imagine.

Watch ZEITGEIST to get the story of where the man, the myth, and the legend came from

-Ronin

reply to post by FIFIGI

HaHa! Ya if you’re an unrighteous individual you can convince many people of many things for self-benefit, sure.. People are generally willing to believe many, strange things but FAITH essentially conquers false idealism because it provides inspiration.. You cant do that with self-admiration.. Sorry but convincing people to see your way for your own reasons is but a small empty hole in the scheme of life..

reply to post by Thistled


I started a similar thread not too long ago Thistled, only mine was more centered around trying to show through logic that the Bible cannot be the word of a perfect God.

The Bible is filled with lot's of strange things, God is smiting people, children are being beaten, Jericho is being wiped off the map, the whole human population aside from one family is horrifically drown in a Flood, talking snakes, etc. But amidst all the weirdness there is some wisdom and that's what we should get out of the Bible, take what wisdom you can and leave the stuff that makes no sense alone.

Faith is necessary, because it acts as a psychological buffer about things we don't fully understand, things we're afraid of. We're afraid of death so we imagine an after-life. But religion takes that fear too far, it's used to instill guilt, supports wars, tyranny, prejudice, genocide (remember manifest destiny?), etc...

So we need to ditch religion, not necessarily the Bible, but I agree that some people need to wake up and smell the logic, there may be some wisdom in the Bible but its a far-cry from being the "Word of God"...

You cant ditch truth. You cant ditch what is always existing. God will always exist weather you like it or not. You cant ditch what has come to pass. You cant stop Jesus being the savior or the coming revelation. Jesus Christ is coming. God is Coming and you cant stop the truth.

Originally posted by AdmiralObamaGFOL
Very sad that people who know nothing about the Bible or God for that matter think that it is perfectly acceptible to insult and defame Christians and their beliefs.

Mind pointing me toward someone who DOES know ANYTHING about "God?" Allow me to remind you, people who pretend to know about "God" will not suffice.

Originally posted by AdmiralObamaGFOL
These types of posts really accomplish nothing. The Bible will remain the best selling book ever printed, and millions of people will continue to read it and grow closer to the living God.

This type of response accomplishes much less then the topic at hand. Nonetheless, the Bible is the best selling & most read book ever printed because of it's credence, which has absolutely nothing to do with it's fictionality.

Originally posted by AdmiralObamaGFOL
I challenge the writer of this insulting post to take the time to read the entire book and then possibly ask some intelligent questions about the beliefs of Christians and their first-hand experiences with God.

I don't believe the writer was intending to insult anybody with his OP. It was you who chose to become a "victim" by your own close-mindedness. Nobody is trying to insult you by offering an opinion that might be different from yours. Relax...

Ready? I've read the entire book. I've asked and researched some very intelligent questions about the beliefs of Christians as well. To begin with, there's no proof of anybody having any type of "first-hand" expirience with God. With that said, I'll leave the rest of the research with you.


- Strype




[edit on 3-2-2009 by Strype]

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by pikypiky

 

Allright, but I'm gonna stick with JC....if you sift properly, you can SEE his message clearly...known Him for over 35 yrs, my best friend, healed my son, could go on and on....OT wishes you all the best!!!

Really? So... you son's body didn't heal itself then? You're saying a plain, normal human being (because that's all he was, a human being - nothing more or less - he was made in to the son of 'God' by human decision some 300 years later) dead for almost 2000 years healed your son? Sounds a bit mad to me.

I think your son's own body and immune system and repairing facilities did that. Mine do that. So do my neighbours. And the cat, too.

And none of us believe in Jesus being anything more than a very charismatic human. Especially the cat!

[edit on 3-2-2009 by noonebutme]

Originally posted by akjen
reply to post by FIFIGI

 

Sorry but convincing people to see your way for your own reasons is but a small empty hole in the scheme of life..

Which is what the bible and some Christians do, especially those who are born again.

Just by questioning and asking such a question I am slammed with quotes from the bible. I mean, what? Quotations from a book will not change my viewpoint.

Originally posted by huckfinn
Are you talking about Religion or the Bible? You seem to have created a tapestry here, interweaving two things that are not necessarily together.

The bible IS (or represents) a religion. Erm, like your thrown.

where does the bible say if you don't accept it, it is a sin? I've never read that.

There are references in the OT (yes I know - OT) which more or less state such. When I think about your question I am compelled to say, it's the followers who say I am a sinner.

Now genocide springs to mind. (All because of what is in a book)

When I see kids as young as 3 standing in the pi**ing rain with a placard saying "die fag" - I think it's time to admit the book to hospital for some serious surgery, a radical overhaul. It needs to be rid of all the nasty stuff.

[edit on 3/2/2009 by Thistled]

Originally posted by Thistled
I know this will probably upset a few people and I apologise for this....

Is it not time to ditch the bible?

When your read some of the passages in Leviticus, it makes you wonder and indeed question 'the word of God'.

Some will argue, the book of Leviticus is ancient, and reflects the society of the time. It all kinda changed after A.D.

But seriously, disobedient children should be killed, disabled people not allowed in the temple of God, if you are ill, or have a skin condition you are not welcome in the temple of God. There is so much in the book of Leviticus that is jaw dropping. Damn right nasty, and mostly unacceptable in todays world.

Ditch the bible - it's quite nasty, and it adds fuel to the fire of hatred and discrimination. No place for that in todays world.

You are advocating censorship of something you don't understand. You have obviously not researched the hard sayings found in scripture.

The world can keep it's porn. I'll keep my Bible. No censorship. Deal?

It is the selfish desires of people that fuel the hatred and discrimination. It has nothing to do with the Bible. The Bible shows us how corrupt we are, and many don't like being told that.

The outward reveals the inward.

Originally posted by slymattb
God will always exist weather you like it or not. You cant ditch what has come to pass. You cant stop Jesus being the savior or the coming revelation. Jesus Christ is coming. God is Coming and you cant stop the truth.

I think god was created by those in power, early man would look to the stars and wonder "what is up there"? "Why is it there"? (Can't answer - too primitive)
People naturally die, early man must have wondered 'why'? (Can't answer - too primitive)
Look it has rained and the crops grow? Wow! (Can't answer - too primitive)

Soooo, some bright spark comes along with an answer to all. It's god! God! God! God!
Whatever the question, god is the answer - problem solved.

Ah yes I get it now, people die (look up to the stars) and that is where they go, heaven. They go to heaven because erm......that's where god is and that must be why we die, because it is time to go to heaven.

Now if you are a good boy and don't cause any trouble today, you will also be allowed to join everyone else in heaven (when you die). But you dare question any of this, or throw stones at your grandma again, and you will go to hell. (Fear)

So it all makes sense now, primitive man has an answer and understands what the very essence of life is, and how to die is cool, cuz you get to meet the big man.

Which is even better for those who want to "control" people, because you now have a tool for whipping ass into shape and it's also a great tool for controlling your people.

To me, I think this why we have a bible, but guess what peeps, it's not working.

When you look up to the stars, that is not heaven, that is space. All those little twinkles you thought (with your primitive mind) were loved ones, are in fact stars.

God is helping my crops grow, - no that's because it rained and you are planting the correct crop for this part of the world, and if the weather systems stay good, they will be ok.

When we were a little more primitive, and didn't really know much, we used "god" as the answer, that helped to maintain order from chaos, so everything is ok now, god is 'why' etc.

Now we as a species are a little bit more advanced and can answer all of those questions, and guess what, there is an explanation for all, and it is not god.

IMO.

Originally posted by John Matrix

The world can keep it's porn. I'll keep my Bible. No censorship. Deal?

This is the second time sex has been used at the first sign of weakness in an argument.

Why do 'believers' do this? You always bring sex into the equation.

Obsessed.

This will be interesting to talk about tomorrow.....

reply to post by Thistled


That's strange, up until this very moment, I thought the Bible is composed of 66 separate works that were bound together and adopted by the Christian church, but that the church is not the author of any of the books. But now I know that John, who wrote Revelation, knew that his book would become the Anchor of the Christian Bible. Wow, that guy really did see the Future!!

So, the individual books that make up the Bible are nothing more than works of "divinely inspired" literature, poems, prophecy and legal treatise; I guess we all learn something new everyday.

The Throne I built however is based on the interaction of fundamental forces; it is a theoretical application of my own theory of Quantum Gravity. With the Throne, I can control the physical field we all live in and play nasty little tricks on bad people. But the Book of Genesis was helpful during the construction; I figured why reinvent the wheel when an absolute Genius already provided me with one.

But what I think is far more important to remember is that Freedom of Religion is a Constitutionally guaranteed right and privilege of each American citizen. "Ditching the Bible", as you put it, would necessitate a Constitutional Amendment. To change the constitution you'll have to convince ME that it should be changed.

I am not certain that American's want to hear what a citizen of the United Kingdom thinks we should do with our Constitution, Our traditions and Our Laws. You should bring this question to the floor of your own parliament first, before polluting our world with such non-sense.

So, just as I thought, its Not the Bible that stated this, but some person you once spoke to? Interesting. Not reading or believing in the Bible, church or Religion is not a sin and you're not going to Hell because of that...Do you feel better?

If you're going to Hell, you probably already know what for.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by huckfinn]

[edit on 3-2-2009 by huckfinn]

Originally posted by huckfinn
reply to post by Thistled

 

I am not certain that American's want to hear what a citizen of the United Kingdom thinks we should do with our Constitution, Our traditions and Our Laws. You should bring this question to the floor of your own parliament first, before polluting our world with such non-sense.

Since when did America and it's constitution represent the world Huck?
Even your constitution has amendments. Well? Maybe it's time to amend the bible.

Is ATS exclusively for the United States? If so, I will gladly cancel my membership and look for a similar forum, but there is no other site I am aware of that is as cool and diversified as ATS.

I never said outlaw it Huck, you want to idolise it, fine do that, your constitution enables you to do that, and I don't have a problem with that.

Don't misconstrue the simple question, Is it not time to ditch the bible?

[edit on 3/2/2009 by Thistled]

Most of the world's Constitutions provide a provision for Religious freedom and they based this on the US Constitution. Apparently, someone saw the day when Fascist Atheists would attempt to deprive the world of its freedom and I can see that day has now come.

I can't say that I am surprised though...that a Citizen of the United Kingdom has taken a lead role in this endeavor. You guys stand alone as the only nation to ever enter the Capitol and burn down America's symbols of freedom. Congratulations on that, I guess you're back to finish the job.

Originally posted by huckfinn
Most of the world's Constitutions provide a provision for Religious freedom and they based this on the US Constitution. Apparently, someone saw the day when Fascist Atheists would attempt to deprive the world of its freedom and I can see that day has now come.

I can't say that I am surprised though...that a Citizen of the United Kingdom has taken a lead role in this endeavor. You guys stand alone as the only nation to ever enter the Capitol and burn down America's symbols of freedom. Congratulations on that, I guess you're back to finish the job.

Provisions for religious freedoms had to do with preventing religious tyranny,
which they'd just left behind, not worrying about being denied freedom from some future Fascist Atheists.

The day has come!? Our freedoms are in peril again by the Brits via some ATS discussion? oh noes.

Well, at least we've got the Throne as backup.