Jett Travolta. Death by Scientology?

Because of his Kawasaki, I would assume his body was really sensitive to things in the environment. So there is always the possibility that he was allergic to chemcials in other seizure meds. Like some lady on another thread said: she was allergic to like 5 seizure medications, including depakote. But we won't know until the autopsy is done.

Allergic reactions such as rashes are less common with Depakote than with most other seizure medicines

www.epilepsy.com...

[edit on 4-1-2009 by Pocky]

reply to post by Terapin


I find it to be real sad, and my respects go out to JT and his family. I dont liek to believe things like this, but I am not ignorant to the fact it's possible. I hope it was not that, an was what i had read in papers.

Condolences to John and his family have come in from around the world, and that outpouring of love and shared grief can only help the family in this difficult time they are going through. Anyone who has seen all the pictures posted by the family, of John and jett together will obviously see the unspoken love they shared with each other.

One thing I am trying to follow up on is the timeline. Currently they have reported that Jett was last seen entering the bathroom sometime after 5:30 PM and that he was found at 10AM the following morning. That doesn't seem right somehow, and at this point I will assume it is an error in reporting. After all Jett supposedly had round the clock monitoring by his nannies due to his medical difficulties and frequent seizures.

reply to post by Terapin


I have spoken with several autistic individuals who do not see autism as a problem but as a gift. Interesting that you pointed out "Sonya" and her avatar being Blade Runner because I spoke to an autistic individual who felt as though the movie Blade Runner accurately portrayed what it was like to be autistic. He hated the idea of "curebies" who would change diets (Jenny McCarthy), and his main problem with Scientology wasn't the drug issue, but the fact that Scientologists looked down on the autistic.

I feel bad for the Travoltas, regardless. If they did directly contribute to the death of their son they will have long years ahead of them. If they did not they will still have the grief and anxiety that comes with a million "what ifs". No parent could sleep wondering if they had only checked in on him one more time. No parent. They would have to be monsters, and very few humans are that, to not look to themselves and their own culpability in this matter.

As far as warning people away from Scientology I think the celebrity Scientologists do a fine job of it on their own.

His death has nothing to do with Scientology. anyone who tries to make a connection is plain ignorant..

I'm sure Jett was cared for very much. I'm sure John Travolta would have done anything within his power to do what was best for his son.

As far as Scientologists being against Psychotrophic drugs, I wholeheartedly support them in their fight. I have never seen Psychtrophic drugs do anyone any good, ever. And I have had members of my own family take them.

As far as Scientology being a some kind of money-crazy cult? Ok, how about you guys who think this; tomorrow, go to work and tell your boss you want to work for free. Tell your boss, you don't need money.

For god's sake, what are Scientologists supposed to do, work for free and live in cardboard boxes? Everyone needs money on this planet to get the things they need to survive.

Donation rates in Scientology are quite fair for what you get. Try to get that much value from an over-priced poison selling Psychiatrist. I have seen more positive change occur in a few hours of Scientology, than in many, many hours of Psychiatric "care." That's the truth. I don't think you make any gains going to a Psychiatrist; you actually go backwards instead of forwards.

I took the book, "Self Analysis," applied it to a guy several years ago. In maybe an hour and 1/2, or so, this guy, who started out as kind of rigid and not so happy, started laughing about things, and started to relax. He was sitting right in front of me. I know what I saw. This was not "smoke and mirrors," this was real.

And, no, Scientology doesn't bar you if you don't have a lot of money. Many people do what is called co-auditing. So, basically you could have two people who train and apply Scientology to each other. It's very cost effective.

You may choose to believe all the negative stuff printed on this thread, but trust me on this, I'll bet that some people who are posting here don't really care if you get the truth.

I do.

All some people want to do is spread chaos, lies, and stuff like that. They want you to be fearful of things. They cannot be trusted with information, much like the media, such as CNN, and Fox News.

And then there are some people who are just thoroughly misled, and don't know any better.

I'm sorry that some of you guys are mis-informed. Believe what you want, but the truth lies within the pages of a Scientology book. "Self Analysis" is a good book to start with, if you really want to know what Scientology is all about. The investment for paperback is minimal, and you might just get some good things out of the book. There is a good chance a book store nearby sells it.

Troy

As a mother of 2 I do believe no parent would ever knowingly make a decission which is not in the best interest of their child.

Regardless of their believe, they have lost their son - I hope I will never be able to say that I know how that feels. Having had an ectopic pregnancy I can only imagine the pain you feel loosing your child after 16 years - knowing the pain I felt and still feel upon loosing my baby after 9 weeks of pregnancy.

Scientologists don't believe in modern medicine. And cardiac arrest cannot be classified as seizure.

Scientologists don't believe in modern medicine. And cardiac arrest cannot be classified as seizure.

Originally posted by cybertroy
I'm sure Jett was cared for very much. I'm sure John Travolta would have done anything within his power to do what was best for his son.

I believe that, too. Most parents who love their children try and do what's best for them.

As far as Scientologists being against Psychotrophic drugs, I wholeheartedly support them in their fight. I have never seen Psychtrophic drugs do anyone any good, ever. And I have had members of my own family take them.

Humans are not one size fits all. Maybe you've never seen anyone helped by them, but I have. I had a cousin who was suicidally depressed to the point of an attempt on her own life. Today she is fully functioning and happy thanks to Zoloft (yes, an anxiety med). My best friend was also depressed and listless for many years. She resisted Prozac for the longest time, but one day she couldn't deal with trying yet another diet program (she was an every day gym goer, too) and now she's the person I knew in high school again.

Your experiences are your own and I don't doubt them, but you should understand that everyone's body chemistry is different and what works or doesn't work for a single individual may not be true of others.

As far as Scientology being a some kind of money-crazy cult? Ok, how about you guys who think this; tomorrow, go to work and tell your boss you want to work for free. Tell your boss, you don't need money.

Big difference here. That's work. Scientology is supposed to be a religion. If I don't put money in the collection plate at Mass no one stops me or my kids from going to RCIA. In fact, I can not only utilize all of the Church's programs for free, but I can also take money out of the poor box.

For god's sake, what are Scientologists supposed to do, work for free and live in cardboard boxes? Everyone needs money on this planet to get the things they need to survive.

Exactly. That's why Scientology should act like other religions and not charge or just ask for whatever donations someone can give. You are incorrect to say that they do not have prices for their classes that are fixed. People unable to pay are made to work it off and not always in the best of conditions.

Donation rates in Scientology are quite fair for what you get. Try to get that much value from an over-priced poison selling Psychiatrist.

So, Scientology is psychiatry now? I thought it was supposed to be a religion. Hmmm. And you cannot put "rate" and "donation" in the same sentence. Donation is at the discretion of the tither. You may suggest a donation, but if someone doesn't pay it you can't refuse service and still call it a donation. You are talking "fees" then.

I have seen more positive change occur in a few hours of Scientology, than in many, many hours of Psychiatric "care." That's the truth.

Good for you. I sat on the phone for multiple nights with a kid in Scientology that wanted to kill himself. If Scientology worked he would have been the happiest lad on the planet. Sorry, but this is personal to me as I am well aware of what Scientology did to him. It made him feel like there was something wrong with him because the tech didn't work for him.

I don't and won't criticize individual Scientologists because I know that most humans are pretty cafeteria style with their religions, but I will criticize any absolute dogma that refuses to bend for the suicidally depressed. If only he had gotten the help he needed...

I don't think you make any gains going to a Psychiatrist; you actually go backwards instead of forwards.

And yet some of us have. Again, one size does not fit all. Some of us have gone forward. I went to therapy for depression dealing with my childhood. I was not prescribed meds. I was told to take an hour and a half a day to write or ride horses or do whatever, but something quiet and just for me. If psychiatrists were everything that the COS says they are they would have tried to dope me up.

Didn't happen.

I took the book, "Self Analysis," applied it to a guy several years ago. In maybe an hour and 1/2, or so, this guy, who started out as kind of rigid and not so happy, started laughing about things, and started to relax. He was sitting right in front of me. I know what I saw. This was not "smoke and mirrors," this was real.

I see this happen with people that smoke pot, too. Happy. Relaxed. Fully functioning. I also see it happen with people who ride horses or go hiking. It also happens at comedy clubs. I think you said it best. Laughter. That's the best medicine.

However, what do you tell a kid who was molested by family members? What do you tell him when the tech doesn't work? What do you tell him when he is so depressed and lonely and has no more money or free time?

I know what Scientology told him, and I know what happened to him because of it.

And, no, Scientology doesn't bar you if you don't have a lot of money.

They took what little my friend had and then put him to work nights. How exactly do they propose people getting better with no sleep. Between work, school, and Scientology he had no time to sleep. How do you propose that someone get better without sleep?

Look, obviously you like Scientology and I guess it works for you. However, it does not work for everyone. It does cost a lot of money. I know of several people who have either been in Scientology, took classes, or are Scientologists. They are very nice people. This is why I get bothered by what the Church does to them. If this is a church and not a MLM then they would get free services with donations at their discretion like every other church. The audits would be sacrosanct like a Catholic confessional. They would tell them the whole story of Xenu prior to joining. I mean, can you imagine if people waited until you were ten years into Catholicism before talking about the resurrection or the healings? Full disclosure should come immediately. Also, RPF's (punishment) should be more inline with the whole say a prayer or be good to your neighbor, not send people into manual labor because they took prozac.

Sorry...I just have nightmares sometimes thinking about that kid that I stayed up with, knowing what they did to his head. Maybe it works for you, but understand it does not work for everyone.

Originally posted by Terapin
Autistic individuals have difficulty with, Social interactions and relationships, Verbal and nonverbal communication ( Jett apparently could not talk), and Limited interests in activities or play.

Ahhhhh...I did not realize he was that bad. Somehow I thought because they were "denying" he was autistic it seemed like it was probably mild.

If he was not talking, then I agree he should have received therapy. I worked with a woman that had an autistic teenager (could not speak either) and apparently in some cases they can become violent as they get older.

That lady refused to put her son on medication because she said the drugs simply slowed them down and made them easier to handle. She said she had know other autistic kids who refused to take their meds as they got older and then they sometimes became violent and impossible for their families to manage because they had always relied on drugs. If that happened she feared her son would be impossible to control (he was already 17 years olds and over 200 lbs).

why is everyone so against scientology?

turn that knife around and point it at christianity.

they are into scientology because it makes sense to them. its no more a cult then any other religion, yeah, even christianity.





from what ive read on scientology, it actually follows one of the oldest known religions found on the planet. so if its a cousin of the original (only because its the oldest known) religion.....how is it so crazy?

people disgust me. let them do what they want, believe what they want. oh, you dont agree? guess what, they, nor anyone else gives a #.

ohhh those pesky scientologists, are all crazies and whack jobs. and you cant say that about any other religion...oh #..wait...YOU CAN SAY THAT ABOUT EVERY RELIGION / BELEIF

so get off your high horse and mellow out # people.

reply to post by cybertroy


BTW Troy...

I know that I sounded a bit snarky and angry, but I have some very personal experiences with Scientology and Scientologists that have informed my opinion. I have read portions of Dianetics. I have even downloaded the tech from Freezoners for free. I read portions of it, read through the exercises that are meant to get people to be able to withstand bullbaiting and found it not only unhelpful, but rather spooky and mind-controlish. The Alice in Wonderland exercise was too much for me.

However, obviously it did something for you and that's good. I would hate to think that anyone belongs to a religion that they get absolutely nothing from. Hopefully, on your regime of diet, supplements, and exercise you are leading a happy and healthy life. I want that for you and everyone else in Scientology. I mean that.

What I hope you understand is that your experience with Scientology is not everyone's. Some people experienced terrible things and can bring proof from the church dogma that shows it is institutional, rather than a misapplication of the tech.

The same is true of any religion. There will be people that benefit from it and people that do not. I know a lot of former Catholics that have nothing good to say about the church. I will admit to knowing people who have had terrible experiences with Catholicism, but that was when the Gospels were misapplied by individuals as opposed to being embraced correctly.

When I hear people talk about the Catholic Church in hateful terms, when they relate their experiences I don't discount the experience. I will just say it is not mine. If I shut my ears to the problems then I have no capacity to elicit change. It is the duty of laypeople to work within their churches to make them better.

There are things that go on in Scientology that perhaps are not your experience, but are true nonetheless. I would say the same to the more ardent Scientology critics--that while they do not have good experiences with the COS, other people may well have them.

For example, I would bet that Tom Cruise does not have any experience with RPFs. I would bet that he does not know what goes on at the Sea Orgs or that the Free Winds had asbestos. This is why I cannot in good conscience as a Catholic continue to berate Tom over on IMDB. I don't know what's in his heart, I don't know his experiences--for all I know he might actually disbelieve all of the negative stories because his experiences were different.

I know I am rambling now, but I wanted to get this out there. I respect you as an individual, I respect your personal account, and hope that you continue to have the same experience with Scientology ten years from now that you do today. I hope that you also respect those who do not share in your positive experiences as I respect the stories of those who say that they were abused by priests. If I did not, if the Catholic laypeople had ignored them or written them off then the changes in my church (two adults must be present at all times when working with children, background checks on priests, defrocking, etc) would not have occurred.

Best of luck to you!

Originally posted by 30 Seconds
ohhh those pesky scientologists, are all crazies and whack jobs. and you cant say that about any other religion...oh #..wait...YOU CAN SAY THAT ABOUT EVERY RELIGION / BELEIF

Nooo...there really are differences. Some people like to use the term "cult" to describe any religious group they don't like, but in reality TRUE CULTS operate on very specific mind control principals. There maybe a lot of whacko religious beliefs out there, but the hallmarks of a TRUE cult are clear.

True cults like the Moonie's, Scientology, Jim Jones group etc... tend to have their members devote themselves to LIFELONG slave service. True cults practice extreme methods of mind control i.e. sleep depravation, food restriction, intense peer pressure, isolation from non-cult member family and friends.

Anytime a group says they will help you with a supervised program to to "purify/detox your body" and "work through your emotional issues" that usually means restricted protein diet and severe emotional stress along with sleep depravation. THAT is mind control plain and simple. Though be warned some will NOT say it is diet related, but if they are providing all of the food and somehow preventing the guests from leaving the premises for a high cal meal they can ensure that you won't eat much food, or it will of low caloric content, and it will have the same effect.

Anytime one undergoes a program for "mental and physical" cleansing, especially retreats, it is always a good idea to take along a BIG jar of peanut butter. If things get weird peanut butter can make the difference between losing your marbles and keeping your wits about you.


[edit on 5-1-2009 by Sonya610]

Jett had parents who loved him more than we'll ever know. I for one dislike Scientology and would try everything possible for my child. There's no walls or barriers when it comes to treatment or a cure for my kids. But I can't sit here and say that John and his wife were wrong and that Scientology killed Jett. There's no facts to support that. My heart goes out to the Travolta family and I wish them the best with their lose.

Originally posted by 30 Seconds
why is everyone so against scientology?

www.whyaretheydead.net

That's a good place to start for why a lot of people are against it.

turn that knife around and point it at christianity.

Please see innumerable threads on why Christianity sucks. This one is about Scientology.

from what ive read on scientology, it actually follows one of the oldest known religions found on the planet. so if its a cousin of the original (only because its the oldest known) religion.....how is it so crazy?

I've heard Scientologists compare Scientology to "eastern" religions, however, I am completely puzzled by this. Buddhism and Christianity in their canons endorse pacifism and turning the other cheek. Scientology has a policy of "attack, never defend". Buddhism does not prohibit the use of medication. Buddhism does not require a "check out" if you wish to "leave". Scientology does. Buddhism does not "declare" people "suppressive". Scientology does.

There are many differences--so many that I don't see the similarities beyond they both call themselves religions.

people disgust me. let them do what they want, believe what they want. oh, you dont agree? guess what, they, nor anyone else gives a #.

I agree that people should be allowed to choose whatever religion they like and be left alone about it. I think people should be allowed to take drugs, too, if they like and be left alone about it. People should be allowed to harm themselves--it's their body.

My concern is that children usually don't have choices. So I think that Scientology and other religions/religious sects that refuse medication do need some sort of monitoring when there are sick kids involved. Children don't really have the option of saying: Gee, I'd like to have that anti-seizure medication. They usually go with whatever their parents choose for them.

Still...being a civil libertarian I have trouble saying that because it is a slippery slope when you start to mess with parental rights. That's why protesting and enlightening people to potential dangers is a good thing. It keeps the government out and society involved.

ohhh those pesky scientologists, are all crazies and whack jobs.

Two words: Juliette Lewis.

Ooops!

Hey! What is a religion without a wackjob? It's no fun, I'll tell ya that. What would Christianity be without Pat Robertson?

Look, I don't care who jumps on couches. I don't care if Scientologists choose to get married to cover up their homosexual tendencies. I don't care if they practice the tech over and over and over again. Adults should be allowed to practice whatever religion they choose, or not practice it. I don't care if someone wants to worship a melon. If it makes them happy, I say go for it. What I don't like is when they pump money into targeting doctors for medical malpractice that maybe do not deserve it.

If they leave me alone, if they quit trying to remove my choices (access to psychiatry or access to medicines) I will ease off with my criticism. If they want the ability to make choices that other people disagree with they ought to allow others the same. Scientology has been actively targeting and protesting psychiatry for years and now they cry foul when the same happens to them.

I suggest they take a note from that ancient religion they supposedly follow...karma is a bitch.

Apparently there will be more information of the autopsy come Tuesday, heres what I have found thus far.

Released 10 min. ago.

Autopsy results expected for Jett Travolta

A U.S. pathologist will be in the Bahamas Monday to assist in the autopsy of the only son of actors John Travolta and Kelly Preston.

CBS News Correspondent Mark Strassmann reports that Monday the Travolta family may know the early results of the autopsy - and learn what killed their teenage son Jett.

www.cbs12.com...

You do know that all fanatical followings are cults until they become accepted with a non-cult status, most famous in the west being Christianity. Its past and present track record of atrocities in its name puts most other cults into the 'little league' as you might say over there? And you might want to look at the 'wacky' health service deaths record every year. I'll repeat for the slow ones, every year hundreds of thousands in the US alone die through taking the correct dosage of prescribed drugs from your 'wacky' health services and hospitals. Sounds like the Travolta’s are far more informed that the people on here. Typical reactions to things that people are frightened of or are just plain ignorant when faced with a differing way of life that deviates from the herd?

I know very little about Scientology but I saw the interview with Tom Cruise, that everyone laughed about and all I saw was a very committed informed individual that was actually speaking as a practising Buddhist might when he described how he reacts to certain situations with informed actions rather than sheeple herd reactions. I guess the laughter was a nervous one because those laughing didn't understand what he was trying to convey (I thought he was spot on myself)?

Education, education, education!

Originally posted by mlmijyd
You do know that all fanatical followings are cults until they become accepted with a non-cult status, most famous in the west being Christianity.

Its past and present track record of atrocities in its name puts most other cults into the 'little league' as you might say over there?

Ahhh, but when people who call themselves Christians commit these atrocities they are doing it in opposition to their dogma, not coinciding with it. Nowhere in the Gospels--I defy you to find it, will you read Jesus telling his followers to judge people, to harm or do injury, to inflict cruelty, to meet violence with violence, with harsh word against harsh word. The most "extreme" thing he ever did was turn over a table with money on it. He certainly never advocated anything remotely close, and in fact quite the opposite, to what has been done in his name.

Scientology, on the other hand, when practiced according to L Ron Hubbard produces the effect which people are decrying as deplorable. You may have the option, and I have done so, to argue with unreasonable and mean-spirited Christians by picking up the Gospels and reading to them. The same would not be true by reading from the writings of LRH.

"The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the Tone Scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170

"A Venezuelan dictator once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 171

"Unfortunately, it is all too often true that suppressors to a creative action must be removed before construction and creation takes place. Any person very high on the Tone Scale may level destruction toward a suppressor." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 159

This is nowhere near "Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."

And you might want to look at the 'wacky' health service deaths record every year. I'll repeat for the slow ones, every year hundreds of thousands in the US alone die through taking the correct dosage of prescribed drugs from your 'wacky' health services and hospitals. Sounds like the Travolta’s are far more informed that the people on here. Typical reactions to things that people are frightened of or are just plain ignorant when faced with a differing way of life that deviates from the herd?

No, I can think that global health is an absolute one-size fits all approach that will not benefit everyone but will benefit the masses and still think that Scientology is not something I would want to endorse. As I've said before I think absolutes on any level is dangerous. Either pro-medication or anti-medication. Individuals go to see doctors and individuals should be treated.

I know very little about Scientology

Hmm. I've done a lot of research on it, including working with someone who was in Scientology and facing suicidal depression. I became his friend after he Fair Gamed me. I did this because I wanted to show him what my religion was about when practiced correctly.

I've downloaded Scientology tech from Freezone sites. I've gone to the Scientology site. I read a good portion of Dianetics (I couldn't get through it because it is a dry read). I've talked to Scientologists who are happy, and those who are trying desperately to leave and still maintain family relationships.

I believe to each their own. I am not going to try and tell an adult what to do or what to believe. I will, however, ask them to return the favor. If they don't like psychiatry, then they shouldn't go to psychiatrists, not wage a war against them using information collected from the Nazis. **eyeroll** They ought to be fair, but that's another story.

They ought to allow the rest of us the option of choosing medication IF we feel it is best for us.

but I saw the interview with Tom Cruise, that everyone laughed about and all I saw was a very committed informed individual that was actually speaking as a practising Buddhist might

Uhhh, no. Practicing Buddhists don't wish a world with no non-Buddhists in it, and don't name call non-Buddhists "SPs"/Supressive persons.

when he described how he reacts to certain situations with informed actions rather than sheeple herd reactions. I guess the laughter was a nervous one because those laughing didn't understand what he was trying to convey (I thought he was spot on myself)?

According to Scientologists, the only people who would understand what he was saying was another Scientologist so I am not sure how you could know that he was "spot on".

I will give you this tho. I used to post on IMDB until I got sick of the non-stop hating on Tom Cruise. He's an adult. He made a choice. His choice and public condemnation of Brooke Shields and others came back at him and I believe he paid for it dearly at a time when he desperately needed to keep his career on track. In other words...karma. However, to keep at him non-stop, making fun of his height, his nose, his laugh etc was just beyond what is reasonable in "getting the word out". It got so bad that I was playing devil's advocate and actually defending Tom.

John Travolta lost a son. None of us can know what that feels like. Also, none of us having lived with John Travolta can say for sure what he and Kelly did or did not give Jett. I think it is wrong for us to second guess them as parents unless we've lived in that house and saw firsthand that they were left untreated.

A few people die from medication. A lot more are relieved by it. There is a strong sense of betrayal that comes when something that is supposed to help or do good (priests or teachers that harm children, vaccines that cause serious adverse events) does harm. Even if the chances are good that the medications will not harm, it does not take the pain away from someone who loses their child to them. I get that. If you don't like meds, don't take them. Just allow other people that same choice.