Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Isaiah 53 justmomma ..stop redirecting and please just answer the questions about Isaiah 53 .........
My questions are not about Isaiah 49 ...But Isaiah 53

Prove that it WAS Jesus! NOt by the new testament.. but by the Tanakh. G.d never leaves us in to fill things in.. He states straight out everything when it comes to prophecies so that we do not question HIm.

So, using the Tanakh.. prove that He was talking about Jesus.

This will require you actually reading from the beginning to the end which you obviously have not done or you would not believe such nonsense.

AND if you had, you would clearly know WHO it was talking about. It had nothing to do with the world as is clearly stated at the beginning of Isaiah.

You just pull out what fits the lie that you WANT to believe.. but that does NOT make the lie the truth.

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by John Matrix

 

This is retarded. You don't understand because you only take the end of the book to base your beliefs on.

Who the hell reads the end of a book and then filters out only what fits from the beginning? it is stupidity at its finest JM.

I am a daughter of G.d. That does not make me THE ONLY begotten daughter of G.d.

G.d CLEARLY STATED who the only begotten Son is ... not once, not twice, not three times.. but NUMEROUS times in the Tanakh.

You are making this up that Jesus was the only begotten Son because G.d said otherwise (or don't base your belief on the Tanakh anymore .. it does not support this foolish paganism).

No ACTUAL VIRGINS miraculously gave birth.
NO blood sacrifice to cover sins
No man on a mountain actually receiving the the 10 commandments personally from G.d.

THEY ARE METAPHORS!!

Even most of the Jewish people will say this.

Only the pagans believed the surface as fact.

G.d does not break laws.. man does.


edited to fix the 2nd to last line. Just am baffled by how logic escapes people!!

You asked me to show you where Jesus said he was the Son of God. You did not ask me to show it to you from the OT. You quoted the NT, so did I.

A personal relationship with the Father and the Son awaits you. Untold miracles and Spiritual growth awaits you. Transformation awaits you.
The mind of Christ awaits you. Eternal Life awaits you.

Shed your pride today, Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God and He will lift you up.

Originally posted by John Matrix
You asked me to show you where Jesus said he was the Son of God. You did not ask me to show it to you from the OT. You quoted the NT, so did I.

A personal relationship with the Father and the Son awaits you. Untold miracles and Spiritual growth awaits you. Transformation awaits you.
The mind of Christ awaits you. Eternal Life awaits you.

Shed your pride today, Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God and He will lift you up.

I thought I had asked where he said he was the only begotten Son of G.d. But you are correct. Went back and checked. My mistake. So.. can you tell me where he said he was the only begotten Son of G.d because I don't doubt that he is a Son of G.d which could be worded the Son of G.d just as I could easily say I am the daughter of G.d and be correct (and I have stated this numerous times in this thread.. just before I get accused of changing my tune.. I am not).

Where does he claim or where is it declared that *he* is the only begotten Son of G.d?

[Even most of the Jewish people will say this]

Which is exactly why they rejected him ..which is why they shouted crucify him.
They believe that they are the Messiah ? If that is so then no wonder they wanted Jesus dead ................

And they would crucify him again right now if he came in the same lowly humble state that he came in the first time....

No worries ..when he comes again ..there will be no denying just who he is and what authority he has ..or doesnt have .....


This is what the Jewish people are looking for in a Messiah ..
What About Jesus?

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the moshiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the moshiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.

On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the moshiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a moshiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the moshiach.

Throughout Jewish history, there have been many people who have claimed to be the moshiach, or whose followers have claimed that they were the moshiach: Shimeon Bar Kokhba, Shabbatai Tzvi, Jesus, and many others too numerous to name. Leo Rosten reports some very entertaining accounts under the heading False Messiahs in his book, The Joys of Yiddish. But all of these people died without fulfilling the mission of the moshiach; therefore, none of them were the moshiach. The moshiach and the Olam Ha-Ba lie in the future, not in the past.
Biblical Passages Referring to the Moshiach

The following passages in the Jewish scriptures are the ones that Jews consider to be messianic in nature or relating to the end of days. These are the ones that we rely upon in developing our messianic concept:

* Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20
* Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39
* Ezekiel 38:16
* Hosea 3:4-3:5
* Micah 4
* Zephaniah 3:9
* Zechariah 14:9
* Daniel 10:14
www.jewfaq.org...

Of course their Messiah will be a conquering King ....(which Christ will be that when he comes back ) ...but until then there is another (who is coming in his own name NOT IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER LIKE JESUS DID) ..
And he is also coming as a conquering King ...and will also allow for the Temple to be rebuilt ..this man they will accept as their Moshiach ..(at least until he tells them to outright worship him as GOD) ..........

Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
(((he will exalt himself with the I am god or ..you are god mantra .)))

Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
(((((((((he will not honor any god because he believes himself to be god ))))

Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.(((a God of forces are weapons of warfare )))))))))

Dan 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge [and] increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.


Everything they are expecting in a Moshiach (Messiah )..is everything that describes the Antichrist to a tee ..

The Moshiach

The moshiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The moshiach is often referred to as "moshiach ben David" (moshiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the moshiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person's lifetime, then that person will be the moshiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the moshiach, then that person is not the moshiach.
www.jewfaq.org...


Notice that are even saying that the Moschiach will be just a mere man ..
And can be anyone ..(EVEN THEM) .....

This is why Justamomma is so confused .....


He will fool them ...but not for long ..midtrib he will show them who he REALLY IS >.....they will see eventually .....PRAYING FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM >>>>..




[edit on 17-1-2009 by Simplynoone]

THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD >>>>
Right here Justamomma ...

Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession.

Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in him.


And here
Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

What is ONLY BEGOTTEN ?MEAN ?
NO ONE ELSE IN SCRIPTURE anywhere says they were the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ....except when it was about JESUS CHRIST >>.
1) single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)

b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God

reply to post by Simplynoone


Simplynoone:

Good for you! Very good post. I agree with every word you said. I just hope justamomma hears what you are saying.

I liked all the Scripture verses that you used. I enjoyed reading it very much.




Peace to you,
Grandma

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by John Matrix
You asked me to show you where Jesus said he was the Son of God. You did not ask me to show it to you from the OT. You quoted the NT, so did I.

A personal relationship with the Father and the Son awaits you. Untold miracles and Spiritual growth awaits you. Transformation awaits you.
The mind of Christ awaits you. Eternal Life awaits you.

Shed your pride today, Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God and He will lift you up.

I thought I had asked where he said he was the only begotten Son of G.d. But you are correct. Went back and checked. My mistake. So.. can you tell me where he said he was the only begotten Son of G.d because I don't doubt that he is a Son of G.d which could be worded the Son of G.d just as I could easily say I am the daughter of G.d and be correct (and I have stated this numerous times in this thread.. just before I get accused of changing my tune.. I am not).

Where does he claim or where is it declared that *he* is the only begotten Son of G.d?

There is a distinction between the Son of God and Sons of God.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
Believers are all Sons of God, but none of us are The Son of God.
I suppose you will have to find out the distinction for yourself by researching the language.....cuz I'm tired....LOL

reply to post by Simplynoone


Wow! You are really putting in overtime on the research and bible reading.
Nice Job. did you get my U2U?

Originally posted by John Matrix
There is a distinction between the Son of God and Sons of God.
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
Believers are all Sons of God, but none of us are The Son of God.
I suppose you will have to find out the distinction for yourself by researching the language.....cuz I'm tired....LOL

Please tell me you are kidding me. You believe that a man was born from a virgin and you want me to believe that you have done anything to really understand the language? Surely you are talking about the language of the pagans, correct?

JEWISH PEOPLE are LOVELY story tellers.. and that is what those were. The reason it was done that way is SO you would NOT worship an image or a man as god!!

G.d does not break laws.. man does.. and yet your version has Him breaking not only the very basic of laws of nature, but using the sacrifice of man to save you from your pathetic little self.. getting you out of feeling any bit of guilt for the vile way that you treat others.

You believe in a man and were you to find out that it was nothing more than a story to depict something about us inwardly, your blind faith would be gone.. destroyed.

Knowledge is what G.d wanted us to have.. He gave us that and expected us to be LOGICAL AND SANE enough to not actually worship the characters in the stories.

Gah! It is scary to know that dogmatism is held to so tight in this world still. No doubt you will be first in line to slaughter the first person who says you are an idiot when you have the freedom to do so. After all, you and Simplynoone have condemned people to an eternity in hell for merely trying to give G.d credit for being brilliant in His set up of knowledge.

WE ARE NOT CAVE MEN!!! We are capable of understanding truths w/out believing that a man was born of a virgin.. IMPOSSIBLE! We are big boys and girls ya know.

From an educated point of view, you belong back in the cave worshiping your rock!

[edit on 17-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Simplynoone:

Good for you! Very good post. I agree with every word you said. I just hope justamomma hears what you are saying.

I liked all the Scripture verses that you used. I enjoyed reading it very much.




Peace to you,
Grandma

Not even a chance! See, I have been there and I have seen what blind faith does to people.

It gives people a sense of superiority over others.

It makes people feel they have the right to say you are wrong without any CREDIBLE and LOGICAL sense to back it up.

It allows you to condemn others to an eternity in hell all because they made a mistake or because they encourage others to seek the truth.

It kills to cover guilt.

It kills to silence those who love Truth more than security.

It starts wars.

It is anything BUT peaceable.

It is threatens anyone who dares to question.

It is lies!

It is foolish!

It will push us back into the stone age if it continues.

It is not loving!

It is not light!

It is NOT of G.d and to say otherwise is to say G.d is oppressive and cruel.

It takes pleasure in the sacrifice of a man!

It actually believes silly fantasies like a virgin could bring forth a child.

It does nothing to help eliminate the darkness in the world ..

And does everything to make it darker!

Grow up.... Did your parents not teach you that Santa Clause was a lie and this is the reason you accept stories as fact??

YOu miss out on the beauty and knowledge that is contained in the Scriptures because you believe the lies of a man.

Get out of the dark and step into the light already! I promise.. it doesn't hurt too bad and once you do, you might wonder why the HELL you would ever have stayed naive for so long!

reply to post by Simplynoone


And do you have ANY CLUE who the Son is referring to simplynoone? you do not because you do not search. YOu already have your mind made up based on one man's lies.

I will show you WHO G.d declared His Son... AGAIN. It requires common sense and some real logic though to grasp the CLEAR WORDS!


Exodus 4:22,23. Here's what it says in there: "Israel is My son;
so, let My son go, that he may serve Me," says the Lord.

"When Israel was a child, God said, out of Egypt I called My son." (Hosea 11:1)

And Ezekiel speaks exactly how Israel became His begotten AND annointed Son...

thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite. Funny, because I don't remember Jesus being born of an Amorite and Hittite.

This is silly. It is like believing the Ugly duckling really walked around crying to others about how ugly he was.

It is a story depicting a truth about ourselves! That is what Israel was!! An example. Jesus was an example.. not someone to be worshiped! My 5 and 7 yr. old have more sense than most of you. Then again, I don't lie to them... look at what it has done for grown adults... G.d is brilliant and you all deny that and make Him seem like an babaric who can change the rules on us at any time. It is a shame to even base your blind faith on such a beautiful piece of work like the Tanakh.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
[Even most of the Jewish people will say this]

Which is exactly why they rejected him ..which is why they shouted crucify him.
They believe that they are the Messiah ? If that is so then no wonder they wanted Jesus dead ................

You are one to talk! Don't sound so innocent there simplynoone. If he hadn't done it, would you be quite so loving to him? If your false perception of his blood covering you were taken away, what then? Would you still love G.d? I would feel SICK if G.d allowed a man to be killed in my place as a sacrifice... fortunately I am not quite so stuck in the babaric mind set and understand the WORD and the story! If I believed that G.d would allow for such a thing, I would shun that god.



[edit on 17-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
The following passages in the Jewish scriptures are the ones that Jews consider to be messianic in nature or relating to the end of days. These are the ones that we rely upon in developing our messianic concept:

* Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20
* Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39
* Ezekiel 38:16
* Hosea 3:4-3:5
* Micah 4
* Zephaniah 3:9
* Zechariah 14:9
* Daniel 10:14
www.jewfaq.org...

Messianic Jews is nothing more than a Jewish form of the Christian cult. Most of them have been raised in America.. you know.. the land of make believe?

The blinding of the eyes of the Jews has a two fold purpose ..
One is SCRIPTURE had to be fulfilled ..the other is we were invited in due to their unbeleif ........and even a third is they at least will not worship the Antichrist because he is just a man and he will demand to be worshipped..........this will be when that VEIL is removed ...at least for some ...................................(scriptures at the bottom) and will also be the time of Jacobs troubles (notice the reason why he blinded them was to provoke them to jealousy ..they truly are jealious of the fact that God reached out to the Gentiles ) ...they will go along with the Antichrist till midtrib..until he declares himself to be god ...then the veil will be removed ...GLORY BE TO GOD >..


Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

Mat 12:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Mat 12:19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

Mat 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

Mat 12:21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

Luk 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Luk 2:27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

Luk 2:28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

Luk 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

Luk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

Luk 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

Luk 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles and the glory of thy people Israel

Luk 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this [child] is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;


Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.]]]]]]]]]]]]]

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

(((((((((((((GENTILES PAY CLOSE ATTENTION HERE))))))))))))))
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


2Cr 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.

2Cr 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

2Cr 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Wow! You are really putting in overtime on the research and bible reading.
Nice Job. did you get my U2U?

One hour does not = overtime on research

Try since well over 15 years of serious study! Then we'll talk.

Try learning and striving to understand the people's views that the Scriptures originated from.. then we'll talk.

(and trust me.. the above is not easy because they are TIRED of all this pagan nonsense that has made a mockery of their Scriptures and G.d. I doubt you would gain even 5 minutes of their attention with your foolish talk)

Try abandoning it to really test if it is true, then we'll talk.

Try ACTUALLY READING IT, then we'll talk as though you have actually researched it with your whole heart.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.]]]]]]]]]]]]]

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

(((((((((((((GENTILES PAY CLOSE ATTENTION HERE))))))))))))))
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


2Cr 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.

2Cr 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

2Cr 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Spoken like a master manipulater and brainwasher! What a heart of love, huh? Can't you just feel it

Justamomma Ok messianic or not ..I thought you might be of them,but guess your a Jew for Judaism ..
Here is what they say ..It is not much different

FROM THEIR WEB SITE >>
Did Jesus fulfill ALL these criteria?
The Jewish tradition of "The Messiah" has its foundation in numerous biblical references, and understands "The Messiah" to be a human being - without any overtone of deity or divinity - who will bring about certain changes in the world and fulfill certain criteria before he can be acknowledged as "The Messiah".
First of all, he must be Jewish - "you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)
He must be a member of the tribe of Judah -"The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet" (Genesis 49:10)

To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.

He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever" (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)

The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of Jesus?

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)

At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was DESTROYED! Just the opposite of this prophecy!

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)

Have you seen a newspaper lately? Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?

He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)

The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)

there are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold.

All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.
Certainly NOT Jesus.
jewsforjudaism.org...

Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Melachim XI - XII.

The King Messiah will in some future time come, restore the kingdom of David to its former power, build the Temple, bring together the scattered of Israel, and all the ancient laws will again be in force. Sacrifices will be offered, and years of release and Jubilees will be kept as prescribed in the Torah. Whoever does not believe in him, or does not hope for his coming, shows a lack of faith not only in the prophets, but also in the Torah. For the Torah testifies concerning him in the words: 'And the L-rd your God will again bring back your captivity, and show mercy unto you, and again gather you from all the nations...If your outcasts be at the ends of the heavens, from there will the L-rd gather you...and the L-rd will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed...'(Deut. 30:3-5)

You must not imagine that the messiah must prove his messianity by signs and miracles, doing something unexpected, bringing the dead to life, or similar things. The principle thing is this: the statutes and precepts of our Torah remain forever, and nothing can be added to them or taken from them.

If, therefore, a descendant of David earnestly studies the Torah, observes what the written and oral Torah enjoins, causes all Israelites to act similarly, exhorts those who are lax in the performance of the commandments, and fights the wars of the L-rd, he may possibly be the messiah. If he does not succeed, or is killed in war, it is certain that he is not the messiah promised in the Torah. He is like all the other noble and good kings of the House of David who have died, and God only caused him to rise in order to try us thereby, as it is said, `And of the wise some will stumble, and through them the people will be tested, purified, and made white, till the time of the end comes; for there is yet a vision for an appointed time.' (Dan. 11:35).

Also, Jesus the Nazarene, who imagined that he would be messiah and was killed, is alluded to in the book of Daniel, as it is said, `And the sons of the transgressors among thy people will rise, in order to establish a vision, and will stumble' (Dan. 11:14). Can there be a greater stumbling then this? All the prophets said that messiah will be a redeemer and a savior to the Israelites, will bring together their outcasts, and will strengthen their obedience to the Divine precepts, but he (Jesus) caused destruction by the sword to Israel, the dispersion of those left, and their humiliation. He changed the law, and misled many people to worship a being beside God.

But the thoughts of the Creator of the universe cannot be understood by any human being, for the ways of men are not His ways, nor their thoughts His thoughts. For all the events connected with Jesus, and with Mohammed that rose after him, served only to pave the way for the King Messiah, who will reform all mankind and lead them to the unanimous service of God, as it is said, 'For then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that all may call by the name of God, and serve him unanimously' (Zeph. 3:9).

How can this be done? Almost all people have through them (Jesus and Mohammed) become acquainted with the idea of messiah, with the words of the Torah and the Divine precepts. Through them the knowledge of the Bible spread even unto the remotest islands and unto many nations 'uncircumcised' in heart and uncircumcised in flesh. These nations seek to justify their disobedience to the precepts of the Torah. Some of them say that these precepts are Divine, but are not in force at present, and were never intended to be permanent laws. Others maintain that they must not be taken literally, as they are mere symbols, the meaning of which has already been explained by their 'messiah'. But when the true King Messiah will rise, he will prosper, be high and exalted. All will then at once know that it was falsehood what their fathers have inherited, and that their prophets and their teachers have misled them.

It is not because they desired to have dominion over all lands and nations and be honored by all people, or because they desired to have plenty to eat and drink and other pleasures, that the wise men and the prophets longed for the days of the messiah, but because they would then be at leisure to study the Torah and its teachings without being interrupted by any oppressor, and would thus make themselves worthy of life in the World to Come.

There will not be in those days any famine, war, jealousy, or quarrel, because the good things will be in plenty and even luxuries will be found everywhere. All people will busy themselves with trying to know the L-rd. Therefore, the Israelites will be great sages, knowing things which are at present hidden. They will obtain a knowledge of their Creator as far as possible by human understanding; `For the earth shall be full with the knowledge of the L-rd as the waters cover the sea.' (Isaiah 11:9).
jewsforjudaism.org...
Keep in mind that the verses they are quoting are for the SECOND COMING of Christ which was why it seems he did not fulfill them .

Originally posted by Simplynoone
The blinding of the eyes of the Jews has a two fold purpose ..
One is SCRIPTURE had to be fulfilled ..the other is we were invited in due to their unbeleif ........and even a third is they at least will not worship the Antichrist because he is just a man and he will demand to be worshipped..........this will be when that VEIL is removed ...at least for some ...................................(scriptures at the bottom) and will also be the time of Jacobs troubles (notice the reason why he blinded them was to provoke them to jealousy ..they truly are jealious of the fact that God reached out to the Gentiles ) ...they will go along with the Antichrist till midtrib..until he declares himself to be god ...then the veil will be removed ...GLORY BE TO GOD >..

The vail is more thick than it was when the Scriptures were allowed to be kept in the hands they were given.

And that is BS Simplynoone.. the only one who appears jealous are the Christians who have destroyed anything beautiful that G.d was doing with the Jewish people.

G.d loved and still loves His people. It is so funny how you all completely take His chastisement to the people and twist to make it ugly and then rape and steal everything from them (or at least you think you will).

Seriously... you don't see the intense love He has for His children because you are filtering through Paul's perspective.

You don't even see that Jesus CLEARLY SAID He came for the lost sheep of Israel.. NOT THE WORLD!

You don't see the beautiful story.. you have stolen it and twisted it into something ugly!

reply to post by justamomma


All right ...now you just stop right there ..Get off of Grandma ....She has known the Lord WAY longer and possibly better than I ever have ....She knows HIM TOO >..so dont even start attacking her ...Just because YOUR MAD AT ME >

And stop with the name calling ..IT IS very UNBECOMING of you ....or any GROWN WOMAN ...
go take a breather .......your starting to get very ugly ..........

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by justamomma

 

All right ...now you just stop right there ..Get off of Grandma ....She has known the Lord WAY longer and possibly better than I ever have ....She knows HIM TOO >..so dont even start attacking her ...Just because YOUR MAD AT ME >

And stop with the name calling ..IT IS very UNBECOMING of you ....or any GROWN WOMAN ...
go take a breather .......your starting to get very ugly ..........

Tsk Tsk! Way to show the typical hypocrisy that is so well associated with those of the Christian cult. Way to shine that Paul light bright! Lest you lie, shall I mosey on through the thread and pick out some of your lovely and kind words to badmedia and myself?

The innocent act isn't working as well as you think it is. Funny how you can't take what you dish out.

[edit on 17-1-2009 by justamomma]