Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

reply to post by Simplynoone


Okay... so he saved you from yourself. Basically, he gave you a reason to strive to be better here in this life. Nothing wrong with that and I am glad that you are able to focus on him to try and be better a person.



(sorry.. re-read it again, trying to figure out what you believe you need saving from and now I see) I think that is a very good thing. Nothing to feel defensive for there.

By the way.. I always liked that name (your name). Always thought if I had a daughter, it would be one I considered.

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Can you pull up that post?? I have repeatedly said that there is only ONE Savior and that is G.d.

Jesus is *a* savior in the sense of the Word that he sent out, but nothing more. It is the Word he sent out that saves and you don't agree with the Word, so therefore, I don't understand how you think he will save you in any other way.

But Jesus was God incarnate....God on earth in the Flesh. God took on flesh and blood....literally...and God walked among man in the Flesh. He made Himself a little lower than angels by taking on Flesh.
Nothing is impossible with God. When Jesus dies on the Cross, He was literally shedding the human side and He became the risen Saviour we know as Christ. Christ, God, and Holy Spirit are One. Jesus, in his humanity, knew who he was, He knew that his flesh could be destroyed by man, but He also knew that even if His body was destroyed, He would continue to live in the Spirit.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I am with John Matrix ...I would really like to know what new way and what Jesus has told you is the way that Badmedia and Matrix have been told >.
Please do tell .

Jesus doesn't tell me anything, it is the words of the father that I hear. I hear what Jesus heard.

Now Justamomma is different because she does not even think she needs to know Jesus ...so I am leaving her out of this one ..

I don't need to know Jesus. Again, I hear the words that Jesus heard. And this was how I recognized that Jesus spoke the truth. I recognized that Jesus was speaking the same truth that I heard. I recognized that he was saying what I had been saying.

Now, it was the search for truth that lead me to where I got. And as Jesus is the truth, then I can by that see how the search for truth = a search for Jesus. But I certainly did not seek a specific being.

In what I was taught, I was told not to put weight into names and symbols, but to instead put weight into the things that person or symbol stands for. So I searched for truth and the correct way, and so I found it. And then I seen that Jesus was an example of something that showed it.

You know that zeitgiest movie that is supposed to "debunk" religion. Well it had the opposite effect on me. It was a big part of what made me understand these things. Because the truth doesn't change, only the messanger/culture and example that expresses the truth changes.

You two claim to have been elightened by personal revelation that you claim no one else (like us) have not been privy to ..And I am very interested in what these new PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS are ..........
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Where did I mention prophecy. I never said I know the future. And please do not let my own personal revelations be a substitute for your own. Everyone should have their own personal revelations. Jesus says you must seek. But as I explained to you once before, to seek you must question. And the questions you ask are what will get answered. It was the questions I asked that lead me to here. And I am talking about very deep questions.

I can see why they call it a rabbit hole. Because it was very much like a feeling of "falling". It could easily be described a feeling of being uplifted as well, it's just a feeling of movement, but it is all within so I guess it's just a matter of perspective. But the questions and answers started to come by so fast it is crazy. 1 question and answer leads to another. And I could visually see within my minds eye how everything is connected and such, until the point where it became static, no movement at all. Like looking at the movie film instead of the movie. And then it came to the understanding that we are all connected and one. And the furthest I could go was there was only 2 of us. Me and the father. I understood that me and the father were 1, but I could not "see" that, as if I did then the son will enter the father and then the son no longer exists as the son, because the limitations are gone. IE: To see god face to face means that this reality is no longer possible.

As I said before, the most I can do is try to get people to see and ask the questions that lead to my understanding. I can not give that understanding myself. It's the difference of looking at the roller coaster and describing the roller coaster and actually riding the roller coaster.

Because Jesus has not ever told anyone in any dream or vision that I know of my own or to any believer that I have ever met ...to not read the WORD ...in fact everything Jesus has taught me HAS NOT ONE TIME CONTRADICTED the word ..and was CONFIRMED IN HIS WORD as I read it (Even in Pauls writeings) ..NOT EVEN ONCE >>.and I dream constantly ...
I have even had two angels sit on my bed one night and told scripture to me (what I was not understanding ) they helped me understand it ...

I was never told not to read the word. I was never told to do anything. I was only shown the truth. I have only ever told you that I myself did not learn from the word, but that I seen that Jesus repeated the things I learned. But I am not going to take the word of man over the word of god. If what I learned and the bible do not match, then I am not going to take the bible over direct contact.

Even the scriptures in Romans that yall feel so offended about I UNDERSTAND >...and I can be about as Anti Government as anyone .
I do know though that God put them there for a purpose (They are in charge for a reason)..and if we walked around disobeying the laws of the land and thumbing our noses up at the law etc ..it sure is not being a good example as a believer in the Lord God of heaven .Neither would it be a good example to our children we are raising (which would all end up as TOTAL REBELS who would not even respect adults,laws ,God or even me as a parent ) if that was the example I set for them ...........
I do believe in exposing Government corruption ...(which is not the same as cursing them and thumbing my nose at them and flipping them off etc which is what those scriptures are talking about ) and I dont like seat belt laws etc ..But I will wear them because I dont want to pay a ticket for not wearing them ...wearing a seat belt is NOT GONNA HURT ME ..neither is not speeding ..etc .............and If I went about disobeying Cops,the Government and Rules of the land ...they would surely put me in jail ..What kind of an example is that being if I am a Christian ??????
And as I have said before ..IF they ever tell me I have to get a chip in my body ..or if they come up with a law where I have to get a mandatory abortion or whatever .or if they say I must worship the Government or all hail to the flag or whatever .......I WOULD REFUSE >>.and go ahead and get put in jail for that (Because those are laws of the land that are CONTRADICTORY to GODS LAWS ...no doubt about it and I would rather face jail than face God for obeying something that was against him ) ...................

And you all know thats what those scriptures are talking about ...so stop using them to say Paul was working for the POWERS THAT BE ...he certainly was not or they would not have KILLED HIM TOO >>.like they did Jesus and the rest of the Apostles ................

I can justify and give reason for evil as well. I understand why evil exists and so on. But that doesn't mean because I understand why they exist I must agree with them. Nothing makes a white dot stick out more than a black background, and I can understand that, but I am still going to choose the white dot.

Also, pharisees were often killed as such. They were very strict and morale people, make no doubt about that. Considered the most morale in the land. Many times they died for their beliefs.

reply to post by John Matrix


If you said that to be funny, it was! Thanks for the laugh

I was saying that though in regards to your last post to me about Simplynoone. Good catch of my wording.. just thought I would let you know that I had already corrected it to reflect my intent a little more clearly. But thanks for being on top of the ball here. Dont know how this thread would have turned out with out you. One can only assume.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by justamomma]

reply to post by John Matrix


Jesus was the Son of man. You will see others who were at times the Son of man as well. Difference with Jesus was once the Word was in him, unlike the other prophets, it stayed with him until his mission was complete.

He was not the only begotten Son of G.d. He never says he is; though he is part of the only begotten of Son of G.d and he talks of the only begotten Son of G.d.

reply to post by badmedia


What translation of the Bible do you hear from the Father when He speaks to you...... since you say that you hear the same words that the Father spoke to Jesus?

Originally posted by John Matrix
Exactly, The basic Gospel message is so simple a 6 yr old child can understand it. That's the starting point for unbelievers.

What we have here are people that are trying to make sense of Spiritual things without ever having experienced the rebirth of their Spirits.

Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Therefore, Humble yourself under the Mighty Hand of God and He will raise you up.

FALSE!

If you believe in Jesus, then you will do as he says. And if you do as he says, then you will be saved. It has nothing to do with believing he is god, and that god raised him from the dead.

Or would you have me believe that you can't believe for the very works sake?

And this is why I dislike you Christians. Because you tell and spread the lies of Paul. You sell the easy path that is broad and destructive. As if this is all you need to do, and in the process you get people to walk a path that is different from Jesus, and you do NOTHING but pay him lip service, but your heart is far away.

What you are telling people to do is pay lip service, and then not do as he says. You take his entire life and make it as if it had no purpose.

NEVER, NOT A SINGLE TIME does Jesus say anything close to your claims. Instead he repeatedly says YOU MUST WALK THE PATH. He doesn't tell the rich man to just believe in him as you do. He tells the rich man to walk the path.

Your path is so broad that even the rich man is able to get into heaven. You directly contradict Jesus when he says it is easier to a camel through the eye of a needle than it is to get a rich man into heaven. But yet, under your broad and FALSE path, even the rich man gets in easily.

You have bought a lie.

reply to post by John Matrix


AMEN JOHN >>..STAR for ya for sure ..

I think this post was awesome for a few reasons ..One is maybe no one has changed anyones minds who did participate but it sure did give others who read it something to think about and study for themselves if they are unsure ..... ..and maybe they could change their minds ......you just never know do you ...

There was alot of INFO and scripture and insight (really on all sides) that was brought up in these conversations ...and I believe everyone can learn alot from all the intellect (both carnal and spiritually minded) from everyone who posted in the thread ...

I will give you that Justamomma ....good will come from a thread like this ..I have no doubt ...as all things work together for good for them who love the Lord and are called according to his purpose ..........

Thanks for allowing me to continue to participate on your thread ..and for putting up with me lol ....

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by badmedia

 

What translation of the Bible do you hear from the Father when He speaks to you...... since you say that you hear the same words that the Father spoke to Jesus?

And just like the rest of Pauls blind followers. You speak of a personal relationship with god, but you don't allow for it. Just as I said before, because you lack such a relationship, you must replace it with the bible. As if a personal relationship with God means you will have someone read the bible to you.

It is called understanding. Because I understood the truth, I recognized and understood the truth Jesus was speaking.

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Jesus was the Son of man. You will see others who were at times the Son of man as well. Difference with Jesus was once the Word was in him, unlike the other prophets, it stayed with him until his mission was complete.

He was not the only begotten Son of G.d. He never says he is; though he is part of the only begotten of Son of G.d and he talks of the only begotten Son of G.d.

Why not see if Mathew Henry or one of the well respected commentators can reconcile this issue you have about Son of Man and Son of God.
There are lot's of good commentaries on the Net.

reply to post by John Matrix


The understanding has been covered already. But hey, thanks for the concern.

hmmm?

[edit on 11-1-2009 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by badmedia

 

What translation of the Bible do you hear from the Father when He speaks to you...... since you say that you hear the same words that the Father spoke to Jesus?

And just like the rest of Pauls blind followers. You speak of a personal relationship with god, but you don't allow for it. Just as I said before, because you lack such a relationship, you must replace it with the bible. As if a personal relationship with God means you will have someone read the bible to you.

It is called understanding. Because I understood the truth, I recognized and understood the truth Jesus was speaking.

Well......How do you know what Jesus said then? You told us you know what Jesus said is true because it's just the way God revealed it to you.
So you had to use the Bible too check it out, so why condemn me for using it.

I was just curious as to what version you heard when you confirmed what Jesus spoke to be true, and what version you used to confirm this.

Anyway, never mind.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by John Matrix]

reply to post by Simplynoone



Absolutely! I benefitted from this thread no doubt and don't regret starting it one bit. I am, as I have always been, very grateful to those who, with a sincere heart for knowlege, have lent their time and energy into giving their views.

reply to post by MatrixProphet

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by L.I.B.

 

You know the rest. We are each responsible for ourselves, yet somehow we are to be our brother's keeper too.

The age of Christianity is coming to a close, and I am so ready for it! The new that is coming will not be a "new truth", it will be an everlasting truth made more understandable.

I agree that the New Truth is everlasting truth made more understandable. And this truth is coming from many avenues and many voices.

Even by those who are standing on the bridge, whose feet have been on each side.

But we agree on many things, and I have enjoyed talking with you and most on this thread!!

Ditto.

Since last night I have been thinking of another Nietzsche's quotes (paraphrased from memory): Against ignorance even the gods themselves rail in vain.

Originally posted by John Matrix
Why not see if Mathew Henry or one of the well respected commentators can reconcile this issue you have about Son of Man and Son of God.
There are lot's of good commentaries on the Net.

You do realize that the "virgin birth" is actually symbolic of when you recognize the father as your only father - thus, not son of man any longer? It is the recognition that your consciousness is what you truly are, and where that comes from.

It's like, if you see yourself as your vessel, then you are son of man. If you see yourself as consciousness/soul, then you are son of god. When I seen myself as merely a person/human, I was son of man. When I realized the truth and seen John 14:20, then that is when I was became son of god instead of son of man.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

That was the day I was no longer son of man.


And btw, as for your "just believe" lies. He never says such, he says what I say, that you will follow him. And over and over again he says this. Obviously it is important.

John 14:
21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


Now, John 14:24 is how I learned. All I ever seen about Jesus was the church, and the church is full of hypocrites. And so that is how I viewed things. Thus why I heard the word of the father, not the word of Jesus. But as I heard the word of the father that sent Jesus, that is why I recognized the truth in what Jesus said.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And this is what happened with me. I had my vision and such, and then I was taught and comforted.

This is the transfer from son of man, to son of god. This is how it happens, just as Jesus says it happens.

Originally posted by John Matrix
Well......How do you know what Jesus said then? You told us you know what Jesus said is true because it's just the way God revealed it to you.
So you had to use the Bible too check it out, so why condemn me for using it.

I was just curious as to what version you heard when you confirmed what Jesus spoke to be true, and what version you used to confirm this.

Anyway, never mind.

As I said before, I don't even know if Jesus said them, or if he is real. I am only going by what I see in the bible. I just know that what is attributed to Jesus having said in the bible is true.

See, I didn't even know this for months after I learned the truth. I spoke about the same truths in my own words. But then some people have pointed out, or I would see a random Jesus quote here and there, and I would be like - YES - That is true, that is what I am talking about.

You just see yourself as being seperate from Jesus. I do not. I see myself in the same struggle as Jesus. And I am sick of people such as yourself who cheapen and mislead people with lies. Here is yet another example of Jesus talking about how those who believe will do as he says. And he says even greater things than what he does can you do - because YOU ARE HIM.

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Wait yall ...I need to know what the new truth is ....
So far what I have gleaned from reading the threads

No need for the bible
No need for the Holy Spirit
No need to read and believe the TESTIMONIES of the believers (those who wrote the bible)Which others testimonies inspire others and teach others a great deal ..................
Oh and no need for Jesus to save you
What else ?

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by John Matrix

 

God is creative, his thoughts are creative, and those with the Holy Spirit are able to know and understand the thoughts of God as he reveals them to us. Thoughts have gravity(law of attraction). The raised Spirit is highly creative because it has union with Christ and God. Our Hearts and Minds benefit from God's creative thoughts. Many historical discoveries and inventions were made by Christians.

No doubt!

Allow me to be creative then! Because you don't agree, does not make me wrong. You cannot say that I have not been divinely revealed many things. It just is the human condition that we want to hear, what we want to hear (I include myself)!

Just like Thomas Edison was a man way ahead of his time, did not make him wrong. He was enlightened sooner than most of mankind. He was USED to accomplish God's will. Can you imagine how he was judged by man? He was crazy, he was a madman, etc.

Here is where we make a mistake: we judge others by our own limited understandings and focus.

NOTE: I have had to alter almost everything I have ever believed in - in order to take on the spirit, and God's information for me. And I might add: I was rebellious at times, doing so. We are in good company.

I don't always do it well or express myself as well as I would like. But the point is: I am doing it!

But I do have reason to doubt your revelations as coming from the Holy Spirit because you have not mentioned how your revelations have changed your ideas of Unity, Love, Forgiveness, Humilty, Patience, etc.

Every man of God(or Godly Woman) that I know who has experinced enlightenment has told me of experiencing pure white light and all encompassing Love and warmth.

All I hear from you seems to indicate enlightenment through a Spirit of Intellectualism which does not come from God.

Is that to say that a Believer cannot be intellectual? Absolutley not, we have the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit to lead us and teach us all things.

reply to post by justamomma


Afterlife? Yes.

For the Believer, the Spirit will live on with our consciousness but no evil thought will pass with us into Heaven.

For the unbeliever, I have no clue what will be left of him since he will have no sprint capable of Living in Heaven. Perhaps there is an eternity of Hell waiting for him, or perhaps his consciousness is destroyed in some supernatural fire....or maybe flushed down a black hole.

I am glad I accepted the simple message of the Gospel when I was 9 yrs old. It hasn't been easy for me, but I know where I'm from and where I am going.