Russian Professor Predicts Fall of U.S. in 2010

I agree. This could never happen that fast. Maybe in 25 years it could happen. If the USA could get through a 10 year recession in the 30's with the resources it had then, it sure as hell can get through the tough economic times it faces right now. In a couple of years we will be laughing at all these USA is going under threads. ~ Tide88

Tide88, I don't know what history books you have been reading, but the USA went through a "Depression" in the 30's, not a "recession," as you called it. And, if our country ever had to face "now" what it did, "then," it would never survive, because we have children who don't give a hoot, our morals have decayed past recognition, so we would be doomed if we all had to stand in "soup lines." I think you need to watch lots of films about how it "really was" back then, and then ask the question, "Could our people cope with this?" I say, "NO!"

Tide88, the "recession" we are going through "now," is NOTHING compared to what our grandparents went through then. Please reread your history! They went through a "DEPRESSION." We could not handle a "DEPRESSION!"

~ Lonelypoet









reply to post by tide88

if any invading army thinks they can possibly win, id like to see them get through south central or brooklyn. The italians would win with baseball bats alone.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Swatman]

Self-evidently, you'll always find people who say 'this is never gonna happen'. If people born in the early 10's and 20's could be asked: 'would you believe me if I'd tell you another world war will happen within two decades?', 90% would say: 'of course I don't believe you'.

Although this professor is utterly crap, he's no clue at all, his theory that the US could cease to exist is very plausible. The Federal government has failed and some states such as California, could do better without a Federal government, in my opinion and once the financial system collapses, they might very well decide to declare independence.

All the other stuff e.g. the Rubble being the new currency for Eurasia is all BS. They are fearing another Rubble crisis in Russia now.

reply to post by ice1300


Judging from the map, he doesnt have a very good understanding of the cultural climates of our states. It is highly unlikely that the Carolinas would have more in common politically with NY than their neighbors to the south for instance. Unless he is suggesting that China, Mexico and the EU and Canada will be given chunks of land based on our loan obligations without the states consent, which is also silly. Mexico would not have a prayer of getting that large a chunk of the US in a deal like that.

I think if the quality of the map is any reflection of the thought he has put into his theory as a whole he just playing up to his countries media and what they would LIKE to see happen to the US. If we ever do really break up, it will be our own doing and the lines will more than likely be along traditional red/blue state lines. Ideological ones, not simply states that happen to be next to each other.

What Americans need to realise that it is this, don't make the mistake of thinking it would take decades for this to happen, what you have to realise is that its been happening for decades already. The how's when and where have been planned for a long time probally since the end of ww2.

America is a big country and you have a population that does not travel, will a Californian care if New York comes under the politacl/geographical area of another country, thats what you have to ask yourselves. For all the we will fight this and it wont happen it dose happen and people in the main don't fight it and those are the facts.

It is more than likely that America's fall from grace ws planned a long time ago or look at it this way, up to ww2 times were good and America was mainly isolationist. Since ww2 its been down hill all the way, costly wars never won continuing as I write, no money, the infastructure falling apart. This cannot happen natuarlly it can only happen if planned that way and it would appear that it has been planned as none of what is happening makes any sense but it dose if you are planning on changing the country.

Those who have run the US since ww2 have taken a very strong country and made it weak, yes you can blab about the militray and all the rest of it but that is just one facet when you look at th whole picture its a different story. The US has been deliberately made weak for a reason so you have to ask the question why.

Originally posted by Swatman
if any invading army thinks they can possibly win, id like to see them get through south central or brooklyn. The italians would win with baseball bats alone.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by Swatman]

what BS is this ?

dont worry chemical weapons will do the job

I remember reading this sometime ago, I thought it was thoroughly entertaining!

However, when predictions were made in the 1970s about the Soviet breakup, the people making those predictions weren't taken seriously. The Soviet Union was seen as being relatively stable.

But, reforms came in, the state lost control, and the Soviet states broke away, a coup happened, all sorts of strife.

I can't vaguely see a similar scenario happening in the US within the year - all states and empires eventually dissolve, but the US will remain for sometime yet.

I guess the Russians are waiting to see what happened to them happen to the US, apparently this professor is very popular there.

The John Titor scenario seems to become more and more likely by the day.
He did mention something about Y2K may have been impacted that could change something in our timeline. This might have delayed the civil war acccording to his date. (Our 2008/2009= Titor's 2004?)

For the war you would want to be in an area with low population density. California and New York would be bad places to be. Possibility of race wars as well. I doubt these types of states would be in the position to form a cohesive government after a breakdown. Texas might do well, it has a large economy and a storied history of independence. Hawaii would be interesting to watch what happens there. Also good chance that the ("south will rise again") sans slavery this time. How many states would join is hard to tell.
I don't think the east coast would fare very well.

Major supply disruptions to oil and gas delivery would affect colder regions disproportionately as well. Certain areas would fall under religious or familiar allegencies (mostly smaller regions). If these groups could successfully govern an entire state post-collapse I would be very surprised. (well except maybe Utah and Idaho)

Thus you would have people fleeing the cities and the rural folks trying to fend them off. Lots of people starving to death. Some cities might not experience unrest and these would become the primary government locations. They would most likely try to regain control over the rural population. Very similar to what Titor described.

This thread started out with a Russian prof's prediction of the collapse and break-up of the US. It would be more newsworthy reporting ther is a Russian prof who DOESN'T predict the US will collapse.

The break up map provided is childish in it's simplicity conforming to nothing existing as far as interstate affiliations. And then the countries these various state clusters will join is based on proximity and nothing else.

This prof demonstrates no knowlege of US poltical economic structures.

And ironically Russia is on the brink of a third collapse in 20 years. So lets get out our carving knives and say the top goes to Canada, the East to China, the West to the Ukraine, etc.

These kind of threads should die of natural causes.


Mike F

The collapse and carve up is going to happen its just a question of when. Just be patient and all will be revealed, you might not like it but it will happen none the less.

Originally posted by Lonelypoet
I agree. This could never happen that fast. Maybe in 25 years it could happen. If the USA could get through a 10 year recession in the 30's with the resources it had then, it sure as hell can get through the tough economic times it faces right now. In a couple of years we will be laughing at all these USA is going under threads. ~ Tide88

Tide88, I don't know what history books you have been reading, but the USA went through a "Depression" in the 30's, not a "recession," as you called it. And, if our country ever had to face "now" what it did, "then," it would never survive, because we have children who don't give a hoot, our morals have decayed past recognition, so we would be doomed if we all had to stand in "soup lines." I think you need to watch lots of films about how it "really was" back then, and then ask the question, "Could our people cope with this?" I say, "NO!"

Tide88, the "recession" we are going through "now," is NOTHING compared to what our grandparents went through then. Please reread your history! They went through a "DEPRESSION." We could not handle a "DEPRESSION!"

~ Lonelypoet

reply to post by tide88

 

I have to agree. I mean, from the standpoint of ignorant American society people might think this is hogwash.. But people don't think about other factors. Alot of things could happen between now and then like

1- A terrorist nuclear and/or biological/chemical attack on American soil (doesn't seem so unlikely when you consider how many nukes the U.S. alone has lost over the years. Not to mention whatever backroom deals have gone on for the purchase of black market nuclear materials between countries).

2- Increasing weather issues resulting in food shortages, drought, wildfires, etc. (which we are already seeing now).

3- Solar activity continuing to weaken out of whack with the Sun's normal 11 year cycle.

4- The earth's degrading electromagnetic field and the fact that we are thousands of years overdue for a magnetic pole shift (which could, technically, happen at any time).

5- The issue of the solar system's protective "bubble" (the heliosphere) also degrading and becoming weaker which, if the current trend continues, could make us more likely to be exposed to all sorts of lethal doses of interstellar radiation from space. There is a whole thread about this one on ATS already that can be found HERE . I posted this in another thead, but it is interesting how the last time we can tell such a degradation of the heliosphere occurred it corresponded with a mass extinction...

6- And then you have all the other natural disasters which could happen at any time. We have a ticking time-bomb in the mega volcano under yellowstone national park (which has seen recent increases in the frequency and power of seismic activity). We have California overdue for another massively destructive earthquake (which some believe could be so extremely huge it could kill millions. 32 million people live in the valley alone). Then we have the issue of increasing size, strength, and frequency of hurricanes and tornadoes in recent years which has been confirmed by modern science..

IMO, Theoretically it would take more than financial disaster to bury this country in that short of a timeframe. But there are countless ways that mother nature or mankind could speed up the process that alot of people don't think about. Take your pick..

-ChriS

Originally posted by magicmushroom

America is a big country and you have a population that does not travel, will a Californian care if New York comes under the politacl/geographical area of another country, thats what you have to ask yourselves.

I dont think the size of our country is really relevant. And I am not certain how you came to the conclusion that Americans dont travel. Not only do we travel interstate, we also have families that are distributed across the entire country. For instance, I am from Hawaii, and now live in New Mexico. I have family in Nevada, Indiana, Hawaii, Colorado, etc. Of course we are going to care if the state our friends and families reside in all of a sudden come under the control of another country.

This isnt Europe. Your EU is brand new. And, you have language and cultural differences that have been in place for generations. YOU might not care if one of your EU states comes under the control of another country, but thats because at this point your Union is economic only. You arent one people. You are many peoples under one umbrella, and you are many peoples that have spent the last couple thousand years knocking the hell out of each other every 50-100 years or so. I can imagine you might not care if someone stole one of your nation-states, but here, we would definitely care.

Americans bicker and fight, but we are one people and we know it. We may have some rivalries (between the north and the south for instance), but we would stand united against anyone who attacked part of us, and then, when it was over, go back to our internal bickering.


This is one of those cases, no offense, where it is clear that you are arguing from your own countries mythologies about America and Americans and have very little actual knowledge about us.






[edit on 11-1-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by mmiichael




ironically usa is debt ridden and like ussr in 1989

[edit on 12-1-2009 by sadchild01]

Has the Russian Professor even been in the U.S.?

Illusion, something like 85% of Ameriocans don't have passports and there are people who live in the South who still hate the Yankee's, get my drift. Size does matter, when 9/11 happened it had a great impact in certain parts of the country but not in others. You have very rich states and very poor states. All this is relevant come the break up of the US.

As the US is in debt up to its armpits what do you think will happen whenit cannot pay the money back. The creditors will come and take whatever assets they can and if that means chunks of America then thats what will happen. its what always happens, and don't tell me Americans wont take it because its been hapening for years and they have been taking it. No country is immune from these processes and again one only has to look at the historical context the World over. What is done can be undone, just as the young America bought and acquired states the reverse can happen. How about selling off Alaska to pay off debts or Hawai, its been done before.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Illusion, something like 85% of Ameriocans don't have passports and there are people who live in the South who still hate the Yankee's, get my drift.

You have people in Scotland that hate the English, and vice versa. There will always be people who dislike other people, but to say that the British would stand by with their hands in their pockets if the Chinese were to come in and claim Scotland as their own is not really reasonable.

And, while it may be a fact that many Americans do not have a passport, we dont need passports to travel interstate. We never have. You can freely cross state lines, there arent any gates or checkpoints that restrict your movement. I know that some of you over there feel very superior because you have traveled out of your own country, but your countries are the size of our states. (Or much smaller in many cases.) In terms of covering geography, many Americans have covered more distance, seen more geographic diversity, and never left their own country. Plus, until recently, we did not need a passport to travel into the countries that neighbored our own most closely.

studenttravel.about.com...

Passports and Western hemisphere travel are an issue because historically US citizens have been allowed to travel between Mexico, Canada, the Caribbean, Bermuda and Panama bearing only US citizenship proof like an "official" birth certificate (embossed with state seal) and a government-issued id (like a driver's license); that's still the case for land travel by US citizens between Mexico, Canada and the US, but the new passport rules require a passport when returning to the US by air from Mexico and Canada and will eventually require a passport or passport substitute when traveling by land or sea.

So making an assumption that because a specific American has never held a passport that they have not left the country, or seen large portions of this country simply isnt a valid one.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Size does matter, when 9/11 happened it had a great impact in certain parts of the country but not in others. You have very rich states and very poor states. All this is relevant come the break up of the US.

You are correct that 9-11 physically had a greater impact on some states, where the planes actuallycrashed, but emotionally I would say you are wrong. Those who actually witnessed the physical event in person are no doubt more traumatized than those of us who watched it over and over on TV, but do not think for a moment that being far from the physical damage meant we did not care. Hell, they sold us a stupid and ill conceived war based on the strength of our emotional response, and some people are still emotional enough not to question that war.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
As the US is in debt up to its armpits what do you think will happen whenit cannot pay the money back. The creditors will come and take whatever assets they can and if that means chunks of America then thats what will happen. its what always happens, and don't tell me Americans wont take it because its been hapening for years and they have been taking it.

Really? What part of Iceland is the UK getting? Show me one instance of a country being parceled out to its creditors. And, show me one instance of Americans standing by while a portion of America was handed over to another country to satisfy debt and I will reconsider my position. Sure, creditors can assume ownership of a business, or a building in America, but that building remains in America, it does not become China if it is owned by a Chinese investor. You do know foreigners own things in your country too, dont you?

Originally posted by magicmushroom
No country is immune from these processes and again one only has to look at the historical context the World over. What is done can be undone, just as the young America bought and acquired states the reverse can happen.

Just because you personally would stand by while your countrymen were overrun by another country does not mean we would. There isnt another country in the world with enough military might to come in and seize our assets by force without ensuring the destruction of their own country in the process. Do you really think world leaders are not aware of that?

And just look to the Ireland, Israel, Palestine, etc., for an example of what really happens when one country thinks they can go in and claim another country as their own. Yeah that would be a good idea to start that sort of constant fighting with a country as big and well armed (and temperamentally inclined to violence) as the US.

Anytime anyone feels froggy, go ahead and jump. I am not personally interested in a war that would tear apart the world, but I assure you I would defend my country with my life if need be.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The US could collapse and it would be arrogant to suggest otherwise.

Collapse due to a massive external or internal attack perhaps but i have a hard time believing that the election of a black man can suddenly make the US split into four regions. Assassinations and large scale social upheavals i can see happening but then i am sure you can too.

Our nation and our freedom have existed for as long as they have because of continuous vigilance and the blood of patriots.

And the last time it came down to American citizens to 'defend' the US was back when the new American elite didn't want to keep on sharing their wealth with Britain. Even then most sat on the fence and a rather small minority actively engaged the British.

The moral fiber of our nation has been weakened over the last five decades or so and we no longer have a populace who is willing to drop everything and go off to war to defend our nation.

The moral fiber of Americans have strengthened considerably as the government are finding it harder and harder to get the American people into wars against people who never did AMerica's people any harm. I am confident that if a real enemy attacked the US Americans would defend themselves as is the norm all around the world.

Do not confuse the fact that Americans do not wish to risk their lives for corporate profit and political agenda's with some inability to serve their country when it truly needs them. It's ironic how i consistently have a higher opinion of Americans than those American citizens who believe that American is bringing 'freedom' to the world trough invasions and economic terrorism.

Fortunately, we do have at this time a sufficient force, but it is disgraceful how they have been forced into numerous deployments, though I commend them all for rising to the call of duty so willingly. We owe them a great deal--more than we can ever repay.

It is a disgrace that a nation can not put it's young men to better work than to kill innocent strangers in foreign countries. The US currently spends about 750 000 dollars to keep a GI in Iraq or Afghanistan and i don't need to tell any of you what could be done to give said GI a better life as well as create a better standard for all AMericans.

As for rising to the call of duty you should take into account the Geneva conventions before commending those in act the of assisting in a illegal occupation.

I am confident that 95% of those GI's would much rather take the 750 000 to buy a home and raise a family than to 'defend' Americans freedoms that they have now mostly realised where never threatened by Iraqi's or Afghans.

America's strength and the strength of our economy is its dymamism.

America's strength is in the weakness of a Europe and Asia largely devastated by two world wars. It used the position of strength to suppress economic and political forces that could make these countries wealthy at the best speed possible while it's own leaders did it's best to suppress similar forces at home. America is a pathetically weak 'superpower' as compared to it's natural resources, land area and population numbers. Comparatively a few are better armed and many, many has citizens that live more economically secure( without losing freedom in the process lives.

If the citizens of the US only knew how wealthy and well defended they could be and that it would demand less work and less sacrifice you might in fact get some breakaway republics.

The Communists have been predicting the demise of capitalism for almost one hundred and fifty years and it has been rising and falling since the beginning.

150 years? The communist? Well right minded democratic socialist have discussed the imminent demise of corporate capitalism for a long time but clearly they overestimated the people and underestimated the power of entrenched money power.

Always teetering on collapse, but always maintaining enough oomph to rise from the ashes of one economic disaster or another.

Teetering on collapse? Capitalism? What you you been smoking? The entire world is capitalist; didn't you notice?

The same can be said for America. Our enemies try to destroy us from within and without,

What enemies? What enemies are there to liberty and economic independence than the corporate capitalist who have been running the US for centuries? It's a fact that THEY have been under siege ( as 'evil' deserves to be) from day one but how can the vast majority of Americans citizens who have fought for and taken back stolen rights and economic power from them be 'the enemies' of themselves? It's just fantastic that people are still so desperately seeking new enemies ( terrorist, these days) when the same old economic terrorist have never been defeated.

yet people keep coming from all parts of the world to find a piece of the dream and in doing so, contribute to what makes America so strong and so resilient.

People do not come to the US because it's fantastic in and of itself but because they believe it's better than where they come from which far more often than not is a simple fact.

America might collapse, but it will be no one's fault but our own.

America might collapse but it will be by either internal money power choices( not social pressures; the central government will give up as much power as i needs to to keep at least theoretical control) or trough the actions of foreign alliances who no longer wish to be subjected to the economic and political terrorism of other countries. In the military arena no such alliance could in my opinion succeed without the Russian federation so it's always good to watch the Kremlin closely.

Incidentally, I would not exactly call four years and the bloodiest war in history a "blink of an eye."

Neither would i but compared to what the next one will involve the second world war might become almost as obscure ( i wonder who would know if we didn't speak of them as world war one and two) as the first is these days.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Where have you been for the last century?
The US provides enormous amounts of aid to nations around the world.

Would you call a man good when he steals ten bushels of wheat and upon discovering that it's causing bad press trough starvation gives one back? I wouldn't and this is generous assumption of aid given as most of the aid given by the imperial powers are in 'credits' which can be exchange for goods bought on their markets; just another subsidy.

Where would Europe be if the US hadn't entered WWI or WWII?

Isn't the question rather where Europe would be if Wall street hadn't supported German rearmament? Either way odds are Europe would be under a German nationalist government. Basically i see a cold war with unified Europe, down to North Africa and possibly Britain against the US and all the current commonwealth countries.

Basically i don't see a radically different world as the tyrants are of much the same flavor. In fact India, China and South America might have benefited from this as such a strong continental power would have stayed the American hand and allowed many more Yugoslavian type social reforms and economic development.

How much of the world would Communism have gobbled up without US intervention?

You're really funny.

Communism had no power to gobble up anything as it was almost exclusively desperately clinging to survival. When i finally reached a point in the mid late 70's where it started to gain strategic superiority it did not immediately, or later, exploit it to 'attack' capitalist because they were capitalist themselves. My problem here is that you , along the propaganda you have been fed, believe that the Vietnamese, Cubans and Chinese where 'communist' when they were nothing more than national liberation movements whose reform and economic goals the US rejected thus forcing them into at least temporary political allegiance with the USSR in the hope of some kind of aid or protection from the worse US national security state outrageous.

As so many have said before the US ( and most empires) creates their enemies from whole cloth as that's the only way for empires to expand if not just to keep their disaffected masses from turning on their tyrannical self appointed leaders.

Stellar

reply to post by ice1300


I remember back in college in the very early 80s that the college professor in my economics class was predicting the fall of the Soviet Union, that came to be as we all know.

So I will never say never because things can happen and an America union like its been in the planning will not end US but it will end the sovereignty of our nation.

reply to post by marg6043


I think you are right in the assumption that we could lose our sovereignty.

I think this could happen two ways, with one being more likely than the other;

1) Some group of idiots could try to start a revolution to oust our government and end up unwittingly opening the door and doing the dirty work for a much greater evil.

2) It could be done with very small, precisely timed changes to our constitution that over time would render the entire thing effectively null and void. There is a saying that a frog will try to jump out if you toss him into boiling water, but will stay in if you slowly bring the heat up until he dies.



I think number two is by far the more likely, because this is the method that is in fact being used as we speak. I just dont think it would be accomplished in one fell swoop, and certainly not by what we perceive as outside forces. If America collapses, it will be an inside job.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I agree, the way our nation is falling economically and how certain groups are been allowed to keep the their wealth at the expenses of tax payer in this nation makes you wonder what is in the planning.

I remember a poster that said on a thread that the powers to be will make life so difficult in America to the point that people will welcome anything that will be thrown at them.

A new currency a new constitution and an America union.

Still is many patriots in this nation that rather die fighting than allowing to be taken for a ride by those that wants to destroy this nation because of greed.

But that is something that we may have to wait and see.

Perhaps the Russian Professor sees the next bail out for the economy in the nation by Obama as the last drop that will collapse the American economy totally.

Just because he is Russian doesn't mean that he can not predict by the actions that are been taken by our leaders in this nation as a sign of things to come.