Alien Domes On The Moon? Let’s Set The Controversy to Rest!

reply to post by zorgon


Nice find Zorgon !

something i noticed in that image....



THAT is a Dome !....... lava ?

Originally posted by zorgon

LUNAR AND MARTIAN FIBERGLASS AS A VERSATILE FAMILY
OF ISRU VALUE-ADDED PRODUCTS

by Gary "ROD" Rodriguez, Systems Architect, sysRAND Corporation

Lunar Regolith consists principally of silicates, in some cases as volcanic or impact glasses. We continue to contend that silicon is more versatile in application than all of the other Lunar available elements combined and shouldn't end up in Lunar slag heaps and instead should be the fundamental building block for a wide range of value-added products in a CisLunar economy. Fabrication of silicate glasses are conventional industrial processes and anticipated tensile strength of glass made under hard vacuum is an order of magnitude greater than glass produced in atmosphere containing water vapor.

The logic employed in our reasoning includes the fact that any In Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU) effort is going to yield copious masses of silicon oxides which can be used in bulk as conventional glass products or, after further separation, can be synthesized as Silicon and Silicon- Carbide Fullerenes for more exotic applications. Additionally, mechanical wrapping of Silicon Webbing could prove to be more practical and durable and a lot less brittle than attempting large scale hot glass molding of structural components.

Identified fuel production ISRU efforts yield partially heated masses of metal oxides as waste byproduct – rich in silicates and metal oxides useful in bulk as conventional glass products. Fiberglass manufacturing increases effectiveness of prior ISRU fuel production by taking advantage of mineral benefaction and elevated process exit temperatures. The resulting structures would be spheres and cylinders with various configurations that could apply to human support systems, along with structures useable as storage tanks for the very Oxygen liberated in ISRU applications.

ISRU can manufacture more than fuels: even spacecraft are feasibly and affordably manufactured on Moon based upon fiberglass "tankage" integrated with fiberglass keels. Second generation structural components may take advantage of Silicon Nanotubes for additional composite strength. Diverse products for human systems support are manufacturable in-situ using glass fibers and fabrics, and CNC-type programmable manufacturing delivering state-of-the-art flexibility of remote design and parts manufacture. These concepts suggest extensibility and evolutionary capability derived when machining tool parts from fiberglass.

Contemporary Terrestrial industrial composite fiber products range from pressure vessels to lightweight sporting goods. A large number of products related to human systems support can similarly be manufactured in-situ using fiber fabric made from lunar silicate glass. Building structures using spun glass would be similar to those currently employed by Raytheon Aircraft or Scaled Composites to build composite aircraft. Pressure containers, structural components, woven fiberglass fabrics, molded and machined solid objects, glass fiber and filament are each large classes of value-added products.

Now there you have it in BLACK AND WHITE from a symposium paper (this is merely the ABSTRACT) on Lunar Colonization from LPI (Lunar and Planetary Institute) the guys who are planning the current return to the Moon and Mars initiatives.

Get your heads out of youtube or whereever else you have them stuck and try just a little real research before shooting from the hip.

I colored in read some words in that quote from one sympozium.

And you see that these are CONCEPTS.

Now, is logical that people to think to the future when planning next steps. I don't think we will go to the moon, and, there, we begin to think what to do. No, this steps are meticulous planned, and, many ideas and "terabits" of thinkings has to take place before any big expensive step to follow. This is the purpose of diverse groups, sympoziums, money spend to sustain those brainstorms etc.

Now, what is the real link of these legitimate processes to the topic "alien domes on moon"? I think it is a bit more forced here. Using a legitimate fact (sympoziums planning the future) as to push some extraordinary claims = alien domes on the moon. Extraordinary claims must have indubitable and clear evidences, not forced ones.

Originally posted by depthoffield
And you see that these are CONCEPTS.
Extraordinary claims must have indubitable and clear evidences, not forced ones.

Good grief Charlie Brown

You DID realize that the post was in reply to a question on what is the point of glass structures... why would they bother?

The paper of future plans shows that indeed they DO consider it worthwhile. And even describe the addition of carbon fibers is that the STRENGTH of glass created on the moon is many times that on Earth...

At the very least it shows viability...

Be a debunker all you want...
Stick your neck into the ostrich hole all you like..

But don't be stupid. And take of the damned blinder and see what is going on around you.




[edit on 26-1-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by depthoffield
Are you laugh at us, Zorgon?

No only you

Those are not scratches... if you would do some research... but then aw never mind... enjoy your bliss

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by zorgon


Nice find Zorgon !

Thanks easynow... but it wasn't exactly a 'find' Jack has been part of Pegasus from the beginning and the Tsiolkowsky crater area has been one of our main features.

Enigmas on the Moon
A Journey of Discovery
by Jack Arneson
The Secrets of Tsiolkovsky

www.thelivingmoon.com...

I think YOU will find his video quite interesting... Its in .wmv and 36megs so be patient It just wouldn't be right in youtube crapovision

www.boomslanger.com...






[edit on 26-1-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Now this is a sign of your Civility & Decorum. May i give you a star for that?

Originally posted by zorgon
But don't be stupid.

Do my best.

Originally posted by zorgon

You DID realize that the post was in reply to a question on what is the point of glass structures... why would they bother?

The paper of future plans shows that indeed they DO consider it worthwhile. And even describe the addition of carbon fibers is that the STRENGTH of glass created on the moon is many times that on Earth...

At the very least it shows viability...

So what is the point of glass domes? To be shattered by meteors?

Anyway, the speaker of sympozium said only that glass manufactured in moon conditions (vacuum) has more strenghth than earth one. So, has some advantages:
- prime material is in situ available
- final characteristics are better.

Does this means that "let's built kilometer in size domes" to make laugh by those damn meteors who strike the surface with such a power to make big craters?

Your ideas are a bit ... more ...too ... forced. Black on white!

Originally posted by zorgon
Those are not scratches... if you would do some research... but then aw never mind... enjoy your bliss

You should look better to the original image:

Original Hi-Res image here AS15-94-12741H

Those pathces are much more sharp that the rest of the photo, which is magnified to see the grain, so above the resolution of the film. As sharp as those dots and hairs and linear scratches on the film due to processing.

As i myself developed photo films, i know some tricks there.

Those looks good like scratches.

And, what the moon mistery researcher does?
It magnifies a lot the scratches.
Magnifying it, can be good for observing better some details, but it interpolates, so it ADDS NEW INFORMATION where there it is not. And judge that result until forget from where it started.

And, i want to quote a member here, which i begin to understand it is a little bit handy (artful) ---note: english is not my native language, and some words i don't feel to be right so that's way the bracket here

Originally posted by JohnnyAnonymous
BTW.. This is just another reason why I don't believe in someone that uses a lot of enhancements... If you use enough filters and plugins you can make an object into anything you want)

His post here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now, it looks like scratches, it has all kind of dust, hairs and other PROCESSING ERRORS, so, it is NOT AN EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM beeing scratches in context. It happens ussualy, is part of processing flaws.


But...what you said?
Pipes on the moon? Buildings?

WOW! These are EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS !

And the proofs are in ... some scratches?





[edit on 26/1/09 by depthoffield]

Originally posted by depthoffield
Now this is a sign of your Civility & Decorum. May i give you a star for that?

Oh yes please do... I will add it to the U2U's from people who thought it funny as hell

And besides a lampoon has long been an accepted form of breaching "Civility & Decorum" when you really want to say something else... even Russia allowed that outlet

Originally posted by depthoffield
So what is the point of glass domes? To be shattered by meteors?

Do you actually EVER read any of the material or are you so bent on debunking you can't see the forets for the trees?

Do you not think the scientists who propose and research this have considered the meteor danger? Did you not see that the strength of glass made on the moon is considerably higher and then with carbon fiber added to the mix its even more so?

Do not spaceships in orbit have about the same risk of collision with a meteor as a structure on the moon would?

You scream about "Civility & Decorum", but do you add anything useful to the discussion?





[edit on 26-1-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


The Moon exerts a gravitational pull 1/6th that of the Earth, so engineers will be allowed to build less gravity-restricted structures. Also, local materials should be used where and when possible. The launch costs from Earth for building supplies would be astronomical, so building materials should be mined rather than imported. Lunar regolith (fine grains of pulverized Moon rock) for example can be used to cover parts of habitats to protect settlers from cancer-causing cosmic rays and provide insulation. According to studies, a regolith thickness of least 2.5 meters is required to protect the human body to a "safe" background level of radiation. High energy efficiency will also be required, so the designs must incorporate highly insulating materials to insure minimum loss of heat. Additional protection from meteorite impacts must be considered as the Moon has a near-zero atmosphere necessary to burn up incoming space debris.
High up on the structural engineers "to do" list would be the damage building materials may face when exposed to a vacuum. Damage from severe temperature variations, high velocity micrometeorite impacts, high outward forces from pressurized habitats, material brittleness at very low temperatures and cumulative abrasion by high energy cosmic rays and solar wind particles will all factor highly in the planning phase. This is why domes are a bad idea latest ideas are to melt the rocks to create an internal base. Or build a base and bury it under the lunar surface. And I would hope aliens are smart enuff to figure this out as well.

reply to post by dragonridr

Uh huh well then why is Robert Bigelow building inflatable space station modules and NASA is building inflatable Lunar habitats? Two of Bigelow's habitats are being tracked right now Genesis 1 and 2


Hmmm?

And you forgot to mention damage from the raging dust storms.

OH and about the gravity issue... Jury is still out on that one



[edit on 26-1-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


Zorgon ! This Was The Funniest Thing I Ever Seen On ATS !

thanks , that was brilliant ! i haven't laughed that good in a while

Jack has been part of Pegasus from the beginning and the Tsiolkowsky crater area has been one of our main features.

Yes i now remember seeing this on your site and Jack is an Amazing person i have to say. he has some excellent photos and information there. i was totally impressed with everything from him. tell him i said thanks

I think YOU will find his video quite interesting

WoW , that was a Great video and you were correct, i found that to be extremely interesting to say the least. thanks for pointing that out to me.


i agree with you about the objects in the picture

Those are not scratches

i am no expert but they Do Not Look Like Scratches to me because scratches don't cast shadows and the shadow effect i see in relation to the objects, seems to be consistent with the rest of the photo.

i think this is an Amazing discovery !





after thinking about this for a while i have come to the conclusion that there are Many good reasons for this to be the place for a Moon base or mining operation.

this Tsiolkovsky crater area has been projected by many scientists to be the best place for setting up a base because it is on the Far side where a Telescope could be set up to peer into deep space. another reason is this would be a good place to set up a communicatios point because there would be no interference from Earth radio waves.

With no atmosphere and shielding from the Earth, the far side of the Moon presents a nearly ideal environment for a sensitive Dark Ages telescope.

www.physorg.com...

books.google.com... ALRRXrhQe0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

also the nice flat area would make it easy to land something there





reasons for these base stations to be where they are .

if they are digging or blasting into the side of that ridge , then placing these stations in the proper place would be very important.

it makes perfect sense that one of these stations would be near the main opening and one further away just for safety reasons if there is blasting work going on or any kind of excavation.





www.thelivingmoon.com...




i still think this may be a dome


thank you for sharing this with me and sorry it took me so long to respond back to you. i was on a mission this evening to find out more about this





[edit on 26-1-2009 by easynow]

Yeah that video was wild. No chance of emulsion?

My question regarduing moonbases such as these... why place them there?

I see them, but yeah I want to understand why there (obvious answer is why not there). I guess I'm trying to understand the agenda of setting up bases there at that specific location.

Also, big leap I know, but can we tell which are recent bases/domes, compared to which are ruins?

My take is perhaps the moon had bases on the surface and below, but now mainly underground bases exist, as I suspect domes/bases on top of the surface is a lot harder to build, than simply tunneling out a huge underground base.

Which leads to the question of time and when the 'ruins' were there, and then the bases (ET or Earth human type) that probably came after. I know I'm asking a fair bit, but the dates of ruins verses moon bases/domes is something that I find interesting.

Listening to a Coast to Coast with Lear and Hoagland - Lears take is they are mining the rich minerals , to Hoagland which he says they are mining to find advanced ET artifacts that may help their technologies. Seriously though, if they were just mining for artifacts surely they'd just use a HAARP type equipmemt, which leads me to mining for minerals. or other.

Well that's my take, and any response to why they are there at that local, and why they are there - would be great. thanks.

wZn

Uh huh well then why is Robert Bigelow building inflatable space station modules and NASA is building inflatable Lunar habitats? Two of Bigelow's habitats are being tracked right now Genesis 1 and 2

Hmmm?

And you forgot to mention damage from the raging dust storms.

OH and about the gravity issue... Jury is still out on that one

The Bigelow ILCs are a little less impressive when you see them. Bigelow Aerospace inflatable technology is still experimental and described as such on their own website. . People should have a look and draw their own conclusions...

This is the Bigelow prototype for a moonbase and has been in testing since last year at McMurdo Ice Base.



This is the The Arthur Clarke Mars Greenhouse at the Haughton Mars Project Research Station on Devon Island in July 2007. An experiment to develop ideas about sustained living environments on Mars.



Our technology is demonstrably years away from that needed for constructing domes and living on either Moon or Mars. That they are working on it is promising, although looking at it, they need MORE funding. This NASA inflatable moonbase concept is an example. Color the sky blue and the ground green and it's just hi-tech camping out...




One day your ideas will probably be fact, at the moment we're still limited.

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
My question regarduing moonbases such as these... why place them there?

Well to answer that you have to know where 'there' is. In this case 'there' is Tsiolkowsky Crater...

Norm Bergrund says that is where the Ship that towed the moon into orbit is stored... we have been looking at that rock in the center for some time... it looks a little like maybe a ship is buried there

from Clementine color data... at the very least it is interesting





What is really weird is THIS is also Tsiolkowsky Crater taken by Apollo 17



It's a still from a NASA video

[edit on 27-1-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon
What is really weird is THIS is also Tsiolkowsky Crater taken by Apollo 17

What's weird about that being also Tsiolkowsky Crater, they look the same, if you rotate one of the images to show both with the same orientation.



Considering the difference in the way the image was captured, the difference in perspective and the difference in the light, I do not see anything weird.

Great thread! This is very interesting!

Originally posted by Kandinsky
The Bigelow ILCs are a little less impressive when you see them. Bigelow Aerospace inflatable technology is still experimental and described as such on their own website. . People should have a look and draw their own conclusions...

Well any person that has the clout to tell NASA to take a hike, buy into a space port in Russia and launch the first two sections of a Hotel in Space is my kind of people




And I don't know what it takes to impress YOU but in my books these are pretty impressive for a PRIVATELY owned space station module



You can track them both live here..

www.thelivingmoon.com...


.,.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


Very interesting!


[edit on 27-1-2009 by Bek Ti]

reply to post by zorgon


I have seen in the past that glass can create a lot of heat when light passes through it. Something about the change in wavelength of the UV rays, or something....its been awhile.

Regardless, making domes out of glass could be an easy way to improve the efficiency of heating that area to make it more habitable.

Seems like a reasonable action to take, to me, in a world of ISRU.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

On the moon the problem is not staying warm, the problem is getting rid of the heat. Not easy. Just another reason glass domes are not a real good solution.

[edit on 1/27/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by zorgon

Once more, I'm in agreement with you. I'm impressed by the application of technology to overcome hostile environments.

I was merely drawing attention to the 'parallax error' between the assertion of existing Moon and Mars bases and the reality of our current technology. The images you posted are as current as the ones I posted and by the same company, Bigelow. The only difference is our interpretations

reply to post by Phage



one thought i have is that, a dome with an atmosphere should be fairly easy to control temp, especially when all they need to do is circulate the air through the moon. use the -150F/whatever temp, under the surface as a heat sink, scrub it on the way back in.

also domes could heat underground areas too?