What is Israel trying to hide?

reply to post by mrmonsoon



While most of us, in the comfort of homes, contemplate the purchase of material things or what ever, Palestinians are subjected to a lot more than an explosion in a cafe stuffed full of sallow faced squatters gorging themselves on ill gotten gains.

Even more bizarrely, most of those suicide bombings always seemed to happen in an Arab Israeli restaurant and in a guest worker neighbourhood.

Anybody can have a bomb strapped onto them and instructed to go to selected locations against their will. Remember Brian Douglas Wells who answered a delivery call to a mysterious address in a remote area and ended up at about an hour later at a bank wearing a bomb?

Well Marjorie Diehl-Armstrong and Kenneth Barnes, the couple that rigged the bomb on Wells, are zionists and supporters of the bandit state. Marjorie Diehl herself has been involved in a number of 'hits' that included her ex-fiancee for which she miraculously did not go to prison. Her co-zionist, Bill Rothstein, aided her in covering up and the bent legal system let her get away with it.

www.amw.com...

It seems that a visit to Israel induces a state of 'suicide bombery'. Of course Palestinians have partaken in this Israeli sport but they seemed to be effective only at checkpoints and bus terminals near Palestinian enclaves. Who conducts suicide bombings in the centre of Tel Aviv is worthy of investigation; after all, Israel is not averse to a spot of false flagging. Remember the Lavon Affair and the USS Liberty?

[edit on 113131p://am3132 by masonwatcher]

reply to post by mrmonsoon


Do you understand the concept of proportionality?

reply to post by pause4thought


It is reality. If you would prefer to ignore reality, then no one can stop you. Nothing I said was remotely Nazi. Just true. I mean, say...we condemned the Nazis for eugenics, but no one even seems to realize that the idea was popular in the US, too, and implemented in the sterilization of women of certain races, for example.

You apparently have some concept in your mind of what constitutes being enlightened, and are pursuing that, but doing so in complete disregard to any aspect of reality that doesn't fit that ideal. True enlightenment requires embracing reality, before all else. Nothing is of any value unless first it be true.

Strangely, this new breed of faux-enlightenment involves extreme dislike for anything American or Israeli. Something so vehemently biased spreading so rapidly and in disregard to reality certainly makes me start wondering about conspiracies. But won't have to for long, since the US now has a president that loathes America and clings to that same brand of faux-enlightenment.

Do you want a resolution between Israel and Palestinians? Try starting with some unbiased truth.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


Well would you agree that if both sides need to stop, then the fighting on both sides needs to stop now?

Does that include the current actions of Israel at this very moment?

I would certianly think that it would.

Hamas needs to stop their attacks, Israel needs to stop blockading and surpressing the Palestinians, Hamas needs to stop sending in suicide bombs, Israel needs to stop shoving the Palestinians into a corner, Hamas needs to negotiate in good faith a real peace, Israel needs to let go of some land that was once the Palestinians and let them become self sufficient and to not occupy their territory, Hamas needs to abide by their agreements, Israel needs to abide by their agreements.

Yes?





Cheers!!!!

Israelis are hypocrites! The Jews invented terrorism as a means of achieving their political goals, and yet when they suffer at the hands of their creation they, like the playground bully, fly into a rage. The people of Britain will never forget the King David Hotel.

Originally posted by warrenb
ahhhh....good 'ol ethnic cleansing

We are made to feel sorry about the holocaust, anyone questioning it is branded an anti Semite, racist or thrown in prison. When they kill people it is ok because it is in self defense or to protect their land, the land they stole in 1947 while killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians.

Oh Damn! You beat me to it. Well said ol' chap!

In fact, I want to know why the Jews have their own special word for racism against them - "anti semitism". Why not just "racist" like the rest of us? It appears that somehow it's different or worse to say something untoward about the Jewish doesn't it... So much so that it deserves it's own unique description.

Screams of elitism to me!

IRM

What are they hiding, in six words. THE EXTERMINATION OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE. Although they are not really hiding are they as the Jews think they can do what they like and no one will step in and take them on or pose sanctions against them.

That is exactly what would happen if it was any other nation, but no thats not part of the plan. Israel has to serve its purpose and when it has it will be left to fend for its self.

Vicious cycle... The tougher the Israelis get on Palestinian militants the more they retaliate and the more the Palestinian people will suffer.

Seems as though it is all by design.

I suppose one could call this cyclical violence genocide when one side clearly loses far more than the other, however proving it is nearly impossible... Also by design?

Genocide by any other name is more than an abomination and an oblivious world the greatest shame.

Given the Internation Red Crescent are sending a hospital ship to gaza - will Israel take a leaf out of Hitlers book and sink it?

btw israel are now bombing prisons

www.ynetnews.com...

reply to post by RFBurns


Unfortunately, this was not fabricated.

Where as this falls back on the tired old.......... The cause (this time) was over a week of rocket and mortar attacks.

That was not fabricated at all.

In fact, even Al-Jihad news reported that Hamas were firing rockets and mortars into Israel.

In fact I can provide as many news agencies as you want all saying it is truth and not fabricated.

Its a mentality..the Islamic mentality..the nutcases that think everyone wants to die for their belief...in the west we have had our fair share of lunatics...but there is something about Islam that just wants war!...I am not going to waste my time trawling the net for evidence , statistics....

Pretty evident to me that most Islamic countries ...have problems ..anyway

This is just my opinion...only!!



Truth is most people just want to live their lives in peace..yet we have idiots that use violence as a means to an end!!

My heart goes out to the people in Gaza and people all over the world that have to suffer because of the greedy, religious and violent!!

I don't care for the why's and wherefore's...peace is in the hands of the average man/woman!...

To me this is just another part of the plan....will come to a point where we all adopt the position..bending over as far you you can ...and kissing your arse goodbye!!

More people should say the magic word..NO!!

reply to post by Mdv2

.....Hamas proposed a new peace deal in which Israel would return to the borders of 1967 , but Israel immediately turned down that idea. In other words, Israel did not even give peace a chance.

Are you kidding me? That's a helleva stretch there Mdv2!

They returned occupied Gaza to 'give peace a chance'. Look where it got them.

Originally posted by DCPatriot
Are you kidding me? That's a helleva stretch there Mdv2!

They returned occupied Gaza to 'give peace a chance'. Look where it got them.

They cannot get anywhere with restrictions like this:

This year's olive harvest season in the West Bank has begun. The harvest comes in the wake of extensive damage to the groves during the construction of the Separation Barrier, and strict restrictions on movement imposed on Palestinian farmers trying to access their land west of the Barrier. Many farmers received a permit for the harvest season, but were not allowed to reach their land during the course of the year. Since they were unable to work their fields during the year, they will now find their fields in poor condition. As a result, the harvest will be more difficult and yield a smaller crop.

Just an example. (Source is B'tselem)

There should be clear borders, not a Palestinian State full of Israeli settlements where Palestinians are not allowed to come.

Well....Perhaps if they would STOP tossing rockets at the jews, they might live in peace.


I don't have one bit of sympathy for them. They have had MANY chances at peace and managed to muck it up every time.

Some food for thought:

I thought they would feel right at home in the alleys of Balata refugee camp, the Casbah and the Hawara checkpoint. But they said there is no comparison: for them the Israeli occupation regime is worse than anything they knew under apartheid. This week, 21 human rights activists from South Africa visited Israel. Among them were members of Nelson Mandela's African National Congress; at least one of them took part in the armed struggle and at least two were jailed. There were two South African Supreme Court judges, a former deputy minister, members of Parliament, attorneys, writers and journalists. Blacks and whites, about half of them Jews who today are in conflict with attitudes of the conservative Jewish community in their country. Some of them have been here before; for others it was their first visit.

For five days they paid an unconventional visit to Israel - without Sderot, the IDF and the Foreign Ministry (but with Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Memorial and a meeting with Supreme Court President Justice Dorit Beinisch. They spent most of their time in the occupied areas, where hardly any official guests go - places that are also shunned by most Israelis.

On Monday they visited Nablus, the most imprisoned city in the West Bank. From Hawara to the Casbah, from the Casbah to Balata, from Joseph's Tomb to the monastery of Jacob's Well. They traveled from Jerusalem to Nablus via Highway 60, observing the imprisoned villages that have no access to the main road, and seeing the "roads for the natives," which pass under the main road. They saw and said nothing. There were no separate roads under apartheid. They went through the Hawara checkpoint mutely: they never had such barriers.
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Jody Kollapen, who was head of Lawyers for Human Rights in the apartheid regime, watches silently. He sees the "carousel" into which masses of people are jammed on their way to work, visit family or go to the hospital. Israeli peace activist Neta Golan, who lived for several years in the besieged city, explains that only 1 percent of the inhabitants are allowed to leave the city by car, and they are suspected of being collaborators with Israel. Nozizwe Madlala-Routledge, a former deputy minister of defense and of health and a current member of Parliament, a revered figure in her country, notices a sick person being taken through on a stretcher and is shocked. "To deprive people of humane medical care? You know, people die because of that," she says in a muted voice.

The tour guides - Palestinian activists - explain that Nablus is closed off by six checkpoints. Until 2005, one of them was open. "The checkpoints are supposedly for security purposes, but anyone who wants to perpetrate an attack can pay NIS 10 for a taxi and travel by bypass roads, or walk through the hills.

The real purpose is to make life hard for the inhabitants. The civilian population suffers," says Said Abu Hijla, a lecturer at Al-Najah University in the city.

In the bus I get acquainted with my two neighbors: Andrew Feinstein, a son of Holocaust survivors who is married to a Muslim woman from Bangladesh and served six years as an MP for the ANC; and Nathan Gefen, who has a male Muslim partner and was a member of the right-wing Betar movement in his youth. Gefen is active on the Committee against AIDS in his AIDS-ravaged country.

"Look left and right," the guide says through a loudspeaker, "on the top of every hill, on Gerizim and Ebal, is an Israeli army outpost that is watching us." Here are bullet holes in the wall of a school, there is Joseph's Tomb, guarded by a group of armed Palestinian policemen. Here there was a checkpoint, and this is where a woman passerby was shot to death two years ago. The government building that used to be here was bombed and destroyed by F-16 warplanes. A thousand residents of Nablus were killed in the second intifada, 90 of them in Operation Defensive Shield - more than in Jenin. Two weeks ago, on the day the Gaza Strip truce came into effect, Israel carried out its last two assassinations here for the time being. Last night the soldiers entered again and arrested people.

It has been a long time since tourists visited here. There is something new: the numberless memorial posters that were pasted to the walls to commemorate the fallen have been replaced by marble monuments and metal plaques in every corner of the Casbah.

"Don't throw paper into the toilet bowl, because we have a water shortage," the guests are told in the offices of the Casbah Popular Committee, located high in a spectacular old stone building. The former deputy minister takes a seat at the head of the table. Behind her are portraits of Yasser Arafat, Abu Jihad and Marwan Barghouti - the jailed Tanzim leader. Representatives of the Casbah residents describe the ordeals they face. Ninety percent of the children in the ancient neighborhood suffer from anemia and malnutrition, the economic situation is dire, the nightly incursions are continuing, and some of the inhabitants are not allowed to leave the city at all. We go out for a tour on the trail of devastation wrought by the IDF over the years.

Edwin Cameron, a judge on the Supreme Court of Appeal, tells his hosts: "We came here lacking in knowledge and are thirsty to know. We are shocked by what we have seen until now. It is very clear to us that the situation here is intolerable." A poster pasted on an outside wall has a photograph of a man who spent 34 years in an Israeli prison. Mandela was incarcerated seven years less than that. One of the Jewish members of the delegation is prepared to say, though not for attribution, that the comparison with apartheid is very relevant and that the Israelis are even more efficient in implementing the separation-of-races regime than the South Africans were. If he were to say this publicly, he would be attacked by the members of the Jewish community, he says.

Under a fig tree in the center of the Casbah one of the Palestinian activists explains: "The Israeli soldiers are cowards. That is why they created routes of movement with bulldozers. In doing so they killed three generations of one family, the Shubi family, with the bulldozers." Here is the stone monument to the family - grandfather, two aunts, mother and two children. The words "We will never forget, we will never forgive" are engraved on the stone.

No less beautiful than the famed Paris cemetery of Pere-Lachaise, the central cemetery of Nablus rests in the shadow of a large grove of pine trees. Among the hundreds of headstones, those of the intifada victims stand out. Here is the fresh grave of a boy who was killed a few weeks ago at the Hawara checkpoint. The South Africans walk quietly between the graves, pausing at the grave of the mother of our guide, Abu Hijla. She was shot 15 times. "We promise you we will not surrender," her children wrote on the headstone of the woman who was known as "mother of the poor."

Lunch is in a hotel in the city, and Madlala-Routledge speaks. "It is hard for me to describe what I am feeling. What I see here is worse than what we experienced. But I am encouraged to find that there are courageous people here. We want to support you in your struggle, by every possible means. There are quite a few Jews in our delegation, and we are very proud that they are the ones who brought us here. They are demonstrating their commitment to support you. In our country we were able to unite all the forces behind one struggle, and there were courageous whites, including Jews, who joined the struggle. I hope we will see more Israeli Jews joining your struggle."

She was deputy defense minister from 1999 to 2004; in 1987 she served time in prison. Later, I asked her in what ways the situation here is worse than apartheid. "The absolute control of people's lives, the lack of freedom of movement, the army presence everywhere, the total separation and the extensive destruction we saw."

Madlala-Routledge thinks that the struggle against the occupation is not succeeding here because of U.S. support for Israel - not the case with apartheid, which international sanctions helped destroy. Here, the racist ideology is also reinforced by religion, which was not the case in South Africa. "Talk about the 'promised land' and the 'chosen people' adds a religious dimension to racism which we did not have."

Equally harsh are the remarks of the editor-in-chief of the Sunday Times of South Africa, Mondli Makhanya, 38. "When you observe from afar you know that things are bad, but you do not know how bad. Nothing can prepare you for the evil we have seen here. In a certain sense, it is worse, worse, worse than everything we endured. The level of the apartheid, the racism and the brutality are worse than the worst period of apartheid.

"The apartheid regime viewed the blacks as inferior; I do not think the Israelis see the Palestinians as human beings at all. How can a human brain engineer this total separation, the separate roads, the checkpoints? What we went through was terrible, terrible, terrible - and yet there is no comparison. We also knew that it would end one day; here there is no end in sight. The end of the tunnel is blacker than black.

"Under apartheid, whites and blacks met in certain places. The Israelis and the Palestinians do not meet any longer at all. The separation is total. It seems to me that the Israelis would like the Palestinians to disappear. There was never anything like that in our case. The whites did not want the blacks to disappear. I saw the settlers in Silwan - people who want to expel other people from their place."

Afterward we walk silently through the alleys of Balata, the largest refugee camp in the West Bank, a place that was designated 60 years ago to be a temporary haven for 5,000 refugees and is now inhabited by 26,000. In the dark alleys, which are about the width of a thin person, an oppressive silence prevailed.

Haaretz

S+F.
Israel, the only country not taking care about any UN resolution. any other would be already isolated or bombed. the country spending most of a budget (more less all the money which they receive from US) on weapons.

the only country which is runing presently the concentration camps for the other human beings. and they even reject their right to say "enough". even when their country is on its victims grounds.

why the whole world is so blind? does the past can give the right to make such a harm to the other nation without the punishment?

reply to post by saturnine_sweet

Nothing I said was remotely Nazi.

I beg to differ. In claiming the term 'war crime' is a ridiculous term and saying...

any cost is acceptable as long as it does not compromise your power. War crimes are just crap fed to the innocent minded

...you adopt a tone that would be worthy of Himmler.

Himmler coordinated the killing of millions of Jews, between 200,000 and 500,000 Roma, many prisoners of war, and possibly another three to four million Poles, communists, or other groups whom the Nazis deemed unworthy to live or simply 'in the way', including homosexuals and those with physical and mental disabilities.

Source

Following your line of argument this type of 'cost' would be acceptable to you as long as it did not compromise Israeli power! Should we now expect Israeli gas chambers?

Face the facts: Israel is behaving more and more like its historical arch nemesis, and some of its apologists are sounding increasingly machiavellian.

...this new breed of faux-enlightenment involves extreme dislike for anything American or Israeli. Something so vehemently biased spreading so rapidly and in disregard to reality certainly makes me start wondering about conspiracies.

This is laughable. It's not an argument, just proof that when faced with the grossly immoral behaviour of Israel all you can do is fall back on sweeping generalizations and stereotypes in the hope others will rally to the flag and join the bandwagon. It's vitriolic nonesense.

People are not anti-American - or anti-Israeli for that matter - if they call Israel to account for disproportionate responses and indiscriminate bombing.

Do you want a resolution between Israel and Palestinians? Try starting with some unbiased truth.

I am an unbiased bystander with no intrinsic interest in either party. I am totally against violent attacks on Israel. Unbiased truth? I've not seen so much as a hint of even-handedness on your part.

First remove the plank from your own eye...

Originally posted by czacza
why the whole world is so blind? does the past can give the right to make such a harm to the other nation without the punishment?

Its not the world that is blind, it is Americans who are primarily blind, not all, it is changing rapidly. The reasons being:

-American media brainwashes the public opinion and is heavily influenced by the Israeli lobby that filters out negative stories related to Israel
-America houses many Christian zealots who see it as their duty to protect Israel.
-Many Americans have ties to Israel in one way or another. Either bribing or family ties.

One Israeli soldier rightfully said: America's public opinion is the most important weapon Israel has.

There will always be those who are blinded for reality. I would advise them to travel to the area like I did two years ago.

All politics and history aside,you can argue facts tell you turn blue in the face.When the Palestinians chose to elect Hamas as there government,don't you think they (the people) brought this on themselves??The Hamas have said they will destory Israel one way or another,now they say they are going to bring HELL to Israel,what exactly are the Israeli people supposed to do?

Not a heart of stone,human nature,survival. As long as everyone around Israel hate Israel then this will continue.I fear the only way this will end is what no one wants to see,but then again man has been killing man since the dawn of man........havent we.

it must be hard to choose between remaining quiet and getting your land stolen, or fighting back and getting bombarded with bombs and the land stolen anyways...