What is Israel trying to hide?

What is Israel trying to hide?

www.boston.com

As Munayyer stated, few Americans are aware that Gaza is a locked prison in which people are denied sufficient food, clean water, fuel, medicine, and access to medical care. Children, who make up half the population, are severely malnourished, and the entire population is traumatized and depressed.

I was recently among a group of international health professionals and academics who were turned away when we tried to enter Gaza to see for ourselves the impact of the siege on the population.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Israel, which earlier prevented Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Jimmy Carter from entering Gaza, detained and then deported Richard Falk, the UN special rapporteur, when he arrived at the airport in Tel Aviv on Dec. 15.

What is Israel trying to hide? US taxpayers, who subsidize its actions at about $3 billion a year, should demand to know, and call for an immediate end to this inhuman collective punishment.

A couple of weeks ago a Dutch TV crew was also denied access to the Gaza strip by the IDF. Secretly, they went into Gaza and witnessed themselves what is happening. They filmed a hospital in which newly born babies are dying as a consequence of power fall outs. The Gaza power plant does not receive enough fuel to provide Gaza, and thus the hospital, with constant power supply.

Some on this forum have said ''It is Hamas that broke the truce'' and they are to blame, not Israel.

Although there cannot be a reason to justify violence against innocent civilians like Hamas has done, I do understand their desperation. Before Hamas broke the truce, the Gaza strip had already been sealed for months. Fruits and other kind of foods which were cultivated for export are forcefully sold on local markets against a loss. Most of the corporations in Gaza have filed bankruptcy long time ago. (Food) prices have skyrocketed and food stocks are extremely low.
Consequently, 80% of the Gazans is dependent on food and medical aid and the average income is $2,- a day way too little to pay a family's meal.

Some on this forum have said: they are smuggling in weapons, so I don't feel sorry for them. You must be seriously retarded to think that people spend their $2,- on weapons rather than on food for their children. Every person with an average IQ could understand that these people spend their $2 on smuggled food and in some cases medicines. Of course, weapons are smuggled into Gaza, but it is Hamas and other terrorist network which smuggle weapons.

We, the world, are not allowed to see what is happening. And if Israel is really so honest as they pretend to be, they should allow reporters to go in there and let them witness themselves what is happening, rather than censoring the news.

One more thing. The US strongly advocated free elections in Palestine. The Palestinians elected Hamas, which made the US decide to immediately cut off all aid. Hamas proposed a new peace deal in which Israel would return to the borders of 1967 , but Israel immediately turned down that idea. In other words, Israel did not even give peace a chance.

Once again, I do not advocate their use of violence, but with no freedom to move, no fair chance to build a country, there will never be peace.

Consensus is the key. We have seen what 8 years Bush and no talking to ''enemies'' has done, like Iran. It further isolated them, increasing the risk of terrorist attacks.

Although I would once again like to stress I condemn the use of violence against innocent civilians, one Israeli has died so far while over 200 Palestinians have died. That response is, like Sarkozy said, disproportionate, or like one ex prime minister of the Netherlands said: a war crime.

Could someone distinguish the difference between a concentration camp and Gaza? Could someone explain me why refusing people foreign aid and starve them to death is any better than what the Nazi's did to the Jews in Europe?

The whole world sees what is going, yet America is turning a blind eye to Israel's disproportionate response. During the Lebanon - Israel war, thousands of innocent civilians died because two soldiers were kidnapped by Hezbollah not by the Lebanese government. What makes them, the Israeli government, less terroristic than Hamas?



www.boston.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 28-12-2008 by Mdv2]

reply to post by Mdv2


"What is Israel trying to hide?"

The Truth...


Mod Edit: Image Hotlinking – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 28/12/2008 by Mirthful Me]

excellant topic, star & flagged!

they're not really hiding anything (except for maybe the Ghetto of GazaStrip)... they have an impasse because of all the conflicting negotiations spanning the whole peace process...


Egypt had modern claim to 98% of Gaza Strip property...
in the interim, Israel extracted their citizens & forced Arabs into Gaza...

in the view of the international community, Israel as custodian of Gaza
is responsible for the Gaza residents safty & well being...
but the overlapping treaty negotiations results in the Gaza residents to not be represented rightly...



see: www.palestinefacts.org...

The only prohibition in these agreements is that neither side take steps to change the status of the West Bank and Gaza Strip,
such as unilateral declarations of statehood or annexation, prior to final status negotiations.
The Israeli Government has voluntarily frozen the building of new ...

so, Gaza is in a perpetual 'Limbo'... and the USA witholding the former 'aid' because the Gaza Palestinians elected & installed Hamas as their political leadership in what the rest of the world views as free elections.

not saying the USA is/should be required to furnish 'aid'
but, UN aid or humanitarian help should not be blocked either.



hiding what? ... how about a heart-of-stone

Top-notch OP. Real quality: well written & well argued. Starred & flagged.

Israelis need to wake up to the fact that their government's actions with respect to Gaza have been the final nail in the coffin for many people around the world. Israel is now widely regarded as a pariah state.

It's no good Israelis whinging about Hamas militancy as justification for collective punishment. A mediaeval-style siege has no place in a civilized world. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially when most of the victims are civilians.

If you're an Israeli reading this I have to say it's unfortunate your government is turning world opinion against you. You have lost the moral high ground. Had you maintained it you would have maintained a balanced degree of sympathy in the face of violent attacks.

As it is, Israel is increasingly regarded as a cruel persecutor bent on destruction. Israel complains about Palestinians wanting to destroy their nation. But in reality the Palestinians have never come near actually doing this. Israel, on the other hand, has so much innocent blood on its hands through intentional disproportionate responses that the reality has now widely sunk in: it is Israel that wants to crush the Palestinians.

Originally posted by pause4thought
Top-notch OP. Real quality: well written & well argued. Starred & flagged.

Israelis need to wake up to the fact that their government's actions with respect to Gaza have been the final nail in the coffin for many people around the world. Israel is now widely regarded as a pariah state.

It's no good Israelis whinging about Hamas militancy as justification for collective punishment. A mediaeval-style siege has no place in a civilized world. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially when most of the victims are civilians.

If you're an Israeli reading this I have to say it's unfortunate your government is turning world opinion against you. You have lost the moral high ground. Had you maintained it you would have maintained a balanced degree of sympathy in the face of violent attacks.

As it is, Israel is increasingly regarded as a cruel persecutor bent on destruction. Israel complains about Palestinians wanting to destroy their nation. But in reality the Palestinians have never come near actually doing this. Israel, on the other hand, has so much innocent blood on its hands through intentional disproportionate responses that the reality has now widely sunk in: it is Israel that wants to crush the Palestinians.

Very well written OP - Flagged.

I have nothing to add to this response, perfectly summarizes my feelings towards this issue and the complete nonsense that is being allowed to take place while the world simply watches.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - What is happening to the Palestinians in the strip is pure torture and injustice.

GET OUT!

As a U.S. citizen I feel deeply ashamed by my government’s lack of compassion for the oppressed Palestinian people and support for the covetousness of the Israeli government. Israel’s actions validate the fact that it is an EXTREMELY selfish state. Their government’s polices and military’s rules of engagement have proven to be some of the most self-centered and inhumane in the history of mankind.

I intend to speak out in America about the apartheid in Gaza, even if I need to voice my opinion in line at the local market, print and distribute leaflets, or resort to a can of spray paint and a midnight urban graffiti campaign.

Israel your heart and soul are unfeeling. You have made the choice, to serve yourself.

It's ironic that during WW2 Palestine was one of the few peaceful places in the world. My grandfather was stationed there while recovering from injuries sustained in North Africa. He said it was the most tranquil and spiritual places he had ever been and his photos show both Muslims and Jews living there, what the heck happened? I guess war happened but imagine what things could be like if it could have been avoided all those years ago. I'm sure there could have been a way for both sides to work things out back then so the influx of Jewish immigration to Palestine or Israel (or whatever name could be agreed on) could be more peaceful and met with less resistance, now I just hope it's not too late for peace.

reply to post by seasoul


Well said.

I have never been politically active, but were there to be a public demonstration against the crimes perpetrated against Gaza I would feel impelled to be there. And frankly I hope it comes about.

What is more, if the Israeli army is planning to send in the tanks, as predicted

here

I might honestly start thinking of contacting people who could organize such an event myself, just to see what could be done.

reply to post by Mdv2


Excellent article and I enjoyed how you disassembled the arguments of the Israeli apologists.

I note that you persistently advocate non-violence by so called terrorists. I think you refer to Hamas. Hamas was formed by Israeli Mossad to act as a disruptive organisation when Israel was gunning for Fatah and obsessed with Yasser Arafat. The agents it employed were Palestinian double agents who gladly accepted Mossad finance and turned on the zionists when they reached critical mass.

In the context of the blockade and the current bombardment by Israel, I find it bizarre for you to insist that Hamas has no right to strike against Israel. Any Palestinian has every right to attack and harm Israel by all means necessary just like Israel is doing to them.

The Palestinians are an unarmed people being brutalised by a very violent and genocidal Israel, yet audiences like us sanctimoniously talk about non-violence. In that case how does one deal with genocide? Die quietly while on the high horse of non-violence?

[edit on 073131p://am3106 by masonwatcher]

Yeah its a shame we dont have maps of North America and what belonged to the native Indians, and what they have now.

Or Australia and the native Aboriginals, and what they have now.

Or the native New Zealanders ....

It never ceases to amaze me at the high and lofty argument for the poor Palestinian. How about you give back North America to the Indians? and Australia to the Aboriginals? Go on, give it ALL back.

And dont dare try and say that the native people of north America and Australia aren't oppressed and suffering. They live in some of the richest nations on the planet in 3rd world conditions.

I dont see many posts fighting for their oppression.

Whats the difference?

Native Americans and native Australians, though they live in 3rd world conditions DONT rocket and mortar civilians! Period!

Sorry but I dont buy the poor Palestinian argument.

Originally posted by Burginthorn
Whats the difference?

Native Americans and native Australians, though they live in 3rd world conditions DONT rocket and mortar civilians! Period!

Could you mention an example of native Americans or Australians who cannot move freely throughout respectively the US and Australia? Could you provide some evidence of native Americans and Australians who are not allowed to receive foreign aid?

I think you don't really understand that the missile attacks are a response to the fact that the Gaza Strip has been blocked for months now leading to food and medicine shortages.

Sorry but I dont buy the poor Palestinian argument.

Where did I mention 'poor Palestinians'?

[edit on 28-12-2008 by Mdv2]

reply to post by Burginthorn


It is not possible to make things right, in history. The only hope we have is to make things right, today. Speak out about the current injustices, and tomorrow will be a beautiful day for all people.

reply to post by Mdv2


Lets take this misinformation one at a time.

The Myth that Israel prevents Gaza from having electricity.
FACT:GAza get over 70% of it's power form Israel, say that again, Gaza gets over 70% of it's electricty from Israel.

Even you now admit it "IS" the Hamas who's daily attacks caused the counter attack.

You talk about the restriction on Gaza, HOWEVER, you fail to mention "WHY" this has been done.
They were done to catch the civillian murdering terrorists blowing themselves up at stores and coffee shops, hoping to kill as many women and children as possible.
They were done as reactions to daily rocket and mortar attacks, they launch

You clearly admit that their elected governemtnonly wants guns and bombs and care nothing about their people.
They don't want food or medicine for their people, they want guns and bombs to kill.

Since you doin't seem to know military thinking, let me tewll you.
When news sources go in and give information on Israels troops strengh/location.....that can't be allowed in a time of war.

You are correct, the palistinians freely elected murdering terrorists and they are suffering from their choice, that is their fault, not others.

Maybe if people stop appologising for the attacks they make, they might say, hmmmmmm

Hamas militarily attacks and gets militaruily counter attacked.

If Hamas did not like/want the counter attacks ( so they can cry poor us) they would not attack a country, especially on with a much stronger military.

Perhaps it is time to stop sympathising with terrorists and say, terrorists, if youi don't attack, you won't be counter attacked.

Such a simple concept, yet one that escapes some people.

Why can native Americans and native Australians move around freely?

Maybe that has something to do with them NOT strapping bombs to their bodies and blowing people up? Just a hunch ...

Think about this:

If native Americans started strapping bombs to their bodies in protest of having their land taken from them, started forming militant groups, obtaining weapons, rockets, mortars and started using them on American citizens - what do you think the Govts response would be? Seriously think about it.

Originally posted by Burginthorn

If native Americans started strapping bombs to their bodies in protest of having their land taken from them, started forming militant groups, obtaining weapons, rockets, mortars and started using them on American citizens - what do you think the Govts response would be? Seriously think about it.

Not sure. Poison blankets and other nasty methods were the American response to attacks back when there was a resistance to settlment. We only know what America did in the 1700s, what America would do in 2008 is up for speculation. Perhaps the best clue would be what happened to muslims in America after 9/11 but it's hard to compare two different situations and project an outcome.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by Jacob08]

You have a very clear picture.

You make a very good point, but only for those in the US.

That said, your example is simple and elegant, nice point.

reply to post by Burginthorn

The media feed the stereotypes and the good ol TV junkie just lap it up without a thought, If it was on TV it must be real, doesn't matter that 2 stations showed conflicting reports.

why do people strap bombs to themselves?
because they feel helpless and have no other way of getting justice, what can the Palistinians do to get heard?
what would you do if you feel helpless and feel as though there is no justice?
what would you do if your house was blown up? or your child killed?
most of the conflict comes about from years and years of hatred and the children learn their behaviour from the parents, Palistinian and Isreali children learn, both are taught the other is the enemy.

so lets stop pointing fingers and say who is right or wrong, because both are, the question is what will it take to get peace there?

as far as Aboriginals walking around freely, try being an Aboriginal and drive a nice car and see how long before you are pulled over, or just have a few of you walk through the street and see how long before the long arm of the law questions what you are up too.
they may be free to move around, but they are far from free.


[edit on 28-12-2008 by munkey66]

ahhhh....good 'ol ethnic cleansing

We are made to feel sorry about the holocaust, anyone questioning it is branded an anti Semite, racist or thrown in prison. When they kill people it is ok because it is in self defense or to protect their land, the land they stole in 1947 while killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians.

I'm starting to think that a rage virus outbreak would be pretty cool