What is Israel trying to hide?

Originally posted by Burginthorn
Why can native Americans and native Australians move around freely?

Maybe that has something to do with them NOT strapping bombs to their bodies and blowing people up? Just a hunch ...

Think about this:

If native Americans started strapping bombs to their bodies in protest of having their land taken from them, started forming militant groups, obtaining weapons, rockets, mortars and started using them on American citizens - what do you think the Govts response would be? Seriously think about it.

You are leaving out some very important facts in comparing native Americans vs the Palestinians.

Native Americans are not blockaded.
Native Americans are not starved.
Native Americans are not denied medical supplies.
Native Americans are not surpressed.
Native Americans can go anywhere they wish.
Native Americans are given true control over their reservations.
Native Americans make their own laws in their reservations.
Native Americans can work, play, live anywhere in the country.
Native Americans can buy, sell, trade, invest, build buisness anywhere in the USA.
Native Americans are not under any government control
Native Americans have their own form of government on their reservations.
Native Americans are recognized by the US government as soverign peoples.

Now can the Palestinians do any of those things in Gaza udner the Israeli thumb?




Cheers!!!!

[edit on 28-12-2008 by RFBurns]

reply to post by RFBurns


It is pretty sad when we are looking to the Native Americans as an example of a people who have received fair treatment and ample human rights.

reply to post by RFBurns


You are leaving out the reason "WHY" they don't have those things.

It is because they don't suicide bomb civilians.

It is because they don't launch rockets and mortars on an almost daily basis.

It is because they don't tech their children it is an honor to kill as many people as possible (civilians)

It is because they don't strap bombs onto 5 year old children and explode them-yes it's a fact.

We can't look at the effects without looking at the cause.

Chicken or the egg? Which one has to come first if there is to be a peace both sides can live with

If you don't get what I'm saying. One person is saying they act the way they do because of the way they are treated. While the other says they are treated the way they are because of the way they act. If you still don't get it don't worry... it probably doesn't make sense.


[edit on 28-12-2008 by Jacob08]

If some foreign power came into our land, and then forced us out of our homes and slowly starved us and our families in some god forsaken open prison a la nazi camp concentration camp, then guess what?!... we would also be voting for whoever wants to fight back, and I would be on the forefront with missles and guns ready to take back our freedom!!!

and they call it Terror?... how about self defense.

Oh yeah and lets not forget the #1 cash source of Israel is America, they have the most number of lobbiest in Washington and America sure as hell provides them protection from the international community.

At the end of the day, however you look at it, Israel is the oppressor.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by RFBurns

 

You are leaving out the reason "WHY" they don't have those things.

It is because they don't suicide bomb civilians.

It is because they don't launch rockets and mortars on an almost daily basis.

It is because they don't tech their children it is an honor to kill as many people as possible (civilians)

It is because they don't strap bombs onto 5 year old children and explode them-yes it's a fact.

We can't look at the effects without looking at the cause.

If we are going to look at the WHY of the situation, why don't we ask WHY they chose to strap bombs onto 5 year old's or any of the other things you have listed? I am sure that they love their children as much as the rest of us, so they must have a pretty important reason.

Neither side is innocent here.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


This is simply an instance of sling shots and bottle rockets versus advanced F-16 attack jets and heavily armored Merkava battle tanks. Results of the current engagement in Gaza, are certain. Significant collateral damage will ultimately leave hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of INNOCENT women and children in Gaza dead, decimated, or crippled for the rest of their lives.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by seasoul]

Originally posted by Karlhungis

It is pretty sad when we are looking to the Native Americans as an example of a people who have received fair treatment and ample human rights.

Its obvious they didnt have those kinds of rights and treatment in the beginings of this country, but I am just pointing out someone else's reference by putting in today's facts when they are comparing the two.

Its also obvious that the oppressed peoples of Palestine dont have anywhere near the things I just pointed out in my previous post.

Its not saying they are totally innocent by any means, but they are obviously an oppressed society. It is no mistake to see why they do what they do, and why Israel has to do what they do.

I dont agree that Israel should be going to the extent they are however. I mean less than adequate weaponry used by the Hamas compared to what Israel has. I have said it many times as well...its sticks and stones up against US high tech airplanes and missiles and bombs. Hardly any real threat to warrent continued aggression against an already oppressed people faced with constant blockades of food and medical supplies and having to rely on their oppressor to provide power when they cant get to a point where they can be self sustaining. It is usually very difficult to become self sustaining when your are supressed by an oppressing force.




Cheers!!!!

Its called war. Picking a side is all well and good, but seriously...people need to get over the "humanity" of it. War is ugly and horrible and tragic...it can't be anything else and be successful. (Look at the problems trying to be PC with war caused in Iraq,) The true story here isnt any atrocities; it is that the OP is for the Palestinians (or just totally out of touch with reality) and making a story of what is nothing more than war. Lock down? Yes...because they has been a great deal of military action by Hamas after they broke the cease-fire. Thats no inhumane; thats self-defense.

the jew's do better stay inside the wall they are building around jeruzalem. ..
better for humanity......
shhhhh historie repeats ....althougt israel is now on the booman side...

Originally posted by mrmonsoon

We can't look at the effects without looking at the cause.

You are exactly right...for once. So why dont YOU look at the cause of WHY they strap on bombs and launch rockets and attack their oppressor?


Thank you for pointing that out for us...as I have been trying to tell you for what, 2 days now and across 3 different threads.




Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
Its called war. Picking a side is all well and good, but seriously...people need to get over the "humanity" of it. War is ugly and horrible and tragic...it can't be anything else and be successful. (Look at the problems trying to be PC with war caused in Iraq,) The true story here isnt any atrocities; it is that the OP is for the Palestinians (or just totally out of touch with reality) and making a story of what is nothing more than war. Lock down? Yes...because they has been a great deal of military action by Hamas after they broke the cease-fire. Thats no inhumane; thats self-defense.

You need to study up on the history of it as well. This goes much further back than Hamas. Much further back than the last 5 years. Much much further back.



Cheers!!!!

Cause and effect? Israelis treat palestinians like animals because the attack Israelis? I don't think so.

The Israelis believe they are superior to muslims. They think a muslim is an animal and a Jew is an advanced being. It is the arrogance and inhuman treatment of their cattle (palestinians) that is causing the conflict. But u have to realize that the Israeli government WANTS this conflict, so they can have an excuse to take more and more land and kill more and more palestinians, until there are none left. That is how ethnic cleansing works. It is a sad situation, but the Israeli leadership is just as zealous in their beliefs as the muslims, because they are all brainwashed by religion and blinded by history.

Cause and effect is irrelevant. It is plain to see what is going on, but Israeli lobbyists and propaganda makes ignorant people think the palestine is a monster.

BTW I am Canadian, and neither a jew nor muslim, so this is a relatively unbiased opinion.

i would like to remind some member of the massacre at wounded knee in 1890 , when US troops walked in to a siouz reservation and killed 350 men , women and children.

just 1 account in a long and bloody slaughter of the indiginous indian peoples.

[edit on 28/12/08 by Harlequin]

reply to post by RFBurns


I am plenty aware of the history. There are valid issues on both sides. My point was that the OP was total propaganda crap about the realities of war. To be honest, I don't really care much about the middle east anymore. No one there has any interest in working with anyone else, really, and the whole world has been using it as a proxy battleground for decades, with the powers there happily playing along. You reap what you sow...no one is the innocent in that mess.

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
reply to post by RFBurns

 

I am plenty aware of the history. There are valid issues on both sides. My point was that the OP was total propaganda crap about the realities of war. To be honest, I don't really care much about the middle east anymore. No one there has any interest in working with anyone else, really, and the whole world has been using it as a proxy battleground for decades, with the powers there happily playing along. You reap what you sow...no one is the innocent in that mess.

It seems you are not really able to distinguish analyzing from propagandizing. I analyzed a situation you call it propagandizing because you don't agree. Tell me what in the OP is 'total propaganda crap about the realities of war'

reply to post by Mdv2


Making what is, in essence, nothing more than the everyday realities of war into "What is Israel hiding??" Does that really need explanation? Seriously? Should we do a counterspin thread about all those killed by Hamas offensives? Its war. Get over it, unless you can do something about it. End of story.

Zionist´s (not the normal everyday jew) are trying to do whatever neccessary to start a war in middle east. Mainly because they dont want the world to see what they are doing so they use the old magician trick with distraction. So a war would cover up for even more Stealing of the Palestinian people.

But be aware zionist´s one day the dog is gonna turn around and its gonna start attacking you and all what you have dear.

Best regards.

Loke.

It is apparent that the US is all on board for free elections and democracy, that is until the populace vote in some faction they oppose. This is perhaps the most hypocritical thing about our campaign for freedom. You are free to vote in who the US wants in power, otherwise, bye bye to any foreign aid. Sickening.

reply to post by saturnine_sweet

...no one is the innocent in that mess.

While you make some valid points I have to disagree with this statement. There are a lot of children being killed. The Israeli bombs don't have a homing device that latches on to adult Hamas supporters either.

Yes, militant Palestinians have killed Israelis over the years. But the Israeli responses have been increasingly disproportionate, such that their military "responses" have come to look more & more like war crimes.