What is Israel trying to hide?

reply to post by redhead57


Um...its not like you're going to throw funding at your enemies. Now THAT would be pretty ignorant. Wait, the US has done that, too! But at least they try not to from time to time...

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by Mdv2

 

"What is Israel trying to hide?"

The Truth...

this particular post could be life cahnging for me......

reply to post by pause4thought


Oh, Jesus Christ. The poor children. Yes, that's sad. But its war. Collateral damage is a secondary concern to achieving your objective. If you fail in your objective, countless more of those you are fighting to protect will die. Reality, folks. Try some.

No one INVOLVED IN FIGHTING the war is innocent...better?

It's about deciding which date determines where the country borders in the world are. I don't know the exact dates but as an example, 1000 years ago it belonged to Muslims, 750 to Christians, 500 to Muslims etc. So who's is it? Basically it's everybody's and nobody's country, just like any country in the world. Somehow American Jews thought they could just march in 60 years ago and demand land. With America backing them up, cause war is money, they got it quite easily.

Now they are expanding their borders with the walls being built, leaving the Palestinians without work, broken families etc. this all to prevent a few attacks from terrorist...that's the weakest argument ever, actually there is NO VALID argument to treat people this way. It's like saying in 1939, let's kill those Jews cause there are a few bad ones out there trying to control everything. It's one big gray mess and anybody in power is closing their eyes. But hey, conflict and wars makes weapon industries rich. So as soon as peace comes looking around the corner they probably do something to make sure it doesn't.

And just to speak for Hamas, what would you do if your land is taken, your family disrupted? Especially when you are born in that situation, living in one big concentration camp. When you see politics aren't working, desperation comes to many people... This is not the solution, but Israel is the one who gave decades of misery to many people.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by mortje]

another issue is the Christian Zionists (a faction of the Christian Right) , who support these actions and believe in inter-religous conflict , strong dislike of islam and believe in the second coming of Christ is near with the forming of the jew holy land;

so we have a group proclaiming to be christian and yet supporting the ideal`s on the zionists (not judaism i might add) - but to throw into the mix also say the jew will convert to christianity at the end of days....

and yet support financially israel...

reply to post by pause4thought


As for war crimes....you do understand how ridiculous that very term is? War is the attainment of an objective in a risk/reward environment, where any cost is acceptable as long as it does not compromise your power. War crimes are just crap fed to the innocent minded after the fact, to help the rationalize. That's why the loser in the war are the ones put on trial. I'm not a war monger; in fact, I think the US needs to get out of all the mess they are in, and let the idiots kill each other and dance in the streets with joy, if they so prefer. But war is what it is; the western world would be a better place if more people could wake up long enough to understand that.

Originally posted by Jacob08
Chicken or the egg? Which one has to come first if there is to be a peace both sides can live with

If you don't get what I'm saying. One person is saying they act the way they do because of the way they are treated. While the other says they are treated the way they are because of the way they act. If you still don't get it don't worry... it probably doesn't make sense.


[edit on 28-12-2008 by Jacob08]

...my head's gonna explode..........

I don't agree with the state of affairs at all. Both sides have made some very bad decisions over the decades. But regardless of the situation, what moronic leader decided it was a 'good idea' to send missiles into southern Israel in an attempt to correct the situation of lack of food and medicine? If of course, you buy that's the only reason they are doing this, which I do not fully buy.

How is attacking an obviously superior military power the way to make things right? I don't care how many violins you play, the amount of $$$ they are spending on these weapons is astronomical. If that were put towards their issues, they'd have a lot less problems than they do.

But then, I think there is more than a desire to get food and medicine at work here. They need to remove their own radicals before they are going to be able to address their own problems.

Somehow magically duplicated my own thread...

[edit on 28-12-2008 by fleabit]

There is a difference between a justifiable war..and a fabricated false pretense war.

Any of those sound familiar to anyone? Which one stands out over the other within....say the last 8 years and today?





Cheers!!!!

reply to post by RFBurns


You are correct.

However, the daily rocket and mortar attacks are not myth or theory.

They are a daily reality.

AGAIN, when group A attacks group B, it is perfectly acceptable for group B to counter attack group A.

Hamas's daily attacks are a matter of record, even if some people want to close their eyes and not see it.

The only thing fabracated is the Hamas excuses for attacks.

reply to post by saturnine_sweet

The poor children. Yes, that's sad. But its war. Collateral damage is a secondary concern to achieving your objective.

It's that kind of attitude that has increasingly turned people against the Israel's actions. You'll find that even in the midst of bitter war civilized leaders baulk at such a cavalier approach, whether for altruistic or propaganda purposes. Advocating such a reckless, callous, murderous policy does your cause no favours whatsoever.





I make no apologies for repeating that Israel is killing innocent Palestinians indiscriminately, in large numbers and without justification.

No one INVOLVED IN FIGHTING the war is innocent...better?

Much better. People can only respond to what you say.

As for war crimes....you do understand how ridiculous that very term is? War is the attainment of an objective in a risk/reward environment, where any cost is acceptable as long as it does not compromise your power. War crimes are just crap fed to the innocent minded after the fact, to help the rationalize.

I am not going to start throwing abusive terms at you. However I wonder whether, on reflection, you might realise that such statements would be worthy of the Nazi SS?

reply to post by pause4thought


It is truly sad that civilians on both sides are dieing due to the terrorist Hamas daily rocket and missile attacks.

The dead civilian relatives need to say, damn you Hamas, you are getting us and out children killed, you stupid animals.

STOP the attacks against Israel so they will stop counter attacking us.

We civilians should not be injured and killed because you terrorists only want to kill and don't care about the effects on the civilian population.

reply to post by pause4thought


You can not see justification of the counter attack?

Please allow me to give you some.

Daily Rocket attacks from the Hamas.

Daily Mortar attacks from the Hamas.

Here I will repeat my totally waky idea.

If the Hamas terrorists "DON"T attack, they will not be "COUNTER" attacked.

If people want the blood shed to stop, they can start with Hamas.

As long as they continue to attack, Israel is MORE tHan justified at "counter" ATTACKS.

Someone PLEASE stop the Hamas attacks, to save the children on both sides.

reply to post by mrmonsoon

It is truly sad that civilians on both sides are dieing due to the terrorist Hamas daily rocket and missile attacks.

The dead civilian relatives need to say, damn you Hamas, you are getting us and out children killed, you stupid animals.

STOP the attacks against Israel so they will stop counter attacking us.

I agree with you up to a point. Hamas rockets have the potential to kill innocent civilians as well (although they rarely do, in reality). The problem that has arisen over recent years, though, is massively disproportionate, indiscriminate responses from Israel, and collective punishment of the Palestinian people as a whole. The injustice just garners strong sympathy for the Palestinian cause.

But thankyou for coming in with a more balanced approach at this point.

As long as they continue to attack, Israel is MORE than justified at "counter" ATTACKS.

Only if they are proportionate. And only if they are carried out in a way that minimizes casualties from non-target groups. Otherwise the impression is left that all Palestinians are the targets.


[edit on 28/12/08 by pause4thought]

reply to post by pause4thought


The solution of third parties is also not going to work.

tHE REASON IS THIRD PARTIES ARE BIASED AND WON'T BE ACCEPTED BY BOTH SIDES.

Remember the war with hezbollia, yes i know the issue now is Hamas terrorists, well when the UN (third part) came in to stop the war.

They stopped Israel, but did nothing to stop the hezbolla.
Remember the UN post that freely allowed the Hezbolla to setup rocklet launchers right next to them, and fire them.....um...thats not helpping both sides, it is an attempt to shield one side while accusing the other.
The UN they cried like babies when the site that launched rockets was hit and they were injured.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


You're right: any third party, as you put it, has to be totally non-partisan.

But the answer in the short-term still has more to do with the Israeli government acting in a civilized manner. The siege and apparently indiscriminate bombing of Gaza appears barbaric to onlookers.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon

It is truly sad that civilians on both sides are dieing due to the terrorist Hamas daily rocket and missile attacks.

Again your putting all the blame on just one side of an obvious double sided problem!

Look if you aint got anything else to say other than its all Hamas fault and no blame on Israel then you are obviously heavily biased and hence we already know your postion on this entire ordeal.

Why dont you start a thread specifically for the side you support so you can put as much blame to the Hamas as you like?

Geez talk about a one way street!!!!




Cheers!!!!

reply to post by pause4thought


No it does not.

You are falling into the ignore what one side does and attack the other.

That is biased and leads to nothing.

It must be, ALL parties stop. Period.

No Israel did, so...... NO!!!

Both sides must stop, completely, or neither side should stop.

Fair and unbiased. You MUST say, we need to stop "BOTH" Hamas and Israel at the same time.

No, one stops and the other goes.

No try to punish one side but not the other.

NO, well, one side is a weaker military, then they should not attack a stronger military.

Both sides stop.

Both sides follow rules.

If either side breaks the truce, it is punished.

No, well it was only Hamas rockets.
NO, well, it was only Hamas Mortars.
No, well Hamas did this or that in the past.
No responses from previous events on either side.

This IS what is needed for peace.

(Btw, I am not unrealistic enough to realistically think this will happen)