Whats going on at yellowstone?

Gees, I have 2 friends pass away and turn my back on the computer for 24 hours and miss a whorlwind. Still haven't finished all the posts here - need time to catch up oh, and let's not forget my day job - I think I chose the wrong profession... loads to do. shakes head - when it rains it pours!

I Will agree that something is/was amiss. Why all of a sudden did we have a drop out of the instruments? Then all sorts of Phantom Quakes? A whole lot of funny business going on with Them.

Something happened that They don't want us to see. What that is I am not quiet sure. I am wondering though is what ever happened if it had anything to do with the anomaly (which I have been wonder just what that was) that happened at the end of December Here.

Like I have said for years, Sure would be nice it They shared all the instruments with us!

Originally posted by Arluk
reply to post by Trip3

 

I do accept the Scientific Integrity Order which is attributed to Secretary Salazar and its relationship to the Presidential Memorandum on Scientific Integrity which Trip3 indirectly directed toward, as well as the potential to impact information release - including Yellowstone. The order and memorandum certainly could impact USGS YVO.

To the best of my knowledge the Presidential Memorandum was the result of much more political issues than Yellowstone. My understanding is that it was to deal with ethical dilemmas and misconduct related to stem cell research, climate change, and perhaps international AIDS programs among other things..,

< snip >

< snip > This is not to say the USGS scientists don’t publish in journals, it is just not the only place they publish. As with any research organization I am sure exceptions to the norm can be found to detract from the overall organizational integrity.

I am glad Trip3 has experience in or with the USGS at HVO. I hope this experience influences him/her to use the best available science to explain the conviction that Yellowstone caldera produced harmonic tremor in January 2011. Being a contractor to the government I would assume the best integrity possible would be a habit to maintain compliance with the Presidential Memorandum regarding scientific integrity. If truth is being withheld there are whistleblower protections should Trip3 expose the government in a coverup.

I would find it fascinating to hear a “trained” geologist/geophysicist succinctly describe in layman’s terms Yellowstone data. Perhaps there could also be some explanation of methodology and logistics for seismic refraction studies in the dead of winter in Yellowstone at the cited locations

It would seem that without providing substantiation of claims Trip3 must maintain anonymity or risk losing contracts with the government for noncompliance with the Presidential Memorandum he referred to.

Did anybody else notice the similarity in style, approach, and presentation of Trip3 to RedCloak?

In the above quote I have redacted a few portions for the purpose of brevity, whith these being indicated by < snip >. I believe I am still representing Arluk's overall commentary in an honest fashion.

No, Arluk, I am not at any sort of personal risk of losing contracts, or anything else, in so far as a strict application of that "Scientific Integrity" memorandum. I am concerned about the welfare of other persons, as well as maintaining information channels.

I do not share your faith in the bureaucratization and politicization of science, and the scientific process. Your above bolded statement regarding the "overall organizational integrity" would tend to profoundly conflict with the application of that scientific process, in which dissent and challenge are an integral part. The politicization of science has not worked too well for the fabrication known as (anthropogenic) "Global Warming" ... errr "Climate Change", errr "Climate Disruption."

I also do not have any faith in the "whistle blower" process, when what is deemed valid whistle-blowing, goes through the same 'gate keeper' as what is valid public information - the federal government. Curiously in this process, there should be tremendous concern over something being lost in the 'mix', and that is "Right To Know". I have seen the effects of this lock-down in regard to Yellowstone, in very disturbing manners. One should not that this "Presidential Memorandum on Scientific Integrity" is applied fully to specifically, quote, " ... covers all contractors, cooperators, partners, volunteers, and permitees who assist with scientific activities." In regard to current considerations, this applicability has been pursued quite rigorously and to the furthest extremes of "assisting with scientific activities".

This 2009 Memorandum has been applied specifically with regard to Yellowstone, 6 months later, in the "Protocols for Geologic Hazards Response by the Yellowstone Volcano Observatory (YVO)", approved June 9, 2010.

IN section 4e, that document discusses "Information Releases":

As of March 2010, YVO issues a monthly update on the status of the Yellowstone volcano on or around the first of each month. The update synthesizes the monitoring information and expert opinion solicited from YVO cooperators and collaborators. After a notable earthquake, earthquake swarm, hydrothermal explosion or other geological event, the YVO may choose to release an information statement that provides details on the event and possible outcomes. During an event response or an upgrade in alert level, YVO will release daily updates.

Currently, the UUSS policy is to issue a press release after any earthquake greater than magnitude 3.5 within the UUSS reporting area for the Yellowstone region. They typically do the same after the onset of any notable earthquake swarm, especially those that attract public interest or include felt events. YVO then re-issues the press release as an information statement; YVO might include in the information statement additional content as it relates to potential volcanism. Press releases by any of the three YVO partners are normally vetted through the other partners. As discussed above, during a Volcano Advisory or Watch, YVO will release daily updates. Any separate press releases by the USGS, YNP, or UU will be closely coordinated with the public information team (or the Joint Information Center organized through the ICS structure) if there is the potential for related volcanic activity.

Section 5(2):

It is also possible that in some situations YVO would choose not to issue a Volcano Advisory, unless all three criteria (an intense earthquake swarm, rapid ground displacement, and a significant hydrothermal explosion) were met. The Yellowstone hydrothermal system normally releases abundant CO2 and H2S, but does not normally release the high-temperature sulfur gas SO2, therefore, any significant release of SO2 would merit ...

The problem with the above, is that the "extraordinary caldera deformation" was a precursor which occurred over 6 years, and then led to a series of minor quakes, quake swarms (with no eruption), few of which triggered any sort of 3.5 level notification response, which involved only voluntary public statement anyway, but all events have been working toward the same end over a long period of time.

This bureaucratic warning system, and its alert triggers, are not framed to address this sort of extended geologic time frame.

However, beyond this, the (presumed) evidences of "harmonic tremors" are not actually localized quakes, and do not trigger any absolute response, yet they are an ominous precursor to volcanic activity, particularly given the lengthy period of "extraordinary caldera deformation" and other associated events. Given this, the cumulative impact of events, when examined by these bureaucratic standards, does not trigger any obligation to any public statement, nor disclosure, which is entirely optional anyway.

What we have here is the public's "Right to Know" being suppressed by the bureaucratic process and somewhat arbitrary standards, with that bureaucratic process greatly inhibiting any sort of candid statement from any professional involved. This has become even more applicable in regard to the activation of Yellowstone's volcanism, which has been such a gradual and lengthy process, over nearly a decade.

These same oversights are glaringly obvious in the very next paragraph, section 5, "Alert Notification Scheme and Decision Criteria". Here they contrast Yellowstone to "many stratovolcanoes" regarding behavior, to justify this even-more-lax notification "scheme", while Yellowstone clearly is not any sort of stratovolcano. They're using the stratovolcano framework to evaluate Yellowstone - which is quite probably a very dangerous paradigm.

The result is, even if one or two geologists professionals, directly attached to Yellowstone, were to recognize serious warning signals, these would be muted by the overall stratification of the "vetting process" through political channels.

What we have here is the bureaucratic process at its most dangerous. This is yet another example of the perversion of the scientific process by its politicization, also seen in regard to "Climate Change".

And, no, I am not any sort of "RedCloak" nor any other previous member of this forum.

I'm done with this. I've got other things to do. I could care less if someone calls me a girl. Girls are great, I've got two sons because of girls. Yup, and I used my tub as a labortory to preform an experiment. Make fun of it you want, and ignore the scientific study that supports my hypothesis. My experiment was genius. Man, I feel like I'm in grade school again.

There were no harmonic tremors. YMR shows nothing. Trick3 did not explain why this is so.
That's where this argument started. And no proceeding because there's no sense if you can't prove your first claim.

Why are there so many strange things on the webicorders? Because the system is old and crap. It all needs to be replaced. Let's have some borehole instruments so we don't have to listen to the snowmobiles and bison farts.

Did you all know I'm an astronaunt?

Robin Marks is my real name. And I'm not an astronaut. But I can pretend.

reply to post by Anmarie96


I'm sorry for your loss.

Don't spend time worrying about this tempest in a teapot.

New mem. Here hope im putting this inthe right place.about thirty minutes ago got very nautious and headache that usually precedes a very large eq. Please dont be mad,trying to do from mobile phone

Originally posted by ashleys27
You guys on the thread can choose who you want to believe or not...personally I think Trip3 is on a witch hunt for Robin and Puter. It is obvious to me in the way he writes that he isn't about getting the word out and saving lives with his information, he would rather brag about his friends and his credentials and put 2 people (whom I trust and know they have our best interests in mind) down...I mean he seriously asked if Robin was a girl who blew up stuff in the tub or a guy...he also posts links to articles we have all read and know about as to support his claims.
Also he claims that he knew in advance the seismographs went offline...he claims a lot but that is all they are..just CLAIMS! Anyone can see that they went offline and make a story as to why and say they knew it before it happened. I can claim I have friends in WY who's water system turned into wine but would you believe me? Probably not...It's like the old I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy...
I am the queen of anxiety...believe me...Robin has reassured me MANY times and I would be the first one to run to him on this post asking to be reassured but I didn't, this didn't even phase me. I feel bad that it has people terrified but this person is more than likely not who he claims to be.
If those were HT's tell me why they would wait 3 days to do something about it and why would they not just "destroy" the evidence...it has to be fairly easy for them to do...if they don't want people to know about this that would be the first thing they would do...
Take this for what you will...I know there isn't sides to choose but I put my trust in people who have been with this thread from the beginning and if they needed to sound the alarms I know it would be about saving as many people and warning as many people as possible with facts and they would NOT be presented in the way Trip3 is doing things...this affects us all including him.

I respectfully disagree and feel that Trip3 has conducted himself admirably considering he's come to a forum where a few of the members have been the "Top Dogs" on this and a few other threads.

Now, I don't know what the credentials are of these people but from what I can tell, in just having read their posts they are what I would refer to as arm-chair geologists. They've done their research and understand what they're seeing and talking about, but are they correct on their every theory and declaration of "It's normal. There's nothing to fear"? Guess time will tell.

When someone who has actual in the field experience and can speak collectively to a group and share their professional experiences and thoughts, the "Top Dogs" in turn feel that person's there to attack them and in turn, become defensive and launch their own attacks - that's where everything goes haywire and confusion ensues as well because all of a sudden everyone's focused not on the sharing of information and facts but on the opinions of those involved.

Bottom line, nobody likes to feel that they are being presented in a light that might show that perhaps they were wrong in their level of knowledge, theories and/or assumptions.

It's human nature.

Aside from all that it's been my experience that people do not really want to know the truth, particularly when the truth scares them.

More human nature, I guess...

reply to post by theson


Go to thread: An experiment in Alternative methods of earthquake prediction

Originally posted by Robin Marks
I'm done with this. I've got other things to do. I could care less if someone calls me a girl. Girls are great, I've got two sons because of girls. Yup, and I used my tub as a labortory to preform an experiment. Make fun of it you want, and ignore the scientific study that supports my hypothesis. My experiment was genius. Man, I feel like I'm in grade school again.

There were no harmonic tremors. YMR shows nothing. Trick3 did not explain why this is so.
That's where this argument started. And no proceeding because there's no sense if you can't prove your first claim.

Why are there so many strange things on the webicorders? Because the system is old and crap. It all needs to be replaced. Let's have some borehole instruments so we don't have to listen to the snowmobiles and bison farts.

Did you all know I'm an astronaunt?

Robin Marks is my real name. And I'm not an astronaut. But I can pretend.

edit on 24-2-2011 by Robin Marks because: (no reason given)

I've not denigrated you being "a girl". I could care less. I just saw a video on my arrival and was wondering if that was you, or you were offering another's experiment.

I hope we all don't have to argue why something is not evident somewhere, as this would consume quite lot of time. Did I mention that harmonic tremors are not localized events and, as such, do not have any distinct epicenter and focus?

I am curious why you deem New Madrid to be such an area of concern, and what geologic process(es) might be contributing to this fault zone's energies.

Any idea ... at all .. why all the YS seismic stations were shut down at approximately 22:25 on the 27th and what caused the appearance, the next day, of pronounced p-waves at the two stations that were belatedly set to record, YJP and YMP?

(Yes, I'm aware that YMR did not pick up these seismic signatures yet again.)

reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron

When someone who has actual in the field experience and can speak collectively to a group and share their professional experiences and thoughts,

How do you know that Trip3 actually has experience in the field? Just because he claims to have? My friend, I wouldn't be so quick to believe everything that anybody might claim to be on a conspiracy forum, or any kind of forum for that matter, especially when they have just joined the site.

Although the Yellowstone Top Dogs may be "armchair geologists" as you put it, I highly value their opinion and assessment of Yellowstone from all the long hours and study that they have put into this subject. If Robin, Puterman, or any of the other "top Dogs" were to just join and come on here like Trip3 did seemingly to scare people, I would not believe them either. It takes time to see if a poster is for real or just full of hot air and only time will tell who or what Trip3 is.

As for all the Top Dogs on this thread, when they say that something is up and we need to pay attention, then I will start to worry.

To the Top Dogs: Thank you for all your hard work over the past few years that you have devoted to this thread. Keep up the good work because there are those who believe in your knowledge and trust your perspectives on this sleeping giant we call Yellowstone.

reply to post by kennylee


Funny... in this day and age, everything is backwards. The things people think are false are really true - the people they say you should listen to you shouldn't.

Let your heart be your guide.

Originally posted by kennylee
reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron

 

When someone who has actual in the field experience and can speak collectively to a group and share their professional experiences and thoughts,

How do you know that Trip3 actually has experience in the field? Just because he claims to have? My friend, I wouldn't be so quick to believe everything that anybody might claim to be on a conspiracy forum, or any kind of forum for that matter, especially when they have just joined the site.

Although the Yellowstone Top Dogs may be "armchair geologists" as you put it, I highly value their opinion and assessment of Yellowstone from all the long hours and study that they have put into this subject. If Robin, Puterman, or any of the other "top Dogs" were to just join and come on here like Trip3 did seemingly to scare people, I would not believe them either. It takes time to see if a poster is for real or just full of hot air and only time will tell who or what Trip3 is.

All reasonably true, Kenny. However I've no desire to 'scare people'. Personally, I've found the more informed and aware I am, the less fear becomes a factor. But perhaps that's just me.

I have done what I can to corroborate my statements regarding what has been transpiring, and perhaps others may find means to do so as well, at least in some small portion. Any future statement such persons might give in support, is entirely up to them.

ETA: By the way, I like your sig quote. Any idea why "Happiness" was chosen for the DOI, rather than "property"? I mean "happiness" just seems so anti-climatic and bland compared to the two preceding terms.

reply to post by Trip3


You're completely full of crap. A liar and a fraud.

You called me a chick. Most women would object this. You not a geologist.
And you cannot even prove your first point. YMR had no harmonic tremors. YFT had no harmonic tremors.

And the shut down could have been a blackout due to weather.

You're probably a teenaged boy. You don't argue like a scientist and you don't act like a scientist.
Shouldn't you have some real geology stuff to do. Like research papers and other tasks. It seems you've got lots of extra time to come out here and try to convince a small group of people about what you know.
Shouldn't you be doing that.

You're boat don't float because there's too many holes in it. Go call Coast to Coast and break your story there. Much larger audience. Or do you just want to focus on us because we're oh so powerful and influential.

Give me a break.

So, you believe that the continuing uplift is a real concern right?

Originally posted by Robin Marks
reply to post by Trip3

 

You're completely full of crap. A liar and a fraud.

You called me a chick. Most women would object this. You not a geologist.
And you cannot even prove your first point. YMR had no harmonic tremors. YFT had no harmonic tremors.

And the shut down could have been a blackout due to weather.

You're probably a teenaged boy. You don't argue like a scientist and you don't act like a scientist.
Shouldn't you have some real geology stuff to do. Like research papers and other tasks. It seems you've got lots of extra time to come out here and try to convince a small group of people about what you know.
Shouldn't you be doing that.

You're boat don't float because there's too many holes in it. Go call Coast to Coast and break your story there. Much larger audience. Or do you just want to focus on us because we're oh so powerful and influential.

Give me a break.

So, you believe that the continuing uplift is a real concern right?

Actually, Robin, I take tremendous personal offense at your assertion that I am "a liar", and you've zero cause to do so, which tends to make such statement a mark against your own character, rather than mine.

Actually the weather on the 27th was quite decent, and the trip from SLC to YS made good time.

No, I'm not concerned about the caldera uplift, which seems to have abated in 2010.

What I am tremenously concerned about is an abrupt downfall of that caldera...

... and also the cause for that cessation of uplift, particularly with evidence of magma expansion to the west.

However if one regards all "quakes" in a similar manner, then they manage to overlook these implications.

reply to post by Trip3


You failed to give input or insight or a look at the link I gave you? You completely ignored my post? A post which shows a real anomaly and asks a question. OK for you then - Thanks.

Any one of the rest of you "armchairs" wanna give me your thinking?

The fact is, if it blows without warning during this time of the year with all of the snow on the ground, there will be no use in even trying to make a run for it from where I live. The roads would be impassible and who knows what will be falling from the sky. I figure our best bet will be to live in our SUV for a day or so after it blows and wait until the roof of the house collapses. Then we'll see if it's possible for us to find some sort of shelter under the rubble and basically hold onto each other dearly until we die a few days (hours?) later. One thing I am going to do in response to the last 12 hours of posts is to keep the gas tank in the SUV filled just in case we should get enough notice ahead of a large eruption and making a run for it is plausible.

Here's the thing: I looked around the Internet a little bit more last night and today, and I found that Trip3 has been posting the exact same information that he has posted here on at least one more forum at another site on a thread he started on January 26th. In other words, if he is making all of this up, he works VERY fast on his feet.

Originally posted by Anmarie96
reply to post by Trip3

 

You failed to give input or insight or a look at the link I gave you? You completely ignored my post? A post which shows a real anomaly and asks a question. OK for you then - Thanks.

Any one of the rest of you "armchairs" wanna give me your thinking?

Apologies, Anmarie. I was not aware your post was directed at me.

I'm also not sure what you're referencing specifically as the "real anomaly" and what the "question" is regarding it .... both of which I take to be references to your "December HERE" post.

reply to post by Trip3


Thank you - yes, the depth - the spike drop at the end of the year?

What happened then - could it be relitave the odd signatures an/or instrument quetioned "problems"?

Originally posted by dallowayHere's the thing: I looked around the Internet a little bit more last night and today, and I found that Trip3 has been posting the exact same information that he has posted here on at least one more forum at another site on a thread he started on January 26th. In other words, if he is making all of this up, he works VERY fast on his feet.

Why is that evidence that he's making it all up?

When you have important information to share that you feel could affect many people, do you call only one person or do you try to get the information out to as many as you can and via any avenue that you can?

:

Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron

Originally posted by dallowayHere's the thing: I looked around the Internet a little bit more last night and today, and I found that Trip3 has been posting the exact same information that he has posted here on at least one more forum at another site on a thread he started on January 26th. In other words, if he is making all of this up, he works VERY fast on his feet.

Why is that evidence that he's making it all up?

When you have important information to share that you feel could affect many people, do you call only one person or do you try to get the information out to as many as you can and via any avenue that you can?

:

You read it wrong. What I am saying is that I am having trouble NOT believing him. I'm saying that what he said on the other thread at the other site tends to corroborate his posts here.

THOSE ARE NOT HARMONIC TREMORS AND YS IS NOT GOING TO ERUPT.

But I still can't explain what's on those graphs.

Puterman and Robin and co.
We all agree those are not harmonic tremors, but now "And that's the only thing that matters" is what are we looking at. It's no wind, no traffic, no avalanche or whatever.

I don't care about someone who is fear mongering, what we want to know is what do we see on these graphs.

I can make a plausible case for a lot of things. Tectonic and volcanic and human made. But the only answer that matters is what is it actually.

I am still curious ;-)