Whats going on at yellowstone?

1.9 2011/02/24 22:23:56 46.290 -122.221 0.0 10 km ( 6 mi) NNW of Mount St. Helens Volcano, WA
2.2 2011/02/24 14:41:00 46.286 -122.199 3.0 10 km ( 6 mi) N of Mount St. Helens Volcano, WA

This is a computer-generated message -- this event has not yet been reviewed by a seismologist.

Magnitude
1.9
Date-Time
Thursday, February 24, 2011 at 22:23:56 UTC
Thursday, February 24, 2011 at 02:23:56 PM at epicenter
Location
46.290°N, 122.221°W
Depth
0 km (~0 mile) set by location program
Region
WASHINGTON
Distances
10 km (6 miles) NNW (342°) from Mount St. Helens Volcano, WA
30 km (19 miles) S (171°) from Morton, WA
33 km (21 miles) SE (143°) from Mossyrock, WA
59 km (37 miles) ENE (74°) from Longview, WA
79 km (49 miles) NNE (22°) from Vancouver, WA
Location Uncertainty
horizontal +/- 7.7 km (4.8 miles); depth fixed by location program
Parameters
NST= 10, Nph= 10, Dmin=3 km, Rmss=0.96 sec, Gp=122°,
M-type=duration magnitude (Md), Version=0
Source
Pacific Northwest Seismograph Network
Event ID
uw02242223

You know what.... believe, don't believe... it's your personal choice via the gift of free will. It doesn't matter one way or the other.

People get warned there is a hurricane coming that they can SEE for themselves on TV. Do all they leave? Make preparations? Have a plan? Some do, others don't.

So what's the point of arguing whether Trip3's credentials are legit? What are Robin's? Putermans? Or any other?

Professional Scientists theorize all day long. Some are right. Some are wrong. Some are right in the beginning and then are proved to be wrong in the end. That's the thing about Science.

All egos aside, what's the harm in Trip3 sharing what he has with the members of ATS or any other forum? What's the worst that will happen? Someone may listen. That's all. In other words, nothing.

At at the end of the day, if it turns out his instincts were right, he can at least say he tried.

reply to post by berkeleygal



I know one geologist who's been looking more closely at MSH lately, Dan Dzurisin

Originally posted by Trip3
For those of you who imagine that this is going to come out on the evening news, or there's going to be some sort of "Press Conference" regarding the change in conditions .... that's just not the way this is going to play out, and it is deliberate.


Those persons directly involved in Yellowstone study and field work are unable to communicate by direct, public channels due to the lock-down on information on Yellowstone, and the full application of the "Presidential Memorandum on Scientific Integrity" .

Make no mistake, this Memorandum was instituted in March 2009 to deal with the escalation of volcanic activity at Yellowstone, in response to the period "Extraordinary Caldera Deformation" from 2004-2010.

This memorandum is not about any sort of overall concern of regarding "scientific integrity", but rather the lock-down of communications done by unofficial channels and the constraint of discussion of scientific data without advanced filtering by bureaucratic, political process. As indicated, this policy was instituted by the U.S. Department of Interior, and quite obviously isn't to control statements made about the status of Delta Smelt, or some other politicized concern, but rather something of far greater concern for the nation - Yellowstone.

I went back to read your first couple of posts, which were on page 666 in fact, and I would really like to know how you come about the last sentence in the above quote. Did a geologist tell you this and if so, then wasnt he breaking his oath or something?

I regret treating you so harshly at first, but you were attacking the people that I have come to rely on for info on this beast. With that said, and hopefully all the bickering finished, we should all agree to disagree. Now back to Yellowstone.

I would like for you to lay out what you think might be happening at Yellowstone, both from a professional and personal view. I'd really like to see both sides of this coin. My mom used to always tell me that there are three sides to any story, your side, their side, and the actual truth. Do you believe that Yellowstone is in a dangerous period at this time or is on its way to being there? And why or why not? And since the HT argument got us nowhere, we will dismiss that since nobody agrees on that subject.

Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron

Originally posted by dallowayHere's the thing: I looked around the Internet a little bit more last night and today, and I found that Trip3 has been posting the exact same information that he has posted here on at least one more forum at another site on a thread he started on January 26th. In other words, if he is making all of this up, he works VERY fast on his feet.

Why is that evidence that he's making it all up?

When you have important information to share that you feel could affect many people, do you call only one person or do you try to get the information out to as many as you can and via any avenue that you can?

:

Actually my friend Regina you supposition is incorrect in that the thread in the other forum was started on the 26th January. It was not until the 23rd Feb that he joined us here which hardly seems like urgency to get the message out. Actually more like he needed new pastures as the other forum was getting messy.

I do of course agree with you that if Yellowstone was in a dangerous condition that it should be promulgated but not by Chris Sanders or Trip or anyone here, but by the proper authorities. There is actually a real danger that should information be passed about that is incorrect or unverified people could be endangered unnecessarily especially if was to get taken up by the media.

In my humble opinion titles such as:

"*ALERT* Yellowstone Supervolcano -- National Disaster Imminent.

This is not a drill"

have no place here or on any forums or blogs. Anyone, geologist or preacher, blogger or reporter has no business making headlines like that unless sanctioned by the proper authorities.

Of course some think of me as CIA or a disinfo agent but who cares? Sensationalism hurts more people than some realise. You may be quite surprised at how many people lurk on these threads, and you might also be surprised to find how many take seriously what they see. Scientists or not we ALL have a duty to inform people in a manner that will not cause them needless alarm.

Originally posted by kennylee

Originally posted by Trip3
For those of you who imagine that this is going to come out on the evening news, or there's going to be some sort of "Press Conference" regarding the change in conditions .... that's just not the way this is going to play out, and it is deliberate.


Those persons directly involved in Yellowstone study and field work are unable to communicate by direct, public channels due to the lock-down on information on Yellowstone, and the full application of the "Presidential Memorandum on Scientific Integrity" .

Make no mistake, this Memorandum was instituted in March 2009 to deal with the escalation of volcanic activity at Yellowstone, in response to the period "Extraordinary Caldera Deformation" from 2004-2010.

This memorandum is not about any sort of overall concern of regarding "scientific integrity", but rather the lock-down of communications done by unofficial channels and the constraint of discussion of scientific data without advanced filtering by bureaucratic, political process. As indicated, this policy was instituted by the U.S. Department of Interior, and quite obviously isn't to control statements made about the status of Delta Smelt, or some other politicized concern, but rather something of far greater concern for the nation - Yellowstone.

I went back to read your first couple of posts, which were on page 666 in fact, and I would really like to know how you come about the last sentence in the above quote. Did a geologist tell you this and if so, then wasnt he breaking his oath or something?

I regret treating you so harshly at first, but you were attacking the people that I have come to rely on for info on this beast. With that said, and hopefully all the bickering finished, we should all agree to disagree. Now back to Yellowstone.

I would like for you to lay out what you think might be happening at Yellowstone, both from a professional and personal view. I'd really like to see both sides of this coin. My mom used to always tell me that there are three sides to any story, your side, their side, and the actual truth. Do you believe that Yellowstone is in a dangerous period at this time or is on its way to being there? And why or why not? And since the HT argument got us nowhere, we will dismiss that since nobody agrees on that subject.

Kenny, by referencing my last sentence, I take it you're referring to, "far greater concern for the nation - Yellowstone." I'm not sure why a geologist would need to have told me that, nor why it would be in violation of "an oath" taken, and what that oath might be given to. How might any such oath ever be appropriate in the the application of the scientific process under a public trust?

To me, the Department of Interior's mandate is the clear corruption of the scientific process by political control. I am far more skeptical of that process and those controls now that I have actually seen them in play. Without providing any specifics, I would not hesitate in representing them as heavy-handed, Gestapo tactics, having nothing to do with "Science Integrity", but rather the subversion of that integrity by its corruption with unsavory political agendas.


Videos like National Geographic's "Naked Science: Super Volcano" do a good job of expressing the scarcely imaginable scope of what might occur from Yellowstone, effecting not only this country, and our ability to provide food, but also the entire planet. Even ignoring the contended seismic signatures, I know for a fact that the lock-down on information regarding Yellowstone is truly chilling, and no longer evidencing what I consider to be a free society.





We're sitting on the explosive equivalent of 1 million Hiroshima atomic bombs, what would be an ELE (extinction level event) and we cannot diffuse it, nor move it.

Events like this start to make me ask serious questions and consider things in a new light, even such strange occurrences as the State Department calling back all of our diplomatic representatives from around the world on February 2nd, and what might cause such an unprecedented action, when normal communication channels would be sufficient for pretty much every consideration. Obviously this is entirely speculative, but it does make one wonder.

Originally posted by PuterMan

Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron

Originally posted by dallowayHere's the thing: I looked around the Internet a little bit more last night and today, and I found that Trip3 has been posting the exact same information that he has posted here on at least one more forum at another site on a thread he started on January 26th. In other words, if he is making all of this up, he works VERY fast on his feet.

Why is that evidence that he's making it all up?

When you have important information to share that you feel could affect many people, do you call only one person or do you try to get the information out to as many as you can and via any avenue that you can?

:

Actually my friend Regina you supposition is incorrect in that the thread in the other forum was started on the 26th January. It was not until the 23rd Feb that he joined us here which hardly seems like urgency to get the message out. Actually more like he needed new pastures as the other forum was getting messy.

I do of course agree with you that if Yellowstone was in a dangerous condition that it should be promulgated but not by Chris Sanders or Trip or anyone here, but by the proper authorities. There is actually a real danger that should information be passed about that is incorrect or unverified people could be endangered unnecessarily especially if was to get taken up by the media.

In my humble opinion titles such as:

"*ALERT* Yellowstone Supervolcano -- National Disaster Imminent.

This is not a drill"

have no place here or on any forums or blogs. Anyone, geologist or preacher, blogger or reporter has no business making headlines like that unless sanctioned by the proper authorities.

Of course some think of me as CIA or a disinfo agent but who cares? Sensationalism hurts more people than some realise. You may be quite surprised at how many people lurk on these threads, and you might also be surprised to find how many take seriously what they see. Scientists or not we ALL have a duty to inform people in a manner that will not cause them needless alarm.

Getting messy?

To understand the state of 'mess' there would be to take you to places entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

I knew what the title would mean, and what I would have to endure as a result, and chose it deliberately because of my sincere concern regarding the subject. At that point there were several topics about animal deaths and earthquakes, and my intention was to start a discussion quite detached from those topics.

I agree that qualified persons, directly involved with the science at Yellowstone should be involved in release of any information, and putting it in proper context. However, at this point, I've got zero doubt that the current crop of "proper authorities" are not operating by any sort of appropriate paradigms.

My intermediary was told in no uncertain terms to keep his ear to the ground.

Personally, I'm going with that proper authority.

reply to post by Trip3

Videos like National Geographic's "Naked Science: Super Volcano" do a good job of expressing the scarcely imaginable scope of what might occur from Yellowstone, effecting not only this country, and our ability to provide food, but also the entire planet. Even ignoring the contended seismic signatures, I know for a fact that the lock-down on information regarding Yellowstone is truly chilling, and no longer evidencing what I consider to be a free society.

Its funny that you mention that video. I just watched it today. Very serene as to what would happen if Yellowstone does erupt.

I would not doubt at all, that our government would keep information from us since I do not trust them at all, but thats another thread. In your opinion, what do you think they might be hiding from the public as far as Yellowstone is concerned?

ETA: Do you believe that the government has found out something that shows that Yellowstone might erupt soon? Please explain your concerns.

Originally posted by Trip3
However, at this point, I've got zero doubt that the current crop of "proper authorities" are not operating by any sort of appropriate paradigms.

Hmm, then why don't you simply write to Jake, director of the YVO, and tell him that?

He's a likeable fellow with straightforward responses to challenging technical questions about Yellowstone, and more often than not he will refer you directly to the expert on the information you are seeking if he can't answer the question himself. Why sit around and make such outrageous statements that undermine many respected lifetimes of scientific work on the matter? To get your rocks off scaring people because you are misinterpreting signatures on YSB? :shk: Bad, bad boy.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I've already written to the YVO to ask.

six-hundred-and-sixty-six, it was acursed after all...

Originally posted by kennylee
reply to post by Trip3

 

Videos like National Geographic's "Naked Science: Super Volcano" do a good job of expressing the scarcely imaginable scope of what might occur from Yellowstone, effecting not only this country, and our ability to provide food, but also the entire planet. Even ignoring the contended seismic signatures, I know for a fact that the lock-down on information regarding Yellowstone is truly chilling, and no longer evidencing what I consider to be a free society.

Its funny that you mention that video. I just watched it today. Very serene as to what would happen if Yellowstone does erupt.

I would not doubt at all, that our government would keep information from us since I do not trust them at all, but thats another thread. In your opinion, what do you think they might be hiding from the public as far as Yellowstone is concerned?

ETA: Do you believe that the government has found out something that shows that Yellowstone might erupt soon? Please explain your concerns.

edit on 24-2-2011 by kennylee because: (no reason given)

I'm quite certain that the considerations that led them to go up to YS on the 27th did not yield any positive "fruit", otherwise the constraints on information would obviously be lessened and my contact would not be so "bipolar' in contacts.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by Trip3
However, at this point, I've got zero doubt that the current crop of "proper authorities" are not operating by any sort of appropriate paradigms.

Hmm, then why don't you simply write to Jake, director of the YVO, and tell him that?

He's a likeable fellow with straightforward responses to challenging technical questions about Yellowstone, and more often than not he will refer you directly to the expert on the information you are seeking if he can't answer the question himself. Why sit around and make such outrageous statements that undermine many respected lifetimes of scientific work on the matter? To get your rocks off scaring people because you are misinterpreting signatures on YSB? :shk: Bad, bad boy.

I'm sorry, but you've obviously missed a significant portion of previous exchanges.

I'm already in contact with Jake's technical superior, who is quite well-versed in those "lifetimes of scientific work on the matter".

As it turns out, I've not been 'misinterpreting', anything.

I feel like someone's trying to sell me a time-share condo in Florida.

Originally posted by Robin Marks
I feel like someone's trying to sell me a time-share condo in Florida.

Time shares are bad deals, but I grew up in Florida and have family there.

Curiously it was my early work with FIT studying the deterioration of barrier reefs for ACOE groin fields, and scuba diving, that got me into geology.

reply to post by Trip3


Do me a favor when you have him/her on the horn and ask him/her of their input as to the drop spike in the lake in December - - is that why They shut down and moved instruments around? Yeah give the dog a bone - like the way you keep brushing me off - ? what's up with that? you were not prepared to answer things other than your attempt to come on here stuck on one subject to hi-jack the thread with only one subject for debate? Stop they crap! Wanna play - play nice.

reply to post by Trip3

I'm already in contact with Jake's technical superior

How very odd. Does the Head of the YVO actually have a technical superior. Perhaps you would care to elucidate who that eminent person might be.

Obviuosly Eric Klemetti considers him the Head of the YVO

CONTACT INFORMATION: Jacob Lowenstern, USGS Scientist-in-Charge, Yellowstone Volcano Observatory

Has a very sort of "the bucks stops here" ring to it don't you think.

Source

Originally posted by Anmarie96
reply to post by Trip3

 

Do me a favor when you have him/her on the horn and ask him/her of their input as to the drop spike in the lake in December - - is that why They shut down and moved instruments around? Yeah give the dog a bone - like the way you keep brushing me off - ? what's up with that? you were not prepared to answer things other than your attempt to come on here stuck on one subject to hi-jack the thread with only one subject for debate? Stop they crap! Wanna play - play nice.

Anmarie, I have not answered about the "drop spike" in that GPS data, because I don't have an answer.

However, I myself have lots of questions regarding other ground deformations, and specifically how they pertain to the magma expansion to the west-northwest.

SO how am I 'hi-jacking' a thread, in posting about the subject? If you all want to declare that Yellowstone is safe, and nothing's going on, that's fine with me. You're welcome to go with the apparent resolve of the resident 'experts'.

I'm quite confident in the interpretation of data, as I've had it confirmed with relevant expects.

I'm more than inclined to play nice-nice. Yet it should be no surprise that I do not appreciate being called a liar, particularly when the 'cause' is so blatantly transparent.

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by Trip3

 

I'm already in contact with Jake's technical superior

How very odd. Does the Head of the YVO actually have a technical superior. Perhaps you would care to elucidate who that eminent person might be.

Obviuosly Eric Klemetti considers him the Head of the YVO

CONTACT INFORMATION: Jacob Lowenstern, USGS Scientist-in-Charge, Yellowstone Volcano Observatory

Has a very sort of "the bucks stops here" ring to it don't you think.

Source

I once gave a kid ten bucks to watch my car, That didn't put him in charge of it.

You're a liar.

It has been a long time since i posted here.
But I have followed the thread, as well as other Earthquake and volcano threads.....Puterman and Robin have their **** together.
I can spot a liar and a sensationalist when i see one.....
that said.....
I am not so sure he is lying. Maybe he is wrong, but I am convinced that he is convinced he is telling the truth.
I don't like to see these amazing informative threads degrade to drivel. So if we can be adult, then great. Puterman and Robin, among others......if u feel he is a fraud, ignore him.
By the way....thanks to everyone for keeping me informed.