Whats going on at yellowstone?

Ok.
Found the YPK and the YJC crappy graphs too now for both 24 and 25 January 2011

theinterveners.org...

theinterveners.org...


And add to that YTP too.

theinterveners.org...


So it's clear it's not a glitch, but something did happen eastish or north-northeastish of YS.

Someone has a link to the other graphs who are a bit more detailed?
Lost the link it seems.

Dalloway, don't worry.

Trip 3, first came on here saying there were harmonic tremors on Jan. 25. Then he said that a vulcanologist, or a siemologist, I forget which, told him that they were harmonic tremors.

But he never answered my question. If you have ht signals at the north end, west, south, how come YMR, the most sensitive station of all, pick up nothing.

Someone post a screen shot of YMR from Jan 25th please.

And maybe throw in the Mt. St. Helens screen shot of real harmonic tremors.

Trip 3 came here and started ringing alarm bells. First, with the HT's, then citing the swarms and uplift and saying this is reason to be concerned. I'm not even going to address the inside knowledge claims. But the problem is he said the Utah, and YVO boys acted because they saw the HT's when there are none. Back to the swarms and the uplift. The swarms are long over, Yellowstone is barely showing signs of earthquakes. And the uplift has almost stopped.

Trip 3 has given me nothing of substance. One point raised was the water in Casper. He describes a dramatic change in PH. Well, Casper is a fair distance from Yellowstone, and if the water's bad, I'd be more inclined to think gas drilling caused the bad water.

When Trip3 explains to me how YMR failed to pick up the harmonic tremors, then I'll listen.
Over the few years I've had a discussion or two or three with different geologist, forgot, vulcanologist as well, love ya Jake, and when we've debated, they all approached the debate in the same way.
Trip 3 has an unusual debating sytle, to say the least.

Until I can wrap my head around how YMR failed me, I've got nothing more to add. You can listen to trip 3 if you want, but I'm not.

reply to post by Nidwin


Don't forget the south as well MCID. And the west. Look at YMR. Nothing.

Originally posted by Robin Marks
Until I can wrap my head around how YMR failed me, I've got nothing more to add. You can listen to trip 3 if you want, but I'm not.

Well, at least for that part of the discussion, that's easy to see why YMR picked up nothing related to the issues at YSB:

www.seis.utah.edu...

Just look at the relative locations. YMR is nowhere near YSB, and it may be more significant to keep an eye on YJC, YMP and YPK if corroboration of events at YSB are desired. Besides, HT's are generally lower amplitude signals that will have limited propagation, and only be detected by pretty close seismometers.

It would be doubtful that even if these were HT's (which I believe they were not on YSB the 25th Jan.) that they would be picked up at the three closer stations I mentioned, let alone YMR much further away.

If there was any consensus amongst YVO scientists that these were indeed HT's, it would be news already. No chance they are HT's imo, not by signature, not by consensus, or otherwise. Yeah they look a bit close, but so do other events. The pro's get paid to know the difference. They also get paid to keep their mouths shut, a possibility that has not escaped me as well. So I hear you.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


They show on MCID, which is on the opposite side of the park. And that's my point. If tremors are being read on either side of YMR, how could it not show up on YMR.

Originally posted by Robin Marks
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

They show on MCID, which is on the opposite side of the park. And that's my point. If tremors are being read on either side of YMR, how could it not show up on YMR.

There is no way in hell events originating in the YSB area would show up on MCID, unless they were larger events. And if they are big enough to register at MCID, they would cetainly show up at every other station in the park, not just YMR. Simple explanation: the same events did NOT register at MCID, or were mistaken for unrelated events at MCID.

We've been through this before how many times in this thread? YSB is northeast, and very supsceptible to registering mine blasts from Gillette- which by the time they reach all the way across the state, can become deceptively distorted into appearing as HT's. In addition it also has a lot of man made noise, as do the other stations. Sorting out the differences between the two helps keep scientists employed.

Easy Robin ;-)

I am a bit curious actually, nothing more.

I remember during the big swarm while everyone was keeping an eye on the western part and graphs, where the swarm was occuring, someone mentioned there was also some activity that could be found on the North-Eastern part, seemingly outside the caldera. You could see some small quakes, and of course the mining operations, on those graphs. (YSB, YPK, YMP, YJC and a bit southish YLA, YTP)
I always wonderered why I never saw anything on LKWY but that's another story.
That activity there was not linked to the ongoing swarm and was easily overshadowed by the bigger event, Your swarm. And yes, for me it's still Robin's swarm lol.

Now,
Someone, our new member and soon friend, tells us something and point out that there is something odd that can be seen on those graphs on the 24th and 25th of January 2011.

I know two things.
I am following and looking at those graphs regularly but it's the very first time I see this kind of stuff on those graphs, the 5-6 of them.
I don't say these are HT, actually nobody can but one thing for sure is, this is not BAU there. Something happened on the 24th and 25th of January and we still don't know what.

reply to post by Karlhungis


this is scary # guys lets not forget the quakes that are going on in australia and new zealand maybe its got something to with niburu

reply to post by Nidwin


Don't worry, I'm not upset with you for being curious and wondering aloud. It's when someone comes here and freaks out my friends who trust my humble opinion, that I get angry and will challenge. As you've seen, Trip 3 has upset people and caused them to panic. I've spent time trying to calm them down and they don't need to be needlessly worked up.

This I wrote to reply to trueamerican,

here's YSB jan 25

www.isthisthingon.org...

here's MCID

www.isthisthingon.org...

same signal

here's YMR, it's messy, but i love it, it's like me

www.isthisthingon.org...

no signal

and YFT just because,

www.isthisthingon.org...

no signal

any geologist, vulcanologist, or siesmologist will say the same thing. no harmonic tremors

And I agree with them and Puterman and you Robin.
Those are not harmonic tremors!

Sometimes it's easy to confuse s-waves or p-waves, always forget which one it is btw, with HT but we can immediately link them to a quake somewhere else on our planet.

But here, my opinion of course, on those graphs we do see tremors.

on the YSB graph of the 25th we see
Surface activity (black line between 08:03 and 08:05, black line between 09:06-09:09 and so on), normal stuff
But we also have tremor all the way till at least 13:00, probably later but ...

Question is,
What caused it.
On those graphs, as they are not, how should I say, precise enough I can't tell you if it's tectonic or something else. :-(

Also you would do well to remember that Yellowstone gets snow frequently at this time of year. Some of the signals you are going to see are likely caused by snow plows, and other cultural noises.

M.

Okay, just jumping on here real quick before going back to bed.

While I find the whole story and info very interesting, I have to say that after hearing more and 'listening' to my oh so clever friends, I am in no way convinced Yellowstone is on the verge of ripping open.

As always, I think everyone here would agree that this forum is about discussing all that is yellowstone, but there are extremely valid reasons that some are quick to shut down any talk that can not be supported. We are talking about a super volcano and so it can never be taken lightly.

I am still very curious, yes, about the readings those days, but I think we have gotten some good alternate reasons. The other stuff honestly we have already talked about (the graphs and articles) so it isn't until you tie it together with the other stuff (that seems to be a bit of conjecture)that it becomes alarlming. Trip3, I think you are accurate to say we should always be vigilant and keep our ears to the ground...but to raise the alarm there needs to be more evidence and facts on hand. This is just too important to do otherwise.

reply to post by Nidwin


OK, may I just say that that particular signal is NOT confined to Yellowstone.

I picked one at random from the list for today GAL1.GB..BHZ.2011.055

That is the same signal. As far as I am concerned I am satisfied that this is microseisms, and I can assure you that Galloway is NOT sitting on a caldera. It could even be Nibiru or Elenin for all I care but HT it is NOT.

Another one at random. HIZ.NZ.10.HHZ.2011.055

Same signal.

Same signal we see all year every year depending of the setting of the display.

Geofon Wagamama (indonesia) so not even USGS UGM.GE..BHZ.2011.055

Originally posted by Robin Marks
reply to post by Nidwin

 

Don't worry, I'm not upset with you for being curious and wondering aloud. It's when someone comes here and freaks out my friends who trust my humble opinion, that I get angry and will challenge. As you've seen, Trip 3 has upset people and caused them to panic. I've spent time trying to calm them down and they don't need to be needlessly worked up.

This I wrote to reply to trueamerican,

here's YSB jan 25

www.isthisthingon.org...

here's MCID

www.isthisthingon.org...

same signal

here's YMR, it's messy, but i love it, it's like me

www.isthisthingon.org...

no signal

and YFT just because,

www.isthisthingon.org...

no signal

any geologist, vulcanologist, or siesmologist will say the same thing. no harmonic tremors

edit on 24-2-2011 by Robin Marks because: (no reason given)

Robin.

I'm curious, are you the chick that blew up **** on the side of her bathtub and imagines this is an experiment in volcano prediction? Or are you a guy?

Just where do you imagine all this stored energy for the New Madrid is coming from for a horrific event there then the faults show no movement? Inquiring minds wanna know.

You didn't answer my one question to you -- just one : about why these seismographs all went off-line on the 27th, that they came online the next worming, and that there theren were pronounced p-wave signatures from seismic refraction, and how I knew this all in advance.

PuterMan, you checked the sensitivity of YSB? 1333. Maybe you can explain why we would see such small signals (microseisisms) on a station with those settings? True that is not a broadband station, but that is one mystery still to unravel...

Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by Nidwin

 

OK, may I just say that that particular signal is NOT confined to Yellowstone.

I picked one at random from the list for today GAL1.GB..BHZ.2011.055

That is the same signal. As far as I am concerned I am satisfied that this is microseisms, and I can assure you that Galloway is NOT sitting on a caldera. It could even be Nibiru or Elenin for all I care but HT it is NOT.

Another one at random. HIZ.NZ.10.HHZ.2011.055

Same signal.

Same signal we see all year every year depending of the setting of the display.

Geofon Wagamama (indonesia) so not even USGS UGM.GE..BHZ.2011.055

Microseisms, from a storm? We already did that "elsewhere". That's not even CLOSE to the same signal.

Whom did you contact for this explanation from USGS? And what storm were you relying on for this microseisms.

You also offer no explanation for the behavior of the seismographs over Jan 27th-28th. Not even going to take a shot at it? C'mon I played your insipid ego name, now it's your turn

reply to post by Trip3



I do accept the Scientific Integrity Order which is attributed to Secretary Salazar and its relationship to the Presidential Memorandum on Scientific Integrity which Trip3 indirectly directed toward, as well as the potential to impact information release - including Yellowstone. The order and memorandum certainly could impact USGS YVO.

To the best of my knowledge the Presidential Memorandum was the result of much more political issues than Yellowstone. My understanding is that it was to deal with ethical dilemmas and misconduct related to stem cell research, climate change, and perhaps international AIDS programs among other things, however it was written to be inclusive of to all government science programs. As it was to apply to all government science programs Secretary Salazar did need to make a statement to his affected employees to be in compliance with the Executive Order. This is what Trip3 pointed us towards. Once notification and certification of compliance occurred it should be back to normal operations. Yes, the certification process may be ongoing so there could be limits on information release. I have not found any wording in the actual Memorandum to suggest permanent censor of information.

I have good knowledge about land management agencies (Departments of Interior and Agriculture). I would suggest that most natural resource managers and scientists I have had exposure to were very upfront with their analysis and information release. NEPA process ensures this. It provides for very powerful challenges to errant government ways – both during planning and day to day management. This does not mean there was no bias from the Organic Act of individual agencies, however the USGS does not have land management responsibilities hence works outside the constraints of agencies’ Organic Acts and should demonstrate less bias. That is not to say there were occasional limitations regarding release of limited materials, but such limitations were the exception. I have heard the rumours regarding DHS limiting the truth regarding Yellowstone but nothing substantial has been produced.

I am still glad Trip3 brought up the potential for the Presidential Memorandum and the supporting Order for the Department of Interior as it has potential to relate to Yellowstone. We know that information has not always been released as quickly as we would like regarding Yellowstone seismic activity, but it has eventually arrived and usually concurred with ideas developed here. That speaks to the reliability of our own ATS researchers, scientists and informed individuals.

My experience with USGS researchers is they were among the most straightforward researchers. They were not influenced or pressured as tenure tracked individuals to produce as in academia or industry ‘researchers.’ Overall they did research to tell the story as it was. I would expect this is still the way they operate. Although the government branch title would suggest they are earth science based in their programs, this is not true. They have many biologically based research programs throughout the country. Their research is occasionally downplayed as it is often published in Technical Reports rather than peer reviewed journals. The technical reports often supply far more detail and information in a format meaningful to managers rather than being limited by the constraints of “scientific” publications. This is not to say the USGS scientists don’t publish in journals, it is just not the only place they publish. As with any research organization I am sure exceptions to the norm can be found to detract from the overall organizational integrity.

I am glad Trip3 has experience in or with the USGS at HVO. I hope this experience influences him/her to use the best available science to explain the conviction that Yellowstone caldera produced harmonic tremor in January 2011. Being a contractor to the government I would assume the best integrity possible would be a habit to maintain compliance with the Presidential Memorandum regarding scientific integrity. If truth is being withheld there are whistleblower protections should Trip3 expose the government in a coverup.

I would find it fascinating to hear a “trained” geologist/geophysicist succinctly describe in layman’s terms Yellowstone data. Perhaps there could also be some explanation of methodology and logistics for seismic refraction studies in the dead of winter in Yellowstone at the cited locations

It would seem that without providing substantiation of claims Trip3 must maintain anonymity or risk losing contracts with the government for noncompliance with the Presidential Memorandum he referred to.

Did anybody else notice the similarity in style, approach, and presentation of Trip3 to RedCloak?

reply to post by Trip3


Who mentioned storm? I didn't.

I believe I did answer your question as much as I am prepared to. Perhaps you should look back on the thread.

Edit: Here I will help you. www.abovetopsecret.com...

You guys on the thread can choose who you want to believe or not...personally I think Trip3 is on a witch hunt for Robin and Puter. It is obvious to me in the way he writes that he isn't about getting the word out and saving lives with his information, he would rather brag about his friends and his credentials and put 2 people (whom I trust and know they have our best interests in mind) down...I mean he seriously asked if Robin was a girl who blew up stuff in the tub or a guy...he also posts links to articles we have all read and know about as to support his claims.
Also he claims that he knew in advance the seismographs went offline...he claims a lot but that is all they are..just CLAIMS! Anyone can see that they went offline and make a story as to why and say they knew it before it happened. I can claim I have friends in WY who's water system turned into wine but would you believe me? Probably not...It's like the old I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy...
I am the queen of anxiety...believe me...Robin has reassured me MANY times and I would be the first one to run to him on this post asking to be reassured but I didn't, this didn't even phase me. I feel bad that it has people terrified but this person is more than likely not who he claims to be.
If those were HT's tell me why they would wait 3 days to do something about it and why would they not just "destroy" the evidence...it has to be fairly easy for them to do...if they don't want people to know about this that would be the first thing they would do...
Take this for what you will...I know there isn't sides to choose but I put my trust in people who have been with this thread from the beginning and if they needed to sound the alarms I know it would be about saving as many people and warning as many people as possible with facts and they would NOT be presented in the way Trip3 is doing things...this affects us all including him.

Originally posted by ashleys27
You guys on the thread can choose who you want to believe or not...personally I think Trip3 is on a witch hunt for Robin and Puter. It is obvious to me in the way he writes that he isn't about getting the word out and saving lives with his information, he would rather brag about his friends and his credentials and put 2 people (whom I trust and know they have our best interests in mind) down...I mean he seriously asked if Robin was a girl who blew up stuff in the tub or a guy...he also posts links to articles we have all read and know about as to support his claims.

This isn't about bragging rights. Even if I'm "correct" there's no honors, nor any sort of joy, taken from this.

I've not actually claimed that this person is directly "my friend". My original contact with this professional was through a long personal friendship, someone who had a Super Bowl bet with this guy, has a fishing trip scheduled, they share family gatherings, their wives know one another, and for months and years, could phone this guy up directly in his office, and got answers about specific questions regarding Yellowstone.

That all changed on the 25th when inquiries were made to the office, and the utter lock-down on info became nothing short of chilling. My own contact with this individual began the night of the 27th, and I was deliberately kept unaware of his specific name for a month.

Someone here referred to him (dismissively) as "Deep Throat"; we jokingly refer to him as "Magma throat".

Originally posted by ashleys27
Also he claims that he knew in advance the seismographs went offline...he claims a lot but that is all they are..just CLAIMS! Anyone can see that they went offline and make a story as to why and say they knew it before it happened. I can claim I have friends in WY who's water system turned into wine but would you believe me? Probably not...It's like the old I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy...

I actually have provided proof of my claim regarding the seismographs to one member of this forum, and its up to them to speak out on their own, or not.

Originally posted by ashleys27
I am the queen of anxiety...believe me...Robin has reassured me MANY times and I would be the first one to run to him on this post asking to be reassured but I didn't, this didn't even phase me. I feel bad that it has people terrified but this person is more than likely not who he claims to be.
If those were HT's tell me why they would wait 3 days to do something about it and why would they not just "destroy" the evidence...it has to be fairly easy for them to do...if they don't want people to know about this that would be the first thing they would do...

Robin is concerned about New Madrid.

How fast do you suppose the "speed of bureaucracy" is under government heel? How long does it take persons to drop everything and go for extended field work in remote locations, where they need drill rigs, equipment, and support personnel, such as technicians?

24 hours would be tight, in my own opinion. 36 hours is pretty damned amazing, again in my own opinion, and more so given the field conditions anticipated at the location.

Originally posted by ashleys27
Take this for what you will...I know there isn't sides to choose but I put my trust in people who have been with this thread from the beginning and if they needed to sound the alarms I know it would be about saving as many people and warning as many people as possible with facts and they would NOT be presented in the way Trip3 is doing things...this affects us all including him.

What way would you have me present things? I came in here starting off slow with a couple of blunt comments. and was greeted with a misplaced sense of territorialism, and ad hom slurs, from a few who have established themselves, even by your own recognition, as "Yellowstone authorities". That's fine. That's common all over the fruited plane of the Internet, no matter the subject or location.

I don't expect myself to be accepted as "an authority", and despite my geophysics background, I am not. I have however parked my my happy *** atop a volcano and done seismic work with USGS decades ago, which does make me a professional, like it or not. I myself did not even consider my own initial appraisal as valid, and immediately sought contact with professionals attached to Yellowstone. All I can say is that everything I've indicated here is true and accurate, to the best of my knowledge.