Whats going on at yellowstone?

reply to post by JustMike


lol, Mike I already said I did not know what it is, I merely argued the case of what it isn't, and said given what I had seen the CAMS answer sounded reasonable. But this sounds even better, possibly. I STILL DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, All I know is it most definitely isn't mother nature. Have a good evening if you are leaving us. Traitor! j/k later!

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Proper earthquake seismic waves (and also other types of ambient/background disturbances) have occurred many times in the middle of pipecleaner signals on LKWY, so I don't think it's the computer resetting. If it was, then each pipecleaner signal would have been always perfectly "clean", since the computer would be busy restarting itself. Just before or in the middle of a reset I would expect an interruption of seismic monitoring. During real calibration pulses seen many times on LKWY station (those wacky lines which go offscale up and down on webicorders), seismic monitoring is always interrupted.

Also, it's not very clear on webicorders (it's evident on audio recordings though), but each pipecleaner has a fast ramp up phase at its start and a ramp down phase at its end.

I don't believe they're electronic signals/noise due to failing equipment. They don't look and also don't sound very "digital" to me. They have also been there for several months, if it was a hardware problem it would have been fixed (I think, but we can't be 100% certain of this) before the coldest period of the year.

Just my 2 cents, though.

[edit on 2009/1/31 by Shirakawa]

reply to post by TrueAmerican

Errm, okay, I know I said goodnight but...but I am not addicted to ATS. It's...it's a compulsion...

Anyway... My last post was what comes from staying up too late after a day spent fixing translations of incredibly boring EU reports written by brain-dead bureaucrats. True, you didn't actually say what it is, but your explanation for what it isn't sounded so convincing that it was possible to imagine that what it is, is actually something quite plausible and rather mundane...

Though it's also mundane, I'm dubious about the computer calibration/restart thing because it was something that got looked at a while back -- a couple hundred pages ago or so anyway -- and I recall even finding some examples of this sort of thing on some webis. Can't recall if I posted them but never mind... they just didn't seem like the LKWY ones. How-everrrr...I ain't no expert and SpadeofAces could be right on the money!

If it's just a computer that would be probably the coolest possible outcome. You know, there's some perverse amusement in thinking that we might have spent Lord only knows how many hours wondering and worrying over a myriad of possibilities, only to finally discover it was just a com-pyoo-ter on the fritz...

Okay I am now definitely going to get some sleeep...

Mike

Well you gys are making some good points and asking good questions, BUT now let me ask you something...

Why are you guys fixating on this so much when it is clear that is not natural? Who really cares whether it's a CAMS or a restart pulse or the man on the moon?

It's obviously not bothering the guys at the YVO because they most likely know what it is, and don't have time to assess our every whim, let alone follow this thread. And frankly, I'd rather they didn't. They need to stay focused on what they are there to do.

I just don't understand that. What concerns me much more is what the earth is doing. I'll stick to that. But hey, by all means, knock yerselves out.

reply to post by SpadeofAces


Thank you, Thank you. This was making me nuts. I checked the air stations and they couldn't have been the source and I wanted to take back my admission that I was wrong. But the interfence is the answer. And the history of the LKWY demonstrates there has been problems. It has been offline at times and the YVO admitted there was a problem (I believe,check to confirm) and snow was accumlating on dish. It is restarting when earthquakes are sensed to recalibrate. This LKWY is a piece of crap and they need to put real money into the sysem and use boreholes. You guys are the best. I hate not finding the answer. And I'll always admit when I'm wrong and correct course in exploration. This answer is consistent and is backed with evidence. The location of the CAMS didn't not fit the parimeters. If the pump and condensor was making the vibrations, other montiors would have picked it up. This was specific to LKWY. The prior transmission problems and evidence of the signature provided, prove it is a noisy component. Wow my head hurts now. I am finally exhaling. I had to know the specific source of the pipecleaners "caterpillers or I would never rest.
I am 99% certain the signatures are from the malfunctiong LKWY monitor itself. Now, you guys are the CREW! You guys are just the bunch I need. We whacked around the problem until the answer was found. Now I invite you to find the answer and the flaws in my eruption scenario. Prove me wrong. I'll be the first to admit it. And I am the first to support the truth. So please, analysis my hypothesis to death. Watch

ca.youtube.com...

my experiment and listen to my hypothesis on a water-induced partial roof collapse Mega eruption for Yellowstone. Wrestle down that mystery, like you've all done here. I know my ideas for possible reasons for these particular signatures were peculiar. The point is they are possible. I was so sure because of the location. And what I believe could happen under the lake- the origin of the swarm. Great job all. I hate open questions. Watch and find the flaws. There's always an answer.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Well you gys are making some good points and asking good questions, BUT now let me ask you something...

Why are you guys fixating on this so much when it is clear that is not natural?

Who really cares whether it's a CAMS or a restart pulse or the man on the moon?

Took the letters right out of my keyboard. Mmmm, perhaps, misdirection? Fill up a thread with stuff that has no real bearing on the reason people would come to look at it, so there will be nothing of substance and people won't be able to figure out what's going on?

It's obviously not bothering the guys at the YVO because they most likely know what it is, and don't have time to assess our every whim, let alone follow this thread. And frankly, I'd rather they didn't. They need to stay focused on what they are there to do.

I just don't understand that. What concerns me much more is what the earth is doing. I'll stick to that. But hey, by all means, knock yerselves out.

That does bring up the questions, "Why has there been no definitive explanation for these events? Why are the people who are footing the salaries, that are obviously very interested, directly impacted, and also able to grasp the explanations, not given reasons for what's going on? How come no volcanologist, seismologist, geologist, has weighed in here?

reply to post by whoshotJR
Yeah, you're lucky, if Yellowstone goes, it'll probably just trigger an earthquake or reignite some of those extinct volcanoes in the Pacific off the states of Oregon and Washington, and trigger a super tsunami.... ..nothing to worry about!

reply to post by Robin Marks


Vibrations from a pump or a motor captured by LKWY station don't necessarily have to be captured by other stations (which are miles away from each other by the way: the closest one to LKWY, YLA, is 7.42 miles distant for example) too, if such device is placed very close to LKWY itself.

Extreme case: shake violently the seismometer by hand and the action will result as a magnitude 12 earthquake in the webicorder trace, while nearby stations will not (obviously) feel anything.

Of course it could still be electronic noise due to equipment malfunctioning, but neither hypothesis is 100% certain until we get official confirmation.

reply to post by JustMike

Hey, I didn't read all the pages, (got in on thread too late, darn!!! )
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I read somewhere, I don't know if I saved the link (Need...to...organize...bookmarks...now)

anyway, read somewhere possibly Russia has been "tickling" Yellowstone with scalar since 1976.....

Just googled spelling on scalar, found link I mentioned....article at link has GREAT info, plus a couple of charts showing old super explosions, 2 different cataclysmic events with fallout patternt, lots of other great info, this is a MUST read.
cuttingedge

reply to post by Shirakawa


I was a strong supporter of it being natural but the facts don't support it. It would have proved a part of my scenario had they been natural. But it isn't the CAMS. They are only two that I could find and they are on the West side of the park. Not near the LKWY. And the sample provided by Ace, is representive of the signatures when there is a problem. The LKWY has failed numerous times and to me the signatures are more and more regular, looking like interference running across the screen. I could have argued that the regularity is normal of under-ground water movement, just like Old Faithful. But the erratic behaviour of the LKWY itself is proof. Yesterday there is a big recalibration swoop and this isn't the first one I've seen on the LKWY. Lets face it. They need new equipment and they aren't getting the money. Blow a few trillion here and there on the banks and some wars, but don't give it to the scientist who are monitoring the greatest threat to North America and the world. Makes sense don't it. It's crappy equipment. If I had a shred of doubt I'd be arguing there was changes to the geyser system and the pipecleaner signutures were proof. And it would spread to other areas of the park. But that isn't happening. At least not dramatically.
And I think we are being distracted from the wholesale weirdness on the seismic front when it comes the squence of earthquakes recently. I could talk about Hawaii and Mount Redout activity at a time when Chilean volcanoes may be emerging. There is a documented connection between strong earthquakes activating this high altitude chain. There is nothing normal about the rare quakes one after another. Something is happening with the mantle itself and magma seems to be pulsing all over. Looking for an outlet. If indeed Mt. Redoubt erupts. I hope it takes the pressure off of Yellowstone. There seems to be a lull in Alaska at the moment. But who knows, I havent checked in the last few moments. I believe the pipcleaners are interference from a bad compoent and YVO should get new equipment and boreholes. Accuracy is everything. I'm still watching to see how a Mount Redoubt eruption changes the situation at Yellowstone. It should be interesting. I'd talk about all these things, but I got to give my kid a bath.

Originally posted by sezsue
reply to post by JustMike

...anyway, read somewhere possibly Russia has been "tickling" Yellowstone with scalar since 1976.....

Just googled spelling on scalar, found link I mentioned....article at link has GREAT info, plus a couple of charts showing old super explosions, 2 different cataclysmic events with fallout patternt, lots of other great info, this is a MUST read.
cuttingedge

The world's ruling elite (that would include Putin, like, go Google who paid for the Russian Revolution) are in on this thing together. Their projects are depopulation and slavery. Any rulers who last for more than ten minutes in office are likely in on it, doing their part to create a Hegelian thingy, what the hell is that word? Dynamic, dichotomy, whatever. All these fake fights, I even wonder about Chavez (that weird "now you see it now you don't coup"), Castro (who has managed to last for centuries, it seems; handy enemy there), Ahmad?n?jad (no disrespect Mahmoud, triage on Google name-spelling check, and was that really you in the photo taken at the embassy during that fake occupation?).

And what does the above have to do with Yellowstone? Maybe nothing, except a compelling distraction so people don't see the sleight of hand. Or, maybe...

Edit:

And guess what? It may be tin cans and a string that the flunkies are using over at UofU and YVO (or so some people would have us believe), but the porch brethren that think they're so all that are using state of the art, and the ruling elite know exactly what's going on there, there, there, and everywhere. Doesn't mean they won't eff up what they're trying to do.


[edit on 31-1-2009 by Spell2Speak]

reply to post by Spell2Speak


Anyway, from what I've been reading, I'd also have to agree that the "caterpillars" aren't exactly what I would consider to be from a "natural source" but could be many different things such as what you guys have already said about recalibration, or perhaps even other forms of electronic interference. But, I'm not quite sure myself about it.

(edit) didn't like how that sounded. lol

[edit on 31-1-2009 by ekhodust]

Originally posted by Robin Marks
reply to post by Shirakawa

 

I was a strong supporter of it being natural but the facts don't support it. It would have proved a part of my scenario had they been natural. But it isn't the CAMS. They are only two that I could find and they are on the West side of the park. Not near the LKWY.

There might not be a CAMS station, but there is another air monitoring station, and it is located at the Lake maintenance facility, which is very close to LKWY. The National Weather Service met station KP60 is also at Yellowstone Lake, though it's not as clear exactly where.

Here's information from:
www.nps.gov...

Other Air Quality Monitoring
Two other air quality monitoring stations are located in the park, one near the Lake maintenance facility and the other near the Tower Junction range office. The Lake station measures ozone, meteorology, sulfate, nitrate, nitric acid, sulfur dioxide, and speciated particulate matter as part of the CASTNet and IMPROVE monitoring networks (www.nature.nps.gov... ). The station at Tower measures wet deposition for mercury, sulfate, nitrate, and ammonium as part of the NADP/NTN national deposition monitoring network (www.nature.nps.gov... ). Winter vehicle traffic is very light past these stations and they do not measure CO. Data from these stations can be obtained from links on the Web addresses given above. Neither station provided data used in this report.

edit to remeove my rant about how silly it is to say this is anything short of a natural occurence, replacing it with a more eloquent statement,

I believe that the quakes are a natural occurence, I believe the earth is ready to move and shake and there isn't anything we can do about it but watch, and I believe that no government can either predict or produce an earthquake. There, that was much nicer.

[edit on 1-2-2009 by space cadet]

This image i found in the Hawaii Volcano Observatory website could be of interest for those trying to understand seismic waves on webicorders:

Originally posted by Spell2Speak
...Mmmm, perhaps, misdirection? Fill up a thread with stuff that has no real bearing on the reason people would come to look at it, so there will be nothing of substance and people won't be able to figure out what's going on?

Good morning,

Now I hope you are not implying that those of us who’ve been analyzing the “pipecleaners” (anomalous LKWY webicorder traces) have done so with the intent of “misdirecting” people. As for your "nothing of substance" statement, this thread has been running for over a month now, and if you go back through its 400-plus pages you will find several occasions where we have analyzed various matters in great detail, such as:

-- whether the various webicorders are influenced by wind and if so how much,

-- the way the information from them is collected and transmitted,

-- any possible links between quakes in Yellowstone and others in nearby regions(and ditto regions further away),

-- how to identify various traces on webicorders (by citing and posting examples) so that we can more effectively distinguish wind noise and cultural noise,

-- the effects of distant quakes that register in YS (teleseisms) and what effect they might have on the local conditions,

-- which direction the swarm/s trended and what that may imply,

-- the reasons why Yellowstone Lake’s discharge has been trending upwards away from the long-term average (and is still doing so) and what may be the cause/s of it and what that might mean,

-- possible anomalies in the regularity or quality of Old Faithful’s (OF) eruptions (which determined that it’s probably okay, really),

-- reasons why there appears to be shaking of the OF cam at some time (answer: the darned thing is 20-odd feet up on a tree trunk and the tree moves in the wind),

-- the shape of the magma chamber beneath YS and its composition,

-- the actual depth of the quakes and how they were trending to shallower depths (including 3d animations posted by Shirakawa, one of which was then used by FOX news without permission! ),

-- discussions of the most likely scenario for an eruption (hydrothermal is the winner, according to expert reports -- all posted and linked in the thread),

-- refutation of the claim that YS is “overdue” for the “big one” because “it has an eruption about every 600,000 years and the last one was 640,000 years ago” (the average between “big ones” is over 700,000 years and as the experts say in reports linked in the thread, you can’t use “overdue” anyway. It’s a volcano, not a late-running train…),

-- possible effects of the subducting Juan de Fuca fault on the (scientifically assumed) magma plume beneath YS (contrary to earlier scientific opinion, some recent scientific studies cited in the thread suggest there could be a link),

-- the nature of “earthquake clouds”: what they look like, what might cause them, and if they could be precursors for YS,

-- how quakes in Alaska can trigger ones in Yellowstone (sources cited in the thread) -- which is why we are particularly interested in what is happening with Redoubt (an AK volcano for any newcomers) right now.

There are other items that have been studied, but those are some I can recall from being involved in the discussions. Now, which of those above items have "no real bearing on the reason people would come to look at" this thread? All of these things (including the "pipecleaner" discussion, which goes back some 200 pages) either have direct relevance to what is happening in Yellowstone or are strongly associated with it, and if you are suggesting that they were posted to “misdirect” people then I can only suggest you take the time to browse the thread.

Those of us who have been involved in this thread to any extent, have no intentions of misdirecting people. Far from it: there is a wealth of useful material in here and a lot of time and effort has been expended in gathering and sharing it.

Yes, we have had a few apparent disinformation types make their appearance here. They usually only post once or twice (right after registering) then go away again. They usually seemed to appear when we got onto an interesting track. If you go back through the thread you'll find them. But we who've been posting here on this thread for weeks have a different agenda. We want to know what's really going on.

I hope you're no implying that we should not discuss certain things in detail? If so, why? If not, then why did you say what you did?

If people want to figure out "what is going on" then they can do what many others have done -- and read the darned thread!!

Regards,

Mike


[edit on 1/2/09 by JustMike]

reply to post by JustMike


I totally agree on this. Even though I don't really post, I think this thread is awesome. Once you get past the adjectives and such, what you have is a giant think-tank. People coming together and coming up with ideas, thoughts, theories, etc. And then analyzing them with other people. Running them across and inserting opinions. Whether any of these theories are right, is different. But, how do you know if you don't question? You can't get answers if you don't have questions. Star for you. hehe

reply to post by JustMike


Don't forget "TSG"...that is/was quite a discussion...apparently at least one spring has sprung up somewhere...

New Hot Spring at Mammoth 01-01-2009
www.youtube.com...

On a related topic...

Quake In Alaska Changed Yellowstone Geysers
www.sciencedaily.com...

Large Earthquakes Trigger A Surge In Volcanic Eruptions
www.sciencedaily.com...

Big Earthquakes Spark Jolts Worldwide
www.sciencedaily.com...

Area Of Influence Of Earthquakes Could Be Larger Than Currently Thought
www.sciencedaily.com...

Check out the related stories listed on these pages...interesting...

I'm looking forward to more spirited discussions in the future, whatever topics they might encompass...

BTW: Watch for Teleseisms from Japan Eq's...


[edit on 2/1/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Hx3_1963
Oh yeah..I forgot that one. But it's morning here and I'm only starting my second coffee just now. There were surely quite a few things I forgot to mention. The main thing is that they're in the thread and they're relevant.

To ehkodust: thanks for posting and welcome to ATS!

Maybe I should clarify something here. Back in Sept of 07, we had a thread on ATS where we were challenged by Skeptic Overlord (the site's owner) to solve a puzzle of jumbled letters that would, when deciphered, tell us the ATS "vision" -- what it is truly meant to be.

The puzzle read:

dollnean-ngcniualcy evo, evoui shleeoig cnteint itdntion , crtoea ayald bpisgni esstefmnf

We didn't know if this was an anagram, a code, a cipher, or a combination of these, but we wanted to find out! After several weeks and about 1600 posts, a lot of sharing of thoughts, ideas, and most of all a lot of supportive and positive team-work, a member (not me!) came up with the answer, which was:

A continually evolving self-feeding content creation, ideation, and publishing ecosystem.

That's ATS. That's us, because really, we are ATS.

The way we got the answer demonstrated the statement, and that is what has been happening on this thread. Yes, it's about "What is Happening in Yellowstone?" but it's also about us and the way we work together and support each other as we create and evolve ideas and content: all the links, graphs, animated graphics, reports and discussion in this thread are only here because we have been able to co-operate and learn from and with each other and are willing to do the work that's needed in order to try and find out what's really going on in Yellowstone -- and because we feel motivated to do so.

We have members here who live close to that place and who have posted on this thread, and none of them have suggested that what we're doing is distracting or irrelevant. Far from it: they are glad for our input, just as we are glad for theirs. My own feeling is that anything we can find, any grain of knowledge that could help them, has to be worth the effort. That's one reason why at times we seem to get so fixated on some topics. Well, it's my reason, anyway; not just because I want to know, but because I'm aware that there are people who will be affected if YS does anything major. This is not just some abstract thing like discussing the origins of the Universe, it's about Mother Nature and the people who could be affected by what she does...

I've learned a heck of a lot of useful information here, made a few new friends, bookmarked a couple of hundred links ( truly! ), and found that overall the desire to share and not just go on ego trips has been extraordinary, in the true sense of the word. And most of all, I've been reminded that at the other end of the cyber-link to me, there are people and they're real.

What's going on in Yellowstone could ultimately affect all of us. But even if that place stays quiet (as we hope it does), then we have still been affected, but in a positive way.

Best regards,

Mike

Well said Mike. The reason for my interest in the pipecleaners is to further identification of seismo traces.

On another note, had a few problems with the QuakeData program and myself and the Tester-In-Chief have been going backwards and forwards and sometimes sideways over points. Anyway, the next version 1.0.12 is on the site now. That is it for the full version for a few days.

www.4shared.com...

This has very slightly delayed the compact version, but all the current changes have been incorporated into that as well.

Edit for speeling erras

[edit on 1/2/09 by PuterMan]