What's wrong with Africa?!

It' something I discussed with a friends, with regards to the Zimbabwe situation. Why do people stand the atrocities that are being committed against them and it's mostly comes from poverty and desperation. If the all you think of, is how you and your family's will survive the next day or week, you really don't think of the bigger picture. As long you can make a plan for yourself, it's sort of like a "God for us all, each man himself" mentality. This I was told by a few guys from Zim with whom I had lunch with a few weeks back.

Not all of us agree with what our governments are doing, the corruption and other under-handed schemes that go on. And I'm glad that in my country (South Africa) people can speak out against the govt, that they're other political parties that give us hope and other options that the usual policies and ideas.

Someone posted that greed and power also have a lot to do with the situation we see now. Most of the govts/parties in power, came into power, taking over from the colonial powers. They gained the trust of the people by "freeing" them from the colonialists, enabling people to vote for the govt they wanted, in some countries (like S.Africa) some people got free electricity, education, water, tarred roads,child support grants, things they had to pay for with previous "oppressor" govts. Our parents and grandparents vote based on sentiment, because they believe that if it weren't for that party/govt, then I (in my early 20s) wouldn't be driving the car that I drive, working were I work or live in the formerly "whites only" suburbs. So even if the govt now may be corrupt and the people in place don't hold the same ideals as their "elders", our parents/grandparents will still vote the party that gave them freedom.

It's now up to us as the youth, to start putting the right people in power, who are not burdened by the weight of the past (apartheid and all other horrible things still being used by political parties to gain votes). I respect all the people who sacrificed so much for me to get where I am but I do not look at a white person or any other person who's not black as my enemy or with mistrust based on race. I just want to live in a country with equal opportunities for everyone, where people dont feel frightened because of crime or many die from diseases like cholera in 2008 (which is ridiculous). I believe there are many other people in African countries who feel the same way.

reply to post by thedeadtruth


Conflict, every country has had conflict and most have succeeded.

Colonization is something that I think was more a benefit than a curse to this continent.

AIDS, I don't think this has merit as it is a relatively recent problem in the time line of our species.

The point about technology makes sense. I can understand that in an environment so rich with resources the natives became complacent, which eventually lead to their inability to be inventive.

Originally posted by Raustin
I have always wondered why despite the abundance of natural resources, Africa remains such a cesspool. Why is their so much suffering, killing, social strife, lack of infrastructure and displacement of people? I always wanted to blame these problems on poverty and lack of funding to these nations but I am starting to doubt that is the real problem. I was thinking maybe it was all the corrupt government that seems to flourish, but am now thinking that may not be the problem. How can such a resource rich continent not make advancements? Have all the people been socially engineered to just accept the atrocities committed against them? Are the super powers trying to keep African nations from turning profit in order to essentially steal the resources? I thought the first humans came from Africa, why are they still behind? What's going on over there?

-One more thing, I hope people can avoid turning this into a racial thing, that's not at all what I'm going for.

[edit on 27-12-2008 by Raustin]

the real problem is that europeans re drew long standing tribal bordeers tosuit themselves and were under colonial control for hundreds of years so i think that might be a part of the problem

you wont like the answer.i bet most have you haven been to africa or know any afrcans but you've already made yor minds up. the plain answer is that most of them are LAZY.they will admit to that.note i said most.not all.
Its not really a crazy cocept is it? do you know any lay ppl? i bet you do

reply to post by salparadise


Um, what? I don't identify with any of those things, and I would like to know what you meant by your post. I'm not trying to defame Africans, I am trying to understand what the problem is. Can you maybe elaborate on the point you were trying to make?

Originally posted by JungleMike
As Africa is tribal, it's people are accustomed if not acclimated to being ruled by a single leader. Some tribes do have a cabal of elders who oversee villages but most tribes have a leader who is fairly free to exercise his will.
European colonialization had many flaws and abuses. It did bring medicine to Africa and Africa still needs such basic medical care. Aids treatment, yes, but have you seen deaths due to Malaria? I had a classmate in school die of rabies! Colonial administrations failed to train nationals in meaningful posts. Some of this was by design to keep africans "in their place" and partially due to attutudes that african could not learn to handle more complex duties. When European powers left, there was a vaccuum of administrators, technical and financial experts. Untrained or half-trained nationals had responsibilities thrust on them beyond their levels of training (not capability). "Strong-man"-ism took over. Strong-men resorted to tribalism in filling posts. Strong-men resorted to nespotism to filling financially lucrative positions. Corruption abounded. European weapons kept strong-men in power. Lack of infrastructure keeps countries poor and struggling. Non-African countries wanting african resources prop up strong-men (this applies to countries such as China and Russia) to gain favor and access to those resources.

Those are all legitimate points. However the EXACT same thing occurred in the middle east. The middle eastern countries are also VERY tribal, plus their countries borders were drawn randomly by European powers and do NOT reflect the cultural groups at all.

They also tend to be ruled best by a strong/dictator leader. However having said all that, how come when they threw off the shackles of European power they managed to keep their societies up and running?

Sure they are prone to wars and fighting, but they kept the lights on. They kept the water systems clean. They kept the power plants working and the oil rigs pumping and they have not allowed themselves to be swept under with massive disease and starvation because their farms went idle. And not all middle eastern countries have oil, so that cannot be used as an excuse.

Why were the Africans unable to do that? You think it is because the white men simply didn’t “teach” the Africans how to maintain their own infrastructures and then the white guys left and the Africans had no clue? Ummm…that makes no sense. And even if such a thing were possible, why didn’t that happen in the Middle East?

We should watch what happens to the Middle east in the next year as the price of petroleum has collapsed. Much of the stability in the region is due to treasuries being filled with petro dollars. There are ME govts that have set their budgets based on USD 65-70 per barrel, it is now half the required price point to maintain balanced budget. We may see stability go right out the window if the price does not recover in the next 18 months.




When Africa selects a strong leader ( Patrice Lamumba) that seeks independance and the will to use resources to develop from within, western powers kill them. When Africa finds Diamonds, Debeers controls it. When Africa finds Oil, Royal Dutch Shell controls it. Manganese, Tantalum, Gold, Gems, any resource that produces profits, are controlled by forces outside the nation and the profits and Capital flow out of the nation
The modern economic History of Africa is foreign exploitation by any means neccesary.


The History of Rwanda is one example of foreign influence playing tribal jealousy and history against another tribe, there are many others. Belgian govts carry a cross for what occured in Rwanda, they will need to come to terms with what they did.


India has its own extreme poverty, severe health problems, and is not a single culture. The caste system is still alive and well, and women are still executed by villages after condemnation as a Witch. Bride burnings are still occuring, and "honor killings" take the lives of 5000+ women each year. India may have not taken the same path as Africa, but its path is not much better. India never underwent the revolutions that brought China kicking and screaming into the 20th and 21st century.


Whats wrong with Africa....nothing that self determination and the absense of western meddling cannot solve.

I remember when I was a kid over 30 years ago and things in Africa were exactly the same as they are today. Nothing has changed. Education is still almost non existent, refugee's wonder from one place to the next turning prime land into desert, children starve due to over breeding and tribal warfare is rife.

Where has the billions of dollars in aid gone? What has it achieved? Very little IMHO.

The saying goes,

"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish and you have fed him for a lifetime”

I feel the first world has tried to teach Africa how to fish for decades now, yet nothing changes. This is not the fault of the first world though it's always convenient to point blame in that direction.

Sooner or later Africa has to learn to stand on it's own two feet. It cannot remain forever reliant on the good will of other countries. That's not a point of view, that's the harsh reality.

Look at India with their space program for instance.. despite having incredible poverty, they're making a good fist of it.

To play the devils advocate for a second, if satellites weren't beaming pictures of starving masses into our TV's on a daily basis in order to make us feel guilty or somehow responsible, natural selection (which is mother nature's way) would have taken care of things a long time ago.

Are we only prolonging the agony? Just thought I'd put that question out there.

IRM

Hello Infra Man and other friends.

You wvrite " ... has it achieved? Very little IMHO."

I exactly agree with you, somebody must have spoken this out !!!!!

The speach of Mugabe I will never, never, never, never surrender links to Churchhills Iwillneverneverneverup, with the difference, that Mugabe said 4 times the term never. I today phoned with my friend in Chicago, she believes, that Robert Mugabe was replaced by a CLONE. Isnt that weired in what world we live in. it breaks my heart to see all these brown skinned Babies cry and suffer.

Peace, 749 :

Evolution at work.


Europeans had to fight through the harsh winter lands to survive, and in the process evolution made them more intelligent and more evolved, in order to survive.


Africans never had to do any of this. Nice warm climate meant they had to make little to no shelter, and an abundance of animals everywhere meant that they never had to search for food to eat. So they did not evolve at the same rate as the Europeans did, and lag behind in intelligence and skills.


Simple logic, that the people with more intelligence and skills, will make more developed civilizations.

Originally posted by infolurker
Two words sums it up:

Greed & Corruption

Don't forget an extreme amount of that. I have family who lived in Algeria and Ethiopia for a while back in the 60's and 70's and back then it wasn't nearly as bad as it is now. I make the occasional trip to Algiers but I haven't been down near any of the other countries but trust me. It is an extreme amount of greed & corruption. Add that with foreign interests and you have a recipe for failure. There are so many things wrong with the continent that stem from those two problems that make it impossible to fix.

Good question.
I actually have an african friend from Zaire and he told me how its common knowledge there that foreign forces influence them, cause wars and steal land and resources - the local population never sees the positive effects they were promised. Which in turn causes more unrest. But the corporations there do not care, having the govt on their side.
The West is there to plunder, put in place corrupt puppet govt and hinder those who try to challenge this rule.

Thats not to mention the trade barriers preventing africans to export their products. Have you ever seen an african brand outside of african specialized shops?

Originally posted by Koppy
Evolution at work.

Europeans had to fight through the harsh winter lands to survive, and in the process evolution made them more intelligent and more evolved, in order to survive.

Africans never had to do any of this. Nice warm climate meant they had to make little to no shelter, and an abundance of animals everywhere meant that they never had to search for food to eat. So they did not evolve at the same rate as the Europeans did, and lag behind in intelligence and skills.

Oh...no. Apparently 150 years of European occupation has caused severe problems, and stunted their ability to govern themselves or create working societies that can feed the masses.

But see, the 50,000 years they spent isolated from other populations, the 50,000 years that apparently did NOT require them to advance in any way, either via technology or society, those 50,000 years had NO impact! Just the last 150 years counts.

And another thing...the next time you see pictures of starving African babies on TV....take a moment and look at the ADULTS. Ever notice how many horribly thin and shriveled starving babies have momma's with HUGE asses?

Ever wonder why? And they typically do not even SHOW the men. Why is that? Are there NO MEN in Africa and all of those babies were born via asexual reproduction?? Why so few, if any, men shown when the starving babies are broadcast all over western television screens?

Because the corruption in Africa starts at the lowest level, it does not just flow from the top down. In many African cultures the men eat first, the women second, and the children last. Yes, really. That is why almost all starvation propoganda pieces show healthy, even fat, adults with horribly starved children.

Their problems are rooted at every level of society, not just corrupt governments.


[edit on 28-12-2008 by Sonya610]

There's a lot of talk and fancy theories here,

With respect guys, these colonial+corruption theories hold some weight, but you all missing a major factor, which is the economic warfare being waged on Africa by institutions such as the I.M.F and World Bank.

I studied Latin American and World history as a big part of my degree, and have gone on to study economic warfare on my own. It is a deliberate holocaust, and one day our grandchildren will ask us what we did about it...

There have been massive demonstrations against the IMF all over Europe but Americans are told nothing about it...

IMF treatment:

1) Lend corrupt dictator/administration billions of dollars.
2) Corrupt dictator + administration waste money on cars/military/crap
+ funnel it to offshore bank accounts.
3) Country is eventually unable to make interest payments, eventually defaults on debt. Dictator normally long gone by then.
4) IMF team comes in and orders "structural adjustment program" - even less spending on healthcare and schools.
5) Country falls to its knees.

Don't give me any of this stuff about tribes, lazy black dudes, or any of the rest of this social pseudo-science. It is ignorant and deeply racist.

An excellent introductory essay...
www.serendipity.li...

EDIT: God I've been reading some of the things you people have written and it makes me so damn angry. I cannot believe you are writing this stuff....


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Let's also not forget where the weapons for the conflicts in Africa are coming from. It's not like the rival tribes are manufacturing their own AK-47s. Someone is providing those guns and somebody else is making sure the right people get the money to buy them with.

It's coming from the former colonial powers (who always have done and still are doing far more harm than good) and also from their rivals in Russia and China.

These people see Africa's wealth as theirs and the people on the land as obstacles to be overcome and turned into pawns.

Washington D.C. has a lot more say over who lives and dies in Africa than the African people themselves do.

reply to post by PharYkza


This is exactly the type of attitude Africa needs right now. The only way Africa can free itself from political and economic destitution is through the use of human capital, and a strong belief in oneself to provide for future generations. If a country's citizens are only capable of thinking ahead a few weeks, and are solely concerned with feeding their families "today", and not "tomorrow" then they will forever be stuck in that situation.

Africa needs to utilize more of the capital originating on the continent, as opposed to capital brought in through international investment and foreign aid, and try as best they can to reject multinational corporations, who serve only their own national interests.

I'm thinking a combination of local investment in human capital and philanthropy on the part of some very rich individuals abroad (i.e. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation) is integral in at least finding a path for Africa to tread on in some distant future. Although charity benefits the most underprivileged people, fulfilling their short term needs, and thus allowing them to pursue more important investments; the funds always seem to dry up before the benefactors are really able to make a substantial effort at sustainability.

The solution must originate in Africa. However, one quickly realizes that that becomes very difficult in the presence of corrupt governments, rebel militias, and seemingly interminable tribal warfare; constant disease, a deficiency in education, and lack of entrepreneurial interest on the part of citizens themselves.

Link to Gates Foundation:
www.gatesfoundation.org...

[edit on 28-12-2008 by cognoscente]

reply to post by Koppy


You should probably be a bit more careful with your semantics there, just so none is confused or offended. I assume you mean that European culture has become superior through memetic evolution, and not that Europeans themselves have somehow become better endowed peoples genetically or otherwise.