Scores killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza

Originally posted by RFBurns
If you have read the history, you will see that Palestine is concerned about protecting their civilians too.

Right! That's why they launch mortars from school grounds! Now it makes sense!

Apparently, they changed their minds now didnt they. Why occupy a territory freely given to a people and then supress that people and surround them with blockades and occupation?!!

It didn't start that way. Palestinians (read Hamas) brought it upon themselves by continuing to attack. Israel did the only thing they could - stop the supplies from getting in.

Now remember, Egypt is on the other border - why hasn't Egypt helped their fellow Islamics? Why is Egypt right now bolstering their troops on the Gaza border? (hint: to prevent the Palestinians from entering Egypt)

Palestinians want an independent nation, then build it & quit attacking Israel.

Please, oh please provide proof of this!! I beg you to find this proof and clearly show us that Palestinian kids are taught this!!!

Here and here and here and here and
www.theprismgroup.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">here Need more? I'll get them for you!

As stated in the peace treaties signed, thats all they wanted was their own nation, and their own right to exsist and the right to a peacefull one.

and yet, they continue to launch indiscriminate, unprovoked attacks against Israeli civilians. Kinda hard to believe they only want peace when their actions are saying something completely different

Is that another window dressing rosey peachy name to make it sound more appealing to the public...they do strategic strikes and not outright targeting of innocent civilians like we have just witnessed on international news coverage?

And Hamas has no responsibility for putting those mortar launchers in the middle of civilian areas and schools? Right???

Actually there is, leave Palestine alone, get out of the territory that was given to the Palestines, let Palestine be its own soverign nation and simply leave them alone.

If Israel wants peace, then they have to be willing to follow through with that peace and stick to their agreements.

What area that was given to the Palestinians? Oh wait, you mean the entire country called Israel today? Of course you do, because that is what the Palestinians think and you sympathize with them.

Let's see Palestine become a sovereign nation, that is self sufficient and stop the random attacks on Israel.

Israel does not attack first - they only respond to the attacks.

Let's see the Palestinians follow through on their own words



[edit on 12/27/08 by redhatty]

Originally posted by Mdv2
reply to post by redhead57

 

Finally someone who gets it. Don't side with Hamas and Israeli government terrorists otherwise you will be thrown into the darkest dungeons of gitmo, by the United States of Hypocrisy.

Please read the earlier pages of this thread. I have covered this very point about 5 times.

Thank you.



Cheers!!!!

What i gather from all this is
Isreals logic: 2 days off unguided "ghetto" style of attacks warrents a counter attack using over 60 fighter jets and barbaric strikes that show no mercy to anyone
Terrorist or civilian

Originally posted by foremanator
Man
There is just to much disagreement here on who is right and who is wrong.
Hang on I will go ask God what he thinks BRB...

Ok so I asked him and he say's "Thou shall not kill" He says he gave some guy "Moses" that message years ago. He wants to know if Mosses gave you the message or not? he said there should have been a list with ten rules on it.

Boy it's hard giving a breakdown to some folks. The Israeli issue is not a religious matter. Zionism is a political movement and like fascism it is race selective. For the Palestinians it is about self determination and freedom.

The most irreligious body of people in the world are the zionists. The country of Israel has more atheists than any country of similar size. Israel is recruiting homosexuals for the World Gay Games in the Netherlands? as we speak. While human rights for people who happen to be gay is important, Israel's behaviour is not about religiosity.

God has nothing to do with the monstrosity that is Israel. We are all human beings and have free will. What Israel is and does, is because it wills it. The same goes for the Palestinians who will their freedom by all means necessary.

Originally posted by Runningtobabylon
What i gather from all this is
Isreals logic: 2 days off unguided "ghetto" style of attacks warrents a counter attack using over 60 fighter jets and barbaric strikes that show no mercy to anyone
Terrorist or civilian

So you wouldn't be condemning Israel for launching random artillery strikes into Gaza?? Why does the response to an attack have to be proportional to the attack? If you stab me in the leg and come at me again with a knife, do I just stab you in the leg or try to kill you with the gun I have? Barbaric strikes!?!? Please.

reply to post by redhatty


I would hardly consider books for grade 12 being for kids..like the ones we saw being carried off from the bombed school this morning. Also the articles do not show us anything, just words. It would have more credibility if there was at least 1 image of these books teaching 12th graders to do nothing but kill Israeli people. More propeganda.

As to the land they were given, you know exactly what it is because you even refered to it..I shall refresh your memory..its called The Gaza Strip...hardly the entire land mass of what is known as Israel.

Anyway before falling into your trap of choosing which side I support, to which I repeat once again, for the 7th time today, I dont support ANY side. I merely know the history and know it very well. Some here obviously do not and only refer to lame articles of less than a year old and declare that absolute and the rest of history as unapplicable.



Cheers!!!!

reply to post by Runningtobabylon


You mean the response to terrorist attacks, directly targeting civilians, remember, the Hamas terrorists have openly admitted that they target civilians and try to kill as many as possible.

The only thing that stops these terrorists is killing them. There fore that is what is needed to stop the terrorist attacks.

If there were not terrorist attacks, there would be no counter attacks and peace, but the Hamas don't want peace.

In fact, if you read their charter, it states VERY CLEARLY, that their purpose is to murder every man, woman and child in Israel.

These are the animals that cause death/destruction on both sides.

reply to post by savetimerushonline


got to like it the way the Neo Nazis here
try and justify the murder of 140+ people

Just like the Neo nazis who tried and try to justify the slaughter of Jews by Germans using Religion as a tool.

sadly those who justify these crimes wont feel the same pain as the palestinian parents, sons and daughters, friends losing their loved ones.

Unless you belive in Karma so they get what they deserve.

reply to post by RFBurns


As do I. Back in 2000 I wrote an article on the history of the area and the conflict at that time.

What have you done?

Don't know why it doesn't want to hyperlink

here's the article via wayback machine

web.archive.org...://www.yowusa.com/Archive/October2000/plo_6/plo_6.htm

[edit on 12/27/08 by redhatty]

[edit on 12/27/08 by redhatty]

Jimminy crickets!
Just let them bash the hell out of each other and have it done.

Egypt and the Islamic nations in the area could take care of the Palestinians if they wanted to. Obviously they don't want to.

Israel is a nuclear nation. They could extinguish every last one of the 'palestinians' if they wanted to. So far, they have been reserved
in their responses to being attacked.

Let them all wipe each other out.
They've been doing it for thousands of years.
Let them finish the job.
The world will be a more quiet place.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


No sir, you are wrong there
There charter does not say to kill every person is isreal
It says (quoting the qoran [sp]) that there will be a time when muslims will fight the jews and the muslims will win
This is not hamas sayng they will kill every jewish person, this is them quoting a phrophecy in the qoran

So , Isreal bombing gaza indiscrimitley is a good thing?
See the diffrence with us being i can see hamas and isreal are doing wrong, However i cant see that you notice isreal is doing terrible things
you can not say that what isreal is doing is right
If they killed 50 civies just to kill one "terrorist" Is that worth it?

reply to post by pavil


You'd have to also shoot his entire family, who didn't have any knives but were in the general vicinity and did help raise the guy who stabbed you. and I'm sure that friends of that family would be outraged at what you've done to people they considered innocent, and would come at you with a knife again. Hey, just shoot them and their whole familes too. Should solve the problem.

[edit on 27-12-2008 by ThePiemaker]

reply to post by bodrul


TAC violation, calling member who disagree with you "NAZI"S.

You also fail to point out that the "RESPONCE" to the Hamas terrorists attacks, day after day......

You fail to point out that they were warned that if the terrorists continue their daily attacks, there would be a responce.

You failed to chastize the Hamas terrorists for shooting rockets and mortars into civillian area's.

You failed to point out that if the Hamas terrorists did not attack, they would recieve no "COUNTER" attack.

reply to post by RFBurns


Here's some bits and pieces from those textbooks

* "Complete the following blank spaces with the appropriate word: The Zionist enemy - - [attacked] - - civilians with its aircraft.

[Our Arabic Language, Part 2 for Third Grade #523 p..9]

* "Why do the Jews hate Muslim unity and want to cause division among them? Give an example of the evil attempts of the Jews, from events happening today."

[Islamic Education for Seventh Grade p. 19]

* "The Jews … have killed and evicted Muslim and Christian inhabitants of Palestine, whose inhabitants are still suffering oppression and persecution under racist Jewish administration."

[Islamic Education for Ninth Grade # 589 p. 182]

* "Who is the thief who has torn our homeland?"

[Our Arabic Language for Sixth Grade Part One #553 p. 15]

* "Write in your exercise book: An event showing the fanaticism of the Jews in Palestine against Muslims or Christians."

[Islamic Education for Ninth Grade #589 p. 182]

* "One must beware of the Jews, for they are treacherous and disloyal."

[Islamic Education for Ninth Grade #589 p. 79]

* "Racism: Mankind has suffered from this evil both in ancient as well as in modern times, for, indeed, Satan has, in the eyes of many people, made their evil actions appear beautiful... Such a people are the Jews…"

[ Islamic Education for Eighth Grade p. 95]

* The clearest examples of racist belief and racial discrimination in the world are Nazism and Zionism.

[The New History of the Arabs and the World, P. 123]

* "I learn from this lesson: I believe that the Jews are the enemies of the Prophets and the believers."

[Islamic Education, Part Two, for Fourth Grade #531 p. 67]

* "From the Uhud expedition… a number of lessons can be learned…: Treachery and disloyalty are character traits of the Jews and therefore one should beware of them."

[Islamic Education for Ninth Grade #589 p. 87]

* "The Jews adopted a position of hostility and deception towards the new religion. They called Muhammad a liar and denied him, they fought against his religion in all ways and by all means, a war that has not yet ended until today, and they conspired with the hypocrites and the idolaters against him and they are still behaving in the same way…"

[Islamic Education for Seventh Grade #564 p. 125]

* · "In many cases these Jews acted according to their known cunning and deceit, and they fomented wars [between Arab tribes]…

[Islamic Education for Ninth Grade # 589 p. 78]

* "Lessons to be learned: One must beware of civil war, which the Jews try to foment, and of their scheming against the Muslims."

[Ibid. p. 94]

* "Zionism is a political, aggressive and colonialist movement, which calls for the Judaisation of Palestine by the expulsion of its Arab inhabitants …

[Modern Arab History and Contemporary Problems,
Part Two, for Tenth Grade #613 p.49]

Originally posted by fleabit
There is more than enough blame on both sides to go around, imo. This is why it's a "bad idea" to mix politics and religion. I'm sort of surprised people are pointing fingers squarely at one side or the other. Each has made monumentally bad decisions over the years.

But regardless, if you are going fire missiles at a country, you better be prepared for the response. I do feel a lot of the aggression directed at Israel is simply to elicit a response, so they get sympathy from their allies. And at the cost of their own civilians... which I personally feel is abominable.

the blame is far from equal. this is NOT RELIGIOUS, it is political. palestinians are desperate and left no choice but fight. gaza is a prison and israeli crimes of genocide and apartheid must be resisted at any costs.


these people are forced to live in desert tents and are herded like cattle along checkpoints where they're subjected to never ending harassment and inconvenience. every day israeli soldiers terrorize and murder pallestinians. i've seen them repeatedly bash in the face of a child, using a large rock, whom was no more than 5yrs. old. shoot men dead at point blank range while unarmed and blindfolded. these are well out in the open. what worse perverted atrocities are they commiting while their numerous media outlets pass out their lies and propaganda?


israelis are far removed from all of these tortures. they live securely behind a giant concrete wall that they erected to further remind these suffering people how powerless they are in the country that was stolen from them. defenseless in every way to their well equipped oppressors that daddy washington spoils like a fragile minded child.

to believe palestine responsible in causing this conflict is absurd. to believe israel is threatened by palestine militarily is absurd. to believe palestine is terrorizing jews for their own greed or prejudice is absurd. the ignorance and absurdity supporting israel are staggering in this debate! while at the same time, many good points have been presented in opposition.

go back and read through this debate. you will plainly see how absurdity makes no argument to common sense and righteousness. this situation is just another crisis where humanity is failing mankind. all due to the idiotic, repetitive followers so detached from their own thinking they fail to recognize even the most blatant human suffering. if you cannot see this, you are victim to this, the worst human condition of all. shameful,

jz

"Truth" behind "the truths" ---

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, a leading candidate to become Israel's next prime minister, called for international support against "an extremist Islamist organization ... that is being supported by Iran," Israel's arch-foe.

www.reuters.com...

Israeli Zionists are killing innocent civilians to get their momentum to attack another innocent civilians, in another country... World should stop those A--holes running their lethal agenda!!!

Thats how this start to sounds... And what Iran has to do with Zionist crimes today --- Yeah --- Nothing.

reply to post by redhatty


I dont need to write any articles, all I had to do was pay attention to history dating much further back than your 2000 article.

Like studying the history dating back into the 1940's on up. Your link isnt working, but I hope you at least included those decades of historical fact in your 2000 written article and didnt write it with any bias.




Cheers!!!!

reply to post by mrmonsoon


Its not against the T&C for pointing out when a person/people/country has major nazi-esk overtones

reply to post by Runningtobabylon


No, you misunderstood what i said.

I meant the Hamas terrorist charter, not the Koran.

In fact, I think it is the sick and deranged religious leader who lie to those who can't read.

I don't think people are murderious by nature, but when they are brainwashed by evil men who claim to be religious leaders, the uninformed believe them.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


I am cleary not saying that. I am saying the continued conflict is helping the security sector of the Isralei economy to make vast sums of money, and that many within preceeding and this very administration in Israel have significant vested interets here.

Putting aside who is murdering who within the conflict i think it is pretty clear that this line of thought is pretty accurate. I encourage you to read the sources i provided in my last post and do some research of your own as well.

'In 2006 Israel exported $3.4 billion in defense products—well over a billion more than it received in US military aid. That makes Israel the fourth-largest arms dealer in the world, overtaking Britain' Namoi Klein

'Mifram is just one of the Israeli companies that could stand to benefit from the international meeting, Israeli officials said ahead of the conference this week.

In all, the export of safety and security products and services from Israel this year is expected to increase 15 percent over last year, TheMarker quoted Israel Export and International Cooperation Institute chief David Arzi as saying.

The safety and security industry in Israel will be worth about $1.15 billion by the end of 2007, Arzi said'. www.spacewar.com...

If you took away the conflict alot of these companies would suffer as they would not be able to develop their weapons and stratagies through first hand experience.