US Army Ready If The Downturn Gets Out Of Hand!

I could care less that the army THINKS they are ready since they also thought they were ready for Iraq and Afghanistan too, yet we all know how that panned out...

Eff the army!

Originally posted by TheRandom1
reply to post by LowLevelMason

 

Yes, just like they plan for in case of an alien invasion ect., no, if they plan/practise for something, it's because it is very feasable and is something that has high chances of it occuring.

Take it from someone who has friends and family on the inside.

-Lahara

Fear-mongering at its best. High chances of occurring? What are you basing that on, other than random, wild guesses? I trained for many things while in the Army, and many of those things have never occurred. When I served on the QRF in Korea, and on a civilian unrest team at Presidio, we were trained for all sorts of contingencies, that NEVER happened. It's what the Army does.

One thing I find endlessly amusing is how bumbling and foolish people think our government and military is. This is not the case. After serving, I've never worked for a more prepared, and ready organization than the Army. Just because they, or often not even them, just planning-teams, go over wild scenarios, does not mean there is a "high chance" of those things occurring.

reply to post by WestPoint23

The presence of such a trait within people of power however is not new, unfortunately. All civilizations which have existed have faced the problem.

i agree. the thing that made america so great in the past is the federal government and executive power was restrained. corruption always heads for the top. the founding fathers knew this and specifically constructed our government to have a built in system to secure the soverignty of the people over the government. the government exists FOR the people and BY the people. the people are not supposed to be servile slaves to the government working 7 months out of the year just to pay taxes, and then have the little money they have saved destroyed by inflation and big business corruption.

the increasing power of the executivebranch, the government and big business collusion and corruption, and destruction of soverignty of the common american has been an extremely gradual process, looking at history you can chart the begining of these trends all the way to the civil war. these changes could not have been made quickly or the people would have revolted. like the frog in the boiling pot of water analogy.

just because our government has been corrupt all of our lives on this earth does not make it right.

This however is no excuse to wish for general insurrection, lawlessness and chaos.

who says im wishing for that? i am simply pointing out that our government has far outstepped its bounds. I WISH the government was acting correctly and functioning as it should, i am simply stating that it is not.

It always amazes me when people make such extreme remarks with no sense (certainly no in-depth understanding), of history. How can our government be as "despotic as it gets" when you are free to criticize it? Even when you're not so subtly urging action against it.

I assure you i know plenty about history. taking history as an example it appears you probably would have labled the founding fathers as extremists or terrorists. after all they revolted and advocated action against their government, the british empire. if you existed in the colonies at that time you probably would have been a loyalist to the english government. after all there is "no excuse to wish for general insurrection, lawlessness and chaos." you may have been a redcoat in the service of the king trying to put down the "rebellious colonists."

yeah im able to exspress my opinion on a website that also has stories about reptillians on it. but how long will i be able to? there is censorship going on all over the internet and the media. you would have to be blind not to see that.

i am not for anarchy. i am for honest truthful respectable and restrained government that has the consent of the goverened.

not some thuggish corrupt corptocracy that takes most of my personal wealth and my families personal wealth and spends it giving bailout bonuses to a--holes with 100 foot yachts.

id like to use my money to help my family my community and myself as i see fit, not see most of it spent on sending the poor farm kids in my town to a country all the way on the other side of the world to be turned into IED confetti.

and if i had a position of power i would give power back to the people because i have no intrest in having the power for myself. that is precisly why i will never be in a position of power. i dont want kickbacks and funding from corrupt corporations. the media would black me out (much like ron paul) no one would ever even know i was running for office.

there are many problems with the people and government that run this country. if you cant see that or recognize that id say you have been blinded by psuedo-patriotism. i cannot blame you because i was once also.
all i ask is that you open your eyes and when a corrupt order is issued from a corrupt source that you would not follow it.

just because the corrupt are the authority dosnt mean that it is right to follow their demands.

Originally posted by autowrench
One wonders if the President would in fact call the Military down on people if civil unrest happens, which it already is in some parts of the country.

Federal and state officials will indeed utilize the National Guard and even active units specifically trained for such detail if widespread disarray is the norm. If inherent civil service cannot handle the situation (whatever it may be) by providing security and basic necessities to the populace then there is a place for the military. Calling on troops for domestic purpose however is still the discretion of the Commander in Chief, and to a lesser extent state Governors.

Originally posted by autowrench
One also wonders if American soldiers would in fact shoot American citizens....

They will, if they have to (just like Police and non law enforcement Americans shoot each other). Being non American is not a requisite for committing a crime. Still, this is an extreme and last resort reserved for a situation which would make the Civil Rights movement look benign. There are a variety of systems and tactics available for such detail, most are less than lethal and usually do not incorporate LGB's. Before anyone mentions Kent State notice that the planning, organizing, training and development of certain technologies are being designed to prevent another event like that. The worst thing to have it untrained troops ill equipped and led for domestic duty due to some dogma regarding their use. Personally I think more people should be grateful about the measures being taken (at all tiers) with such careful professionalism to protect the American people.

reply to post by Gonenuts


It is actually not in the constitution, but a 150 year old law called posse comitatus(sp).
And president bush had that taken off the books.

Originally posted by TheRandom1
reply to post by LowLevelMason

 

And you can prove that I'm wrong?

The NAU may have a Canadian US war, prove me wrong, go ahead, try your best to tell me that's it's not possible.

Anything is possible.

-Lahara

Canada would't go to war with the states they are our brothers more than the birtish. Don't people remember most that came to NA were persecuted or poor?? What could we possibly owe those guys? The Nau can have fun invading norhtern canada, where even the friggin' roads are seasonal.

Several things about this discussion bother me.
One always has to be concerned about who is deciding when the line is crossed between protest, civil disobedience and riot. The person at the top who's authority is being questioned; with his hand on the purse-strings, and the person on the street with the "beef" probably won't agree on where that line is.
In almost every situation of protest that has taken place, the people in power have utilized "agents provocateur" to turn the movement away from peaceful protest towards violence so that they could resort to the heavy response they already had at the ready anyway.
Using the military to "solve" domestic issues is like using a jackhammer to push in a thumbtack. They do what they know to do. That is to kill the enemy, which in this scenario, is the citizen who won't keep quiet about the government and the elite. Because the heavy power is there an excuse will be found or fabricated in order for it to eventually be used.
The people of this country are angry and rightfully so. What avenue do they have to legitimately express that anger?
I say none, and that is probably one of the greatest contributors to the potential for something to happen beyond simple protest.

to the post by "TheRepublic"....re "corpocracy": remember the outgoing speech by Pres. Eisenhower warning us of The Military-Industrial Complex?
Certainly Halliburton and its subsidiaries and the vast -Snip- of defense contractors fall under that description. At least Eisenhower waited til he was leaving office before speaking out (something Kennedy did not do altho he criticized the trio of the CIA, FRB and Secret Socieities and the result was a crossfire in the "triangle of death" in Dallas). There are too many conflicts of interest in government: Big Business in general, Big Oil and Big Defense in particular. Too many lobbyists and not enough advocates for the "truth, justice and the american way!" Where's the son of Jor-el when we need him.

Mod Edit: Please Do Not Circumvent The Censors.

[edit on 26-12-2008 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by WestPoint23


Forgive me for my apparent treachery, however a lack of civil order which threatens the functionality and even existence (as we know it) of the Union is very much something the military needs to be concerned with. After all, the number one priority of the Military is to defend the homeland from all enemies, foreign and domestic. History has shown that certain crises permit a situation where it is not unconstitutional, morally reprehensible or ineffective to use the military for domestic purposes. A widespread and persistent brake down of order (much like in N.O. during/after Katrina) is not acceptable. Economic depression, natural or man made catastrophes and any other event which might act as a catalyst for lawlessness aside, there is no justification for anarchy. As such, should organic law enforcement capacity be exhausted the military should step in and help, it has done so in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

You say there is no justification for anarchy or lawlessness, OK, then why are the people in charge breaking almost every law we have? It's ok for the people at the top to commit crimes under the auspice of their position, and steal trillions of dollars, but if a poor soul the flips out from desperation and steals for a local store he gets 10 years.

I guess its all about who has the power and who makes the laws, semantics, and arrogance.

You see the military and it's leaders do not have the balls or the ethics to stand up for what is actually just. We have groups and individuals creating financial chaos, breaking many laws and turning the US constitution into a complete joke, without the slightest oversight or punishment from anyone.

The military is suppose to defend the constitution of the United State of America and they are failing, failing domestically and aboard, but not by choice, but rather by the leadership and listening to corrupt policy.

Blind ignorance and listening to orders without question is only good when you have ethical leaders.



[edit on 26-12-2008 by Realtruth]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


i do rember that speech by eisenhower. i believe that to be one of his best. i have mixed feelings on him in general though. he appeared to submit to the "powers that be" to further his own ambitions. an example of this is how gen. patton spoke out against our collaberating with the russians and allowing most of germany to fall into totalitarian soviet hands.
like a true patriot patton was murdered for his stance, while eisenhower played the elites lap poodel and became president.

sure eisenhower waited till he was almost out of office to even say anything, but i guess better late than never. kennedy never publically outed the elite, even after bay of pigs. i believe if he had gotten on tv and told americans exactly what he knew he may still be alive today, we may actually have lived in a free country.

the lesson of all this is having balls of steel against the elite will get you killed 90% of the time. while being a lap poodle can take you to the oval office. a true patriot will say what needs to be said come hell or highwater. id rather be an honest dead man, than a lying whore anyday. everyone is going to die someday, might as well die free and honest.

Originally posted by Gonenuts
The Government and the bankers have caused our economy to collapse. I have to wonder if this was done on purpose, so a new currency can be introduced, and the North American Union would be force on our Country.

Sorry if this is a little off topic but when I read what you wrote it reminded me of this video.

There have been times--they've been noted in earlier posts--when the military has been used inapprorpiately against its citizens. There have also been times when it made sense to use military force. For example, Marines are currently being used to patrol the Mexican border. Some people approve of that, some don't.

There is likely to be some civil unrest as the current recession deepens into a depression. I don't believe I'd take up arms and rebel against my own country unless there was positive proof--not paranoid fantasies, but actual proof--that all the powers that be were aligned against U.S. citizens in order to suppress and enslave them. I don't, for example, believe I'd participate in a Marxist revolution or an extreme right-wing one. A revolution must have a purpose truly worth dying for. In my case, whether one needs protection from or against the military would depend upon the specific circumstances.

reply to post by Gonenuts


To a large extent what you say is correct and at some point people will say "enough is enough". Indeed in theory no one is above the law but as the saying goes "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

The american government(democrats and republicans) have for a long time colluded with big bussiness to "run the show". Congress and senate have failed miserably, especially in president bush's tenure, to provide justice and uphold the constitution so what other alternative do people have?

I think mass, widespread riots should be a last resort solution, not something to take lightly at all. I would prefer a million peacefull demonstraters demonstrating peacefully twice a week and if that fails then god help us all. Why have we not had more demonstrations in nyc, la, dc, chicago, dallas, etc up to now? Why do many people on ats think that only guns are the solution???

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


a good example of the protest you spoke of is what has been hapening in thailand. the Peoples Alliance for Democracy had so many mass peacful protest that the government was not able to function until it removed the corrupt prime minister. they shut down the airports by sleeping on the tarmac freezing all travel and commerce in the country.

i think a peaceful protest is much much better than a war anyday.

reply to post by TheRepublic


Yes there is more than one way to skin a cat. The real issue is that most americans have been having it a little too good to be bothered in any protests...that is up to now!

Who knows what tomorrow will bring? I see a lot of cowards running to south america before the turn of the next decade...... South america is a fascist safe haven!

[edit on 26-12-2008 by EarthCitizen07]

Be Cool People!

Grab an extra gallon of drinking water every time you go to the grocery store, plus some canned goods. Just a few cans each time. Put a fresh survival kit in your car and home. The government published tons of good data on this after Sept 11.

And remember, they WANT us to panic. They NEED us to panic. They are trying to MAKE us panic. DON'T! BE COOL! NO MATTER WHAT!

The most dangerous place will be urban areas. Urban areas WILL panic. Urban areas WILL become violent. If you live in one, make a plan now to get the hell out of Dodge quickly if something happens.

Most importantly; only point your guns at looters. PERIOD! PERIOD! PERIOD! They throw our soldiers under the bus without a second thought. They probably want us to shoot a few of them. DON'T! NO MATTER WHAT!

Stuff like this is always supposed to happen and never does. Prepare anyway. The worse that can happen is this summer, you've got plenty of water, and you eat a lot of corn and peas and green beans. I like corn, peas, and green beans, and keep digging into my survival stash. I need to knock it off.

I really doubt that we will see any kind of armed conflict between the military and the civilian populace. The reason is that the vast majority of people will go with the flow and do nothing, no matter what happens.

We have been dumbed down and chilled out over the past 60 years or so. Most people have no idea of current events, don't watch the news, don't read the newspaper, and don't surf the net. The truth is that the majority of people get their news second or third hand from their family, friends, or coworkers.

So, if the US military marched down Main Street in every town in the Country, the vast majority of people would be completely unaware. The very few concerned citizens that did turn out could be very easily handled. Heaven help the poor slob who flashed a weapon.

Need proof for what I said?

Over ten years ago, then President Bill Clinton, broke Federal Law and accepted campaign cash from agents of the Chinese Government. A very few people took notice, most of them Republicans. The media reported on it very reluctantly and they accepted Al Gore's explanation that there was, "No controlling legal authority." Even though this was a brash lie. The Clinton campaign openly violated Federal Elections Law.

More recently, the President and the Congress converted the US banking system, the auto industry, the mortgage industry, and other vital industries, to Federal control. The Congress even demanded that they be granted a controlling share of the banking industry. Nobody batted an eyelash at it. Even though the US Constitution strictly prohibits the Federal Government from controlling the banking industry.

Our whole Country was converted to a Socialist Government overnight and not a single shot was fired. Few people even noticed. In fact a lot of people, are lining up to get their handout. The President said that he was willing to abandon free market ideals in order to "save" the free market system. I have news for him, the free market system is dead and gone, unless Congress is willing to surrender the new powers that they have been granted. Don't hold your breath.

Hey guys. I live over the pond and you're worrying me with what you are saying. If the US goes the way you're saying it might, then the UK will follow. We have the same problems as you and same type of Government and, although on a smaller scale, the outcome will be similar. Also, our country has been almost completely disarmed. Maybe our shower of -Snip- saw this coming

Mod Edit: Please Do Not Circumvent The Censors.

[edit on 26-12-2008 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by Gonenuts


Wow! If you do not own a gun, buy one now! It is against the Constitution to turn our own military against our civilians. The Government and the bankers have caused our economy to collapse. I have to wonder if this was done on purpose, so a new currency can be introduced, and the North American Union would be force on our Country. I can actually see a civil war in this County. The insanity of all of this, we voted them in, to run and manage this Country, and what do they do, they run it right in the ground and loot the treasury and pass laws to destroy as much of our freedom as they can. You what to know why because they “can”. The reason for Martial law is to suppress you and strip away all your freedoms. Meanwhile the evil henchmen that our running our Country, can not get caught or held accountable for their actions. If anyone kicks in my door they can kiss their behind goodbye, I will fight this Tyrannical Government to the end, if this happens

www.nypost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Martial Law is not unconstitutional, it is in fact, entirely constitutional ..

Honestly..

If the economy collapses, I don't want thugs and morons looting our cities.. in fact, if I where to arm my self against one or the other, my bet is I would form a militia to stop the urban looting by run away groups of imbeciles..

The only thing unconstitutional as far as our military goes, is that the Gov cannot lodge soldiers in our homes as the British did to the colonies.

reply to post by TheRepublic

they shut down the airports by sleeping on the tarmac freezing all travel and commerce in the country.

I am happy but amazed somewhat that they got away with it. I have a great deal of difficulty picturing that working in the U.S. or Canada.
Don't you think the military or national guard would have been ordered to disperse such protesters with whatever means was necessary here? I mean, impairing business and commerce in that way would just not have been tolerated here IMHO. I have less faith in our government/military than I do in theirs. Also less faith that enough people here would get involved to form the critical mass that would be necessary such that the government could not easily disperse them.