What is with you people?!?! Ask me questions...

Originally posted by imd12c4funn
To be one with God is a concept beyond linear and material thought.

I agree I would go so far as to say that I don't believe us humans can even wrap our brain around what "god" really is.
I think it's that foreign and alien of a concept to our primitive psyche.

As I have said before and will say again, I think organized religions are actually harming mankind as a whole, dividing us and causing irrational and almost delusional beliefs and behavior in mankind.

We would be well-served to get rid of religions.
I think Buddhism is a much better and healthier way to look at ourselves, our spirituality, and our connection to "the divine." (call it what you will)

see what was brought to your table?

THATS what you are dealing with.

I have witnessed (personally) this night some truly tremendous awareness...

grab that. take that. at the very least, please... be AWARE of that...

if you dont, the Host around you will appear completely different...

you think it sounds funny, heed that advice my brother...

heed that advise..

I see what you're saying but the gun isn't telling people how to live, act, and treat one another.
Guns don't condone slavery or stoning people to death, they don't threaten eternal damnation, they don't cause irrational belief systems. Religion does that, the Bible and Qur'an do that.

Edit: Gguns are just tools, if people stabbed one another it wouldn't be the knives fault. Theres a person, usually with irrational beliefs holding whatever weapon it may be.


[edit on 11-12-2008 by ashamedamerican]

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
In my bible, the serpent is the one who is helping man to discover knowledge.
[edit on 11-12-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

Hoo rah my friend, if the stories in the bible ever represented a greater knowledge in the past this is proof of it. Eating that apple is the best thing Eve ever did. Apple=knowledge. It is also said that the true evil that was given to mankind was fire. The greeks say that was done by Prometheus but the bible says it was an angel outside of Eden's gates who gave Eve a flaming sword. Any way thats straying from the topic.

My question.
How can you support a religion that is descended from the leaders that started and funded the crusades!?!! How can you be so blind?

God as we know him to be is simply a personification[b/] of an unnamed All. A universal force, much like the force from Star Wars, that we are all apart of. That is why there are no atheist's in foxholes, because even a disbeliever of "God" can accept the existence of a greater power.

"God" did not create man as a mirror image of him self as it states in the bible. Humanity created God as a mirror image of itself through religion and the worshiping of deities, which (interestingly enough) no matter what part of the world they originate from resemble those who worship them.

Man attempted to personify or define this undeniable greater entity that the atheist undoubtedly prays to in his foxhole. But the unknown All is not that, an entity, a god, or a goddess. It is simply the natural laws of our world that we have been created from and survive within.

For example, our solar system: with the sun in the center and planets orbiting around it, or the atom: with a nucleus(the sun) and electrons and neutrons(the planets) orbiting it.

Or for example the elements, Fire, Air, Water, Earth. Man is composed of all of these body being Earth, mind being Air, spirit being Fire, and soul being Water.

And scientifically? Carbon=Earth Hydrogen=Water Oxygen=Air Nitrogen=Fire. If the four elements are put together in their most basic form through hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen, what do they create? Protoplasm.

What is protoplasm? When you crack open an egg for breakfast in the morning protoplasm is the white part. It is what the nucleus(some day chicken) is nourished with before it enters the world whether it be the egg of a chicken, snake or human being. It is what we all are born out of.

And for another example, yin-yang, night and day, sun and moon, light and dark, warmth and cold, birth(spring) and death(fall), winter(the creation of life) and Summer(the living of life), man and woman, the angel at the gate that gave Adam and Eve the flaming sword(fire) and the serpent that gave them knowlege one does not exist with out the other, because of the laws of our Universe.

Religion is simply a story, or a belief that humanity needed up until now to be able to retain Hope and survive. And what is Hope? In the story of Pandora's Box, Pandora closed the box just in time for one misfortune not to escape. That was foreboding. Because all of man's actions are contingent upon a Hope for a better state of being, and all of his happiness is contingent upon him not knowing the state of his future being

My friend open your eyes to the history of your religion, educate your self and you will begin to realize that it was created by people just like you who always kept their best interest at heart. But of course that doesn't mean the very core concept of it doesn't hold truth. It does mean however that you have a lot to learn.

reply to post by ashamedamerican


star for you.....well said, probably wont be accepted by religious people....but hey, good shot there man.

seems we have alot more in common than previously thought....

Originally posted by Alucard Hellsing
I honestly don't think that us as a human race is oooh so special that gods and angels and demons "battle" it out for our souls...

Im not doubting i have a soul, i just don't think i am going to go to heaven or hell after i am dead, that'd be pretty boring if thats all there is to the afterlife if you ask me!

Think about it, how many trillions of souls would there be in heaven and hell right now ? theres almost 7billion more on the way and god just keeps pumping out the souls like a machine!

Did we exists before we came to earth ?

If we did, that means re-incarnation is real ?

is there just an endless supply of souls waiting in heaven for their time to be sent to this hellhole so they can be judged to go to heaven or hell ?


honestly mate, it makes no sense, and god makes even less sense...

So have you got any reasons or purpose for us being here ? Are we all here just hanging around .all work and no time for play ...all hell and not much heaven going on due to so many who claim there is no heaven and hell (who are usually the ones causing all the hell that we do have here) ......doing not much of nothing just working and going to sleep ...eating sleeping and dieing ...not really learning a darned ole thing ..not taking much time to even try and learn anything ..(oh except to be all knowing which has really not done us much good at all ..and in fact it has brought even more turmoil (Genetic altering with our lives and our food .weaponry that could turn us all to dust in a flat second ..or drive us so crazy we wuold pray to die ...or make doubles of all those wicked ones running the show (creating clones) ..etc etc ...................and so in your world all we have to look forward to is more of the same as above (only add a bunch of suffering to go along with all of those things) ...only to all end in DEAD >..(and nothing else from there) ...For what purpose then was all of this ?
Seriously ....can you think of anything else then to explain WHY we are here (and the main question where then did we come from ) and what the heck it is all about and to where it is all going ?
And how can you be so sure there is nothing after this ...because I cant even be absolutely sure that I am even really here ...can you ? ....we may be here (on earth) there(in another place already ) and everywhere all at the same time ... (space and infinty) and not even know it ..(LOL) .........

reply to post by pureevil81


Thank you, and I guess not.

Call me a heathen, a heretic, whatever makes one sleep better at night but this is how I feel.
I didn't have a religion "pushed" on me as a child, instead I was told to think for myself, and decide what path I want.
I thank my parents for that often.

I hate seeing children indoctrinated into religions, I feel bad for them honestly. Most of the time they don't have any choice, it's shoved down their throats, that's just wrong.
Every person should be allowed to choose for themselves what they believe, from a neutral starting point, unbiased of their parents religious or spiritual beliefs.
Sorry I'm rambling, I just feel very strongly about that, I feel it actually damages a child from the start, by narrowing their perspective, and making them feel they have to believe in something.

Originally posted by ashamedamerican
I see what you're saying but the gun isn't telling people how to live, act, and treat one another.
Guns don't condone slavery or stoning people to death, they don't threaten eternal damnation, they don't cause irrational belief systems. Religion does that, the Bible and Qur'an do that.

Edit: Gguns are just tools, if people stabbed one another it wouldn't be the knives fault. Theres a person, usually with irrational beliefs holding whatever weapon it may be.


[edit on 11-12-2008 by ashamedamerican]

Yes well no one is born to just know how to use that gun ..there are directions (and were written by men lol) ......and not everyone even reads those directions and alot of people read them and cant even understand it ..
and can and will misuse that gun and its directions for something other than what it was intented to be made for ....and not even hold it the way they are supposed to hold it ...and may even shoot themself in the face before they see they have pretty much misinterpreted those directions .....

Sorry but I dont believe I have ever wished death or hell on anyone at any time in my life ..not even those who tried to kill me ...in fact I cried for them ...I prayed for them as they beat me ....I did not get revenge or even call the cops on them ....I did not hate them .......I did not even care about how bad it hurt me .and I forgave them as soon as the deed was done ..(several times) ....so I guess your wrong about God teaching us all that ...because I sure did not learn to do any of that and I have read the bible thousands of times ...

reply to post by ashamedamerican


yes, and not to mention those children that are being filled with the doctrine, are also taught that the slavery and murder, and everything else is just peachy.its all covered up by those precious priests and what not.

it makes me angry. believe in all the slavery, the innocent people that the god of the bible killed, over land no less.......believe that you are going to live in a marshmallowy heaven if it makes you feel better....but leave the children out of it.

BTW: just because you cut the bible out, doesnt mean you stop learning, and it doesnt mean you dont believe in a higher power, i just happen to believe in something that doesnt murder people over land.

Originally posted by Simplynoone

Sorry but I dont believe I have ever wished death or hell on anyone at any time in my life ..not even those who tried to kill me ...in fact I cried for them ...I prayed for them as they beat me ....I did not get revenge or even call the cops on them ....I did not hate them .......I did not even care about how bad it hurt me .and I forgave them as soon as the deed was done ..(several times) ....so I guess your wrong about God teaching us all that ...because I sure did not learn to do any of that and I have read the bible thousands of times ...

yes, love....good for you. just a quick question though. did you not know about love BEFORE you read the bible, i sure did, and i am sure alot of other people did too.....it doesnt take a bible to teach us love.

as said before, i do respect your beliefs, nothing truly bad about them. but think realistically.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by pureevil81]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by ashamedamerican

 

I dont need to watch a video that shows all of that ...I have seen it and still see it with my own eyes ..but where your flawed in your thinking is that it is not the BIBLE or whats written in it that makes people do those things ..it is PEOPLE ....people who are OBVIOUSLY messed up

Yes and what he is trying to make you understand is that it was people that wrote the bible. And also I am sorry but you abuse parenthesis.

reply to post by Simplynoone


I never said the bible turns people into psychopathic murderers, eventough religious texts do look at the jihad belief of the qur'an. Do you think the inquisitors hadn't heard jesus's surmon on the mount preaching love? They still did what they did.

If people strangled eachother to death how would that be different?
They didn't use a gun.

I'm just saying it DOES cause an irrational belief system, and a big part of it is the taboo that you can't challenge someone's religion or their beliefs like you could any other belief, it's a social "no no"

If I said the holocaust never happened, you would be under no pressure to respect my beliefs.
But if I tell you that an invisible man from the sky is watching me, and if I do bad things he will send me to hell to burn and scream and cry... But he loves me! And this invisible man condones slavery and even beating slaves as long as I don't beat him so bad that I put his eyes or teeth out, and says if my wife isn't a virgin on my wedding night that I should stone her to death, and If my neighbor worships another god I should stone him to death, If I don't stone them to death, someone else who isn't a sinner like me should stone them AND me to death, but he gives great meaning to my life, you would be under social pressure not to challenge my belief too harshly.

That's irrational, my beliefs and the social pressure on you not to challenge them.
It further perpetuates a cycle of irrational, and at times delusional beliefs, thoughts, and behavior. Look at the jihad beliefs for example.
That it my point, it's unhealthy, damaging, irrational and causes harm to mankind as a whole.

Edit: Another good point. You can be so well educated that you can build a nuclear bomb, but so delusional that you still believe you'll get those 72 virgins when you set it off and kill infadels in a jihad.


[edit on 12-12-2008 by ashamedamerican]

I think the main thing that needs to be remembered is that G-d will reach anyone who wants to be reached. I was NOT brought to Him through the Bible, but there IS something there that *I* CANNOT and WOULD not try to make ANY non believer see. The most I can explain is that it is like a door. There are keys, but you DON'T find the keys within the Bible.

SKEPTICISM IS GOOD!!! Had I not discarded the Bible, I would have been settling for the interpretations that were given to me which DID NOT make sense. QUESTIONING IT and G-D is GOOD!! You have to give me this point, that those who asked the right questions in the Bible WERE answered by G-d and you would know this IF you read it.

You will NOT see through anyone's "eyes" but your own, but when you "see" you cannot deny.

I have a fondness for those who doubt and question so long as they are seeking G-d. The answers are NOT in the Bible, but they are shown THROUGH the Bible, thus the puzzle of it.

I am trying to give a clue here. It is pointless to try and explain it because there is no true believer that can explain it. G-d is NOT in the Bible, but it is the riddle. You can't answer a riddle WITH a riddle. You must use logic that comes outside the riddle. The heart is determines if the right questions are being asked.

I was there... I was the skeptic and the frustrated one. All one has to do is look at previous posts to see that I was not buying into it unless I understood it.

Because I was the skeptic, I know there is nothing any believer can say that will convince anyone that doesn't see it and this IS good, because when you DO see, you will know that there IS an intelligence behind it that is not the intelligence of a man.

I am a HUGE FAN of puzzles and this may have worked to my advantage because this is exactly what this book is. It is a puzzle and if YOU try to fit them together then it doesn't work. KEEP QUESTIONING IT. Read it even though you don't understand it. Learn about other things.. science, ancient history, math, recent history, etc... and if your heart is sincere (as I sense from some of your posts) it will start unraveling in a way you can't argue with or explain. Explanations USING the Bible from a believer should be discarded because it doesn't work that way.

One more thing... another advantage I had is that I knew the Bible inside and out by the surface words because I did give it a serious go for many years and this is the reason I say, at least try to read it and study it.. just don't try to understand it because WE can't understand it so that when we do understand it outside of it, we know it is real.

I hope that helps at least one person. The worse thing anyone can do is have a false belief. Better to admit that you feel something that is higher than us, but you don't attribute anything to it than to lie and *think* you know G-d, but you only know Him by another's interpretations. YOu are an individual and that is how you will be reached. He doesn't hate those that are lost, He hates those that are wicked. There IS a difference.

k.... am finished.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by ashamedamerican

 

yes, and not to mention those children that are being filled with the doctrine, are also taught that the slavery and murder, and everything else is just peachy.its all covered up by those precious priests and what not.

it makes me angry. believe in all the slavery, the innocent people that the god of the bible killed, over land no less.......believe that you are going to live in a marshmallowy heaven if it makes you feel better....but leave the children out of it.

BTW: just because you cut the bible out, doesnt mean you stop learning, and it doesnt mean you dont believe in a higher power, i just happen to believe in something that doesnt murder people over land.

exactly star for you!

Originally posted by Simplynoone

Yes well no one is born to just know how to use that gun ..there are directions (and were written by men lol) ......and not everyone even reads those directions and alot of people read them and cant even understand it ..
and can and will misuse that gun and its directions for something other than what it was intented to be made for ....

HAHA Iv never read these directions but i am sure they explain how to assemble, disassemble and aim at your target, whether it be your dinner or another human. Also many guns were "intended" and "made" to kill people, in wars.

4 pages of personal jest and still no peep from Mr. furious racer...

oh well, probably another ATS point grabber lol. =)

And gee, I really thought he had some answers. Maybe a mutiple choice question and answer session would be best. Ok, lets try:


Which God are you referring to Mr. furious racer?

A.) The God of the Bible

b.) The God of the Koran

c.) The Gods of the Veda

d.) You

special note: If you select choice d.) then I can understand your frustration. Trust me, you're not alone. I go through this every day.

Just remember one simple fact, and one alone. If it wasn't for the Chaos variable (a.k.a. Free Will) then order as you know it would not exist

Pretty simple, huh?

So therefore, logic must dictate that the Creator must be versed in Chaos Logic in order to run things so smoothly. Therefore, we as believers in the Creator must understand that to understand the Creator, we must acknowledge the chaos of Free Will.

Unfortunately, everything mankind understands in it's pitiful existance is fear, which governs dominion. letting dominion go and allowing individualism to take root enables an ascention into chaos that will interestingly clear away the clouds that block the understanding of ourselves and equate to the understanding that Free Will governs our purpose to exist.

and what is that purpose, we must ask?

To, as God's children, MATURE into the very thing that God exists as... Creators. In order to do that, we must fall, and fall, and fall, and fall, remembering that we have the ability to pick ourselves back up, gracefully even, if we remain honest TO OURSELVES.

Any other way just leads to unhappiness and more fear.

Originally posted by justamomma

I am trying to give a clue here. It is pointless to try and explain it because there is no true believer that can explain it. G-d is NOT in the Bible, but it is the riddle. You can't answer a riddle WITH a riddle. You must use logic that comes outside the riddle. The heart is determines if the right questions are being asked.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by justamomma]

You have truely got something there. I think that is all that needs to be said. If everyone truly followed their heart and asked the right question they would lead themselves on the right path.

The answer is always within isn't it

Originally posted by Simplynoone
PS ..there is another MAJOR problem ...most of us (believers) all believe so different about even the basics ...how on earth can we get past that even ?
I would love suggestion on that one ...

We have to start in truth and define it from there since God only operates in truth.

Spirit = A Passionate breath

Truth = Verified as real. Has credibility with out witness.

The truth will set you free, not love. Love is tribulation and tribulation is trimester and tri mester is 40 wks or 9 Holies or a 150 days of rain judged by 23 Sanhedrin counsel x xx y and "Drawn out/moses"(think this through) "Raises the (serpent)" in the wilderness, so to MUST THE SON OF MAN be lifted up.

Ever seen a baby born? As soon as they cut the "Silver cord" they lift it up...and preach the gospel...."It's a Boy!" or "We are blessed with a girl"...remember...the Good news.

For many that were against abortion, but Jesus said, "better that man to not have been born".

I don't have to look for the beast any farther then myself, same with anyone. Don't we recognize each other yet?

In truth God is not hidden, but we have turned away from knowing who the living God is, as it was written, "God put Adam/Mankind to sleep"

That is the Greatest part, God is perfect because he is judged in all, by all...every day, perfect.

A tsunami happens and we cry. We should, I cry when salt water washes in my eye.

When he comes to memory fully, it will be as a flash.

Peace

X marks the spot ladies and that is the truth. Salvation comes forth, the same way it always has, and this is how the world rejects the one they didn't know.

Nothing like a little dogma to kill a thread.

/listens to the crickets

Originally posted by YoungBlood

Originally posted by justamomma I am trying to give a clue here. It is pointless to try and explain it because there is no true believer that can explain it. G-d is NOT in the Bible, but it is the riddle. You can't answer a riddle WITH a riddle. You must use logic that comes outside the riddle. The heart is determines if the right questions are being asked.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by justamomma]

You have truely got something there. I think that is all that needs to be said. If everyone truly followed their heart and asked the right question they would lead themselves on the right path.

The answer is always within isn't it

The answer IS within us, but I don't want it mistaken that I don't believe there to be some grounding point.

I tried to explain this to someone and not sure if it sunk in or not, but will try briefly to explain this.

Just like any puzzle, when you pour it out of the box, you have tons of seperated pieces and there is ONLY ONE way those pieces can come together to form the picture you see on the box.

There IS ONLY ONE way the pieces can come together and fit to form the bigger picture. Thus, there HAS to be a grounding point. THERE IS NO OTHER BOOK that has made its impact on the world like the Bible.

It is the most argued, disputed, and widely known. THERE IS A REASON, and this is so that as we gain pieces (understanding and perspectives), we can start to see it fit into the picture (the grounding point.. the bible).

G-d will reach us within ourselves and through the experiences He places before us (our interests, interactions, etc), but there has to be something outside ourselves that shows the picture otherwise we would ALL come out with different pictures.

This is the whole purpose of the Bible.. the picture on the box. The pieces are scattered around.... outside the bible.

Don't settle for one piece. SEARCH.

Example: I didn't understand the whole Jew connection and thus went on a search (and this for me, was my epiphany). I saw so much through SECULAR events that led me to see how pieces fit in the Bible. I would get these thoughts in my head.. scientific thoughts, then come across something and realize that what was in my head was not my imaginings.... it was real... quantum physics (I understood things about quantum physics when I didn't even know it had a name or existed) and then I would read something in the bible and there in went another piece of the puzzle.

It is interesting, fascinating, and suddenly you realize G-d has character and you see His infinite love through His longsuffering in allowing these things we thought were a curse. This is a blessing. It is sobering considering, but it is all for His glory and for the first time, I understand how His glory is my glory. It is humbling and exciting at the same time.

Again though, I digress. I just encourage you to not seek INSIDE yourself, but outside and then YES, the answer comes outside and the grounding point for all is the only book that is, even by non believers, the most disputed book.