India Under Terror Attack! At least ten people killed in Mumbai shootings: TV (now 125 +)

Originally posted by makeitso

Originally posted by sadchild01
reply to post by makeitso

 

and ISI has been supported by CIA ?

Yes, decades ago.

The financial support the US gives recently has been to support the collapsing economy, and to leverage access to the tribal areas, no?

Most recently Saudi and China has been supporting the ISI from what I gather.

not convincing argument at all.

secondly , ISI-CIA axis were involved in chechen war too

Most recently Saudi and China has been supporting the ISI from what I gather.

yes, i am aware of saudi arabia and too some extent China , but in my opinion , CIA is also involved , and no pentagon propaganda will covince that CIA is not involved in working with ISI ,
this is a recent example

Still, the CIA and ISI have a working arrangement for the launch of Predators. Because the American military is barred by Pakistan from operating in the tribal areas, the Predator has become the U.S.'s lead weapon to kill al Qaeda and Taliban leaders in the region.

An intelligence source said the Predator fleet in Pakistan has doubled over the passed year from a figure put at "less than a half dozen."

The intelligence source said the mountain ranges along the border have strong wind currents that make it difficult to launch the Predators from Afghanistan. That is why the access to the ISI bases is critical if the CIA is to conduct its unofficial war. The agency does not acknowledge publicly that it is conducting an air war in Pakistan.
www.humanevents.com...

do check out CIA and ISI involvement in heroin trade
www.americanfreepress.net...

That's definitely a possibility Sonya, it seems that they have more firepower then most armies!

I expected this would be long over by now, the Indian military and law enforcement/internal security forces have obviously suffered quite a blow from this incident. Me thinks they bribed or even have a few rogue cops among their number.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
This is clearly the most highly trained Fedayun unit ever encountered by any nation, bar the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Please don't make em sound like senior ranking ISI agents.

Originally posted by 44soulslayerOn each floor the NSG have to scour each room inch by inch to check for hiding terrorists and any bombs left behind (RDX).

The NSG are a formidable force, and there are 200 of them on the scene; but its nearly impossible to fight against the enemy when the enemy is hiding behind hostages.

Yeah it sounds very dangerous. Maybe the place is rigged with explosives. Surely the hostage takers have some plan for a climactic ending.

I wonder if the authorities are thinking about letting the top floors burn and let that be the end of it.

This isn't an issue of going in "guns blazing"... This is an issue of whether or not your men are trained well enough in Urban Warfare to take out the folks holding their positions. Even if it IS a company sized element, as I expect, they would still be vastly outnumbered by security forces, military forces and police by now.
However, the security forces in general aren't up to the task of taking these guys out.
My old batallion would have mopped these guys up by now.

Sonya, you're probably right about prepping a few rooms, also.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by Maya00a

 

Absolutely.

As Mike recapped, the requirements for this attack were:

1. Extensive special forces tactical, urban warfare training. Reports suggest that the terrorists are using the cover fire and tactical retreat to move further and further up the Trident hotel. This means that the NSG have to clear each floor again and again as the terrorists retreat.

Here is something I dont understand. Why will they retreat UPWARDS, after that what is going to happen? Are they gonna jump down from the top floor? In the fire, everyone goes to the bottom, I dunno about a terrorist situation.

BTW, this plot doesnt seem so simple, For all you know a next batch will come in and take over the capital. They have already demolished installations like police station and hospital. They knew their target.

20 people is not possible. 20 people escaping and you need commandos. No fool is gonna buy that argument. maybe a battalion if not a company.

reply to post by ChrisF231


I was talking with an Indian friend of mine and he said it smelled bad.He said if you pay money then there will be no cops around.He said when tshtf there are no cops around.Any other time when things are good they are present.I found that interesting.Then I saw ur post.
I agree.

I'm wondering if they had a specific target(s) of interest and the rest of the carnage was just the cherry on top. The point made that they only killed 125 (up from 100) in such target rich environments is puzzling. Given the the weapons used I would expect 5 people would be able to kill more people. When you consider the level of expertise, it is strange how few casualties there actually are.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
This isn't an issue of going in "guns blazing"... This is an issue of whether or not your men are trained well enough in Urban Warfare to take out the folks holding their positions. Even if it IS a company sized element, as I expect, they would still be vastly outnumbered by security forces, military forces and police by now.
However, the security forces in general aren't up to the task of taking these guys out.
My old batallion would have mopped these guys up by now.

Sonya, you're probably right about prepping a few rooms, also.

I have friends in the irish rangers, they would have crippled these guys in a couple of hours... And thats just 3 of them!

reply to post by hitmen


Raustin and I were discussing this last night. You are correct. It is a company sized element at a minimum. 16 or 17 groups of at least 4 or 5. And that is the far low end of the estimate. It could easily be more.

reply to post by DrumsRfun


Yeah I was informed about the level of corruption in the Indian police forces last night. I think that may be another element to all this.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Don't forget they are in a hotel, mini bar in each room plus a fully stocked commercial kitchen. as well as the dried fruit they brought, so maybe they are/were planning to be somewhere else and not the hotels.

IBNLive.com are reporting that all the terrorists at the Taj are dead but another fire has broken out. How has another fire broken out if all the terrorists are dead? This is just too weird.

reply to post by Raustin


First, I'm quite sure they had specific targets. The obvious level of planning in this thing mandates that people were working on objective points, rally points, etc. LONG in advance of the attack.
As for the casualties, I don't trust the numbers at all.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
I was talking with an Indian friend of mine and he said it smelled bad.He said if you pay money then there will be no cops around.He said when tshtf there are no cops around.Any other time when things are good they are present.I found that interesting.Then I saw ur post.
I agree.

Well the security at the Taj was reduced a week ago, so yeah maybe someone got paid off to make sure the hotel was easily accessible (before and during) the melee.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by ChrisF231

 

I was talking with an Indian friend of mine and he said it smelled bad.He said if you pay money then there will be no cops around.He said when tshtf there are no cops around.Any other time when things are good they are present.I found that interesting.Then I saw ur post.
I agree.

I don't think indian cops are bribeable at this level.They must have some kinda honour and respect for their country.If they have been bribed,they should be the first ones to be dealt with as they had most Major role.

Originally posted by makeitso

Originally posted by Raustin
reply to post by Jay-in-AR

 

Then again the Indian military and police are looking so pathetic right

I see this as a function of political correctness.

They are damned if they go in guns blazing, or gas them, (elections are coming up), like Russia, or China would do.

They are damned if they attempt to save lives by not gasing them or going in guns blazing.

gas them, (elections are coming up), like Russia, or China would do.

this is utter nonsense ,

the gasing by Russia in dubrovka theatre was hands down one of the best methods of dealing with terroritsts firstly , had the gas not been used the theatre would have been blown up by terrorists , and more than 900 would have been dead , okay , but due to brillance of russian counterterrist units using that gas , the casualties were 130 only .

if it were SEAl,DElta force or any other , they would have stormed the building and all hostages would be dead

the way indian forces dealt suggests incompetence to me

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


I'm not trusting the numbers either. When you look at the streets they look like a freaking war zone.

Originally posted by ChadwickusDon't forget they are in a hotel, mini bar in each room plus a fully stocked commercial kitchen. as well as the dried fruit they brought, so maybe they are/were planning to be somewhere else and not the hotels.

Yeah well the kitchen would probably become inaccessible. The bar (alcohol) wouldn't mean anything to Muslims. They would want water and their precious tea if available. Course a few powerbars doesn't take up much space, it comes down to comfort.

Originally posted by hitmen

Here is something I dont understand. Why will they retreat UPWARDS, after that what is going to happen? Are they gonna jump down from the top floor? In the fire, everyone goes to the bottom, I dunno about a terrorist situation.

These guys aren't exactly in a hurry to escape. I expect that they will continue engaging the NSG in that manner, kill all the hostages once they get to the top floor; and then start throwing grenades out of windows. When they are alone and surrounded by NSGs, they will detonate the RDX, taking out the entire building along with the huge number of NSGs.

That is why they are tactically retreating upwards; so as to draw more and more NSGs into the building as each floor needs extra men to guard it once taken.

I have a feeling that this is going to end in total catastrophe. I hope it doesnt happen that way, but I suspect that the NSG have not thought this through.

If it were me running things, I would have helidropped NSG commandos onto the roof, and get them stealthily in position on the top floors ready to take out the terrorists when they finally reach there.

No NSG fatalities thusfar, but lets hope it stays that way.