Germany to Cause WW3

Originally posted by xXxArMaGeDdOnxXx
I was discussing this with one of my colleges and I am still thinking.. if after world war one germany was able to cause war world 2 what makes you guys not think they can cause world war 3?

I guess "anything" is possible. But then again, the US may start WW3... or Russia. or China.... or the aliens.

Why are you thinking of Germany in particular? just because of WW2? I think that it's more likely that WW3 will actually be no war at all but just breakdown of society and civil unrest.

WW3 will be the war of the powerful against the powerless.


-rrr

reply to post by blowfishdl

Israel currently operates three Dolphin-class submarines made in Germany. The construction of two more submarines - ordered following the Second Lebanon War in 2006 - is scheduled to be completed by 2010.

According to foreign media reports, Israel's submarines are capable of launching a "second strike" in the event of a nuclear attack against Israel.

The Dolphin-class submarines are the most expensive platforms in the IDF's arsenal. Germany donated the first two submarines to Israel as a gift after the first Gulf War, and split the cost of the third.

i honestly advise you to read beyond the headlines.

[edit on 2008.11.25 by Long Lance]

reply to post by Long Lance

large tubes on boats are by no means the only way to launch nuclear armed cruise missiles, their air force could do that in a pinch, it's merely another platform and a stealthy option, if the Israelis really wanted to

To be completely honest, I don't think the Israeli government would take a stealthy approach. They are surrounded by a lot enemies, and show no quarrel with continually poke the beehive by seizing new, or defending established, settlements in areas that are clearly Palestinian. While the US has shown pretty much unilateral support for the Israeli government - damned neared every president in the last 30+ years has been advising them to get their asses out of territory that's not theirs if they want to start building a lasting peace.

Israel has never struck me as subtle in regards to their domestic and foreign policy. They have to show a tough front, and they have to prove that they can back it up with action - or else they'd have been overrun years ago. Other nations in the middle east don't necessarily need nukes for a MAD policy to be in effect. They can wipe out Israel if they so choose - but Israel must rely on it's allies in the West, their own skill, and apparently nukes as a deterant to keep this from happening. They're going to let their enemies know that war with them will end badly for ALL involved.

Besides, if Israel were going to drop nukes, I really don't see them doing it from the water. They'd probably launch from well within Israeli territory - or more than likely be mounted on an aircraft. The IAF are bar-none some of the absolute best pilots in the world. I've read about some of the combat exercises they run against the USAF and RAF pilots and our best efforts are often little more than an embarrassment in comparison to them. If the need ever arises, they would be the ones to turn to to get the job done. Even taking stealth into the equation, they've been known to penetrate deep into hostile territory, take out multiple targets, and then get the hell out before anybody even knew what hit them.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by Lasheic]

lol if e germans wanted all the land they took over in the war because they won that land.THEN ENGLAND WOULD STILL OWN HALF OF THE EARTH an all we have now is a small island.

reply to post by Lasheic


the air force would do its thing, for sure, and so would the IRBMs, sub launched nukes would only supplement these other branches. if they even exist, that is, which is imho likely.

btw, by stealth i mean tactical procedures rather than political or strategic posture.

reply to post by Long Lance


I know what you're saying. I could see them, not so much as a supplement - but as a contingency. IRBM sites can be tracked and taken out. Airforce bases generally aren't mobile, and can be targeted. I find it unlikely that they would be taken out before Israel had a chance to mobilize, but yes - it's possible. Rockets and Air superiority would be their first line of defense though.

If such is the case, then why would Germany's gift or "payment" or whatever of those submarines really mean? Nothing. If Israel was going to launch a surprise nuclear attack on a hostile nation, they have the means to do so already - and have had that capability for a long time now.

Should something happen and those primary methods fail, however, a nuclear armed sub would be much, much harder to target and destroy. Thus, it has a greater chance of survival in a conflict. Israel would likely exhaust their conventional Nuclear weaponry from the ground or the air, and save the subs armament as a last resort.


That's really the point I'm trying to get at.




[edit on 25-11-2008 by Lasheic]

Oh, and the new video dropped. So to go along with the spirit of the OP thinking Germans just go around starting World Wars for the fun of it - I present this. German Nazi vampires starting their own "WWIII" and zombie apocalypse just for the fun of it, starting off by turning London into one big blood stain on the landscape.

I'm putting up the link only... view at your own risk. It's only a cartoon, but some may find it highly disturbing. Contains extreme violence, gore, cannibalism, baby eating, and probably some horribly mangled engrish here and there.

www.youtube.com...

Sorry, it's RAW. No english and only intermittent subtitles as of yet. The fun starts at 1:50.

No, Germany will not start World War 3. Germany is in the G8. It's part of the 'in crowd'.

And World War II was started by Rome.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by LordCarpainter]

Originally posted by Long Lance
reply to post by blowfishdl

 

Israel currently operates three Dolphin-class submarines made in Germany. The construction of two more submarines - ordered following the Second Lebanon War in 2006 - is scheduled to be completed by 2010.

According to foreign media reports, Israel's submarines are capable of launching a "second strike" in the event of a nuclear attack against Israel.

The Dolphin-class submarines are the most expensive platforms in the IDF's arsenal. Germany donated the first two submarines to Israel as a gift after the first Gulf War, and split the cost of the third.

i honestly advise you to read beyond the headlines.

[edit on 2008.11.25 by Long Lance]

Okay I read beyond the headlines, and even the little bit of input you had in this thread. I still thoroughly do not see proof of Germany causing WW3.

Did it cause WW3 when we gave Israel nukes as a gift because they are our ally? Did they immediately launch them against Iran for calling them a stinking corpse? The whole theory is bull-honky and based on nothing other than mere trading of goods.

I think that it's pretty clear that WW3 will be caused by a shortage of Antonio York DVD's

reply to post by blowfishdl


nah, that conclusion is the OP's (and MV's) not mine, all i wanted to make clear was that a) Israel got a couple German subs and b) these are likely armed with NSLCMs...

sure, the article on German-Egypt sub sales is a peculiar source, but then it's a bit less likely to get 'edited' to minimize or bias the tidbit on German - Israeli sub deals, which is only included for reference.

reply to post by Lasheic



yeah, subs are usually considered a second strike tool. i wonder if Mopus Vindictus would have any problems with a second i.e a retaliatory strike, but i can already guess.

reply to post by Long Lance


I couldn't comment on Mopus's suspected response, but I will say that - depending on the situation, nuclear subs could quite well be a first strike tool. They are for the United States and Russia. However, our two nations have substantial nuclear stockpiles and excellent intelligence on where each other's nukes are stored or launched from, and we have our missiles trained on each other's launch facilities.

So for us, Nuclear armed subs are the only way to keep a modicum of surprise and tactical advantage over the other. They are our primary arsenal, because our ground and air arsenals are already in the crosshairs. Israel, however, has no considerable nuclear opponent. Nor do their opponents have the level of intelligence gathering that the US and Russia has. For them, right now, any sea based launching platform would be a secondary attack platform - because of the likelihood of their primary launch methods being subverted or destroyed are low.

We may end up seeing a transition to a primarily sea based launching platform if other middle-eastern nations build up their nuclear stockpiles and information warfare. As it is now, however, the only nation which could pose a nuclear threat to Israel is Pakistan - whom already have their Nukes currently trained on targets in India and (to the best of my knowledge) is not overtly hostile to Israel. Besides, Pakistan is on amicable terms with the US, so I doubt they'd risk trading away our support in exchange for a nuclear assault by attacking an ally of ours that their government doesn't see as a threat.

Germany has already started WWIII by helping to create the E.U. ! Its more likely that the E.U. itself could cause WWIII. If you dont live here you dont see the steady erosion of civil liberties all done in the name of good causes, just ready for some nut-job to take control and misuse. Cameras everywhere, theocratic legislation, mis-trust between the authorities and the general public etc etc. Bring on WWIII, at least it'l wipe oute some of the A***holes!

reply to post by xXxArMaGeDdOnxXx


You obviously have little understanding of the German people or the German political system, I live in Germany and here in Germany we do not go for charismatic politicians because the last time we went for charismatic politicians all hell broke loose. We prefer our politicians to be ugly and boring. Also Germany does not like war, the entire nation is filled with pacifists and Germans are so guilt stricken to this very day that the thought of going to war against anyone is preposterous. You desperately need a History lesson.

Originally posted by Lasheic
... but I will say that - depending on the situation, nuclear subs could quite well be a first strike tool...

anything can be used for first strike, because it's much less demanding than reacting to an attack in time.

this issue was basically 'solved' on a technical level by solid rocket boosters, because you can save your arsenal from being pulverized on the ground by launching it...

...which of course means that you've got a few minutes to make that decision - if you want more, then your nukes must be more survivable. in that case you might even wait and see if a) the missile was in fact carrying an NBC warhead or not (!) if it b) even strikes where you expected it to and c) if all goes wrong assess the damage you actually suffered, all before hitting the apocalypse button, giving you one more chance to avoid it altogether.


yes, this might be a rare instance where Murphy's law might actually work in your favor (dud, etc). in that case, a nuclear sub arm will raise the threshold for nuclear war, which can only be a good thing.

PS: there's two sides to every coin.

[edit on 2008.11.27 by Long Lance]

"England"

England isn't the name of our country. We're the United Kingdom. England is one of the union states.

What a stupid post. Do you even know where Germany is?? ...or how about...BEEN THERE??...no???

how about knowing any German (young or old)???
Heard for yourself that the German people are united in their ashamedness concerning their history (1915 - 45)...??

No???

The German people will never let it happen again. Ever.

Any suggestion to the contrary proves you know nothing and that you probably have never been near Europe let alone the country you're criticising. Sitting in Arkansas, or similar, and thinking Youtube/Prisonplanet are providing you with a political education - says otherwise. Clearly.


[edit on 27/11/2008 by bingmat]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I cant read any more of your posts in this thread because your entire argument is based on conjecture. All your evidence ia erroneously based on the assumption that WW3 will happen soon because Israel has the means to do so and was provided with that means by Germany.

Laying blame on Germany for supplying an ally with advanced weapons is the same as blaming Performance Arts for the death of Abraham Lincoln, because John Wilkes Booth shot him in a theater.

reply to post by xXxArMaGeDdOnxXx


Basically, WWII was just a continuation of WWI.b