Gruesome Iraq Images Could Shake U.S. Opinion

you dont think americans would act like this if theyre country was invaded native okie?????

The human condition and mentality would for the most part react like that every where

do you consider that theese are just a few people and not a entire village or thousands of people doing this??

your solution then is to nuke the place and turn it into a parkin lot ...right???
may be you should sign up to go over there and enact a little of your flag waving vengence on them...
then theyd learn a good lesson wouldnt they?

would you risk your life to enact a little vengence on theese people....if the answer is no .....then dont ask others to do it....if the answer is yes then go over there and do it your self....
if you live by the sword you will die by it

Here is civilized!
Click the link, but be warned it's a little disturbing.
I don't know the validity (sp) of this video, but I've heard that this is how saddams son rewarded one of his olympic teams for not bringing home the gold.

Either way it's just what I heard. Anyone know anything about it?
www.schpaa.com...

[Edited on 1-4-2004 by baked]

the endless cycle of frickin violence will never end...we have hotheaded people who want to level iraq now, and the military is saying they are not going to leave because a "few" loyalists...the world is going to hell on an express flight and we the US are providing the jets.

(accepting the opinion that Bin Laden orchestrated 9/11)
do you know why we had 9/11?
because we are in Arab countries that don't want our involvement and because of our one sided stance in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and us trying to bring change and democracy to people who don't want it. (if they do, let them fight among themselves for it)

what ever happen to covert operations and secret funding to promote change? since when is war the only option? There was never an immediate threat from Saddam and his dumb ass lied about WMD's because his people were fleecing him and he didn't even know it.

i regret the loss of all lives lost... the almost 600 soldiers, the numerous civilians and reporters and the thousands of Iraqis....but bombing fallujah and killing more iraqis will not ease tensions and will not solve anything..it will only create more violence...and if you are too blind to see that..which the majority seems to be..it only convinces me that all is lost and things will only progressively get worse.



[Edited on 4-1-2004 by worldwatcher]

Baked:

Civilized is relative.

Hiroshima Mon Amour

and another thing...the same iraqis that so many are defending from Saddam and his sons are the same Iraqis now protesting and committing these atrocities..

and for those who say that these people are the minority...open your eyes...where are the supporters of liberation in Iraq? Why do you not see mass support for US? Why is it that the ones who say they support us are the ones being questioned when an american soldier with a gun is standing next to them?

Just think if this was reverse...we would all be doing the same #....so all in all...you, I , we, everyone are all hypocrites.

Originally posted by Joseph Knecht
Baked:

Civilized is relative.

Hiroshima Mon Amour

you keep referring to something that happend half a century ago and several aeveral different regimes ago.
American mentality is way different now.
Do you think we would be so quick to do it now?
Do you think that saddam would not have nuked Israel if he had them?

Your right it is relative.

o.k. ....you want something recent in u.s. history to show our civilized attitude toward others

its called vietnam.
half a million people dead .
alot of them in hanoi from high altitude bombings
many bodies never found because they were blown to bits.

now ask your self if 500 pound or thousand pound bombs obliterating bodies into nothingness is more civilized than dragging and burning them in the streets????

Some more civilized actions:

Geographical distribution of female genital mutilation
An estimated 135 million of the world's girls and women have undergone genital mutilation, and two million girls a year are at risk of mutilation - approximately 6,000 per day. It is practised extensively in Africa and is common in some countries in the Middle East. It also occurs, mainly among immigrant communities, in parts of Asia and the Pacific, North and Latin America and Europe.

FGM is reportedly practised in more than 28 African countries (see FGM in Africa: Information by Country (ACT 77/07/97)). There are no figures to indicate how common FGM is in Asia. It has been reported among Muslim populations in Indonesia, Sri Lanka and Malaysia, although very little is known about the practice in these countries. In India, a small Muslim sect, the Daudi Bohra, practise clitoridectomy.

In the Middle East, FGM is practised in Egypt, Oman, Yemen and the United Arab Emirates.

www.amnesty.org...

you keep referring to something that happend half a century ago and several aeveral different regimes ago.

Have you not seen the people all over this board talk about nuking Iraq? Wiping out entire cities?

I don't think human nature has changed in half a century, so therefore it is important that we examine these things with the hopes of human nature's benefit for the future. Fatal as this may be, people need to understand.

sorry off topic...
we all won twats congrats everyone!

Yes your right......

If somebody came into America and invaded it with the slogan "American liberation" but not liberating, but oppressing, and shoving a so called "democratic" society down our throats, I think we'd be pissed too.

I think we'd enjoy lynching their asses.

You can't go into another country and "dictate" to them what kind of society they are going to live in.

If you go back in the history books, Iraq has always been an independant head strong country, until the dictators found their way in of course.


I was watching a show in the history channel about Iraq today, and it used to be a civilized nation... Still are today in fact, people have their own moral code, and cannot just easily swallow someone else's moral code.


They want to rule their own country... If it's on the brink of anarchy, so be it... Things will sort themselves out.
I know that the American military and friends, don't do as good a job as they CLAIM THEY DO.

Open up your history books.

Originally posted by Joseph Knecht

Have you not seen the people all over this board talk about nuking Iraq? Wiping out entire cities?

Those people who talk about "killing them all" and "leveling the city" are just as barbaric as those idiots who mutilated those corpses. They're reacting with raw emotion and not logic.

I used to think that this was a universal thing, but seeing the Spanish people's reaction to their tragedy I have my doubts. It's culture I guess. It's easy to say "we should just kill all those ragheads" and not think about the people involved. Children, innocent people, families, people trying to just live their lives in the midst of chaos.

But no, "let's just blo' dem up wit a big bomb duurrr".....

Originally posted by worldwatcher
Just think if this was reverse...we would all be doing the same #....so all in all...you, I , we, everyone are all hypocrites.

We believe that violence is a crime and immoral....and yet we flock to entertainment material (movies, video games, tv, books/comics) that are filled with violent scenerios for the sake of enjoyment.

We believe that sex is something that should not be talked about and scream about Jackson's breast incident....and yet we dump probably trillions of dollars into the porn industry for enjoyment.

We believe that it is moral to 'turn the other cheek' and 'treat others how we wish to be treated'....and yet we strive for causes that limit or outlaw the way that other people want to live their lives.


We, as a species, are hypocritical and nothing more then animals that say our own urges are 'evil' and then follow them anyway. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that we are more then we actually are. Even when animals fight for food or shelter or mates, they rarely kill their own so perhaps we are even worse then them.



Happy Thought For The Day: #478
I really have to go play with some fluffy bunnies or something.

Originally posted by Bout TimeYou sir are completely wrong.....we have a "defense" budget 10 times larger than the next 25 states after us.

youre wrong, our defense budget in comparison to our total budget is only 5% higher in average than those next 25 nations, we dont spend an exorbant amount on our military, we spend just about as much as most nations do on defense, to maintain our military at a minimal level costs about 200 billion(or close, not sure exactly) alone so your point here is exaggerated.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound

Even if we packed up tomorrow and left Iraq, the rest of the world is still going to hate us. People want a scapegoat for their problems and we're easy to talk crap at, because they know we are too humanitarian to just walk in and slaughter them all.

What's this WE bull#? I'm guessing the only thing you'd be slaughtering are terrorists in Counter Strike.

Here's a question.

If your country (whichever it is) was occupied by a corrupt regime that just wanted to take control of your own country's natural resources, and they killed your children - what would you do ?



[Edited on 1-4-2004 by Pisky]

Originally posted by Pisky
Here's a question.

If your country (whichever it is) was occupied by a corrupt regime that just wanted to take control of your own country's natural resources, and they killed your children - what would you do ?

I think that we all know the answer to that although some may not want to admit the relievence of the question.

Well to those of you who say we should "eye for an eye" or just bomb the Sunni Triangle into a parking lot, you are no better than the barbaric murderers who did this.

Nice of you to show your outrage and say you want revenge, but why don't you shut your mouth instead. Are you there? Have you sacrificed ANYTHING in this war? Are you actually in any danger? Take your moral outrage and stuff it.

You get upset when an American is killed and then when an Iraqi civilian is killed you say "Hey it's war, sometimes it happens". Well, sometimes this happens too. Soldiers and mercenaries are paid to die.

Invaders tend to be treated a little shabbily by the conquered. All the way back to Imperial Rome.

These people weren't frickin medics or anything, they were HIRED mercenaries who were recruited by the Bushies from a company called Blackwater.

www.theage.com.au...

"Last month Blackwater USA flew a first group of about 60 former commandos, many of whom had trained under the military government of Augusto Pinochet, from Santiago to a 970-hectare training camp in North Carolina."

Including some nice commandos from Pinochet's dictatorial regime, who is now up on War Crimes. Buncha nice guys, I'd imagine.

Of course it was barbaric that they were dragged through the streets and dismembered, but Mob Mentality makes people do some sick shyte. You see it all the time.

So these guys were paid to be in Iraq as hired guns and they got killed in Fallujah, one of the most dangerous places in Iraq for the Coalition.

If there hadn't been any of this dismemberment and horror, this would have been a tiny news item along the bottom of the screen on CNN. Because it was broadcast ad nauseum on Al Jazeera and worldwide, the US had to take notice.

You won't even see the complete footage on US TV because it must be sanitized. War is hell, but if you really saw what war was, maybe you wouldn't support illegal invasions.

War is about inhuman acts, barbarism, murder and dismemberment. Always has, always will. Anyone who promotes war is either evil or stupid or both.





[Edited on 2-4-2004 by Jakomo]

Oh and it's supposedly illegal to use mercs in the Occupied Areas (according to the Geneva Convention anyway)

www.vbs.admin.ch...

International Convention against the Recruitment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries


More on Blackwater at these links

www.cnn.com...

www.greene.xtn.net...

www.motherjones.com...




[Edited on 2-4-2004 by Jakomo]

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Each side of the war debate will use this to justify their views, like usual.

Personally, this does piss me off, but I expect things like this when you try to deal with Barbarians in a civilized way. I'm all for peace and live and let live, but we need to go ahead and instill some fear into those people since that is the only thing they understand or respect.
Please don't fall into the trap themedia has set up for you to chew on.... This isn't true.
Even if we packed up tomorrow and left Iraq, the rest of the world is still going to hate us. People want a scapegoat for their problems and we're easy to talk crap at, because they know we are too humanitarian to just walk in and slaughter them all.

You could flip it around and look at it like American government/military are the barbarians with trying to install a "so called" democracy... Where the Iraqi's have always been a civilized repubic before dictatorship took over. Wouldn't you want your own country run by your own people?? Wouldn't you like the chance at setting up a government system, maybe not even a government system... Maybe they have another plan... What's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander... gov and military and trying to give them the same kind of thing they set up over here, maybe they don't want that... Maybe they are the barbarians... Even before they saw America as the "white devil" so please tell me, how you could consider them barbarians.... It's just not so..




The plan isn't to slaughter them, and it shouldn't be plan B either............ The plan was to give them the same kind of democracy the government has set up over here............ They are fighting it because they don't want that. They don't want to have American so called democracy put on them........They have been a free republic in the past, and i'm sure they want to set up the same kind of system they had before dictatorship... Why can't american gov/military let them do it their way?????????

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by TrueLies]

I'm a bit perturbed by the idea that these images could really "shake US opinion"... We know damn well that there are people dying; this is war, not Candyland, and if a picture of a dead guy is enough to change your mind, then I pity you.

These men died doing something that the three thousand in the World Trade Centers, and the tens of thousands murdered by Saddam, never did-- volunteering. They signed up for this, and, in my opinion, they're doing an admirable job of it.