Behold, the black horse of Revelation!

reply to post by TheRedneck


Redneck,

If it sent chills down your spine you should have been the one that had it lol.
Your interpretation might be dead on I never thought about that. I know I told someone that the white horse had already come and run its course because of that dream and that the red horse was still running. Maybe after 2007 it was finished and it was time for the black horse to take its place. I don’t know why but after that dream 2007 had something to it.

In that dream I seen them run up/climb the two trees (twin towers) and leap off as the trees vanished into thin air. The pumas jumped to the surrounding trees in the forest. I could hear them and for some reason I made noise I have no idea why (I guess I was standing up to them) to frighten them away. Well that did not work and they were basically on me in seconds when beforehand they had been football fields, not just one, away. At that point I climbed a tree to escape and they took their places as described above. The black horse (puma) certainly seemed to have more patience than the red. So you might be right in that the red was about to be ushered out.

I will never forget the eyes in them either. Of course I got the best look at the red one but I can tell you those eyes have stuck with me since that dream. They were the eyes of demons or something other worldly for sure. I would have given a more detailed description in the last post but I just wanted to get the basics out. This will give you somewhat of a better setting to the dream. By the way I had this dream in early/mid 2005.

Raist

Hey Redneck, this is a great topic. Eschatology is one of my favorite things to ponder and discuss. Thanks for all the research you did here. You've certainly brought something new to the table.

Truth be told, I had always thought that the USA could not be found anywhere in Bible prophecy and would thus be of little or no consequence during the times of prophetic fulfillment. Your interpretation of the black horse, however, has me rethinking that position.

Please feel free to throw us some more ideas or interpretations if you've got anything in mind. I feel that this is a very important topic for us all.



[edit on 11/20/2008 by Lightmare]

This is probably not what you want to hear, but here goes.
666 is probably just ol Nero's number. However, over a very long stretch of time, you also might get a reverbration, of John of Patmos, in world history. Not that he predicted it, but that on some level, we got ourselves into fulfilling what we think he predicted.
!. white horse, Colonialism, 1492 +, the system of mecantlism. lust for gold, Conquistadors.
2. red horse, Revolution, quillotines, to the K.G.B. Sharp Swords, Napoleon
3. black horse, Fascism, Nazis, Il Duce, Franco,and Hitler, only a short time spreading over the Earth.
4. Tawny horse, yellowish peril, mayhem and death, over a large part of the earth.
5. Remember the last horse, seperate from the group of four. Another white one, righteous rider??
This timeline, can be fleshed out in Nostradamus, with the exception that "Stones hidden in the star's beard, (Comet), may be the incident to scatter whatever's left of enormous populations out of the Orient. A 530 AD, event at Krakatoa, did in Europe, for a couple of centuries of darkness, but in N. Africa, the muslims just got greened up, and had a boom time. Tambura, caused Napoleon's army to freeze in Russia, with the year without a summer. The GREAT ROUND Mt. is probably just Mt. St. Helens, May 18th, 1980. Round from the NASA perspective, and it's famous photo, looking straight down from a U-2, at 65000ft. Olymic festulan, meaning something with the Olympic Penn. or Olympia, Wash.. The muddy waters of the Columbia River, carried the lahars, out to the Pacific, and crossed the North South strike of the Olympic Mts..
Coming volcanic Event, or meteorite swarm following a comet flyby, these are the heavy hitters, that wiped out Rome, Napoleon, and maybe much of our world, when in a few hours, everything changes. For me, I'll always remember those big warm snowflakes, falling in darkness, on that afternoon in 1980. Note that all Radio, and T.V. was blacked out, in the fallout areas. Only an 8:15AM blurb on the Turner TV channel from Atlanta, that Mt. St. Helens had blown it's top, in Washington State.
I guess it's "To Each his own". Carpooler

reply to post by badmedia


He is leader of the supposed Free World, and dont forget how much power we as america have in the UN. Theirfor in a twisted way, (and alot of prophecy is all interpretation.) he is the leader of the world, or much of it...

reply to post by carpooler

Sometimes the most important things we hear are those things we don't want to hear.

I've actually heard your theory before, and it seems plausible on the surface. But there are a few problems I have with it. The first is the fifth horse you mention. He appears in Revelation 19:11-16. The timeline is completely different, as the horses in Chapter 6 are in the line which begins with Jesus as the slain lamb able to open the seals, and ends with the seventh trumpet of the seventh seal being blown in Chapter 11. It seems pretty obvious to me that Chapter 12 begins a completely new timeline that begins with the birth of Jesus again from the woman clothed with the sun and standing on the moon, and His war with Satan. Also, the rider in Revelation 19 is pretty well identified with the names "Faithful" and "True" and "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS". That opposed to "Death" and "Hell" as used for the name of the fourth rider in Revelation 6.

As to the eras of history, that is pretty close to what I was saying, only I can seem to tie individual countries as horses and individual riders to people.

The other major problem is what happens next, after the four horses and the four seals. I won't go into detail here (as that may be my next thread on this subject), but I will say that Chapters 7-11 demonstrate a lot of continuity with reference to the seven seals and seven trumpets. And not many of those events can be shown to have happened yet.

I also love to read Nostradamus. Some of his quatrains are intriguing, and he does seem to have a very good record on predictions coming to pass. Yet, due to the political/theological pressures of the time he lived in, he used a lot of liberty in disguising his visions to prevent himself from being prosecuted as a heretic or blasphemer. I have heard (but have not verified) that when Nostradamus completed his centuries, he tossed them all up in the air, and then published them in the order he randomly picked them up again (sort of like 52-card pick-up, if anyone remembers that card game ). So while it is very easy to look back on his prophesies and match them to things in the past, it is much harder to look at them and understand what will happen in the future.

Thanks for posting though. I bet we could each learn something from the other's interpretation.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by Gunsron
He is leader of the supposed Free World, and dont forget how much power we as america have in the UN. Theirfor in a twisted way, (and alot of prophecy is all interpretation.) he is the leader of the world, or much of it...

I guess I should clarify. I'm not saying he isn't, but rather that the reasons given alone don't make it so. It is more about what he wants to do that bothers me, as opposed to him being a smooth talker etc.

I will admit that I worried the next president would be such, but based on the direction of the country rather than those things. Long before Obama was elected. But that could easily just be me projecting things on my own perspective based on my own worries instead of being truth. As many have done in the past. So I remain hopeful it's not true.

But a yahoo article I seen yesterday of him changing the direction of homeland security to be more focused on domestic issues was a bit unsettling.

I'm a republican of the Ron Paul type, so I am certainly no fan of his.


[edit on 21-11-2008 by badmedia]

Great job Redneck. I have indeed learned much from reading people's interpretations. It is very interesting to say the least. The theory about some of the seals having been broken for a long time is also very intruiging. For some reason, I've always thought all of the seals and trumpets would occur within several years, not decades or centuries. Who knows though, the theory is definitely possible. These things will come to pass on God's time after all, not ours. I'd had the tentative opinion that the first horse was responsible for the war in Iraq and all the war that will almost certainly result from it. The second horse turning everyone against each other could apply to what's happening right now. The third horse with, of course, the economic imbalance looming over our heads. The result of the second and third horses will result in many people being killed, which is the fourth horse.

It's all very interesting and I'm looking forward to hearing more of the opinions here. I'm glad I posted about the horses in another thread. Redneck, couldn't you just continue the analysis and discussion here rather than start another thread?

I believe it was the apostle John that wrote this while he was a political and religious prisoner in Patmos, a rocky island used as a Roman prison off the western coast of Asia Minor near Ephesus. John says this in 1:9.

The fifth seal involves the voice of martyred Christians asking God to take vengence for their lives. The sixth seal is a great earthquake. The sun becomes as dark as black cloth and the moon becomes blood red. Then the stars of the sky fell to earth like green figs falling from a tree shaken by a strong wind. The sky was rolled up like a scroll, and all of the mountains and islands were moved from their places. All the kings of the earth fled to the mountains hoping to evade the wrath of the Lamb.

I am pretty sure though that one of the catclysmic events mentioned later on is the eruption of the Yellowstone supervolcano. That thing is way overdue and when it erupts, it will be an extinction level event that will effect the entire world. Definitely biblical proportions.

Can't wait for more discussion!
God Bless

Edited for wording

[edit on 21-11-2008 by Kratos1220]

Edited to add: Doesn't the prophesy state that the Antichrist will only rule over the world for 1260 days? That's just over three years. I used to think the Antichrist was Bush, but he has ruled for much longer than that already and he hasn't exactly ruled over the whole world. If the world will truly end in 2012 as the mayan calenders seem to suggest, perhaps it is Obama? 2009 to 2012 would be three years.

When I studied Bible code a couple years ago, the last prediction was a pole shift in 2012 after many asteroid and comet impacts and the eruption of Yellowstone in late 2010. For what it's worth, this code did predict several events to me before they happened. It played a significant role in getting me to fully acknowledge my faith earlier this year, but many other things were already in place for my awakening prior to this. I stopped following it because it kinda freaked me out and I didn't want to worry anymore.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by Kratos1220]

Edited to add again: I lost the text files I had all this recorded on with my old computer, but I do remember that the pole shift was caused by a massive asteroid that hits Canada and punches a hole in the earth's crust. Another of the impact locations was Rome and another in the sea. I wish I still had those studies of my records. Anyways, I'm done editing I think.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by Kratos1220]

wow people still consider the bible a reliable source....okkkkkk

I voted for Obama and yet,

I still think he could hypothetically fill the antichrist role and here's why.

He's got the saviour image, he is friendly with the Jewish & Muslim leaders and liked by all of those nations. He is liked by all of Europe, and South America / Cuba is eyeing him closely for future relations.

I could picture a President Obama meeting in Jerusalem with top Israeli and Palestinian leaders in an official Peace Treaty Declaration. Perhaps after this, in a silent, quiet, alone moment, Obama might have visions of self-grandeur at the temple mount / wailing wall / al-aqsa masjid, and quietly speak to himself that he is messiah.

Which would fulfill prophecy..

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by Gunsron
I to directly thought of Obama being the black horsman, as mentioned above...

I do not study the Bible enough, to hold as intulectual of a conversation as i would like, but if my memmory serves me right, does Revelation not say that their will be a false prophet that comes befor the second comeing of christ, who will be of a middle eastern decendancy.... It also mentions something about being a verry good speaker, who is verry charismatic and of forked tongue (ie: a snake, who in the garden decieves) and hasnt obama allready shown himself to be a liar who can lead many without them questioning?

just some food for thought

The only problem is that pretty much describes any politician outside the ethnics of it. Also, he would have to be leader of the world, which he is not.

Good point. That being said however, does Obama not fit the other "requirements" better than the other politicians? I mean, McCain can't claim to be of middle eastern descent as easily as Obama can. Now, as for the "leader of the world" requirement. Can it not be seen as metaphorical in nature?

After all, Obama did do his little world tour before the election to try and rally people from the world to rally behind him, and he did mention that he sees himself as a "citizen of the world" or some such ridiculous nonsense. Also, take into account, that on a certain level, america does hold a big chunk of influence over the world, what the leadership here in the U.S. does CAN have an effect world wide, just look at our economic crisis. So, one could make the argument that being president of the U.S. could put you in the position of a "world wide leadership"

Add to that Obama's (or his writer actually) great skills as an orator, watch the masses how they worship him in a cult like fashion, and you can kinda see how he might be (emphasis on might be) a perfect candidate for the role of anti-christ.

reply to post by A child of the King


I'm not sure why your reply was directed at me.

Any relation to what I had to say in my post?

[edit on 21-11-2008 by TheRedneck]

Want to start out by saying thanks to Red. for replying to my questions and to others. I am getting a lot of good thought out from this post

But i have some new question. And its related to Gods seal on prophecies,because i personally think that we need to focus on what the seal really is. Because it is the seal that makes us spin in circles.
If we know what the seal is. Then we can figure out what the text in rev. Might be saying. And we can start to decipher the old language to fit our language.

I dont think the seal is in the text it self. It is something else that is sealing the prophecies from our understanding.

I have done a lot of reading and thinking about this topic.

And i wonder.
Is this topic!! the books of Rev. suppose to be handled like this.

Is this the right way to finding the real meaning of the prophecies.
Do we really have to go back in time to figure out the text.
Who's idea was that!!
And why ?

Dose the books or God tell us to do that?

Or do we suspect that some one has made a mistake in translation. Or tampered with the text.
If thats the case we steal have to break the seal to figure them out. Dont we ?



Gods message and prophecies is meant for all the people.

To me that means that every one is really suppose to understand them.
Its not just words for some people to understand. Because we are all equal in the eyes of God.

What dose God mean by knowledge?

What do you think knowledge is compared to what God is saying ?

What kind of knowledge do we really need to understand the prophecies?

God describes knowledge in two ways.

1. Knowledge tough by God.

2. Knowledge taught by Man.

Do we need to figure out what knowledge we are using before we start to get smart.
I am just wondering








[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by Question

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by Gunsron
I to directly thought of Obama being the black horsman, as mentioned above...

I do not study the Bible enough, to hold as intulectual of a conversation as i would like, but if my memmory serves me right, does Revelation not say that their will be a false prophet that comes befor the second comeing of christ, who will be of a middle eastern decendancy.... It also mentions something about being a verry good speaker, who is verry charismatic and of forked tongue (ie: a snake, who in the garden decieves) and hasnt obama allready shown himself to be a liar who can lead many without them questioning?

just some food for thought

The only problem is that pretty much describes any politician outside the ethnics of it. Also, he would have to be leader of the world, which he is not.

Good point. That being said however, does Obama not fit the other "requirements" better than the other politicians? I mean, McCain can't claim to be of middle eastern descent as easily as Obama can. Now, as for the "leader of the world" requirement. Can it not be seen as metaphorical in nature?

After all, Obama did do his little world tour before the election to try and rally people from the world to rally behind him, and he did mention that he sees himself as a "citizen of the world" or some such ridiculous nonsense. Also, take into account, that on a certain level, america does hold a big chunk of influence over the world, what the leadership here in the U.S. does CAN have an effect world wide, just look at our economic crisis. So, one could make the argument that being president of the U.S. could put you in the position of a "world wide leadership"

Add to that Obama's (or his writer actually) great skills as an orator, watch the masses how they worship him in a cult like fashion, and you can kinda see how he might be (emphasis on might be) a perfect candidate for the role of anti-christ.

My thoughts exactly....
At this point in time we can only hope that we will be proven wrong, if you read an above post of mine i said many of the same things, i've also coined the term Obamacult around my peers, for the above stated reason. Wonder what his symbol will be, i think 666 is a bit too touche'

Another thing I thought I would mention regarding a part of Revelations.

13:16 "And he (the Beast) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads"

"And without this mark, no man can buy or sell."

The FDA approved the use of microchip implants in humans on October 13th, 2004. Could the mark in the right hand be this chip and the one on the forehead perhaps being a tattoo? Microchip implants have been linked to cancer in animals, so it can't possibly be good for us either, right? I would say that not accepting this chip, regardless of the penalty, is the way to go. Perhaps this is what determines which christians will be martyred; the ones who refuse to receive this chip.

Edited for typo and to add the second quote.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by Kratos1220]

It has been my understanding that the horseman would be a little bit more coordinated than this. It's counter productive for them to be so spaced out in time allowing us to recover and overcome one horseman before the next.

reply to post by spy66

Great questions! I'll try to answer them as best I can, as seems right to my way of thinking. If I were God, I could give you a better answer, but then again the Universe would probably spin sideways and wipe itself out of existence too. In other words, I don't want that job. I'd rather drive a truck.

I do believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. I also believe God is a spirit as opposed to flesh. So it follows in my logic that any information we receive would have to come one of two ways: either through direct spiritual contact between our spirit and God's spirit, or by a similar contact between God and another human, and them passed down through physical means.

Throughout the OT, God communicated (after the garden of Eden) through prophets. The early Hebrews were even ruled not by kings, but by prophets, who were believed to receive the will of God through their contact with Him and disseminate that will to the people. Apparently something (which I attribute to sin due to human frailty and lust) prevented God from speaking directly to each and every person.

Jesus changed all of that, and the writings of the NT appear to mark the ending of this 'chosen one' era.

It is stated many times in both the OT and the NT that God does not change. That doesn't mean He cannot listen to prayers and requests, nor that He cannot be convinced of things, but rather that His core values, the things that make Him God, do not change. Just as on this forum, one may (as I have occasionally done) change their views on a specific issue due to information and argument form another, but that does not mean their outlook on life has changed. I may love animals; but I may also shoot and kill a vicious dog that I believe is going to attack one of my children. That does not mean I suddenly hate animals, only that in that instance I had to make a decision that appeared to go against my core belief, when in fact it did not.

So if we accept that 1) the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and that 2) the core principles of God do not change, then it would follow that everything taught before Jesus is still from the same God worshiped today, and still indicative of His principles. Arguments can be made as to 'why God did this' or 'why God did that', but really, all we know is what one man wrote when he was connected to the spirit of God. faith that an omnipotent God would not allow His message to be destroyed is why I (and many others) believe the Bible is true as written.

But even if what is written is true, it is written by a man. Men tend to state things in reference to the times they live in. I am sure of John were to have been shown a Stealth Bomber, he would have described it not as an 'airplane', for no such thing was in his knowledge base, but rather as a 'hideous black bird, of huge proportions and deadly'... or something to that effect. He would have described the things he saw in ways he could understand.

We should also remember that this was a vision, not a series of thoughts that he put to parchment. A vision is more sensory-oriented than a thought, so he would have written the vision in the same way one would write about a roller coaster ride or a beautiful sunset. He would have described the information coming to him, as opposed to copying it.

So yes, I believe it is essential to understand as much as possible of the Hebrew customs and traditions as possible in order to read the writings form the same perspective in which they were written. Perhaps that is a shortcoming of the prophecy itself, but how else could the information be passed down? Cultures change over time, since men change over time. technology changes, ideas change, social arrangements change, and every time one of those change, the context under which men describe their situation changes.

Take the following hypothetical example: Imagine someone from the 1800s suddenly being transported to modern day times. He would be amazed at the man-made mountains (buildings) and moving rooms (elevators) and horseless carriages (cars) we all take for granted. He could walk up to someone and ask "Where am I?" and get the following response:

"You are on Broad Street across from the Food Stamp office. The Unemployment Office is down two blocks on the right."

Now, being totally unfamiliar with what life today is like, he could easily think he is being told the following:

"You are on a wide road, and across from you is where they make stamps out of food. There is a place where they take people's jobs away, and the right side of it only has two blocks left; the rest fell down."

You see the problem?

TheRedneck

And the young man dideth readeth the Wordeth of the Lordeth, and listened to the Wordeth of the Lordeth, and did believeth it all. And he waited-eth on all of the things in the Bibleth to cometh true, and they did not.

And he dideth pray for loved ones to be healedth unto the Lordeth and the Lordeth dideth not, and the sick ones died.

And he didth waiteth for the Lordeth to come back as He said he would, and he still waited, and the Lordeth dideth not return.

And he didth waiteth in fear for the end of the World as the Lordeth saideth it would and the world did not end.

And he dideth some research into the words and deeds of the Lordeth and found the historical Lordeth seemed to be schizophrenic and unstable-eth.

And he did eventually realize he had been deceived unto the Lordeth.

Then one day someone dideth post yet another Biblical propechy-eth for the umpteenth-eth timeth on an Interweb forum and he didth get pi$$ed offeth unto the Lord.

And he grabbed the original poster and his Bible and dideth taketh him outeth behind the shedeth (unto the Lordeth) and didth maketh love unto him (unto the Lordeth) well into the night under the moon unto the Lordeth.

And the poster dideth howl unto the Lordeth all night long.

And he dideth like it.

And the young man felt better for the first time in years.

Unto the Lordeth.

reply to post by WhamBamTYM
And the postereth dideth wondereth why the youngeth man dideth not readeth the first paragrapheth in the threadeth.



TheRedneck

Originally posted by Zealott
It has been my understanding that the horseman would be a little bit more coordinated than this. It's counter productive for them to be so spaced out in time allowing us to recover and overcome one horseman before the next.

In my reading of the book "Obsession" i have found one of the greatest trueths of all time. To bring people hope, and then to crush it, this is ultimate power, for power depends on fear and hope together... Alowing each "horseman" to end brings hope of a new day of living without fear, but when the next "horseman" comes it brings fear in the relization that our world is falling apart.... Just my interpretation... and it would make since for it to be spread aprart the way it is, just long enough for us to think everything is going okay, and then as everythings looking good, it all starts falling down.... If i was satan, thats how i would do it.