Behold, the black horse of Revelation!

This will be a Biblical thread. Those who are offended by such, please find another thread to post in that does not offend you. Those who are not offended by Biblical quotes and discussion, welcome.

In compliance with the stated restrictions on the Predictions forum, I have asked for permission to post and am posting this in the Predictions forum after U2U approval from Intrepid, with the specified caveat that the mods may move it to another forum if they deem such appropriate (as is always understood to be their prerogative). My thanks to Intrepid for helping me with this decision.

Due to the civil unrest I am seeing in society today, I have been studying Revelation intensely lately, primarily focusing on Revelation Chapter 6. Today, I had an epiphany: I believe I know what the four horses represent, and I believe everyone who believes in Biblical prophesy should be made acutely aware at this time of what is happening and what will happen. First a preface for anyone who might not be aware: Revelation describes a vision that John had on the Isle of Patmos during an exile. We are not sure if this is the same John that followed Jesus as an apostle, but my personal feeling is that it is probably not. The book appears to have been penned some years after the Crucifixion. That is not really relevant to my point here in any case, but I felt it appropriate to stave off any accusations on this point.

I believe that prophesy is a very personal thing, and as such is primarily relevant to the person receiving the prophesy. Nostradamus, for example, was a Frenchman, and his predictions tend to center around France (although strangely the USA as well). John was Jewish by all accounts, and therefore according to this assumption his prophesy would center around his own people, the Jews (but possibly the Christians as well, since he was also a Christian).

Revelation 6 starts off after the following occurs in his vision: a book in the throne room of God is seen and cannot be opened for no man is 'worthy' to do so. A lamb, slain as if in slaughter (Jesus) appears and can open the book. This book is sealed with seven seals which must be broken one at a time. As we begin in Revelation 6, we see what happens beginning with the breaking of the first seal:
Source: www.apostolic-churches.net...

Starting in verse two, the color white is the word leukos, which means not just white, but a dazzling white, as the white of righteousness or that of the angels. The rider is on this brilliant white horse, which signifies some righteous action toward the Jewish/Christian people. The rider has a bow, bow being the word toxon. Toxon is derived from the base of tikto, which refers to the act of bringing forth or being born. That confused me, so I searched some more. Toxon also refers to a fabric, as in a rough fabric (which I read as meaning fresh from being made). The word crown, from the word stephanos, refers to several things: it can mean a wreath or adornment (such as Jesus' crown of thorns), a symbol of royalty, or simply something that is both ornamental and prized by the wearer.

So we have, according to this translation attempt, someone riding on righteousness toward the Jewish people, who has in his hand a rough fabric 'bow' that symbolizes new birth, and this rider receives an ornamental royal stature. One person in history since Jesus fits this description.

Napoleon Bonaparte was known for his ornamental dress. He was declared Emporer of France, despite having come from a non-royal family. He conquered the area of the world that included modern-day Israel at the peak height of his conquests, and according to the research I have discovered, was of mind to set up Israel as a homeland for the Jews (bring about a rebirth of Israel as a nation). He was defeated as he reached Jerusalem, and never got to carry out his plans. From a letter to the Jewish people from Bonaparte himself:Source: ameliefr.club.fr...

So having seen a correlation between Napoleon and the white horse rider, let us examine the next horse in verse 4. This horse was red (purrhos: the color of fire), and the rider who sat on it was to take peace (eirene) from the earth (ge). Eirene is not exactly peace as we would interpret the word, although it is close. It comes from a primary verb eiro which means 'to join', and refers to national tranquility, personal tranquility, quiet tranquility after death, security, and prosperity. Ge refers to the earth as a whole, or to a nation. Thus we can interpret this as taking prosperity and tranquility from a nation, that nation being again connected with John personally: the Jewish nation.

This rider does more, however. His appearance allows them (they) to kill (sphazo) one another, and he was given a great (megas) sword (machaira). This does indeed mean pretty much exactly what it appears to. Sphazo is to cause a violent death and refers to cutting (I would assume since they hadn't invented guns yet), and machairi refers to a relatively small cutting instrument used for butchering or war.

Again, we have a person in history who came along after Napoleon Bonaparte, and who is renowned for his evils during war, primarily against the Jewish people. His appearance on the historical stage set into motion World War II, one of the bloodiest eras in modern history. That man was named Adolph Hitler.

Now, let us look at the next rider in verses 5 and 6. This horse was black (melas, indeed black) and held a pair of balances (zugos) in his hand. Now black, according to Hebrew tradition, is the opposite of white, and the opposite of light. It is more than just a color, but is also figuratively the absence of knowledge, the absence of truth, or the absence of righteousness, white being synonymous with the existence of these. Thus the black horse can be seen to infer one or more of these conditions. Zugos, however, is where things really get intriguing. It means a pair of balances, or a yoke like that worn by slaves (not sure why the double meaning; I can only assume the two were similar in form at one time or otherwise connected). So if we take the meaning of yoke, we have a rider on a lack of righteousness, knowledge, or truth who holds a symbol of slavery.

The description goes on to say a voice is crying out information about this rider. It declares a measure (choinix) of wheat for a penny (denarion) or three measures (choinix) of barley for a penny (denarion). Now a choinix was a measure that was a little less than a litre, assumed to be enough for a man of average appetite for one day. A denarion was a monetary unit. From Jesus' parable of the vineyard workers:Source: www.biblegateway.com...

Penny also translates from denarioun in this verse as well. This would seem to indicate that a penny (denarious) for a day's work was considered a fair wage. So what we have is a day's work for a day's food. Barley is cheaper, which one could see as affluence should one have wheat, and poverty if one must eat barley. Yet even the affluence have to work to eat on a daily basis: slavery under capitalism.

And finally, the voice says hurt not the oil (elaion) and the wine (oinos). Elaion is olive oil, which was used for annointing (medicinal) and lamps (energy). I find it ironic that both of these things are right now, in our history, under control of huge corporate interests and both are squeezing the financial life out of the USA. Oinos is not exactly wine; wine is yayin. Oinos is translated as well (combined with the word for mother, mamme) to mean winepress, possibly indicating the creation of wine rather than the wine itself is being referenced here.

- continued -

- continued -
So the rider on this horse is riding on a lack of truth, knowledge, or righteousness, holding a yoke or balance, and a voice is crying out for the continuation of medicines and energy and a continuation of the making of alcohol. I see in this a perfect representation of today in the USA. Besides the references already mentioned to the pharmacy and energy comglomerations, we also have a major push to not interfere with the production of ethanol, which is limiting and raising the price of our food supply (wheat and barley), despite evidence that it does nothing to help energy costs, keeping the people slaves to the economy. In addition, the balances, or scales, are representative of our form of governmental checks and balances. Could the word zugos have a doubly signifant meaning here?

As for Israel and how this also affects them, we are their main allies and the power behind their military technology. We are also the largest Christian nation (in terms of popularity of belief, not in terms of national religion) in the world, and John was a Christian as well as a Jew. We (the USA) are the third horse. It is yet to be seen who exactly the rider is, but I have little doubt it will be one of our Presidents (and possibly George W. Bush himself). We are heading down a pathway where economic devastation will combine with a lack of truth and righteousness to damage (or try to) the Christian faith. This is already evident when one looks at the riots now taking place over the recent Prop 8 vote against churches and overt Christians; despite many calls for an end to violent acts, they are continuing and growing. And this is not only because of the issues surrounding Prop 8; it is raising a deep-seated anger toward the Christian faith from people in general. One can see this very clearly in the various threads and posts on this very forum. I believe this will get worse, and everyone of the Christian faith should be prepared to deal with this coming storm.

Now, who is the fourth horse? In verse 8 we see the fourth and final horse is translated as 'pale' (chloros). This is a mistranslation of chloros. It actually means a pale yellowish or green, and is the same root from which we get chlorophyll, chloroform, and chlorine (the principle element in the two previous examples). Chlorine is also the principle component of the infamous 'mustard gas', due to its being a serious irritant. The color of chloros is traditionally associated with jaundice and gangreen, and therefore by extension with sickness.

The rider's name is 'Death' (thanatos) and is accompanied by 'Hell' (hades). Both terms are related somewhat, with thanatos referring to the pysical death and hades referring to the underworld, considered to be the abode of the wicked dead (this is where we get the dubious concept of hell today). So we have a rider coming into the scene on sickness and disease, whose very name (which in Hebrew custom declared the intent of the person's life and actions) is death, and even after death is an accompanying spiritual torment referred to with hades.

Power (exousia) is not just physical might; it refers to rights, liberty, and the authority of a government. And exousia is given to this rider over one-fourth of the earth (ge). Now, from the context, I believe this time ge would refer to the nations of the earth as a whole, whereas earlier I attributed it to indicate the nation of Israel. The fact that power (exousia) in the form of governmental authority is given to the rider and his accomplise would seem to indicate we are talking about a greater overall area than a single country, as it would be highly unusual and unlikely for someone to have control over a fourth of any country and still be able to carry out what is to come next. If this is true, then only one country can today fit that description: China, home to a quarter of the earth's population.

The purpose of the authority given them is to kill (apokteino) with sword (rhomphaia), hunger (limos), death (thanatos), and with beasts (therion) of the earth (ge). Apokteino is a term used for any method of killing or destruction, including a deprivation of spiritual life, as compared to sphazo which was used with the second rider and refers only to wartime killing, of the physical type only. This is accomplished by using a sword, where rhomphaia is a more specific term than machaira which was used in conjuction with the second horse. Rhomphaia is a large sword, properly a long Thracian javelin designed to be carried across the right shoulder. Simply stated, it is a larger and more terrible sword. Limos refers to hunger from famine or destitution, not to what we tend to think of as simple hunger. Thanatos is the very name of the rider, as mentioned before, and is a horrible fate extending to both physical and spiitual death. I interpret this part of John's vision as being a warning of sorts that actions taken against this enemy are as able to destroy spiritually as they are physically. Hate must be controlled! This emphasizes that the evil that is done by this rider against the jews/Christians is so great that attempts to even fight against it may destroy one in a spiritual sense. In the physical sense, could this be referring to disease that makes the bodies of the dead toxic to others? I get visions of the Black Plague whenever I think about this.

One more thing is listed as being used to kill both physically and spiritually. That would be therion, properly wild or venemous beasts, or by extension, a ferocious man. So we have the following ways this pysical and spiritual killing will be accomplished: by war, greater than those seen in WWII; by famine and economic distress a'la the Great Depression or worse (so great people cannot get food); By stirring up hatred towards others that opposes any organized resistance; By sickness that can possibly make dead bodies deadly in themselves to others (chemical warfare?), and by ferocity from wild animals or ferocious warriors (biological warfare?). All this comes from China, possibly during a time when disease is plaguing them.

That's where I am going to wrap this up for now. I'm tired of typing. Talk amongst yourselves...

TheRedneck


[edit on 19-11-2008 by TheRedneck]

I usually don't go for biblical predictions threads, but this one is very well thought out.

I remember a thread a while back where they OP thought that the Pale Rider had very strong ties to starvation and the color green. He connected this to a scenario in which the "Green" movement took away most of the arible farmland for ethanol production, and so a lof of people starved.

strangely enough i was thinking of Obama after reading the title

but I guess thats just a coincidence after all the talk of him being the antichrist and saviour at the same time...

Why do you say the black horse is referring to Bush? THe black horse to me seems to be referring to Obama (and not just because he is a black man and it is a black horse) other than that, I think this is a very well thought out thread. You did a great job, I will be thinking about this alot.

If we entertain the idea that the horesmen can be organizations rather than individuals, Perhaps the Black horse is tied into Blackwater some how?

Good job Red.

I have always felt that the US would be economically destroyed. This would cause major chaos in the US and we would no doubt be unable to help out Israel. The bible says all nations will turn against Israel. I already see this happening. And if the US is weak, there will be no one to stop other nations from harassing or possibly attacking Israel. You seem to be on to something and I appreciate you contributing what you believe this means.

reply to post by Fett Pinkus


Id like to know what qualifies a to this date unproven senator the title os 'savior"?! i mean the guy hasnt done crap!! this includes the senate...why are we looking at him as the savior? what record does he have to indicate hes SO great?

Beware of false prophets.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Excellent work, Redneck. I've made it through the first post and will start on the second post in a bit. The study of Revelation has always been one of my favorite. You've put a lot of work into this so I am excited about looking into everything.

One thing about the 'oil and the wine' symbolism. Like you pointed out, in the same context it implies it will take an entire days wage just to have enough food. Then it switches over to the oil and the wine not being touched. During John's time, oil and wine were equated with wealth and luxury. So, some prophecy scholars interpret this as meaning a tyrannical system of extreme opposites: Poverty vs. elitist wealth, where the middle class will be abolished.

If the mark is implemented, which I believe it will be, we can see such a scenario playing out without a doubt. With the cashless mark system, the one world government would be able to keep track of every single penny spent or earned. Taxes would obviously be confiscated before the wages ever reached the earner and the government could pretty much take out as much as they wanted with a very high tax rate. This opens the door for all sorts of abuses against the main population (resulting in working just for food) while the government/wealthy (the oil and the wine) sit pretty.

Great job. Star & Flag.

[edit on 11/19/2008 by AshleyD]

Great job on the 2nd post, too. Interesting how you tie it into the U.S. Like you say, prophecy is a personal thing and there are multiple interpretations. We'll definitely see how this all gets fulfilled.

I'm going to go back through the thread and study it some more to make sure I don't miss anything.

HERE is a massive and one of the most thorough, well researched, and easy to understand studies on Revelation I have ever seen. However, HERE is the article portion where he goes into the four horsemen of the apocalypse specifically.

It has some different interpretations than yours above. Not saying you're wrong at all and he is right- only time will tell for sure how this pans out. Hopefully this can just be seen as an exchange of prophetic interpretations between the two of us. I'm not 100% on anything yet and I love your interpretation/predictions as well.

Wow, I just knew I was gonna get flamed on one side for talking about that 'dirty old book' and on the other for being a heretic...

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far!

reply to post by AshleyD
Oh, there are plenty of different interpretations, I know. I have heard some that said the book of Revelation was about what had already happened, and gave some convincing evidence, except the timeline didn't work for me. It also didn't explain judgment day at the end.

That brings me to your mention of the mark. It is only mentioned in one place: Revelation 13:16-18. Chapter 12 appears (to me anyway) to begin a new timeline that may or may not carry through into Chapter 13. So it is difficult to place those two timelines together.

One thing is an obvious precursor, however, and that would be the image of the beast being placed into Jerusalem in Revelation 13:14-15 (as I go back through Revelation to write this I remember coming up with this before, but it might take a little while to dredge back up the supporting evidence; I will do so if someone wants it). I also equate this part of Revelation with the prophesy of Daniel concerning the rough he-goat and the ram. There are some parallels there.

edit to add: I like your explanation of oil and wine being considered luxury items. that would actually compliment what I have stated, as we are experiencing a major move to separate the upper class from the others.

I have always enjoyed prophesy in general and I love trying to understand Revelations. Anyone interested in more of the same on other chapters?

TheRedneck


[edit on 19-11-2008 by TheRedneck]

Those in favor for the Black Horseman carrying the plan forth.

Revelation and all the prophecies are yet unobvious blueprints for any who WILL WILLINGLY do them the only way they specifically can.

Those that will not do not see yet the Plan.

You do not see the phrase after a thought prophecy: "carry it out with your unique touch if you want such-in-such result/reward."

So carry forth the plan and be yet come a rider. How you carry forth a plan is not up to anyone else. It is only how you interpret the plan and only how you can use some of it if not all of it in any way, shape, or form, for bettering you or us.

I tell you secrets, "those in favor" is why you see the word "I" in any prophesy/prophecy. And those who do carrying the plans forth get heavenly and earthly things sent which fulfill how issued without any further will on their part. It is up to you each! If you will do, you receive rewards. So do plenty and do the big plans.

Hi Red.....I think you did an awesome job ....
I am like you ...just now trying to understand Rev. And Daniel etc ..all the hard to understand books lol....


I have always thought that the horses in Zech .....may be the same horses .
Except that the there is a red horse . ...These passages tell where the horses go ......................maybe it will help your study ..maybe not ..thought I would toss it in anyway ...I cant help because I am about as in the dark as most when it comes to understanding Rev ..Some seems to have been past ..some present ..some future ..and it seems to go back and forth (from past to future then back again ) ...at least thats how I read it ..Maybe it is just me lol ..............

Zec 1:8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that [were] in the bottom; and behind him [were there] red horses, speckled, and white.
Zec 6:2 In the first chariot [were] red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
Zec 6:3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.
Zec 6:6 The black horses which [are] therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Oh, there are plenty of different interpretations, I know. I have heard some that said the book of Revelation was about what had already happened, and gave some convincing evidence, except the timeline didn't work for me. It also didn't explain judgment day at the end.

I completely agree. It's interesting to learn about all interpretations but the preterist view makes the least amount of sense, in my humble opinion, for dozens of reasons.

That brings me to your mention of the mark. It is only mentioned in one place: Revelation 13:16-18. Chapter 12 appears (to me anyway) to begin a new timeline that may or may not carry through into Chapter 13. So it is difficult to place those two timelines together.

Totally understandable. The timeline in Revelation seems to bounce around a bit. The reason I connect the two is because I am convinced the rider on the white horse is the Antichrist while the other three horsemen are symbolic of events. But you're right- the mark definitely comes later and not at the beginning of the AC's 'white horse' (false peace) appearance.

One thing is an obvious precursor, however, and that would be the image of the beast being placed into Jerusalem in Revelation 13:14-15 (as I go back through Revelation to write this I remember coming up with this before, but it might take a little while to dredge back up the supporting evidence; I will do so if someone wants it). I also equate this part of Revelation with the prophesy of Daniel concerning the rough he-goat and the ram. There are some parallels there.

Definitely. I sometimes jokingly refer to the book of Daniel as the Old Testament's book of Revelation. So many parallels are to be found.

Anyone interested in more of the same on other chapters?

Sure, throw it out there.

I'm a little tired tonight but I'll throw in my study on the the first rider. I am convinced he is the Anti Christ. Here's why.

"And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

“Horses” = judgments (2 Kgs 6:15-18; Jer 46:9-10; Joel 2:3-11; Nahum
3:1-7; Zech 1:8-11; 6:1-7).

“Crown”: stephanos, the victor’s crown, not a diadem. Christ will wear
a diadema, the crown of a sovereign, reigning monarch (Rev 19:12).

Rider is NOT Christ: this guy keeps bad company. Christ is opening the
seals: He is not inside them. This rider will resemble Christ; i.e. the Antichrist note the term Antichrist in the formal defintion means a substitute Christ.

Plus, this dude is called by the living creatures; hardly fitting for Christ Himself.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
"And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

And I saw? And I behold?

^^It is implying the "I" is become a white horse and he that sat on "him"...

What you see is you always. What you behold is you always. Otherwise, you wouldnt exist. But if you do not accept such then you are yet not implied in the say of "I" (indication for "those in favor").

The plan is unfolded through the "message" of prophecy. The message is to willingly fulfill the blueprints called prophecies how you wish with your signature touch.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Red, I find it interesting the you equate the USA in these revelations and I think with good reason. There is the theory that decendents of one or maybe more of the lost tribes are the very people that inhabit the US now. Thats including any who have come here from the first travelers to set foot here. They where, by destiny, drawn here and are part of the people and prophecy we interpret in Revelations!

Zindo

Ha, who hasn't opened Revelations lately lol!

In the back of my mind, I always wonder if our world would be taking the same course (with the one world currency, gov, ID chip, etc) if the Bible never existed. Are there some sick puppies out there trying to make revelations come true? Ponder that for awhile.

I used to watch Dr. Gene Scott way back in the day (when I had TV) and he went over revelations numerous times. What is weird to me, is if this Bible book was meant to be an "Instruction Manual" for our lives, then why in the hell is it so damn confusing and full of weird stuff, and tons of contradictions and such? Don't get me wrong, I know God. But the book has me baffled. I would love to see the "real" writings, those that did not get cut from the cannon, or hidden because they did not fit the church control goals.

Good thread btw! If Obama gets shot in the head and lives, I'm moving to the deepest of deep forests ;-)

Click here for more information.