Either there is no god and no paranormal... or there are billions of good liars and dreamers

Originally posted by tgambill
BM, you are double speaking like in a philosophy Class. No disrespect intended but this is not right. Jesus brougth us truth. The Bible is Gods holy word and the sword as spoken by Jesus. Jesus was on the cross, and suffered, and became our savior. Truth is what the Bible brings us over 1,600 years, by 44 different authors writing 66 different books. You are giving truth a personality, arms and legs and putting it on the cross. Jesus is the only way to God as the Bible says thoughout. Mary wasn't sacrificed, and therefore didn't become sin and didn't suffer, she does not hear prayers because if she did, the Jesus suffered for nothing. Deception is Satans' way of leading mankind from Jesus the only ticket. The New Age Religion is by his design through mankind, saying that there are many different ways to God.

Jesus was god REALIZED. He realized and understood he was god, he understood it on a level that none of us have experienced. He showed man what they were capable of. Our consciousness, our state of being, is god. It is the state of being that gives us our free will. I'm a programmer, and I had a goal of making AI. It occurred to me that it is nothing but a bunch of code/patterns being run without the observer(our soul, an extension of god). I believe there is a place in the bible that even talks about this, how our souls are the breathe of god. Well if you take a look, that is a big extension, all connected back to source.

The consciousness can not be created, it exists for eternity. It is for that reason that you exist for eternity as well. The only thing that really changes is the level of consciousness. God is pure consciousness, of a level that is well beyond ours, because it includes not only our consciousness, but all consciousness.

Jesus understood this, and he tried to tell people that truth(John 14:20).

So Jesus was someone who had a bigger and higher level of consciousness. And he brings what it takes to give you that higher level of consciousness. As I said before, if you worship him instead of what eating from the gifts he brought, it's like a cat licking the milk bowl instead of the milk.

Are you trying to suggest that Jesus cares more that people worship him than he does caring about if people get an understand the truth? I just find that personally hard to believe, and in his words I never see such.

Your explanation for things you say about Jesus are the qualities of man, who wants to be worshiped and served, not the qualities of god. Are you trying to suggest that man will take better care of their children than god would? Do you want your child to worship you, or do you want them to grow up, gain good understandings of things and lead a good life? etc.

Have you joined a “green” movement to save the earth?

No, but I think all pollution should be illegal. 1 person has no right to pollute and corrupt another persons environment.

Do you know anyone who participates in Yoga, acupunture, or therapeutic massage?

Probably, but not off the top of my head. And if they did - I wouldn't care.

Have you or a friend ever purchased a crystal to wear or dangle from your rearview mirror, or a message rock to keep in your pocket?

lol, no. But when I was a teen, I had a tassle from highschool that hung down. And your point is?

Do you read your horoscope or put any stock in your “sign”?

Not sure about putting stock in it, but sure I read my horoscope and I know both my signs(I have 2).

Ever used a Ouija board?

Joke about having the “Force” in Star Wars?

lol no. You are silly.

Ever seen anyone use a divining rod?

I don't need no divining rod, to show me where the water lies. And I don't need no preacher to show me god, I can see him shining in your eyes.

You just kept going and getting worse. There is literally nothing you can say when you talk like that which will change my mind. You have shown the inability for tolerance in an extreme way.

People like you are the reason people turn away from Jesus. You tell them it's freedom while they bend to your rules and traditions, something Jesus rejected himself in his own time.

You would reject Jesus if he was here talking to you now. He would not fit your perception of what he would do and be, exactly what the Jews rejected him for before. When he doesn't follow or preach your traditions and take to your cause of gaining authority, you reject him.

Matthew 10:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

now luke first 2 verses

1:1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

he is saying he wasnt an eyewitness but the message came to him from one

but isnt luke supposed to be a disciple that was runing around with jesus so would have been an eye witness to teach not been taught by an eye witness

*****First you must understand the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation, over a period of 1,500 or 1,600 years, written by 40 different authors contains 66 different books/letters. The entire Bible is the work of Gods inspiration either by direct communication by God to the main characters in the Old Testament, to the New Testament and inspiration by the Holy Spirit or the actual words of Jesus to his disciples or main authors of the Bible up to the last book written by the Apostle John in the Revelation which was written about 70-94 AD timeframe. The Gnostics afterwards are fake and were written several hundred year after and no question inspired by Satan to deceive. There shoujld be no more versions after the King James written in 1611 as this is the true word of God as the Holy Spirit commanded by Gods divine will had the Bible put together. Follow on Versions are distorted with verses missing, changed with subtle changes that actually changes the truth. Satan is very clever....

The close relation of the gospel to the Acts shows that the two works had a common author. The gospel according to Luke is the most complete account of the life of Jesus surviving from the apostolic age. It was designed to be a full presentation of the career of the Savior from his birth, it was part oof a larger work including Acts. The content of Luke comes from many different sources.

Originally posted by tgambill
*****First you must understand the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation, over a period of 1,500 or 1,600 years, written by 40 different authors contains 66 different books/letters. The entire Bible is the work of Gods inspiration either by direct communication by God to the main characters in the Old Testament, to the New Testament and inspiration by the Holy Spirit or the actual words of Jesus to his disciples or main authors of the Bible up to the last book written by the Apostle John in the Revelation which was written about 70-94 AD timeframe. The Gnostics afterwards are fake and were written several hundred year after and no question inspired by Satan to deceive. There shoujld be no more versions after the King James written in 1611 as this is the true word of God as the Holy Spirit commanded by Gods divine will had the Bible put together. Follow on Versions are distorted with verses missing, changed with subtle changes that actually changes the truth. Satan is very clever....

The close relation of the gospel to the Acts shows that the two works had a common author. The gospel according to Luke is the most complete account of the life of Jesus surviving from the apostolic age. It was designed to be a full presentation of the career of the Savior from his birth, it was part oof a larger work including Acts. The content of Luke comes from many different sources.

I dunno, if I were Satan - I would think it more beneficial if I could take everything and lump it into 1 bit, then I could manipulate that one bit, and anytime something came out to refute it, I would just say - it's not in the book, it's not true. Tell people god is limited, he is external and keep from realizing their own true potential so that they will more easily worship another.

Your entire premise that the only truth that can be gotten is in the bible, and anything that's not in the bible or goes against your perception of the bible is to say that god is limited to a single book every 2000 years as a form of showing people the truth.


[edit on 16-11-2008 by badmedia]

It is limited.....very very limited. Satan has designed through inspiration a buffet of Religions that will appeal to different segments of societies, and cultures.....




reply to post by badmedia

Originally posted by tgambill
It is limited.....very very limited. Satan has designed through inspiration a buffet of Religions that will appeal to different segments of societies, and cultures.....

Where is that in the bible? Where is all the other stuff you mentioned in the bible as well?

Originally posted by tgambill
It seems that we agree that Jesus is the only way.......simple.

Yeah we sure seem to be a minority lately in that belief ....
So many people have created their own belief systems by taking some of the word ..some from some other texts ...some of the world beliefs ..some of this and some of that and created an all new diverse belief system ....(my neighbor is like that ) she created her own mixture of beliefs .....and come up with some weird beliefs ...(Sylvia Brown mixed with some Ancient Mayan Indian stuff mixed with Mother earth ...adding Christ as a little salt to the mixture.)
Like a pot luck dinner with many different dishes ....

reply to post by tgambill


so your agreeing that the author of luke and acts which i agree are authored by the same pen

are not an eyewitness account but a collection what maybe eyewitness accounts, (wether they are or not is unimportant at this point we can argue that later if you really feel the need)

they are both authored by someone who could be called luke, but is not the disciple luke ?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Yeah we sure seem to be a minority lately in that belief ....
So many people have created their own belief systems by taking some of the word ..some from some other texts ...some of the world beliefs ..some of this and some of that and created an all new diverse belief system ....(my neighbor is like that ) she created her own mixture of beliefs .....and come up with some weird beliefs ...(Sylvia Brown mixed with some Ancient Mayan Indian stuff mixed with Mother earth ...adding Christ as a little salt to the mixture.)
Like a pot luck dinner with many different dishes ....

Is it really any different with mainstream Christianity? And what of people like me who didn't get their beliefs from any books/religions, just happen to see truth repeated in the words of Jesus?

The bible says - every man will think he is right. The way I first heard that type of a statement was from a friend, who said - Everyone should have their own vision. Meaning, we all have our own unique way of understanding things. This unique way of understanding things is solely a part of our perception. In all the universe, only 1 person has had the experience and perspective of the universe that you have had. All you know as right and wrong is based off this unique and limited perspective.

Here's the problem I have with people saying the bible is the ONLY word of god, and that Jesus is the ONLY way to understand truth. Because if god knows what our perception is going to be, how is a man to blame for being put in a perception that doesn't include it?

The bible says you can sin against Jesus, but not the holy spirit. Why? What does it mean to sin against the holy spirit? In my opinion, it is to know the truth, but then purposely manipulate and hide it from people and operate on lies instead. What that means is the person must understand the truth, but then goes against it. That truth is universal, the words are only the shadow of the truth, because the words are just there to teach a lesson, and to show you the truth and why.

Once you understand that truth, then you can easily apply it to the world we live in. Then you have wisdom as you understand what exactly is going on. Thus how after my experience, the entire world appeared different to me. Not physically, but in what I understand.

But while that truth can be expressed in words, the words themselves are not the truth. They are merely used to express that truth, just as Jesus expressed and symbolized truth in his life. The words can "ring" true, but the truth is what they are ringing/showing.

To worship the words, or the idol is like I said before, it is like licking the bowl instead of drinking the milk. It is to focus on the words and symbol, rather than taking from the understandings given. Sure, I am thankful for the bowl which held the milk, just as I am thankful for Jesus, or anyone else who expresses these truths. But I will be drinking the milk. I will be trying to understand and apply the truth given. But as the milk is unlimited, we should all work to carry a portion of that milk and share it with others, careful not to drown or force it down their throats(force, becoming evil).

When people carry that milk, they are often killed and the people told the milk is poison or a virus. As a way of trying to stop that spread.

Was Jesus not really the vessel of god, and was the consciousness and understanding inside not actually god? Why do people bow to the vessel and ignore what was behind it? Do we not see this often? Doesn't Jesus warn about this?

Why is it thought that Jesus is to be worshiped? Like he needs millions of people to kiss his rear? He can turn water into wine, but yet he needs people to bow to his feet? Sounds more like something a man wants. Jesus wanted people to understand, he wanted to set them free. If he just wanted people to worship him and his image, he could have just taken the offer of being ruler of the world.

So, how can we blame people who have their own perspectives? Rather than looking at the words and the way they express it, look for the truth in what they express. Instead of being hung up on - is someone paying tribute to the vessel, look to see if they have instead drunk the milk inside the bowl. Rather than worrying about image, worry if the have the understanding right.

When moses came down, he was angry at the people worshiping the bull. The false idol. You can bet the people who had instead embraced the knowledge of the time, rather than the image that symbolized it weren't out there bowing to an idol. This has been manipulated by people talking about the astrology part. Not that the part of the ages is not correct, or the signs and such, but rather that they had embraced the bowl instead of the milk.




[edit on 16-11-2008 by badmedia]

reply to post by calihan123


I don't get how you can not believe in the bible and still believe in paranormal experience. :p
Bible was written almost a 2 millenniums ago. People used to believe in a lot of things back then, believed that the sun moved around the earth, the earth was flat. We have disproved those and hopefully we'll disprove the religious (all religion that believes in god) god.
But the key thing to notice here I think is that as humans we tend to seek control over everything or at least have the need to know that nothing is happening without something causing it. Since we do not have complete knowledge of everything that happens around us, we tend to say that the unexplainable things that happen are paranormal or the workings of god.
Just because we can't explain it doesn't mean its super natural, rather it means we do not have the scientific knowledge to prove it.

And I don't know if its just me, but I feel like YOUR claimed by million, believable paranormal phenomenon exists along the same line of millions believing in the words of the existing holy books. The difference, one we can disprove through simple logic and the other through in depth scientific knowledge.

Many cultures did not believe in a flat world or that other stuff. That is only western culture history.

The problem with science is that it leaves consciousness, choice and free will at the door. It operates only at a level of action and reaction. If it can't be reproduced at will in a lab, then it is considered to be false. The above list is ignored in science completely. If such things are included in a theory, it is considered bunk by the mainstream of science. Because these things in themselves are not bound to the laws of action and reaction.

Psychology which is the study of the mind doesn't even really begin to address these things. Instead, all it really does is look for behavior patterns and diagnoses conditions based on the patterns.

Quantum physics is starting to emerge, which does include consciousness and the above list. And oddly enough, when it does these things, it starts to merge with philosophy and religion. Things such as perspective become part of the science. But look at how many reject it and such, because consistent action/reaction theories can't be built.

What is curious, is that evolution is allowed to have randomness in this. Evolution does not work based on action/reaction. It operates that "random" things just "randomly" happen, and then it's a matter of survival of the fittest. How is Evolution on the science side when the randomness doesn't allow for repeat studies. You can change the DNA and see the results all the time, but it sure doesn't go very deep into the randomness.

Did you know that computers can't actually generate random numbers? Computers are 100% action/reaction based. They can't generate true random numbers. They are actually generated by math formulas which can actually be predicted, because it is a formula. For most purposes, this is fine and suits the need. But realize that they are not actually random numbers.

Here is a site that talks about it. They use atmospheric noise to get a more random number(in that it can't be predicted).

www.random.org...

If everything is a result of the big bang, as science says - then randomness is not involved, past the first part of the big bang. Everything after that point would simply be the reaction of a previous action, randomness does not occur. So why is this suddenly ok in evolution?

Not that I am a strict creationist, nor do I have anything against evolution in general. I think things do evolve over time, I think they do adapt, and I think things which don't adapt will fail. What bugs me about it is that it leaves all consciousness out of the picture, and substitutes it with "randomness" which breaks it's own requirements.

Science works great when dealing with the action/reaction parts of reality. But breaks down fundamentally beyond that. Quantum physics I do believe is the future of science, as it bravely attempts to include these things, and you can bet along with it religious and philosophical understandings will be seen as true.

Anything is possible, but I would seriously doubt a creator the way the bible portrays it.

Perhaps we all created the universe, and perhaps we all make up the whole.

man cannot create or destroy. He only changes what is already created. God is real....and the Bible is the true word and the reality.



reply to post by Scaye

reply to post by tgambill


If you truly believed what you said, you wouldn't try and prove it to someone who didn't ask.

Originally posted by tgambill
man cannot create

nylon

or destroy.

burning nylon

He only changes what is already created.

its fully synthetic

God is real....and the Bible is the true word and the reality.

and he came to earth in 1938 to create nylon as he forgot to in the begining else adam and eve would have put on spandex unitards not fig leaves

[edit on 19/11/08 by noobfun]

NO, that's not true. Its called passing on truth and witnessing because the comment might spark conversation. Reverse psychology doesn't work. When you see a mistake some like to correct them.


reply to post by Scaye

reply to post by tgambill


Truth? Who's truth?

Mistake?

Seems quite absolute. How very dictatorish of you.

nope.....not dictatorial, just citing what 40 different authors many of them eyewitnesses to Jesus and the OT to God's miracles, in 66 different books and 1,600 years.....

antichristian antitheology.

That just about sums it up for what this thread was created to represent.

Why? Because antichristians do not have Jesus in their hearts.

I commend you in your rather obvious observations. I understand exactly why you do not accept God, but to try to say Jesus Christ never existed, and that there isn't anything to prove He existed? There is more than sufficient history that records His existence! You simply disregard the historical records.

You also disregard the historical records revealing the existence of God. Man didn't just invent God. God inspired mankind to record their relationships with God.

You say there isn't any evidence to support the existence of God. When, in fact, you do have billions of evidences. All the people who KNOW there is a God are your evidences.

Instead of coming to God to know Him you have chosen to disregard God; and because of the absence of God in your life, due to your own denial, you choose to BELIEVE that there is no God.

You only have to simply accept there is a God, and then constructively seek Him out. It is simple as that. As long as you deny God, and you use every excuse to not accept God, you are causing yourself to not be able to know God.

There is truly only one way to actually KNOW God, and I do not simply mean to blindly BELIEVE God exists. You must admit there is a God. Then you must ask Jesus to come into your heart to live. When this is done then you will not only blindly believe there is a God, but you will KNOW there is a God, and you will have a personal relationship with God.

Stop denying God! Come to Him, and receive Him into your mind, heart, and soul, and He will become the center of who you are, and the center of everything you think or do. Simple as that.

Are you so paranoid that you actually think you will become deranged or delusional for believing there is a God? I ask because you are saying that those who believe in God are delusional. Do you honestly think believers in God are delusional?

Those who are delusional are they who deny that there is a God. It takes a strong delusion to reject God when He is as real as any of us, and when He is so near.

In any case, there is nothing anyone can say to me to convince me that God does not exist, nor that I'm delusional for KNOWING there is a God! Not only that, but since I KNOW Jesus personally I cannot but only KNOW Jesus exists and that He is God. I KNOW Jesus exists and that He is alive today!

I'm praying for everyone that they will let Jesus live in their hearts. I cannot help but to do this seeing I know the importance of it!

Fret not...there is coming the Day of Jehovah Tsaba or Lord of Hosts. There will be a great shaking of the world that will turn everyone life upside down in less than one hour when happens. Its quoted in scripture. many will seek salvation when that day comes and apparently soon.

reply to post by Toadmund

The only evidence of god comes from the bible which may in fact be inspired by aliens and paranormal activity.

You tend to believe in people who claim to have had contact with paranormal activity (i.e. aliens, ghosts, etc.) but yet you discount the thousands of people throughout the centuries who claim to have had contact with God. Do you think the Saints throughout the past two thousand years were unaware that what they experienced was God, or do you discount all of their eye-witness testimony as bogus and that what they actually saw/heard/felt was actually aliens even though they say it was God. You seem to trust the people who say they have had paranormal experiences with aliens but yet you do not trust the thousands and thousands of people who claim to have had experiences of the Divine. This for you is outlandish...but people who see tall grey beings in their dreams isn't?