Either there is no god and no paranormal... or there are billions of good liars and dreamers

Originally posted by tgambill
"Jesus died on the cross to show you how to be."

*****Where in the Bible does it say that? Jesus died on the cross as sin and to take that sin from us, if we believe that he is our savior. He provided that example but man was cursed becasue of his sin. Jesus lived a sinless life, was sacrificed so we might live if we believe he was the son of God. Jesus didn't fight back. He spread the gospel and said to turn the other cheek and to not fight as God says, "vengence is mine", He calls us to peace.

Sacrificed? He was plain out murdered because he refused to rule over the earth. He didn't say - bless you for sacrificing me, he said - forgive them father for they know not what they do.

Repeatedly in the bible he talks about walking the path. He even says that those who truly believe will walk the path. He says you will know people by their fruits, not their images. Over and over he says this.

He didn't come to this Earth to be a ruler, where are you getting this new Age lie from? He will become the ruler of the world after his second coming and Satan is thrown in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years and then finally after being released to roam again for a short while and then finally in the lake of fire for eternity. Satan will be a world ruler for 7 years in the form of the Anti-christ.

From the fact that he turned it down when Satan offered it to him. If he wanted to just rule over mankind, then why did he not just do it then? If what he did was sinless, why didn't he do it then? Because that was not the way to get into heaven.

To suggest god needed to sacrifice Jesus to forgive people is absurd. It only had to be done to show people the example of how to live. Yet over and over you deny the very things he taught, in return for authority.

******All this is double talk and deceptive. You are leading these people to confusion and essentially lies that will keep them from accepting Jesus as their personal savior. You better change your ways and rethink which master you are really serving.

I'm not leading anyone. If someone follows me, they are fool and it's just a matter of time before someone else comes along and leads them somewhere else. I am showing you understanding so that you can lead yourself.

******Isaiah 64:6 and Ephesians 2, 8, 9. Good works will not get you into Heaven. You are mixing verses as you see fit to exercise double talk and confusion. My guess is that you are a New Ager or Mormon in disguise.

Only serving truth will get you into heaven ultimately. But when you understand that truth, then good things you will do as you will see that path and understanding. You can call me whatever name you want, I can talk about these things to any religion or person of understanding. I know who I am, and I could have already left, I am here by my own choice.

*****WRONG. It is up to God how you move to the dimension of Heaven or Hell. Accept Jesus as Savior or don't and the choice is up to you, but where you end up is up to God depending on your choice.

Tell me, is your soul not divine/god?

" You want to get into a heavenly and peaceful society, you can start by acting like a member of such a society. You want to act with judgment towards others, death, destruction and that is the path you are following."

****Now you are saying to submit.......you are double talking again.

Darkness is easy, thus why temptation is easy. it's walking in the light that is difficult.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light , not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?

You are a child of god. Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.

We were born to make and manifest the glory of god that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

****New age BS..............

Words of Jesus. As you are still stuck in the same authority that murdered Jesus, it probably is new age to you.

The truth...Oprah is the New Age Satanic thinking.........she is wrong. Loving, kindness and being generous does not get you to Heaven. It is a lie to think that there are different ways.

www.youtube.com...

Who cares about Oprah?

Originally posted by SaintlyMic
There are many things wrong with the churches of today. But, why are you speaking against the churches? By doing so you are doing exactly the things you say we should not do. You should be going to these churches, as I have been doing for years, then watching those churches closely. Then revealing to them what they are not doing right.

Most churches will usually turn you away, or they will threaten to call the police. Many churches do not want to hear the truth.
Enough on churches. We should pray FOR them, if we do or say nothing else.

Not even Jesus can change a fool from his ways. I dust my feet off of such people, and look for people who can hear. The people who can hear are the people looking for truth and answers. And the people looking for truth and answers go to places like this. I hope they do get it, and I personally believe the events that are happening these days is to teach and show them the lesson. And when the veil is lifted, they will see the truth.

You said that by what we do we determine where we will go. You are incorrect. It is not by what we do, but rather who we trust.

Are you going to trust yourself, or are you going to trust Jesus. Jesus didn't just talk. Jesus forgave. Jesus healed. Jesus gave. And, Jesus made.

I trust truth. I did not learn what I know from the bible. I took many of hard and honest looks at the world. I have spent years looking into these things, looking all over at different perspectives. I was given understanding of many things. It was not until after I gained this knowledge that for the first time the words of Jesus made since. I was not christian of anykind. But I can read what he is saying and I understand it 100%. He without a doubt in my mind speaks the truth. People instead of taking and following that truth worship the idol and cross, and in the process do not follow that truth. They do things in his name, but in sin(matthew).

As Jesus is truth, then yes I do trust. I do not trust because he is son of god, I trust because he is right and speaks truth. The point is not to just accept authority and be slave to it, the point is to understand. But I don't hold onto the Jesus idol. If god comes back in the form of Jesus, great. If he does, I will know him by his fruits. Until then, I will have to continue on in the only way I can - by following truth.

Many of the things Jesus did we cannot do. Only Jesus can do those things because He is God. We, on the other hand, are NOT God. So, how do you expect us to DO the things Jesus did!? The only things we can do are the things humans, who are not God, are able or capable of doing.

God is inside you and internal, not external. John 14:20. That is what I first realized that lead me here. The error however would be if you believed that only you were god, and nobody else was. It is your consciousness, and when you realize the truth, then on that day you will understand. That is what I first understood.

Jesus says - and even greater things than this will he do. You are capable of that and much much more. People however push people down and tell them they can't, god is external. That way, if you think god/Jesus is external, they can replace it and take the role.

We can forgive. We can be gracious and merciful. We can forget. We can be just in all our ways. We can be true. We can be fair. We can be polite and considerate. And, we can be many other things as well!

BUT! WE CAN DO NOTHING WITHOUT JESUS DOING THOSE THINGS THROUGH US!!! SO, WE HONESTLY CAN DO NOTHING GOD WANTS US TO DO UNLESS HE IS IN US DOING HIS WILL THROUGH US!!!

If your will is to follow truth, then your will is the will of god. As Jesus is truth, then through truth will you find it, and only through truth.

Anything we do ON OUR OWN without God performing His will THROUGH US is not of God, no matter how well you think we are at doing it. It is God working THROUGH us that fulfills His will IN us.

God gave you free will. It is only when you infringe on the will of others that you are sinning.

Not one human will get to heaven on his or her own merit! The only way one will get to heaven is if he or she lets God live in their hearts doing His will using us to do His will. We will not get to heaven by doing what we think is good behavior. We will only get to heaven by letting God do HIS BEST BEHAVIOR through us.

As mentioned above you have to follow truth. Do unto others as you wish to be done, judge not etc. But when you realize truth, then you will want to do good deeds and you will walk that path.

Not every person will go to the same place, either! Jesus taught of a real place called hell. Jesus didn't teach that we will have to go through hell on our way to heaven. And Jesus didn't teach that if we misbehave we will go to or go through hell on our way to heaven.

Jesus taught people what they could understand at the time. If he returned today, he would speak in a way that people of this time would best understand. And btw, there are many levels to hell I have read and ways to get out.

Your idea that all roads somehow lead to heaven is misplaced. Many will go to hell to wait out their sentence of being cast into the LAKE OF FIRE where they will experience Eternal Death! Hell is only a thinking place of suffering. And, if while in hell you blame God, or resist God, you can be certain that after that time you will be cast into the Lake Of Fire!!!

Only if the person refuses to ask for forgiveness. How do you really ask for forgiveness? Do you think god wants to hear "Sorry" as you go and do it again? You ask for forgiveness by understanding why what you did was wrong, and then no longer doing it.

Your and my soul is not God nor divine. This is new age and you are a new ager that is lying to these people.

"Sacrificed? He was plain out murdered because he refused to rule over the earth. He didn't say - bless you for sacrificing me, he said - forgive them father for they know not what they do."

*****This among most of your postings are incorrect. He didnt come the first time to rule. He came to take on the sins of the world, die on the cross as God planned and be resurrected so that we all may live if we believe on him. Show me the scriptures and not your commentary. You are making these things up from your head which comes from Satan and not God. Show me your authority and not from you.

"Jesus taught people what they could understand at the time. If he returned today, he would speak in a way that people of this time would best understand. And btw, there are many levels to hell I have read and ways to get out."

******WHOA.........ways to get out?? where is your authority for this lie? once you have died or the Rapture happens there is no turning back. You telling these people that there are ways to get out is THE BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD!!!!! Prove your authority and certainly not from your inspiration but from the Bible which you quote and where Jesus said it and which verse? Or you will be known for your lies. show me your authority from the actual words of Jesus. where?????

Originally posted by tgambill
Your and my soul is not God nor divine. This is new age and you are a new ager that is lying to these people.

"Sacrificed? He was plain out murdered because he refused to rule over the earth. He didn't say - bless you for sacrificing me, he said - forgive them father for they know not what they do."

*****This among most of your postings are incorrect. He didnt come the first time to rule. He came to take on the sins of the world, die on the cross as God planned and be resurrected so that we all may live if we believe on him. Show me the scriptures and not your commentary. You are making these things up from your head which comes from Satan and not God. Show me your authority and not from you.

www.biblegateway.com...

John 14:20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

He says it plain as day right there. John14 explains my experience exactly. On that day, I did know that the father and Jesus were in me, because I connected to them.

Oh, you say the bible is the only authority huh? I think the holy spirit might disagree. Once again, I did not hear the words of Jesus. I heard the words of the fathers, and then I learned through the holy spirit. Then I heard the words of Jesus.

John 14:24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Originally posted by tgambill

"Jesus taught people what they could understand at the time. If he returned today, he would speak in a way that people of this time would best understand. And btw, there are many levels to hell I have read and ways to get out."

******WHOA.........ways to get out?? where is your authority for this lie? once you have died or the Rapture happens there is no turning back. You telling these people that there are ways to get out is THE BIGGEST LIE EVER TOLD!!!!! Prove your authority and certainly not from your inspiration but from the Bible which you quote and where Jesus said it and which verse? Or you will be known for your lies. show me your authority from the actual words of Jesus. where?????

lol, I hope I am not the only one who finds it funny that in a religion that speaks of a personal relationship with god doesn't actually allow for it.

Matthew 7:28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Have a nice day.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by badmedia]

Originally posted by badmedia
Not even Jesus can change a fool from his ways. I dust my feet off of such people, and look for people who can hear. The people who can hear are the people looking for truth and answers. And the people looking for truth and answers go to places like this.

Wrong! Jesus can definitely change the heart of a fool! He changed me!

Wrong! Just searching for the truth does NOT mean you can hear! Jesus must be IN you doing His will THROUGH you for you to be able to hear!

Wrong! Just because someone comes to ATS does not mean they are seeking truth. Jesus is TRUTH, and we must seek HIM, not how to just be simply "good"!

I trust truth. I did not learn what I know from the bible. I took many of hard and honest looks at the world. I have spent years looking into these things, looking all over at different perspectives. I was given understanding of many things. It was not until after I gained this knowledge that for the first time the words of Jesus made since. I was not christian of anykind. But I can read what he is saying and I understand it 100%. He without a doubt in my mind speaks the truth. People instead of taking and following that truth worship the idol and cross, and in the process do not follow that truth.

Wrong! The Bible has nothing but truth, because it all points to Jesus!

Wrong! Everything and everyone else, besides the Bible, have distorted and twisted the truth, so their perspectives should not even be considered!

Wrong! If the words of Jesus were YOUR understanding, then you would not be trying to convince us that other perspectives taught you how and what to trust concerning Jesus Christ!

SO, YOU CONFESS YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN!

And you are trying to convince other non-Christians that you understand Jesus Christ 100%? You are trying to stand on both sides of the fence! This is what is called a LUKEWARM CHRISTIAN! This way of believing is damnable to the Lake Of Fire!

As Jesus is truth, then yes I do trust. I do not trust because he is son of god, I trust because he is right and speaks truth. If god comes back in the form of Jesus, great. If he does, I will know him by his fruits. Until then, I will have to continue on in the only way I can - by following truth.

So you confess that you do NOT believe Jesus is God and that it is NOT HE that will return?!

God is inside you and internal, not external. John 14:20. The error however would be if you believed that only you were god, and nobody else was. It is your consciousness...

Again, you are misleading! NONE OF US ARE GOD! And, only TRUE CHRISTIANS have God inside of them, and HE is Jesus!

And, God IS external as well as internal to TRUE Christians!

Jesus says - and even greater things than this will he do. You are capable of that and much much more. People however push people down and tell them they can't, god is external.

Jesus does HIS WORKS through us! We have no powers of our OWN! It is the power of God working to do HIS will THROUGH us!

God gave you free will. It is only when you infringe on the will of others that you are sinning.

Wrong! It is the Christian duty to INFORM people that what they are willingly doing is sin! That is INFRINGING on another person's will!

As the saying goes...NOT MY WILL LORD, BUT YOUR WILL BE DONE!

Jesus taught people what they could understand at the time. If he returned today, he would speak in a way that people of this time would best understand. And btw, there are many levels to hell I have read and ways to get out.

Wrong! Jesus spoke perfectly clear on the earth 2,000+ years ago, and the words He spoke then are still just as clear today as they were then!

Wrong! Where exactly did you hear that there are MANY LEVELS TO HELL?
Dante'? Dante' was one of those strange church goers you speak against!

And, there is only ONE WAY to escape going to hell...THROUGH JESUS' SACRIFICE ON THE CROSS!

Badmedia, I see that you get your name honest. Bad-media!

As I suspected you are busted for your Blasphemous lies. You cannot provide any references as I asked. Give me the references or be gone with your lies. I can't decide however, whether you are Mormon, New Ager, Scientologist, or Luciferian...which encompasses all four. Either way you are bound to discover those "different levels of Hell' unless you repent and follow Romans 10:9, as a start.

[Show me where the Holy Spirit does not support my assertion that Gods Holy word is anywhere else but the King James Version of the Bible.

You are just throwing out verses and not having a clue what they mean. You are only one with Jesus when you accept him as savior. Read Romans 10:9 for starters. Otherwise he will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you".

You know what you are doing. The punishment for you will be worse as it will be for the clergy that have fallen away from God and leading their people away after they knew the truth. This punishment is for eternity. You are heading down a rocky slope and there is no going back unless you repent and accept Jesus as Lord.

These types of non=believers are only the beginning of the big lie. They will confuse Christians as they are meant to by twisting the words and making them lies. This is in preparation for the anti-christ which will present a false christianity. The church has already fallen away in many icons. Robert Shueller, Billy Graham, Joel Osteen, Copeland, Hagee, Pat Robertson, Braizer, TD Jakes, and many more we have trusted are not turning away from jesus being the savior. Benny Hinn is a big liar.......and fake healer.....its coming just as the Bible said it would.

Originally posted by SaintlyMic
Wrong! Jesus can definitely change the heart of a fool! He changed me!

No, you did it yourself. It was actually Jesus who said that quote.

Wrong! Just searching for the truth does NOT mean you can hear! Jesus must be IN you doing His will THROUGH you for you to be able to hear!

/sigh, seek and your will find, the truth will set you free. Words of Jesus again.

Wrong! Just because someone comes to ATS does not mean they are seeking truth. Jesus is TRUTH, and we must seek HIM, not how to just be simply "good"!

While it is not automatic, many people do come here seeking truth. Doesn't mean everyone is, or that everyone seeking truth is, just that many people are looking for truth and answers.

Wrong! The Bible has nothing but truth, because it all points to Jesus!

John 14 again, Jesus says if you do not hear his words, you hear the words of the father, and the father will send the holy spirit to teach all things to you. Once again I was quoting Jesus.

Wrong! Everything and everyone else, besides the Bible, have distorted and twisted the truth, so their perspectives should not even be considered!

As I stated before, a religion who talks about a personal relationship with god, yet doesn't allow for it. Always about what the scribes say. I shall once again remind you of Matthew 7.

Wrong! If the words of Jesus were YOUR understanding, then you would not be trying to convince us that other perspectives taught you how and what to trust concerning Jesus Christ!

Actually, I am not trying to convince you of anything. Many people read these threads, I do not wish to be anyone's authority, but rather give understanding so they can be their own authority.

SO, YOU CONFESS YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN!

You belong to the religion about Jesus, I belong to the religion of Jesus. Denounce me as they denounced Jesus back then, I do expect it and have been told it would happen.

And you are trying to convince other non-Christians that you understand Jesus Christ 100%? You are trying to stand on both sides of the fence! This is what is called a LUKEWARM CHRISTIAN! This way of believing is damnable to the Lake Of Fire!

Sorry, I do not live in fear. You do not have any judgment over me, and your threats are hollow.

Again, you are misleading! NONE OF US ARE GOD! And, only TRUE CHRISTIANS have God inside of them, and HE is Jesus!

Only "true christians" will understand that god is inside them, the rest do not understand it. Thus why on that day you will know.

And, God IS external as well as internal to TRUE Christians!

God is pure consciousness. The connection to god is internal.

Jesus does HIS WORKS through us! We have no powers of our OWN! It is the power of God working to do HIS will THROUGH us!

If true, then why do you not follow or understand his teachings?

Wrong! It is the Christian duty to INFORM people that what they are willingly doing is sin! That is INFRINGING on another person's will!

No it's not, it's only infringing on the other persons will if you judge and persecute them for those sins.

As the saying goes...NOT MY WILL LORD, BUT YOUR WILL BE DONE!

And when your will is to speak, uphold and take truth as authority, you will be doing gods will.

Wrong! Jesus spoke perfectly clear on the earth 2,000+ years ago, and the words He spoke then are still just as clear today as they were then!

Which is why everyone reads the Hebrew version of it right? But it has been translated for today so that you can understand it.

Wrong! Where exactly did you hear that there are MANY LEVELS TO HELL?
Dante'? Dante' was one of those strange church goers you speak against!

Actually, I learned it when I learned how the universe worked.

And, there is only ONE WAY to escape going to hell...THROUGH JESUS' SACRIFICE ON THE CROSS!

And Jesus would tell you that if you truly believe, you will walk the path. You are in for a sad time when you realize you worship false idols instead of the teachings.

Originally posted by tgambill
Badmedia, I see that you get your name honest. Bad-media!

As I suspected you are busted for your Blasphemous lies. You cannot provide any references as I asked. Give me the references or be gone with your lies. I can't decide however, whether you are Mormon, New Ager, Scientologist, or Luciferian...which encompasses all four. Either way you are bound to discover those "different levels of Hell' unless you repent and follow Romans 10:9, as a start.

What a surprise, you quote Romans. Where Jesus taught people they were the authority, you quote a letter from Paul who established the church and the scribes as the authority instead of the people. A church who wouldn't even allow the regular people to own a bible. A church who killed many in the name of god and Jesus.

I am none of those labels you mention.

Just as Jesus would not follow the doctrines of the scribes of his time, neither will I follow your doctrines and traditions. Your treatment towards me is exactly that of how Jesus was treated when people would try to use the words of Moses against him.

16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues(churches of the day);

18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Originally posted by tgambill
[Show me where the Holy Spirit does not support my assertion that Gods Holy word is anywhere else but the King James Version of the Bible.

How about you show me where Jesus ever mentions a bible. He had nothing but contempt for the scribes.

You are just throwing out verses and not having a clue what they mean. You are only one with Jesus when you accept him as savior. Read Romans 10:9 for starters. Otherwise he will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you".

Again with the church authority. No thanks. I know the church by it's fruits.

You know what you are doing. The punishment for you will be worse as it will be for the clergy that have fallen away from God and leading their people away after they knew the truth. This punishment is for eternity. You are heading down a rocky slope and there is no going back unless you repent and accept Jesus as Lord.

Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, that is what they said to Jesus right before they murdered him.

And btw, why is it you can sin against the name of Jesus and be forgiven, but you can not sin against the holy spirit and be forgiven? Could it be because the image and name of Jesus isn't so important, but rather the teachings and following them?

You mentioned he will say - I know you not. Lets go ahead and examine the rest of that chapter and see how is the wise man, and who is the fool.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Originally posted by badmedia
How about you show me where Jesus ever mentions a bible. He had nothing but contempt for the scribes.

Matthew 1:1-17 uses SCRIPTURE to quote the ancestry and the generations leading up to Christ!

Matthew 1:18-25 uses SCRIPTURE from the Old Testament to prove that what happened concerning Jesus was SCRIBED already!

Here are other SCRIPTURES written by "scribes" and "prophets" that show God uses His SCRIPTURE to explain both history and present events:


ALL THOSE SCRIPTURES IN CHAPTER 4 OF MATTHEW ARE JESUS AND SATAN QUOTING SCRIPTURES WRITTEN BY SCRIBES AND THE PROPHETS!!!

Jesus even began His ministry QUOTING THE BIBLE!

Here is scripture using scripture and it is UNDENIABLY SCRIPTURE!



How can you stand there saying that Jesus NEVER mentioned the Bible?
Not only does the Bible quote the Bible, JESUS QUOTES THE BIBLE!!!
The Bible tells ALL THE TRUTH, and since Jesus is this TRUTH that the Bible points to you MUST ACCEPT THE VALIDITY OF THE BIBLE!!!
Jesus tells us to study the Bible!

I don't know where you get this Idea that the Bible was rejected by Jesus because it was written by scribes which YOU say Jesus hated, but I tell you that you are way off track!!!

And, don't try to tell me that the warnings of "WOLVES" are attributed to you just because we differ with you! You are WRONG, and not because we say so! You are wrong because you are coming against the TRUTH that we must trust in Jesus dying for our sins!

YOU DENY JESUS BEING THE SON OF GOD.

YOU DENY JESUS BEING GOD.

YOU DENY THAT WE MUST TRUST IN JESUS GIVING AWAY HIS LIFE TO DIE FOR OUR SINS!!! JESUS WAS NOT MURDERED! HE GAVE AWAY HIS LIFE!

You deny the very tenets of truth concerning Jesus Christ! And then after we point this out to you you try to condemn us for pointing out your discrepancy!

You try to condemn us by saying we are not doing the will of God!

You try to condemn us by saying that Jesus spoke of those who would kill or condemn you, and you attribute THAT to yourself!

Originally posted by badmedia
And btw, why is it you can sin against the name of Jesus and be forgiven, but you can not sin against the holy spirit and be forgiven? Could it be because the image and name of Jesus isn't so important, but rather the teachings and following them?

First of all, only those who trust in what Jesus said, did, and does today will be forgiven for speaking against Jesus Christ. Only those who accept that Jesus Christ GAVE HIS LIFE FOR THEIR SINS will be forgiven for speaking against Jesus Christ.

This is where speaking BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST is not forgiven. When you reject the blood that Jesus Christ shed for your sins, and call that a lie, and you believe THAT with all your heart in such a way as to completely reject this TRUTH, then you have BLASPHEMED AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST!

Why? Because the HOLY SPIRIT is the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of Christ is CHRIST'S SPIRIT. When you have completely rejected what Christ's Spirit is trying to teach you YOU are Blaspheming the Holy Spirit of Christ!

Many are completely rejecting what Christ's Spirit is trying to teach, and it is THAT that causes a person to be unforgiven! If you continue to come against those who are the Children of Christ you are setting up yourself to fall!

You cannot expect to continue saying in one breath that you are NOT a Christian, and in the same breath that you believe in Christ, and expect a True Christian to receive you.

You cannot expect Jesus to accept you as long as you come against His Children! You cannot expect Jesus to forgive you when you say things like "Jesus is not God's Son" or "Jesus was murdered" or "You must save yourself".

None of those things are right, and none of those things are correct!

Jesus is both God's Son and God Almighty!
Jesus GAVE His life and shed His blood for our sins!
Jesus does the saving, not mankind! Mankind is not expected to save themselves! If that were true then Jesus would have NEVER gave up His life for us!

You have already acknowledged that you are NOT A CHRISTIAN.
You have already acknowledged that you do not believe Jesus is the Son of God.
You have already acknowledged that Jesus Christ is NOT God.
You have already acknowledged that Jesus was murdered.
You have already acknowledged that Jesus did NOT give His life for our sins.
You have already acknowledged that "Christians" do not know Jesus.
You have already acknowledged that one must look at outside sources to be able to understand and know Jesus Christ or Jesus Christ's sayings.

You have come against every single tenet of the Christian faith!
You have come against every Christian in this room to try to justify yourself.
You have come against every Christian by saying that we do not DO what Jesus tells us to do!

How do you know we do not do what Jesus wants us to do?
Just because you bring forth the argument does not mean you are right!

You still do not understand that it is JESUS living inside the Christian that enables the Christian to do what Jesus tells the Christian they should do.
You still do not understand that it is GOD that doeth the works of God IN and THROUGH us!

I pray and I hope you will reconsider your stance that you are right!
Why?
Because you claim that you are SEEKING TRUTH and that you KNOW AND UNDERSTAND TRUTH.

If you are honestly seeking TRUTH you will accept that which IS TRUTH.
You will honestly say within yourself, "Maybe I am trying to save myself. Maybe I am not letting Jesus control my life. Just maybe I don't KNOW Jesus by trying to comply with Jesus' words using my own abilities."

Until you SURRENDER YOURSELF to the will of Jesus Christ you will never correctly understand Jesus' words, much less KNOW JESUS PERSONALLY!

You must let Jesus show you how to let HIM direct and guide your ways.
You cannot do it on your own.
You must let Jesus become the center of your life.
You must let go of that which YOU think is right.

Until you do THAT you are lost!!!

Do you even realize what Jesus did and why it was so special?

Here you quote this:

Matthew 2:5And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

6And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

He refused to act out the prophecy as they wanted. He refused to become a governor and rule the people of Israel. When he refused to take his thrown as ruler of Israel, he was then called a blasphemer and murdered.

Satan offered him the above, he refused it. Why would Satan offer him the opportunity to fulfil that prophecy in the eyes of the jewish people and why would Jesus reject it? This is exactly why Jews today still don't believe in Jesus.

How can you stand there saying that Jesus NEVER mentioned the Bible?
Not only does the Bible quote the Bible, JESUS QUOTES THE BIBLE!!!
The Bible tells ALL THE TRUTH, and since Jesus is this TRUTH that the Bible points to you MUST ACCEPT THE VALIDITY OF THE BIBLE!!!
Jesus tells us to study the Bible!

Easy, because the bible didn't exist at the time. Scriptures existed, but not the bible. The bible wasn't created as such a work until years after his death.

In 1 post you are talking about you have a personal relationship with Jesus, and yet you can't talk about anything that isn't mentioned in a collection of books.

I don't know where you get this Idea that the Bible was rejected by Jesus because it was written by scribes which YOU say Jesus hated, but I tell you that you are way off track!!!

From the quotes I gave you? Are you saying Jesus did not say those things? Are you saying that Jesus did not teach people they were the authority and not the scribes? Are you saying he never had arguments against the leaders and traditions of the time? Are you saying he didn't call them a bunch of hypocrites?

You tell me nothing. I have my own eyes, and I was blessed enough to gain understanding.

And, don't try to tell me that the warnings of "WOLVES" are attributed to you just because we differ with you! You are WRONG, and not because we say so! You are wrong because you are coming against the TRUTH that we must trust in Jesus dying for our sins!

If you trusted in Jesus, then you would know and understand why he was right, and you would follow the path. As he says many times about people doing what he teaches.

YOU DENY JESUS BEING THE SON OF GOD.

No I didn't, I said he is not the only son of god. I said god is in all of us, as is Jesus. The rest is a matter of recognizing him - which you can't do in the external.

YOU DENY JESUS BEING GOD.

I am god and I am arguing with myself. I did not deny Jesus was god, I deny your assertion that you are not god, no matter how much you hide from it.

YOU DENY THAT WE MUST TRUST IN JESUS GIVING AWAY HIS LIFE TO DIE FOR OUR SINS!!! JESUS WAS NOT MURDERED! HE GAVE AWAY HIS LIFE!

Again, no I didn't. He was murdered, he allowed it to happen for a reason. He didn't say bless the people who killed him, he said asked god to forgive them because they didn't realize what they were doing.

You deny the very tenets of truth concerning Jesus Christ! And then after we point this out to you you try to condemn us for pointing out your discrepancy!

I deny the churches authority. What you go by are the words of Paul, who established the church which has done evil all over the world and used men as slaves rather than trying to free them as Jesus did.

You try to condemn us by saying we are not doing the will of God!

You try to condemn us by saying that Jesus spoke of those who would kill or condemn you, and you attribute THAT to yourself!

If your will is to do the will of god, then is it not also your will?

And Jesus was speaking to the disciples. People who would be speaking the truth to the masses.

Over and over you speak of personal relationships with god, you speak of letting Jesus guide you, and all the while you do not give the possibility of it happening unless it meets your guidelines as written in the bible. If Jesus does not follow the bible 100%, then you will reject him. Tell me, if you have a personal relationship with Jesus, what have you been taught that isn't in the bible?

[edit on 21-11-2008 by badmedia]

Originally posted by SaintlyMic
First of all, only those who trust in what Jesus said, did, and does today will be forgiven for speaking against Jesus Christ. Only those who accept that Jesus Christ GAVE HIS LIFE FOR THEIR SINS will be forgiven for speaking against Jesus Christ.

Jesus gave his life for their sins so that they could see the truth. He didn't do it so you and others can go around yelling Jesus at people while you ignore his actual sayings. If god just wanted to forgive people, he could have done it without Jesus. But since god wanted to give people understanding and show them the path, for that reason Jesus had to come, and for that reason Jesus died for your sins.

This is where speaking BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST is not forgiven. When you reject the blood that Jesus Christ shed for your sins, and call that a lie, and you believe THAT with all your heart in such a way as to completely reject this TRUTH, then you have BLASPHEMED AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST!

I said your literal version of what happened is a lie. I did not say Jesus was a lie. In fact, I said Jesus was truth, the opposite of a lie.

Why? Because the HOLY SPIRIT is the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of Christ is CHRIST'S SPIRIT. When you have completely rejected what Christ's Spirit is trying to teach you YOU are Blaspheming the Holy Spirit of Christ!

And yet, I was taught by the holy spirit. And during those lessons the name Jesus was never once mentioned. In fact, no names or such were mentioned. I was shown that I should never focus on the variables, which are merely used to express the truth, as the equation, not the variables are the truth. Those who can not see past the image/variables are those who are blind to the truth.

Many are completely rejecting what Christ's Spirit is trying to teach, and it is THAT that causes a person to be unforgiven! If you continue to come against those who are the Children of Christ you are setting up yourself to fall!

Yes many are. Because of the actions of many so called Christians who worship the false idol rather than the teachings. People who want to war in his name, people who throw stones in his name and so on. You worship the idol and you are blind to the truth he taught.

You cannot expect to continue saying in one breath that you are NOT a Christian, and in the same breath that you believe in Christ, and expect a True Christian to receive you.

I could care less if I am labeled a Christian. I can speak the truth to people of any religion, but I can never force them to understand it. That is something you must do for yourself. You call yourself a true christian, but time and time again you reject what Jesus taught because it doesn't meet your church as authority view. I quote Jesus and you tell me it's a lie. You tell me John 14:20 is a lie. You tell me that Jesus can make a fool change his ways, when Jesus said he couldn't. On and on.

You cannot expect Jesus to accept you as long as you come against His Children! You cannot expect Jesus to forgive you when you say things like "Jesus is not God's Son" or "Jesus was murdered" or "You must save yourself".

As I mentioned many times, I do not have such fears. I was shown the truth, I have felt the connection with god, I have seen the truth. You don't know me and you have no idea how God sees me.

None of those things are right, and none of those things are correct!

Jesus is both God's Son and God Almighty!
Jesus GAVE His life and shed His blood for our sins!
Jesus does the saving, not mankind! Mankind is not expected to save themselves! If that were true then Jesus would have NEVER gave up His life for us!

And Jesus and the father are inside you. Jesus gave his life to show you the path. Jesus saved any and everyone who has ears, understands and follows that path, and if Jesus only wanted to rule over the earth he would have done so when offered. He gave up his life to show you how god would act on earth, and as the example for how man has to act if he ever hopes to live in heaven.

You have already acknowledged that you are NOT A CHRISTIAN.
You have already acknowledged that you do not believe Jesus is the Son of God.
You have already acknowledged that Jesus Christ is NOT God.
You have already acknowledged that Jesus was murdered.
You have already acknowledged that Jesus did NOT give His life for our sins.
You have already acknowledged that "Christians" do not know Jesus.
You have already acknowledged that one must look at outside sources to be able to understand and know Jesus Christ or Jesus Christ's sayings.

You have come against every single tenet of the Christian faith!
You have come against every Christian in this room to try to justify yourself.
You have come against every Christian by saying that we do not DO what Jesus tells us to do!

What were the charges against Jesus again? Oh yeah, those same things. They told him he was not god and that he was blaspheming. You tell me god is not internal, and that I am blaspheming.

How do you know we do not do what Jesus wants us to do?
Just because you bring forth the argument does not mean you are right!

You still do not understand that it is JESUS living inside the Christian that enables the Christian to do what Jesus tells the Christian they should do.
You still do not understand that it is GOD that doeth the works of God IN and THROUGH us!

Because you have yet to have that day mentioned in John 14:20. You fail to see the divinity inside you. John 14 explains what happens when you gain understanding. And I as I told you before, it explains my experience exactly. An experience I had and had no clue even existed in the bible, and was only after the fact that I realized it was in there.

www.biblegateway.com...

I pray and I hope you will reconsider your stance that you are right!
Why?
Because you claim that you are SEEKING TRUTH and that you KNOW AND UNDERSTAND TRUTH.

The only thing you really have problem with is I don't worship the idol of Jesus.

If you are honestly seeking TRUTH you will accept that which IS TRUTH.
You will honestly say within yourself, "Maybe I am trying to save myself. Maybe I am not letting Jesus control my life. Just maybe I don't KNOW Jesus by trying to comply with Jesus' words using my own abilities."

Until you SURRENDER YOURSELF to the will of Jesus Christ you will never correctly understand Jesus' words, much less KNOW JESUS PERSONALLY!

And if you knew Jesus/God personally, you would be able to talk about these things outside the bible as I do. I will never surrender, Jesus taught people that truth was freedom, not slavery. The only one who wants people to surrender and be his slave is Satan.

You must let Jesus show you how to let HIM direct and guide your ways.
You cannot do it on your own.
You must let Jesus become the center of your life.
You must let go of that which YOU think is right.

Until you do THAT you are lost!!!

The truth does direct and guide my ways. Every man will think he is right(bible quote before you call me a liar again), and that is because we each have our own individual perspective. If we thought we were wrong, we would change.

You aren't asking for me to let Jesus direct and show me how, you are asking me to bow down to the body and name God used to give mankind a message, and worship that so that 1 day Satan can come in and fill that role. No thanks, as I said - I already know the truth, I already have a personal relationship with god, and I have none of your dogmas and I can tell you why and how things are what they are.

You keep saying you have a personal relationship, but you don't know anything not in that book.

BM, You are either being mislead or you are lying and using double talk to confuse those that are lukewarm Christians. Let me explain something to you. Satan/Lucifer is a deceiver and liar. He is also clever. One of Satan’s greatest achievements was to convince mankind that he doesn’t exist and that he is a mere representation of evil that is among men, and so forth. The second mask he has presented for others is that he is Satan, evil, ugly, big, a monster that scares children and adults alike and so forth. The followers of Satan known he is evil and therefore wear the black clothes and sacrifice people, animals, sing the demonic heavy metal bands etc….However, for the more sophisticated, powerful and elite he comes to them as Lucifer, an Angel of light and truth, and so forth. His fallen angels come to the elite as beings of light, illuminated, peaceful and benevolent. This is also a lie and is Satan in another form. The Illuminati worship this benevolent character of Satan and to their deaths soon. There is but one God, his only “begotten” son is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God in human form and he took human form as he can, to be able to have a personal relationship with his children, us, and to die on the cross for our sins so that we may live not see truth. We see truth through the Holy Spirit and through the Bible which quotes the words of God in the Old Testament and of Jesus in the New Testament.
Jesus did not give up his life so that they could see truth. I asked you before, where are your verses and not your own commentary or your truth. You are constantly saying the things you think Jesus is saying, then I assume that you are using the Bible that you also discredit as being the word of God. So, where are these words of Jesus that you are using coming from? If you can’t provide references then you are in direct violation of any debating forum. So that I’m not in violation let me provide you with references. Christ is savior of all, 1 Timothy 4:10; Christ made an atonement for all, 1 John 2:2; Christ didn’t give up his life for truth, he paid the price for all in the world; 2 Corinthians 5:19 and 1 Timothy 2: 5,6; 2 Peter 2:1.
Jesus’s blood confirms the new covenant, Hebrews 9:20; DIED FOR OUR SINS, 1 Peter 3:18; Made peace, Collossians 1:20; Hebrews 7:27; 10:12; Revelation 5:9; Hebrews 9:12, 28; and Galatians 3:13. Works not involved, Romans 11:6; and a timetable for his plan, Galatians 4:4. John 3:3.
Now this is only beginning as my fingers were getting tired but I can go on another page.

You said that if God just wanted to forgive people, he could have done it without Jesus????? Where is this gem referenced. You know nothing about the Old Testament and the difference of the New or even the role of Jesus. I can’t decide whether you are Mormon or strictly a new Ager with a little Luciferian wantabee.
“I said your literal version of what happened is a lie. I did not say Jesus was a lie. In fact, I said Jesus was truth, the opposite of a lie.”
*****Strictly double talk and trying to confuse with simply minded sentence reversal.

“And yet, I was taught by the holy spirit. And during those lessons the name Jesus was never once mentioned.”
******The Holy Spirit was not talking to you then. It was Lucifer and he came to you as the deceptive angel in light which is as evil as his character named Satan. Jesus is the Holy Spirit and Jesus is God in human form.


You speak only the truth of the New Age Religion which is from Satan. It is the same form as Nazism and I can compare the New Age Movement tenant by tenant to be Nazism in another name.
We have free will and if we invite Jesus in our heart and accept his free gift of salvation then we are changed. By this a fool will change his ways because only through Jesus can we receive the Holy Spirit. ONLY through Jesus.
So the Holy Spirit doesn’t know Jesus? Read Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; and John 1:32. Romans 1:4 and the SPIRIT REMINDS US of JESUS’s TEACHINGS, John 14:26. In John 14:28 Jesus clearly says “the Father is greater than I”, meaning God is greater because Jesus came to us as human and will come again.

You have no connection with the God of the Bible and he is the one true God. So, you better go back and reflect which god you are in contact with. God sees you as he does all of us in the same way. We are all his children and the only way we can be with him is laid out in Romans 10:9 and repent.



“If Jesus only wanted to rule over the earth he would have done so when offered.”
****Who offered him to rule over the Earth? Satan Offered the riches of the world and to rule but Jesus turned him down, because they were his to give but only temporarily, secondly the barter was that Jesus was to worship Satan.

www.rc.net...

Matthew 4:1-11 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Matthew 4
1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
This temptation is aimed to get Jesus to achieve his mission without the cross.
• The kingdoms of the world belong to the devil Luke 4:6, 1 John 5:19, Jesus did not dispute this, at the seventh trumpe

This temptation is aimed to get Jesus to achieve his mission without the cross.
• The kingdoms of the world belong to the devil Luke 4:6, 1 John 5:19, Jesus did not dispute this, at the seventh trumpet the kingdom of this world will finally belong to God Rev 11:15 also 1 Cor 15:24
• The devil has always wanted worship, Rev 13:4
• This would be idolatry if Jesus worshiped the devil, we are to worship God Rev 22:9
• The devil's offer side steps the suffering of the cross, eventually the whole world will be Christ's, Rev 11:15
• In Rev 13:2 Satan will give the Antichrist his power and his throne and great authority.
• Jesus answers using scripture (Deu 6:13) he answers Satan with the word of God which is the sword of the spirit (Eph 6:17)
• "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'" Note the word "Satan" here means accuser

You do not have the Holy Spirit in you and therefore you are blaspheming and being lead astray. How do I know? You are not using the words of the Holy Spirit as I have shown you.
Talk outside the Bible? What sources are you using outside the Bible? What are they?
“The only one who wants people to surrender and be his slave is Satan.”
*****You say this but at the same time you said that Jesus was offered the kingdoms of the world, and turned it down. Sure did, it was Satan that offered Jesus the world and here you give the reason why later. Another example of double talk and you are busted.

“The truth does direct and guide my ways. Every man will think he is right (bible quote before you call me a liar again), and that is because we each have our own individual perspective.”
*****what Bible Quote again? Exact Bible quote?

“You keep saying you have a personal relationship, but you don't know anything not in that book. “
*****Not only don’t you know what is in the book, you are not even using the Bible except in deceptive ways.


[edit on 21-11-2008 by tgambill]