Either there is no god and no paranormal... or there are billions of good liars and dreamers

Originally posted by badmedia

I doesn't bother me if you don't think I'm a christian. Christians think Jesus died on the cross for their sins and that you just need to believe in him to be "saved". Which I think is stupid, because God could have just forgiven people without sacrificing his son.

so beleiving jesus died for your sins is stupid?

I've shown you multiple times where it says these things, but it doesn't matter to you. The only thing you will accept is the mainstream version of things.

no youve told me your right and that this is how its read becasue your right

you have yet to show any merit to your way of thinking other then saying your right becasue you made it up your self

Just so you know, the only reason I have even kept posting in this thread was due to the U2U's I have gotten from people thanking me for bringing understanding to things.

Even the people you would call Christians have posted and said you didn't make any sense at all. And you still don't stop with this nonsense.

hahahah personality contest? no guess what ive had 2 billion u2u's saying your silly and im sexy and super smart and should be the new james bond form christains muslims the quuen of uganda and santa claus

this would be Appeal to popular opinion and maybe a little Appeal to authority neither of which makes you correct

just shows your argument falls flat without constant insitance its right becasue you know its right

it was already shown that you did it. I'm happy with the exposing I did of your out of context quotes, where you even tried to call foul because I included 2 verses between those you quoted. Say what you want here, I don't care. Anyone who has read this thread knows what you've done.

tell the truth ...

take it in its own context

not add extra magic context making jesus a fairy tale not a factual person in a factual setting

not make a religeon up in my head

lets hope so

repetitoin does not make somthing right, no matter how much you tell me gravity makes things fall up its not gonna happen

same with i told you so becasue im right and i know im right because i am

And I think I'm pretty much going to stop here.

been fun bye bye come back anytime

Getting rather tired of the same old back and forth. Constantly you are attacking me personally and you simply can't debunk anything I've actually said.

you have yet to prove anything you said but hey if you feel persoannaly attacked thats becasue you allow your self to feel that way (with the exceptions of the ad hominims to illustrate what they are)

I've only been posting with you due to the people who have been watching and enjoying it. But as the conversation has turned from you quoting things out of context that I could bring understanding to, to just complete attacks on me personally - I think I have better things to do. Or as the bible says, time to dust my feet off of you.

more of the same im right becasue im right

why did it go from ignoring your fault misreadings, simple i wanted to discover where it came from, your very own made up christianity that isnt

but hey your going bye bye have fun lets do this again soon ehh
[edit on 12-11-2008 by badmedia]

Originally posted by noobfun
so beleiving jesus died for your sins is stupid?

No, believing he died for your sins, and all you have to do is believe in his image/idol and you will instantly be forgiven and go to heaven is stupid. And it's stupid because it fails to see that those who truly believe are the ones who walk the path. Folllowing the path of Jesus is not stupid. Not following the path of Jesus while throwing his image/name around and thinking you are going to heaven for it is.

no youve told me your right and that this is how its read becasue your right

you have yet to show any merit to your way of thinking other then saying your right becasue you made it up your self

Why must we assume that anything worth knowing has already been said? Because someone gets understanding from something that isn't in the mainstream - It has no merit?

And thus why it is dumb to continue this. Because you do not recognize me as having any merit, you show me 0 respect and attack anything I say as being baseless because it hasn't been documented by what you consider to be an authority or credited source. You do not try to see what I am trying to explain, you just attack me personally.

How many different denominations of Christianity are there? And yet - I'm not allowed to have my own understandings? In a religion that talks about a personal relationship with god, I'm not allowed to have that? I'm too stupid to be able to interpret and gain my own understanding? If it wasn't told to me by someone, it's invalid and I just made it up? Yes, I have little time or patience to deal with such ignorance and nonsense.

hahahah personality contest? no guess what ive had 2 billion u2u's saying your silly and im sexy and super smart and should be the new james bond form christains muslims the quuen of uganda and santa claus

this would be Appeal to popular opinion and maybe a little Appeal to authority neither of which makes you correct

just shows your argument falls flat without constant insitance its right becasue you know its right

No, that would be me explaining why I have put up with you this long, and why I am no longer going to keep arguing with you. If you want to talk about what the bible says, I'll be happy to respond. If you are just going to attack me and tell me I'm not allowed to have my own opinion on things, then I got better things to do. Pretty simple.

Originally posted by badmedia
No, believing he died for your sins, and all you have to do is believe in his image/idol and you will instantly be forgiven and go to heaven is stupid.

but thats what christianity fundamentally is

so christianity is stupid, its the founding beleif of christianity

Why must we assume that anything worth knowing has already been said? Because someone gets understanding from something that isn't in the mainstream - It has no merit?

no but id expect them to show some supporting eveidence not just call it wrong because you think your right

Because you do not recognize me as having any merit, you show me 0 respect and attack anything I say as being baseless because it hasn't been documented by what you consider to be an authority or credited source.

respect must be earnt and its right becasue i say its right wont earn you any

its baseless as you havnt shown anything other then your opinion which you insist we must accept as right

that and the fact your goobal truth relies on what you call a flase handbook of the false idolitry brigade, which is a locla book of idolitry not a global one

You do not try to see what I am trying to explain, you just attack me personally.

without showing anything other then opinion i have nothing to disporve but your opinion,

its personal becasue all you present is personal

How many different denominations of Christianity are there?

recognised over 3600 but that again doesnt make you right

And yet - I'm not allowed to have my own understandings?

yes you are but your not allowed to insist its somthing it isnt

In a religion that talks about a personal relationship with god, I'm not allowed to have that?

yes you are but your having an understanding with the god of idolatry and then calling all idolatry bad is palin sillyness

I'm too stupid to be able to interpret and gain my own understanding?

your words not mine

yes your allowed but again its not ok to call all christianity stupid because you dont agree with it, well maybe if you pulled some proof out to show why its counter intuative but your just quoting your version and demanding its right on the merit you said it was right

If it wasn't told to me by someone, it's invalid and I just made it up?

if you made it up and didnt have any external evidence to support oit then you made it up

you have still to show it has merit beyond you made it up and beleive its right and everyone else is wrong

Yes, I have little time or patience to deal with such ignorance and nonsense.

but you keep comming back

No, that would be me explaining why I have put up with you this long, and why I am no longer going to keep arguing with you. If you want to talk about what the bible says, I'll be happy to respond.

by insiting only your view counts as the right one which you keep accusing me of ..gues were as bad as each other then

If you are just going to attack me and tell me I'm not allowed to have my own opinion on things, then I got better things to do. Pretty simple.

this whole post is a sympathy play

all you have done is insit that everyone who follows the bible in the context it was written, who pactices christainty in the way it was made shaped moulded take your pick of words here is stupid and you know better

Still attacking me personally. I'm not even sure what you are really even talking about anymore. Exactly what did I say that isn't so?

This all started with you quoting bible quotes out of context. I told you that you took it out of context and provided verses that were before and between your out of context quotes. And I said then - if you include these other related verses, it doesn't mean what you've said it does, it gives other meaning.

If you have any question about if something is really related, just look at the new international version, it groups the stuff up in paragraphs, instead of 1 liners. And you can even go look and you will see the verses I added included in the same sections as the ones you quoted.

And as you couldn't defend your own out of context version, you have started attacking me personally. It's funny, you sit around telling me my opinion isn't even valid because I'm not the normal christian, and all the while you are an atheist.

I'm a fool for arguing with such hypocrisy.

Originally posted by badmedia
Still attacking me personally. I'm not even sure what you are really even talking about anymore. Exactly what did I say that isn't so?

oowww woe is me im bieng persecuted -_-

you added external context the insisted that this was correct without providing any evidence

you then insited yours is the only TRUE way again without supplying anything to substanciate this

This all started with you quoting bible quotes out of context. I told you that you took it out of context and provided verses that were before and between your out of context quotes. And I said then - if you include these other related verses, it doesn't mean what you've said it does, it gives other meaning.

but it didnt it just fleshed out the story a bit

If you have any question about if something is really related, just look at the new international version, it groups the stuff up in paragraphs, instead of 1 liners. And you can even go look and you will see the verses I added included in the same sections as the ones you quoted.

and still dont change the message i presented and many christians beleive that anything newer then the kjv bible is ungodly no wonder they dont agree with you as you said several times earlier

And as you couldn't defend your own out of context version, you have started attacking me personally.

so i didnt add in the extra verses you suggested and posted them?

and when it didnt change the meaning any you added external context to make it fit your agenda of personal belief

It's funny, you sit around telling me my opinion isn't even valid because I'm not the normal christian,

no im telling you your version is no more or less valid then any other

but your adding external meaning to reflect your beleif which is intelectually dishonestand

and then demanding yours is right

all the while you are an atheist.

which has no bearing on my ability to understand the way the bible says things or the way it is taught within christainity

i was a christain almost as long as i have been an athiest

I'm a fool for arguing with such hypocrisy

hahahahah

Did none of that, and I'd like to see you point out where I did. The only external things I have brought into the thread was an explanation of where I got my understandings from. When the discussion was about the bible quotes, I never did anything more than add in the verses that put it in context.

Here's the deal. Go ahead and take the verses I posted in response, the entire thing and show me where the way I have interpreted is wrong and what the correct interpretation is.

Or hey, we can talk about philosophies and such if you want, and debate about them. I doubt you will, but surprise me. I'll even give it a start. You want to attack me for my beliefs, lets see how yours hold up.

You may have been christian before you were atheist, but I was an atheist before I understood what I do know. And that is the basic trouble with atheism. If things are not included in your limited perception, then it is by default non-existent, and anyone who mentions such things must be wrong, or making it up. It's a flawed and ignorant philosophy on life. At least find the decency and intellectual honesty to become agnostic.

Or I guess you can keep making a fool of yourself by attacking me personally. Your choice.

Originally posted by meincrporated
reply to post by calihan123

 

and the whole alien/ ghost thing has really only been around for a few decades. there have not been many conclusions made and it certainly has not been passed down generation to generation like peoples religion has.

just a thought.

Alien and ghost thing have been around since the dawn of mankind, they only used different terms depending on the culture and technology of the time period.

Pillar of fire, flying chariots, whirlwind, huge flying creatures, 'something that look like man', sounds familiar?

Originally posted by badmedia
Did none of that, and I'd like to see you point out where I did. The only external things I have brought into the thread was an explanation of where I got my understandings from.

and gave 2 versions of this, one was phylosophy and logic the other god told you

When the discussion was about the bible quotes, I never did anything more than add in the verses that put it in context.

Here's the deal. Go ahead and take the verses I posted in response, the entire thing and show me where the way I have interpreted is wrong and what the correct interpretation is.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by noobfun
32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[e]
37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

yes the meaning is clear, dont deny jesus or he will deny you, fear not those that can kill you but fear god who can kill you totally. i have come to turn family against family because if you love them more then me is not worthy to be with me

As I've already explained, this is where he is talking to his disciples. To be a disciple means you had to give up all the physical which could be taken from you, so that you would not steer away from the turth.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by noobfun
Matthew 12

46While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.
47Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."[g]
48He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?"
49Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers.
50For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

while jesus is talking to a crowd his mother and brother turn up, and someone tells him 'yo jesus your mom and bro are here' and he says'who are they? my true mother and brother are my followers and those who do the lords work'

so he denies his mother and brother

He defines his mother and brother as those who follow and speak truth. As before, he is saying truth is more important than family. He was speaking to the lawyers of the pharaoh in these verses. He is pretty much showing here that he follows the demands made on the disciples, because he rejects his family over telling truth.

external context added to turn a historical factal account into a parable with another meaning

intelectually dishonest

Or hey, we can talk about philosophies and such if you want, and debate about them. I doubt you will, but surprise me. I'll even give it a start. You want to attack me for my beliefs, lets see how yours hold up.

this whole thing has BEEN a debate about your phylosophy and your assertion yours is the true way

you even deemd christainty stupid for believing what it is all about

You may have been christian before you were atheist, but I was an atheist before I understood what I do know. And that is the basic trouble with atheism. If things are not included in your limited perception, then it is by default non-existent, and anyone who mentions such things must be wrong, or making it up. It's a flawed and ignorant philosophy on life. At least find the decency and intellectual honesty to become agnostic.

athiest/agnostic has nothing to do with honesty or logic the choice between the two is simple will i believe somthing that hasnt been proven

its a question of faith nothing else, dressing it up and trying to make it somthing else wont work becasue ill call you on it like i just did

Or I guess you can keep making a fool of yourself by attacking me personally. Your choice.

this in its self is a personal attack

Look, you are just ridiculous

and another

Maybe you should stick to topics you have a clue about?

Face it, you only want to pigeon hole people into the mainstream view because it is a whole lot easier to point out the evils and wrong doings by those people as a way of promoting your own agenda and beliefs.

guess what this is?

Skipping over your old tired arguments here a bit.

could be considered the same

I'm not the normal christian, and all the while you are an atheist.

and another

the differance im honset enough to admit it and point them out

this is a comparative comment not and ad hominem

i shall place this next to the pile of none strawman strawman you created, your really not good at calling the various appeal/argumnets types are you (this is an ad hominim ^_^)

see

b12 fatty acids are good for memory maybe you should take a few (ad hominim ... ill build you some strawmen later and point those out too)

i dont cry persecution becasue i dont need to try and win emotional validity, my argument stands on its own merits

i also dont try and garner support from other sources

Just so you know, the only reason I have even kept posting in this thread was due to the U2U's I have gotten from people thanking me for bringing understanding to things.

the bible has its own inbuilt context to add external context to the bible is intelectual dishonesty

this is my argument, all you have done so far is demand your external context is right on the basis you believe it, and while doing this you have insulted christains for being silly enough to think jesus died for thier sins as well as stating it doesnt matter if jesus even existed or did the things he is said to, you also insulted athiests becasue we wont beleive on faith alone

i have explored your basis for your religeous beleifs, both of them and pointed out inconsitancies and hypocracy of declaring a religeon wrong then using its holy book to announce yours right

and the hypocracy of claiming global truth but using only regional holy scripture







[edit on 13/11/08 by noobfun]

[edit on 13/11/08 by noobfun]

[edit on 13/11/08 by noobfun]

There is as much evidence for the supernatural as there is for any other-worldly religious notion. None. They are all matters of faith, not fact. Irrational people believe what they want, not what they should.

Originally posted by noobfun
32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[e]
37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

yes the meaning is clear, dont deny jesus or he will deny you, fear not those that can kill you but fear god who can kill you totally. i have come to turn family against family because if you love them more then me is not worthy to be with me

Originally posted by badmedia
As I've already explained, this is where he is talking to his disciples. To be a disciple means you had to give up all the physical which could be taken from you, so that you would not steer away from the turth.

Are you saying that he is not talking to his disciples? Are you saying being a disciple isn't someone who goes around speaking truth? Are you saying there is no difference between a disciple and a follower? Or are you saying that attachment to the physical doesn't compromise men?

As well, are we supposed to forget that Jesus is the truth and the way? If you see that Jesus is symbolizing the truth here, then does it not really mean that if you reject the truth, he will reject you? And how often in society do we see people bend the truth for their own material gain?

Originally posted by noobfun
Matthew 12

46While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.
47Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you."[g]
48He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?"
49Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers.
50For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

while jesus is talking to a crowd his mother and brother turn up, and someone tells him 'yo jesus your mom and bro are here' and he says'who are they? my true mother and brother are my followers and those who do the lords work'

so he denies his mother and brother

Originally posted by badmedia
He defines his mother and brother as those who follow and speak truth. As before, he is saying truth is more important than family. He was speaking to the lawyers of the pharaoh in these verses. He is pretty much showing here that he follows the demands made on the disciples, because he rejects his family over telling truth.

So, his disciples are not those who speak the truth? Is he not saying those who speak the truth are his true brothers and mother? Is he not following the same demands he put on his disciples by putting truth over family? Where is the external context of mine you keep accusing me of?

this whole thing has BEEN a debate about your phylosophy and your assertion yours is the true way

you even deemd christainty stupid for believing what it is all about

Once again, that is what the topic of this thread was about. It was not a prove the bible right or wrong thread. It was a thread talking about how people suddenly change out of no where. Even the author of the thread talked about how someone in her family had such a change right before death. I also shared my experience and how I had some things happen, and how the bible took on new meaning for me, and how it suddenly made sense.

Yes, I think what the mainstream Christians believe is stupid. I think they are wrong when they are homophobic, when they judge gay people and all of those other things. The way they see Jesus makes NO sense at all.

God sent down his only son for a sacrifice, and then if you just believe in the idol, you are forgiven and go to heaven. Yes, that is stupid. Why? Because why in the world does god need to sacrifice his only son to forgive people? In that context it doesn't make any sense at all. He could have just said - believe in this image, and I forgive you. As that explanation makes 0 sense, it is most likely not the truth. It suggest that god is somehow limited, a huge contradiction.

What does make more sense, is that god sent his only son to earth to teach men the path to heaven, how to act and that god was in all of us. And that he had to die on the cross, even when he could have fought back, was to show people that it was better to die and go to heaven, than it was to fight back and become the evil.

This is also said many times throughout the bible. When he talks about how true believers will walk the path and follow the truth. He talks about how important it is to walk that path, even more important than family. He even talks about how people will do things in his name, but they do not know him and they work in sin. Is it really a stretch for me to say that it's the people who worship the idol of Jesus and don't follow the path he gave are those people?

He talks about how it is extremely hard to get into heaven. But yet the mainstream version explanation claims it's very easy, just believe in this idol. Again, when it doesn't make sense in the way they explain it, then it is most likely not true. But that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense in another way.

He was offered to be king of the jews, and ruler of the world. He turned it down. He did not come to rule over the people, he came to set them free and show them the way. Yet, the mainstream church has used his name and image to do exactly the opposite. As a way of ruling over men and leading them to do evils. What the mainstream church has done in his name is exactly what made me reject Jesus and the bible to get with. And what they have done in history, and what they do today is also exactly what turns alot of people, yourself included most likely away from it.

Jesus taught people he was the authority, mainstream Christianity teaches submission to authority. He taught them god was a part of them and internal. The church and such teach god is external. Why? Couldn't possibly be because as long as people keep looking externally, they will keep their heads away from him, and as such, they will just look for any authority to take his place?

Jesus taught that those who believe can do even greater things than he. Mainstream Christianity teaches people only by believing in the idol of Jesus can you be redeemed. And yet, the way I see it is, only by following in the path of Jesus can you be redeemed.

So yes, mainstream Christians are blind. Which btw, is also a requirement for the anti-christ to come and fool all the people. Who do you think is going to be fooled, the people who look at image and symbolism, or the people who understand and follow the path?

And as I said before, it's not just religion. It's everything. Everything that is "good" gets symbolism and idols thrown on them and then things are done completely the opposite of what they are.

Not sure where you live, but on the US dollars. All the people who are on the dollar are actually the exact same people who were against such a thing to being with. Jackson called the bankers a den of vipers. Actually crushed the central bank that formed(due to a failed assassination attempt), and he's on the money that is printed by a central bank. And on and on. Status quo.

Originally posted by badmedia

Are you saying that he is not talking to his disciples?

no

Are you saying being a disciple isn't someone who goes around speaking truth?

no

Are you saying there is no difference between a disciple and a follower?

no

Or are you saying that attachment to the physical doesn't compromise men?

no

what i am saying is jesus said you must turn your back on everything in your life including your family and friends can you be worthy of following jesus as he says, himself numerous times

As well, are we supposed to forget that Jesus is the truth and the way?

only if you feel the need

If you see that Jesus is symbolizing the truth here, then does it not really mean that if you reject the truth, he will reject you?

actually id say he is speaking the truth(or at the very least the christian truth) and if what he says is true then what he says must be true i guess

And how often in society do we see people bend the truth for their own material gain?

lots this has nothing to do with what jesus said, he said one thing they did another this doesnt alter what jesus said

more of the same silly reasoning

So, his disciples are not those who speak the truth?

sorry did i call them liars? i dont recall that

Is he not saying those who speak the truth are his true brothers and mother?

yesthat is exactly what he is saying, he denies his biological mother and brother becasue they are not his followers

Is he not following the same demands he put on his disciples by putting truth over family?

yes he is turning his back on friends and family as he demands of his disciples, which is what i said he said all along

Where is the external context of mine you keep accusing me of?

As I've already explained, this is where he is talking to his disciples. To be a disciple means you had to give up all the physical which could be taken from you, so that you would not steer away from the turth.

you were denying that he said you MUST abandone your family and friends, which is what he said, you changed it to turning away from physical belongings that may be taen so as not to alter the truth

They were disciples, not people who hear the words and follow. It was their job to speak the truth, and if pressure is put onto you with threats of losing the physical, just like the king who calculates their chances of winning or losing, you will settle for peace to keep your possessions. That is what is meant there, and that is what it is talking about

hey look your changing what he said you MUST do to be you might loose them but must stay strong in the face of it

Once again, that is what the topic of this thread was about. It was not a prove the bible right or wrong thread. It was a thread talking about how people suddenly change out of no where.

the thread is about why people are willing to beleive in mythical beardmen but often not in other supernatural things

Yes, I think what the mainstream Christians believe is stupid. I think they are wrong when they are homophobic. when they judge gay people and all of those other things. The way they see Jesus makes NO sense at all.,

no not all christians just some and the bible supports this belief
and your trying to tell an athiest it doesnt make sense?

God sent down his only son for a sacrifice,

this is the fondation of christianity you spent so long arguing you were in the gang

and then if you just believe in the idol, you are forgiven and go to heaven. Yes, that is stupid. Why? Because why in the world does god need to sacrifice his only son to forgive people?

god does lots of stuff he doesnt need to,

In that context it doesn't make any sense at all. He could have just said - believe in this image, and I forgive you. As that explanation makes 0 sense, it is most likely not the truth. It suggest that god is somehow limited, a huge contradiction.

preaching to the choir

What does make more sense, is that god sent his only son to earth to teach men the path to heaven,

wait isnt that christainity? he came he taught he died for our sins

how to act and that god was in all of us. And that he had to die on the cross, even when he could have fought back, was to show people that it was better to die and go to heaven, than it was to fight back and become the evil.

the old testament shows god loves people fighting for thier beliefs in his name, he tells them who to kill a few times

This is also said many times throughout the bible. When he talks about how true believers will walk the path and follow the truth. He talks about how important it is to walk that path, even more important than family. He even talks about how people will do things in his name, but they do not know him and they work in sin.

yes he does and guess what this doesnt make you right either

Is it really a stretch for me to say that it's the people who worship the idol of Jesus and don't follow the path he gave are those people?

well god said jesus was his only son sent to save us, and jesus said the same, calling him an idol makes no differance

He talks about how it is extremely hard to get into heaven. But yet the mainstream version explanation claims it's very easy, just believe in this idol.

gods only son that he said he sent

Again, when it doesn't make sense in the way they explain it, then it is most likely not true. But that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense in another way.

just not the way god jesus or the christianity says

He was offered to be king of the jews, and ruler of the world. He turned it down. He did not come to rule over the people, he came to set them free and show them the way. Yet, the mainstream church has used his name and image to do exactly the opposite. As a way of ruling over men and leading them to do evils.

as well as good not everything the church has done has been bad for humanity at least be a little subjective here

What the mainstream church has done in his name is exactly what made me reject Jesus and the bible to get with.

and yet your still quoting the bible as truth and beleiveing in the same god as jesus and the bible

And what they have done in history, and what they do today is also exactly what turns alot of people, yourself included most likely away from it.

ahh that must be why im an athiest then... but it isnt

Jesus taught people he was the authority, mainstream Christianity teaches submission to authority.

he also tauht that the authority that was there before him should still be followed (judaism that hates gays too)

i skipped commenting on the rest its basically a sermon, you have shown that the church has much to be questioned about its actions and the way it teaches christainity

you still have yet to show your way is better beyond your ability to insult and demean the bits of christainity you dont agree with

the fact you use the bible for your aims but then deny insult and belittle the religeon that gave you said book is hypocritical

you insult and deny the religeon then preach the bits you like

So yes, mainstream Christians are blind. Which btw, is also a requirement for the anti-christ to come and fool all the people

and the central bank has nothing to do with this, its just poor misdirection

showing somthing is wrong does not mean your right, just that it is wrong



[edit on 13/11/08 by noobfun]

You make it hard to reply when you separate things so much, there is a limited amount of characters per reply.

Originally posted by noobfun

As I've already explained, this is where he is talking to his disciples. To be a disciple means you had to give up all the physical which could be taken from you, so that you would not steer away from the turth.

you were denying that he said you MUST abandone your family and friends, which is what he said, you changed it to turning away from physical belongings that may be taen so as not to alter the truth

They were disciples, not people who hear the words and follow. It was their job to speak the truth, and if pressure is put onto you with threats of losing the physical, just like the king who calculates their chances of winning or losing, you will settle for peace to keep your possessions. That is what is meant there, and that is what it is talking about

hey look your changing what he said you MUST do to be you might loose them but must stay strong in the face of it

I never said he didn't say those things, I only explained why he would say those things. And the reasons he said those things were given in the other quote that is similiar, but goes on to talk about the king who settles for peace if he can't win and the builder who can't finish the job.

no not all christians just some and the bible supports this belief
and your trying to tell an athiest it doesnt make sense?

The bible only tells people they shouldn't do it, it doesn't tell them to go around persecuting and judging the people who do. Big difference.

wait isnt that christainity? he came he taught he died for our sins

According to mainstream, what he taught wasn't important, it was just the person himself that was important. This is the point I'm trying to make. They have abandoned the teachings for the image, and in the process the image no longer represents the teachings. And when I start talking about the teachings, that is rejected as being Christianity. If Jesus was walking around the earth today, Christians would reject him. Him telling them not to listen to the church, not to listen to the government, not to go to war with countries, not to judge the gay people. They would go absolutely nuts. Because they do not follow the path/teachings. They just do stuff in his name, and that viewpoint is actively promoted.

the old testament shows god loves people fighting for thier beliefs in his name, he tells them who to kill a few times

I don't follow the old testament as anything more than a history lesson. If the old testament had been right, Jesus wouldn't have needed to come here would he? And the society that followed the old testament, wouldn't have rejected and killed him. Pretty much sums up what I think about the old testament.

yes he does and guess what this doesnt make you right either

The only thing that makes anyone right is when they speak the truth.

well god said jesus was his only son sent to save us, and jesus said the same, calling him an idol makes no differance

Jesus calls many people sons and daughters of god. We are all god. That is what our consciousness is. It's why science actively avoids consciousness in what it does. What made Jesus different, was he realized it and opened the door for others.

just not the way god jesus or the christianity says

Actually, that is what Jesus said, easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than a rich man into heaven.

as well as good not everything the church has done has been bad for humanity at least be a little subjective here

Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

and yet your still quoting the bible as truth and beleiveing in the same god as jesus and the bible

Because I see the truth now, that the mainstream perception and such is wrong, not Jesus or the bible. I equated what the church did and such as being what Jesus was about. If their view of god is correct, then I reject god for having low morals. Of course, I think it silly to suggest god has such low morals.

he also tauht that the authority that was there before him should still be followed (judaism that hates gays too)

Did he? He just said he hadn't come to change it. He would have had to become the authority in order to change it. Which was against the example he was trying to show. He would have had to become their rulers and rule over them, rather than trying to set them free. He generally at odds with the authority, they were constantly arguing with him and their traditions. Called them hypocrites and such. Was murdered by them for not going along with it.

To become the authority would have been to become the evil. That is why Satan offered him the role of authority. Which he turned down.

the fact you use the bible for your aims but then deny insult and belittle the religeon that gave you said book is hypocritical

People who have manipulated the words and people are what has give the religion we have today, not the words and actual meanings contained inside.

and the central bank has nothing to do with this, its just poor misdirection

Jesus was against the money changers. The central bank/fed are the money changers of today. Who rob the people of their wealth and commit people to economic slavery. The central bank has everything to do with this. They put "In god we trust" on the dollars, when Jesus himself was against any such practices. They loan out this money at interest. Interest money which is never created and creates a system where there is never really enough money for everyone, which in turn makes people do things they wouldn't normally do in order to get it and make it.

I'm not the biggest fan of this guy, for other reasons. But he is 100% dead on about this topic.

video.google.com...

Originally posted by badmedia

The bible only tells people they shouldn't do it, it doesn't tell them to go around persecuting and judging the people who do. Big difference.

im about to go out so ill get back to the rest of your post later but for now just 2 quick bits

have you read the bible? all of it? most of it? some of it? none of it?

your telling me the bible doesnt condone the killing of adulterers homosexuals unruley children? by gods command

god told moses and co to stone an old man to death for collecting fire wood on the sabath

paul in the testament declares homosexuals should be pout to the sword for god

so if god said it and paul said it ...... and they dont say god will punish them later god says stone them for me

Parsley tells his people they should believe for millions. He makes no apology for being mercenary:

“Parsley is upfront with his congregation about the church’s need for money. ‘I just love to talk about money,’ he told them. ‘I just love to talk about your money. Let me be very clear — I want your money. I deserve it. This church deserves it.’”16

www.pfo.org...

national debt is evil dont give it to the goverment give it to me - great message Rod -_-

i thought you were against idolatry lovers and tithers





[edit on 13/11/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by noobfun
your telling me the bible doesnt condone the killing of adulterers homosexuals unruley children? by gods command

god told moses and co to stone an old man to death for collecting fire wood on the sabath

Old testament

paul in the testament declares homosexuals should be pout to the sword for god

verse? I have never heard a new testament version of it, and it's been mentioned alot because it's always an old testament quote that people use.

i thought you were against idolatry lovers and tithers

As I said, I'm not a fan of his for other reasons, but on that particular clip, he was dead on about the topic. But he is an example of someone who uses symbolism and such for his own purposes. No doubt about that. It is just easier and quicker to give you the clip than it is to type it all out and go into about Jesus and the moneychangers.

Originally posted by calihan123
so my question is this. why is it so easy for everyone to believe the insane stories of the bible, these larger than life stories that in modern day would never ever seem to happen....


yet not many people believe in ghosts?

not many people believe in aliens?

not many people believe in other creatures such as bigfoot and chupacabra?

If we can believe the outrageous claims made in the bible, but we cant even believe a little ghost story...


what kind of hypocrites does that make us?
[edit on 6-11-2008 by calihan123]

This is a great question! I can only surmise that if we had been indoctrinated with idea of ghosts, aliens and bigfoot since emerging from the womb, we would be a planet of believers in those too.

There are many people who believe in all of it. I haven't met anyone yet who is 100% skeptical across-the-board and that is because many have had a personal experience of some sort.

That's the bottom line, isn't it? Faith and trust versus actual experience. Once you have had an experience yourself, it is nearly impossible to be talked out of it. Those who operate on pure faith and trust are able to do so because they have others backing them up and agreeing with them.

I don't know that is it all hypocrisy as indoctrination since childhood is a powerful weapon in the hands of anyone. Religions aren't all alone in this.

The stories in the Bible are true. God is real, Jesus Christ is real. Satan is real. There is the supernatural and this is the reality. We are in a finite world while in this physical existence. The reality is the supernatural as we cannot view the supernatural in our present state of existence.

The Bible was written by eyewitnesses, over a period of 1500 to 1600 years, 66 different books, by 40 different authors who were either eyewitness to the miracles of God in the Old Testament, or received divine Inspiration from God and Eyewitnesses to the life of Jesus and also inspired by the Holy Spirit to write. The translations and construction of the Bible was carefully completed by scribes through prayer, inspiration and direction from the Holy spirit after the Dark Ages.......This is the short of it.

Jesus will be coming back and this world will see the supernatural manifest itself in due time. According to the signs, that time is here......




reply to post by calihan123

We are not gods in the making. This is Mormons dogma or the weird Scientology hoodoo. Sons of God in the Old testament were angelic beings given human form and they mated with daughters of man and created Nephilm. They are the forerunners of the present day Illuminati, aligned with evil and Satanic rituals. The Nephilim are the aliens that people think are "Alien" from another planet. They are demonic in nature and inter-dimensional. They will in fact be defeated and put into the lake of fire when the time comes and they know it.



reply to post by badmedia

Jesus called us sons and daughters of God because if we believe in him we are forgiven of our sins but only if we take Jesus who did take the punishment for our sins as our personal savior. that is the difference.




reply to post by badmedia

Originally posted by tgambill
Jesus called us sons and daughters of God because if we believe in him we are forgiven of our sins but only if we take Jesus who did take the punishment for our sins as our personal savior. that is the difference.

still want to be classed as a christian bad?

he may be as crazy and entertaining as a bucket of frogs but he is a christian ... of sorts

[edit on 13/11/08 by noobfun]

reply to post by tgambill


shall we mirror the other topic we ask for proof you say its magical and only for your eyes and we should find it out our selves then you deny every source that disputes your crazy?