NEW: WTC7 and North Tower Collapse Video

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by grey580 . . .
Normally a building would have the steel girders encased in concrete. like a skeleton. inside the building. the trade center towers had their steel girders on the outside. like the exoskeleton of a bug. . . .

I guess you must be new to the WTC discussion, otherwise you would know that, in the cases of WTC 1 and 2, the central columns were the supports of the building, and the outside structure was to give the towers the right degree of rigidity/flexibility.

uhhhh...
here is a floor plan for the wtc


I looked at the plans for the building online. That's not what the plans show.
the floors are anchored to the outer steel and to the core.
what you describe would need support columns to keep the floors from buckling on the outer edges. there are no support columns in the wtc. just the core and the outer steel.
look at the plans. you will see that what you describe is not the case.

let me add this also



[edit on 4-11-2008 by grey580]

Originally posted by tezzajw

Yeah, I agree. I guess when you're secluded on a quarter acre of luxury, you've got time to search around for some interesting finds.

1/4 acre.. give of take a few square ft. I do suck at Math.

I have one of the biggest swimming pools in the world about 100 yards or so from my front door, and watch beautiful sunsets from my deck in my back yard. (autumn sunsets are the best) u2u me your e-mail address, I will be more than happy to send you some amazing pictures You can see how secluded I am.

Luxury? Not really... Bush is getting the boot, with Obama getting voted in tonight... the NWO will be making cut-backs come this January.

I'm glad the video's were useful in your research!

Originally posted by grey580
However my best friend does have a engineering company and we've gone over the plans with the engineers that work there and they all pretty much agree on what happened.

Two Questions. Where did you obtain the plans? And can I get to see them?

If you say the architectural plans online, ask your friend how he/she performed a structural analysis with architectural drawings, no specs and no structural drawings. Thanks.

[edit on 11/4/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by nikiano
Thanks, excellent videos.

If you watch closely at the very beginning of the WTC7 collapse video, you can see an entire vertical row of windows being blown out at the exact same time...(at the corner closest to the camera)....and you can see smoke or dust coming out of that row of windows just a second after they were blown, too. I'm not a demolitions expert, by any means, but to me, that is just one more piece of evidence that the collapse was due to an inner explosion/demolition job, and not from fire/debris collapsing down on it, as the official government story goes.

Now Understand the Physics, If I out you in a device that keeps you vertical and then push down slowly with a force greater then your own, with no were to go, Your entrails would burst out, along with your eyes, tongue, bones, everything.

Same goes for windows, the roof caves, placing extreme pressure on the windows and YES!!! At the same time, POP!!! it is all in the way the roof creates the pressure, The Government may have been able to prevent 9/11 but they had nothing NOTHING to do with it, And this is Coming from someone who doesn't trust the Gov't!!

Let the memory of the tragic Be always remember without some *SNIP* automatically assuming it's a conspiracy!!


Courtesy Is Mandatory: Read this link

Mod edit: Fixed quotes.



[edit on 11/4/2008 by Hal9000]

[edit on 11/4/2008 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by talisman
reply to post by Griff

 

Thats it! In the actual film you can clearly see its a flash. Also, keep looking at the smoke, there is another larger flash and a few more fast ones.


Also compare it to the Aladdin Demolition here
uk.youtube.com...

You can clearly see the same types of flashes.

YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME!!!

Flashes= Electricity, Glare, And who knows Maybe some industrial explosive cleaning supplies, birds, dogs, cats, YEAH!!!!

WTC7 Was not Friggin demolished!!!!

mobhitmusic...

Wrong...

Since when does every floor of a building in NYC store highly explosive cleaning supplies, whatever that means,on the window sills, causing the explosions visible??Quite frankly, thats laughable..

Likewise with your electricity = flashes hypothesis..since when are windows framed with electrical cabling, on every floor....again, if the subject matter wasnt soooo serious, what you type is laughable....

Also, your "pressure from above" argument does not stack up because if that were the case the exploding windows would begin on the top floor and then work downwards...
How do you account for the fact that the first explosions are seen in the middle to lower half of the building first??

Are you perhaps joking??
Either that or you havent watched the video...


Then, in conclusion you type "Let the memory of the tragic Be always remember without some IDIOTS automatically assuming it's a conspiracy!!"

Surely the deceased, as well as the broken, shattered families left behind deserve the truth to come out..regardless of whether you see it as a "conspiracy" or not??

*SNIP* Insult removed ...respectfully of course...


Courtesy Is Mandatory: Read this link

[edit on 11/4/2008 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by Griff
Two Questions. Where did you obtain the plans? And can I get to see them?

If you say the architectural plans online, ask your friend how he/she performed a structural analysis with architectural drawings, no specs and no structural drawings. Thanks.

[edit on 11/4/2008 by Griff]

First answer. Here are some plans on this website.
razor.occams.info...
however if you don't have autocad they won't be able to see them.

also here some more plans 911research.wtc7.net...



In addition my friend did order plans from the city of new york. he says the plans are public domain. they are on microfilm and that ordering them will cost you a fee.

Second answer.

...just by looking at the Archetcural plans you can see where tie beams and supports are siturated (because electrical, plumbing and HVAC needs to work arround them) a good set of Archectural plans always show the structural coloms and where they intresect.

some other links he said to take a look at
en.wikipedia.org...
from the wiki page.

The towers were designed as framed tube structures, which provided tenants with open floor plans, uninterrupted by columns or walls. This was accomplished using numerous closely-spaced perimeter columns to provide much of the strength to the structure, along with gravity load shared with the core columns.

I hope that answers a few questions.

Originally posted by mobhitmusic
Now Understand the Physics, If I out you in a device that keeps you vertical and then push down slowly with a force greater then your own,

First, where is this "added" force?

with no were to go, Your entrails would burst out, along with your eyes, tongue, bones, everything.

Again, where is this "extra' force? The hand of Allah?

Same goes for windows, the roof caves, placing extreme pressure on the windows and YES!!! At the same time, POP!!! it is all in the way the roof creates the pressure, The Government may have been able to prevent 9/11 but they had nothing NOTHING to do with it, And this is Coming from someone who doesn't trust the Gov't!!

So, you're telling me that Seymour is wrong when he states that all the "crazies" are a part of "troof" movement?

Thanks for reiterating my point.

Edit: That kind of came out wrong. I didn't mean to say anything bad about you or indirectly call you a "crazy".

[edit on 11/4/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by mobhitmusic
Flashes= Electricity, Glare, And who knows Maybe some industrial explosive cleaning supplies, birds, dogs, cats, YEAH!!!!

You did have a point until you went off the deep end my friend.

WTC7 Was not Friggin demolished!!!!

Sorry, but yes it was on 9/11. Unless you think that the original WTC 7 built in 1987 is still standing to this day?

Originally posted by grey580
First answer. Here are some plans on this website.
razor.occams.info...
however if you don't have autocad they won't be able to see them.

I have Architecture AutoCAD 2008. So, yes, unless these .dwg files are corrupt, I can view them. Are they DWG files? If so, who created them, and what resources did they use? As AutoCAD wasn't even invented yet when the buildings where designed. Or do you mean SAP2000 files? I question because I am hesitant to download any file.

BTW, have you caught on yet that I can tell if someone is pulling this out their rectal orrafice?

also here some more plans 911research.wtc7.net...

Again, architectural, nothing structural. Do you know that Structural Drawings actually have the moments shown? Do you or your friend know what a moment is? As far as I know, your friend could have an electrical engineering company and you're pulling it off as a "structural engineering" company. Give me some background please. And where do consruction specifications come into play?

In addition my friend did order plans from the city of new york. he says the plans are public domain. they are on microfilm and that ordering them will cost you a fee.

This is BS and I'm calling you out on it. Your friend is full of it. Sorry. NIST even admits that they didn't have them (structural documentation). How can your friend have them when NIST was paid millions and had the ability to demand them?

Second answer.

...just by looking at the Archetcural plans you can see where tie beams and supports are siturated (because electrical, plumbing and HVAC needs to work arround them) a good set of Archectural plans always show the structural coloms and where they intresect.

I'm about to loose it because in all the 13 years of my experience, I have never heard of a "tie beam" being used as a simple support. Unless they mean that since a composite structural slab is (actually isn't) considered a truss, they are posting verbage that just looks sophisticated.

You'd really have to get some eccentricity to be able to call that composite structural slab, "tie beams" IMO. If I'm wong, please educate me as I'm all ears. I don't profess to know everything.

some other links he said to take a look at
en.wikipedia.org...
from the wiki page.

So, I should take a look at secondary knowledge from NIST when I should be able to view the actual documents myself?

The towers were designed as framed tube structures, which provided tenants with open floor plans, uninterrupted by columns or walls. This was accomplished using numerous closely-spaced perimeter columns to provide much of the strength to the structure, along with gravity load shared with the core columns.

This tells me what exactly?

I hope that answers a few questions.

Actually, no it doesn't. But, like I have said since I joined this site, I could be wrong. And to each his own. So, if I have come across as nasty, I don't mean to be. Please take it as such and I look forward to any and all further discussions we can have on the subject.

reply to post by Griff


I'm going to partially answer this because it's getting late here on the east coast and we both have to wake up early.

Again, architectural, nothing structural. Do you know that Structural Drawings actually have the moments shown? Do you or your friend know what a moment is? As far as I know, your friend could have an electrical engineering company and you're pulling it off as a "structural engineering" company. Give me some background please. And where do consruction specifications come into play?

I asked and he does know what moments are.
His company is down here in miami florida. He says he does electrical, plumbing and structural among other things.
I will have him look at your post tomorrow so that he can give more of an answer.

This is BS and I'm calling you out on it. Your friend is full of it. Sorry. NIST even admits that they didn't have them (structural documentation). How can your friend have them when NIST was paid millions and had the ability to demand them?

To be honest I don't know. I can only go with what he told me. I don't know if he had structural or architectural.
Personally I've gone down to city of miami bldg dept and gotten plans for my home that was built in the 50's. It was stored on microfiche and I paid something like 10 dollars for a copy. But honestly I'm not an architect or engineer. So I wouldn't know the difference. I'm an IT guy myself.
I don't know how the city of new york does things. But I imagine that they have to keep everything on microfiche. Probably by law. I don't see how they wouldn't have plans. the port authority, city, architects and steel fabricators would have plans somewhere.

This tells me what exactly?

the perimeter columns shared the load along with the central column. you can see in the video the outer columns fail and the whole building comming down.

In any case it's getting late and I'm gonna hit hit the sack. we'll continue tomorrow.

Originally posted by grey580
I will have him look at your post tomorrow so that he can give more of an answer.

Cool. I'd rather have a second opinion of my thoughts than be incorrect. Let me know what he says please.

Probably by law. I don't see how they wouldn't have plans. the port authority, city, architects and steel fabricators would have plans somewhere.

This is actually what I've been saying for years. Again, I didn't mean to sound like a dick.

the perimeter columns shared the load along with the central column. you can see in the video the outer columns fail and the whole building comming down.

You seem like an open enough person to ask this question to. Would it be any different if the core was severed first?

What's more likely? The perimeter failed (40% of the gravity load) and pulled the core down with it. Or the core failed (60% of the gravity load) and pulled the perimeter with it?

In any case it's getting late and I'm gonna hit hit the sack. we'll continue tomorrow.

Have a good night. And welcome to ATS BTW.

wow that new video was awesome, definitely a controlled demolition! Definitely had to be thermite, RDX and mini nukes in the towers. 100,000 tons of steel literally vaporised! That shot of the core has to be one of the best yet, I bet there are thousands more videos that are restricted from the public too.

my buddy got back to me with a few more links.
he doesn't have too much time to respond to me today. he's out in meetings with clients today.


www.civil.usyd.edu.au...
check out the pictures of the 3rd page of this pdf. you can see how the floors are anchored to the outer walls. IMO it's pretty plain to see that if the outer walls buckle the floors will collapse. the buildings were designed well enough to stand for a while before collapsing.

he showed me this link also with some more plans.
911research.wtc7.net...

and on the question of the center core. to be honest i don't know. the building may or may not have fallen. but i'll be that the building would of been comdemmed by the city and would of have to have been demolished at a later date.
i'm still a bit amazed by the third page of that pdf. the floor sections are just held by 3 connecters to the outer walls. i still can't believe that's all that held the building together.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by grey580]

reply to post by SPreston


I like that picture of the "no kink" claim. Especially when you can see the roof line a little off right in that area. Just enough to knock out the windows in that area. Plus, I would like for you to direct me to a source that says they heard something like a series of demo charges going off in sequence. Like a real demo? One "explosion" hours before =/= demo charges.
Ask the firefighters there or anyone around 7 when it fell. I have yet to see or hear anyone mention anything about series of detonations prior to collapse. Remember detonations are heard and seen first, THEN the building collapses. Not the building starts collapsing THEN the charges go off. That is backward thinking.

reply to post by GenRadek


GenRadek,

Richard Gage of A&E 4 911 Truth seems to have access to the a military grade "Hush-A-Bomb." Clearly the government used this. I'm surprised you didn't know.

posted by GenRadek
I like that picture of the "no kink" claim. Especially when you can see the roof line a little off right in that area. Just enough to knock out the windows in that area. Plus, I would like for you to direct me to a source that says they heard something like a series of demo charges going off in sequence. Like a real demo? One "explosion" hours before =/= demo charges.
Ask the firefighters there or anyone around 7 when it fell. I have yet to see or hear anyone mention anything about series of detonations prior to collapse. Remember detonations are heard and seen first, THEN the building collapses. Not the building starts collapsing THEN the charges go off. That is backward thinking.

It seems we have several videos leaked by an insider. Does this mean the Official Conspiracy Theory is collapsing and self-destructing, despite the frantic efforts of all its defenders and fanatical believers? There was no sound included with this video was there?



That screen capture came from the downloaded higher rez version. The video starts out zoomed in doesn't it? Then it zooms out, so I captured that frame much later. If you bothered to watch the video, then you would already know that, wouldn't you? There are dozens of videos and interviews of firemen describing explosions and rapid fire detonations and demolition flashes. Go find them yourself. It will take just a few seconds of searching.



Here is a shot of something flaring or exploding above the demolition.






[edit on 11/5/08 by SPreston]

Originally posted by benoni
mobhitmusic...

Wrong...

Since when does every floor of a building in NYC store highly explosive cleaning supplies, whatever that means,on the window sills, causing the explosions visible??Quite frankly, thats laughable..

Likewise with your electricity = flashes hypothesis..since when are windows framed with electrical cabling, on every floor....again, if the subject matter wasnt soooo serious, what you type is laughable....

Also, your "pressure from above" argument does not stack up because if that were the case the exploding windows would begin on the top floor and then work downwards...
How do you account for the fact that the first explosions are seen in the middle to lower half of the building first??

Are you perhaps joking??
Either that or you havent watched the video...


Then, in conclusion you type "Let the memory of the tragic Be always remember without some IDIOTS automatically assuming it's a conspiracy!!"

Surely the deceased, as well as the broken, shattered families left behind deserve the truth to come out..regardless of whether you see it as a "conspiracy" or not??

*SNIP* Insult removed ...respectfully of course...

Courtesy Is Mandatory: Read this link

[edit on 11/4/2008 by Hal9000]

Once again welcome to the world of Physics my friend First what you don't see in the Video, is that which you couldn't see The Otherside of the building Physics is a funny thing trust me!!! Gravity does strange things, You will never be able to tell just were the Roof started to cave, you have a one-sided view now I can see were someone could say it was demolished if you could have a complete and clear shot view to see all sides of the building. Pressure from above an object crushing another will created a wind!! the bigger the object the more wind. At times in this case because as you see it is a squared building, and the walls are rather large, the collapse created a "Downdraft" (for lack of better word) and since as said before you cannot actually see the opposite side of the building. If the building (and it may have) started collapse in the middle and rippled out fast enough that the by the time it collapsed on the side of view it appeared the for Pressure from above created the force wind that it created a forced wind wave shattering the windows, creating the illusion of Explosives going off.

As for the cleaning material you ever stop to think that there may have been supply closets on the outter walls, and As for electrical windows, Windows in most modern buildings run along walls, and in modern buildings so do electrical wires also run through walls. So who knows. I don't recall seeing floor plans WTC7 so I don't know Elevator Set-up closets etc...etc..

One Day the Truth will be Revealed Attack by Al Quaeda or U.S.A. I am aiming at the Alien theory After all I like to be a Whacko here and there and since no one claimed it I am Claiming it was aliens from Zet-Re-Ticuli trying to make american Poptarts!!

Sorry had to add that last!!

Mobhit

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by mobhitmusic
Flashes= Electricity, Glare, And who knows Maybe some industrial explosive cleaning supplies, birds, dogs, cats, YEAH!!!!

You did have a point until you went off the deep end my friend.

WTC7 Was not Friggin demolished!!!!

Sorry, but yes it was on 9/11. Unless you think that the original WTC 7 built in 1987 is still standing to this day?

So Sorry Birds Dogs Cats Yeah= Screwy Physics Joke!! (Although Was Proven)

I Realize the building No Longer Stands, but it wasn't demolished it collapsed

Ask the firefighters there or anyone around 7 when it fell. I have yet to see or hear anyone mention anything about series of detonations prior to collapse. Remember detonations are heard and seen first, THEN the building collapses. Not the building starts collapsing THEN the charges go off. That is backward thinking.

Actually know many FF from a neighboring city here in NJ where were
across the street at WFC 3 (Amex Building) fighting the fires caused
when WTC 1 fell on it (and WTC 7). Didn't hear of see any
explosions in WTC 7 before collapse. Was in my firehouse on standby
listening to their radio transmissions from the scene