2001 Obama Redistribution Audio BOGUS (i.e. creative editing)

reply to post by deathhasnosound


Unfortunately there is NOTHING in those links that says a company loses on average $10k when they hire and train someone. This is not a fact or an average taken in a survey.

One of the links was working with a hypothetical model that was based on an employee doing a specific job for a specific salary: $50,000 per year

Another economist on the radio last night, saying what Americans need to hear and giving SOLID evidence that Obama's tax plan is going to HURT the U.S. economy:

1. When the country is headed into a recession, you DO NOT raise corporate taxes. That's economy 101

2. Look at the example of Ireland, per this page (www.taxfoundation.org...)

Prior to 1981, Ireland had one of the highest corporate tax rates at 41%, and their economy was weak, their unemployment rate was high.

Then, in an unprecedented move, they decided to cut corporate taxes to 12.5%. Overnight, their economy began to GROW.

Now, two decades later, their economy is booming.

This change included a corporate tax rate cut to 12.5 percent, far below the rest of Europe, which attracted foreign investment. Nine of ten of the world's top pharmaceutical companies and seven of the top ten software designers currently have operations in Ireland.

In 2001 the Tax Foundation hosted a delegation of congressional tax staff on a European tax conference that included a meeting with officials from Ireland’s Industrial Development Agency, who explained that the corporate tax rate cut had stimulated economic growth and new foreign investment. Read Tax Foundation President Scott Hodge’s description of the trip.

Can't you Obama supporters understand this? Obama's tax plan is a "Robin Hood" type of plan, take from the rich and give to the poor. That's all well and good, but it doesn't work for economics because the rich still control the number of jobs that the poor work. Take from the Rich and they will take jobs back to make up the loss!!! All you have to do is heed the above example of Ireland!

reply to post by IceColdPro

Do you not read or do you just not understand what you read?

the cost of losing an employee is about 38 percent of the departing employee's annual wage.

If you replace or hire a new worker it will cost you 38% of your other employees yearly salary.

So if you have an employee that makes 30k 38% of that would be?????
$11,400

ok you can apologize now.

Phooey to the OP "editing Obamas speech" perspective.

Go ahead and try to make yourselves feel better about supporting a candidate who says nothing but "only the government can save you...I see a new dawn...blah blah horse sh*t". Eat it up with your red face!
And for the posters who can only rehash the "GOP is desparate...": Your showing your own desperation since you seem to ignore that you don't have to choose an alliance of one of two parties....you must have become so accustomed to only hearing about two to forget they don't represent us all.
Take of your liberal democratic hat and put on your listening ears fellow AMERICAN!

Folks trying to put the cat back in the bag are in for a surprise.... no spin OR editing here OP, Obama cant stop whats already come out of his own mouth.
His intent is clear. His associates are deliberate. He is a blatent anti-american who has testified his belief that our constitution has "fundamental flaws". He is an Unapologetic Socialist and YOU JUST DON'T SEE IT. It's sad! THINK...THINK....

Lets not forget Americas founding fathers weren't born Americans but chose to develop a system of government designed to protect itself from individuals within it who may try to shamelessly misconstrue its intent to their own purpose or end.

They had a lifetime of experience behind them of what DIDN'T work and developed a country designed for the individual to take care of themselves without crying to thier "papa" for a handout everytime they get a boo boo and something isn't "FAIR"

REAL Americans don't want the government to step in and take care of them...if you did that for your children at the playground they'd grow up to be BIG SISSIES.

Oh...if any posters need the audio (Unedited, of course) JUST LISTEN to one of his books....
WOW....scary how many people vote on "feel good" emotion without doing the research....





[edit on 09.05.2008 by Anna Kronism]

Originally posted by SectionEight
This stuff just tanked Obama's campaign. I was wondering what it would be. Now the LA Times are holding back a video of a meeting with Obama and a bunch of radicals having lunch and slamming the US hard in the keaster while stuffing their millionare mouths with food. The final nail in the coffin is out there and it's about time.

Keep at it. Obama is going to win and everything that the GOP is throwing says more about the state of the GOP than Obama.

Palin McCain are now claiming that TAX CREDITS are socialist.

Tax Credits ...Giving refund checks to low income families who have not paid income tax.

Govenor Palin recently in New Mexico:
"He claims that he'll cut income taxes for 95 percent of Americans. But the problem is, more than 40 percent of Americans pay no income taxes at all. So, how can you cut income taxes for folks who don't pay them?

It turns out, the question is the key to Barack Obama's plan since you can't reduce taxes on those who pay zero, he wants the government to send them a check that's called a TAX CREDIT. (boos)"

RONALD REAGAN in 1985 speaking about the Earned Income TAX CREDIT which he championed...
"Our plan will also mean an historic correction of a problem we've let go on too long -- the increasing tax burden on low- and fixed-income Americans that's been knocking the bottom rungs off the ladder of opportunity. A compassionate, profamily opportunity SOCIETY SHOULD GIVE A BREAK AS WELL TO THOSE AMERICANS STRUGGLING TO GET BY AND MOVE UP. And that's exactly what we intend to do.

By hiking the earned income TAX CREDIT, indexing it for inflation, and practically doubling the personal exemption, we can make sure that the working families do not suffer under the burden of Federal taxation. Giving a leg up to those struggling to move up is what America is all about. And that's a top priority of our tax proposal"

RONALD REAGAN A SOCIALIST...WHAT NEXT FROM MCCAINS DESPERATE STRATEGISTS?


[edit on 29-10-2008 by maybereal11]

reply to post by deathhasnosound


Firstly, it doesn't cost me that much money to hire a new person including training, if that is what it would cost me to hire a sales guy, I would be bankrupt. The source you are reading is based on corporate figures from large companies it doesn't appear to be based on the average working "Joe", or small businesses, therefore I will withhold my apology because I am still not satisfied. I guess I don't believe EVERYTHING I read.

Originally posted by sos37
Another economist on the radio last night, saying what Americans need to hear and giving SOLID evidence that Obama's tax plan is going to HURT the U.S. economy:

1. When the country is headed into a recession, you DO NOT raise corporate taxes. That's economy 101

An overwhelming number of economists endorse Obama's economic plan. Just simple facts

In fact, Obama was even endorsed by American Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman

But what the heck. He's just a Nobel Peace Prize winning economist. What does he know. I'm sure your radio talk show economist was much more knowledgeable.

reply to post by Anna Kronism


Yeah, who needs the government to "take care of them", we can take care of ourselves... that's right, we can take our own garbage to the land fill sights every week, we can repair the roads ourselves, we can run the transport infrastructure ourselves, and we can completely deregulate the financial markets, Wall street can also "take care of themselves".

Lets not forget Americas founding fathers weren't born Americans but chose to develop a system of government designed to protect itself from individuals within it who may try to shamelessly misconstrue its intent to their own purpose or end.

It's called the constitution, and the republican regime have been hacking away at it with impunity for way too long! We can't risk another republican presidency because I assure you, Mr. Orwell's reality will come to life far sooner than you or I expected.

@Clint

Very good point. Further to this, another flaw in this comparison is that Ireland has a model that is different to the US. Things work a lot differently there when it comes to the countries economics.

Apparently 7 of the top 10 software companies are based in Ireland, out of those 7 companies, which ones are American? After you come to that figure, try to imagine the amount of jobs that could have been based in America? Obama is giving a tax cut to companies/corporations that use home-grown workers rather than ship jobs abroad, therefore they will be able to benefit as well and therefore the unemployment rate will drop.



[edit on 29-10-2008 by IceColdPro]

I'm a little confused. If you guys are so opposed to raising taxes, how do you propose for us to pay for the trillions of debt we have, the war in Iraq, and the bailout bill that was just passed?

I'm just wondering how, realistically, the Democrats and Republicans are going to work together to eliminate this debt without raising the taxes or putting a far greater burden on our children and grandchildren for our greed and excess.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Avenginggecko]

reply to post by Avenginggecko


Simple. If you create a more sustainable economy, regulate the markets so that you can minimise risks with safer investment, become more economically independent and stimulate the economy from the ground up rather than the top down by looking out for the middle class, you will eventually turn that deficit into a surplus.

This won't happen over night, so this is why we need a real forward thinking president to take us there. Unfortunately Mr. McCain probably won't be alive when your grandchildren will be left the burden of his failed economic strategies if he were to become the next president.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by IceColdPro]

reply to post by ZindoDoone


So it's ok to take the word of an availed socialist to make your point. The people that you say excelled in their creative endeavors' have done so off the sweat and tears of us skilled works, whom their bottom line is about more profit, and not the immediate or future needs of the people that got them there in the first place. So I don't get it when time after time these Corporations get tax breaks use there revenue to move over sea's as they have done for the last 6 years and that ok with you. Gee" you need to open your eyes and quit pandering to this concept that your own efforts arent worth more than they are willing to give you. I'm glad my family is not dependent on you and hopfully not the repubs any more.

As I posted on another thread:

The charge of socialist doesn't mean much coming from Sarah Palin when she told journalist Philip Gourevitch just a few weeks before she was nominated that “we’re [Alaska] set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.”

And since she used $50,000 of tax payrer's money to remodel her house.

Hey folks - get a grip on reality - the economy was brought down by those in our government who pander to notion that the "american dream" should be served up on a silver platter to those folks in our society who view home ownership as a "right" and not a "responsibility". The American Dream is available 24/7/365 to those who would get up off their lazy butts and pursue it!!

So here is the real scoop from someone on the front lines in the mortgage industry - send your thanks for our current situation to Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, Harry Reid and Chris Dodd - good going guys!! PS - Last time I checked - these guys were still DEMOCRATS!!

Listen up - if throwing money at a social problem was ever going to solve it that would have happened long ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Social problems can only be solved by people - not money.

Make it a great day!!

- Anonymous

Either "popular" party elected will become only the "current" regime....
The Obama camp is already censoring the content of what they themselves are putting out...the talking heads are being lambasted and their families "looked into" for asking the "WRONG" questions. Private citizens (ie "joe the plumber") was "looked into" for Petes sake! What is THAT all about?

If Obama wins this election with a house and senate majority then elects supreme court judges aligned with his expressed social ideas we'll be living in the most extreme regime this country ever known...

As for the taking care of our roads and infrastructure? A perfect argument for private enterprise vs. government mandate. After all if the the job isn't done right (the first time) it insures a bunch of government jobs, doesn't it? (google Michigan Roads...) And by the way - they're "nice to have but not a "must have": WALK.

The smart money is to figure out how to take care of yourself starting now and don't expect ANY party to do it for you. Don't work 50 miles away...educate your own kids (starting with the American Constitution and (the top 10!) the Bill of Rights...learn to grown your own food or/and use a gun to hunt it so when the trucks of food stop coming to your local market you won't be hungry - you'll be able to defend your family and property from a rioting populace and a government that wants mandate that you share what you've worked for according to law rather than a charitable spirit and the good will of the individual.

Setting up a pretense for "fairness" in distribution of "wealth" OR "ideas" leaves people pathetically wanton and feeling entitled rather than protected under the constitutions' "flaw" to pursue (if they like) life, liberty and happiness in a sovereign nation.

I say grid lock in congress is the best we could hope for at this point as it just may give EVERYONE a chance to catch their breath and settle down.

Give "we the people" a reason to do "the right thing" because the way I see it a hand out to banks, car companies or people is no incentive to do the work to support yourself or assume any responsibility.



[edit on 09.05.2008 by Anna Kronism]

reply to post by stphdys


No, I was talking about all the independent business owners who work for themselves and hire no one else to do the labor. People who work 80-90 hours a week to keep their businesses alive and viable. Who have to jump through government red tape hoops just to stay out of the grasp of our IRS and EPA and every other alphabet soup entity. Those are the ones who end up with the burden of supporting others who don't contribute to these persons labors but are more than willing to let their government tax them 5 differing ways and give it to them. No one in this country should be held up and have the fruits of their love and labor stolen and evenly distributed to others! It takes all incentive to improve yourself and lowers the standards of everyone!


Zindo

[edit on 10/29/2008 by ZindoDoone]

Very discouraging to read how many folks think that simply because you can afford more taxes (in their eyes), you should pay more in taxes. This philosophy is fundamentally unAmerican. It is European. If you want America to be more like Europe Obama's your man. If not, McCain. Most American millionaires are first generation. They did it themselves, in the country we love. How can the answer possibly be to punish those, who happen to employ most of us. Do the flipping math. I'm a small business owner, my employees will suffer when I'm penalized with more taxes. No two ways about it. I've had a long standing committment to pay more than the going rate to keep quality people. This will be hindered if my already stressed profit margin is attacked again. This slippery slope will eventually make being in business not worth it. Then guess who's out of work. Alot of employees my friend.

I've had this discussion with several of my "liberal" friends. They never quite seem to answer my concerns and address the trend that I describe above. They simply return to the talking points about greed, rich people, blah blah blah. How about actually explaining to me where higher taxes get paid from if not the scenario above. Do people think that there's this huge group of ridiculously wealthy people somewhere who are just waiting with piles of money sitting around to tax?

By the way, corporations, yes even big corporations are made up of people. Not some artificial entity we can tax to death. Most people have 401k money in corporations, the very corps they beat up about being greedy. Aren't we all greedy? Why is your money invested for any returns if you're not looking for it to grow. That's greed my friend.

Peace,

Brad

reply to post by Shocka


Those Alaskan dividends where put in place long before Ms Palin took office. It was set up that way so the many first nations in the area could never be left out of any profits that may come from the natural resorces. Its something that should have been done in the lower 49 states but wasn't. The people of Alaska where smart enough to do it this way. It has nothing to do with taking from one to give to another. Thats the differance between socialism and good sound planning!
Zindo

Joe the marina manager: Hey Mr Obama, I heard your campaign raised $150 million for the month of September.

Barack Obama: Yes we are very pround of that. I believe it is a new record for campaign donations.

JMM: Well thats great. However, since John McCain did not do so well we are going to have to take half of that money and give it to his campaign.

BO: WHAT?? YOU CAN'T DO THAT! I WORKED HARD FOR THAT MONEY. ITS MINE. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TAKING MY HARD EARNED MONEY FROM ME!

JMM: So much for sharing the wealth.

(Credit political cartoonist R. Meke)

Originally posted by makaira1985
Joe the marina manager: Hey Mr Obama, I heard your campaign raised $150 million for the month of September.

Barack Obama: Yes we are very pround of that. I believe it is a new record for campaign donations.

JMM: Well thats great. However, since John McCain did not do so well we are going to have to take half of that money and give it to his campaign.

BO: WHAT?? YOU CAN'T DO THAT! I WORKED HARD FOR THAT MONEY. ITS MINE. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TAKING MY HARD EARNED MONEY FROM ME!

JMM: So much for sharing the wealth.

(Credit political cartoonist R. Meke)

Wow. Thank god we have people who really understand Obama's economic policies and get their understanding of the world from political cartoons.