This is for all the `ufo skeptics` must read

We're on one small, insignificant planet, revolving around a relatively small sun, on an 'unfashionable' end of an immense galaxy, which is one of billions of such galaxies - all with their own solar systems and planets. The chances of us being alone in the universe are slim. Or are we so mind numbingly arrogant that we will continue to believe that intelligent life starts and stops here?

Our knowledge, or lack thereof, prohibits us from interstellar travel. Arrogance tell us that if we can't do it, nobody can. Does this mean it's completely impossible? Of course not. It's just impossible for us. This does not equate automatically to "it's impossible for anyone/thing."

A hundred and fifty years ago, travelling at speeds of over 15 MPH were considered deadly! Today our Astronauts (and the equivalents of other nations) travel at astounding speeds. Progress. All it takes is knowledge and an open mind.

Logic and reason would tell us that it's likely that we are not alone. This doesn't mean that we have little aliens popping in for tea every five minutes, but it should lead us to be open to the possibility.

Becoming completely shut down to the possibility of other planets having intelligent life is, to me, simply dumb.

reply to post by InfaRedMan



Into a corner? Not at all! And the only absolute i mentioned was that nothing with any mass has ever and never will match the speed of light. Prove me wrong fox!

reply to post by fleabit


Why do people keep saying! "look what we have learned in 100 years" Am i missing something? Have we only been around on this planet for 100 years then?

Originally posted by mrman81
reply to post by fleabit

 

Why do people keep saying! "look what we have learned in 100 years" Am i missing something? Have we only been around on this planet for 100 years then?

no, if you had said 100 years ago we would be exploring our own solar system and send manned missions into space and build a orbiting space station, and have cars that can travel 150mph and that we will have televison and that we would beable to phone anybody in world at the push of a button instantly etc etc etc etc, they would think you were a crackpot, and proberbly site of their understanding of science and give references to their current theories and how that would make all that impossible.

thats the point of mentioning the last 100 years, it has been the biggest leap in technology during the history of man. and its only getting faster.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by lifeform]

www.newton.dep.anl.gov...

this might be of intrest to you.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by lifeform]

reply to post by Badgered1


glad someone sees it my way too , from how they sound they think they are the smartest person around and have it all figured out

the way i see it , once you start acting like you know everything , then you stop learning and can no longer progress .... do ignorant people multiply like rabbits or something because i swear theres more of them around every day.

reply to post by weneedtoknow


jesus wept if little green men are visiting the planet are they on holiday.if they're around then fair play if they want to holiday on this polluted dump then fine WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT ! if they want to go round frying cows a nd sticking anal probes up people then let them all the info i read points to super psychic beings that are far superior to us and probably think this place is ajoke . Et what was that all about. like a freaky shaped being like that could construct anything he could barely hold a screw driver . instead of fretting about aliens why dont you turn your pc down to low power mode ,stop polluting the planet and get a passtime that does'nt involve you turning into a paranoid depressive

reply to post by da pickles


Do about it? We aren't clever enough to do anything about it.

If, and I'll emphasize the "IF" there are aliens visiting they would indeed have superior knowledge, technology, and likely morals! They've travelled huge distances, and we're unable to even keep track of them.
Again, arrogance and ignorance will always force us to believe that we're the superior species. I doubt that the ETs really notice much difference between us and our primate ancestors - except for more killing each other and pollution.

Having read this thread as a skeptic, I remain unconvinced. Internos's explanation of the balloon clip was particularly excellent, and objections to it seemed a little desperate.

I'm curious though - are there any cases that skeptics and believers alike say "yeah, that's a bit weird" about? Obviously, there are examples where you can't say for sure either way, but what's the strongest evidence out there?

Originally posted by Badgered1
Or are we so mind numbingly arrogant that we will continue to believe that intelligent life starts and stops here?

Arrogant? I think that if that were the case, it would mostly be sad. We'd be it. Top of the heap. And we'd be completely alone. Nobody to compare our experience of reality with. I wouldn't call it arrogant. Certainly nothing to brag about. Sad, maybe.

That aside. As of right now, we are alone. We don't know how life forms, so there's no way to accurately come up with any kind of probability of life forming or existing elsewhere. There just isn't.

You can hope, and you can believe, like you might believe that when you die you go to meet Jesus. But looking objectively at the available evidence, the only thing you can say with any degree of accuracy is that we exist on Earth, but we have no proof that life, intelligent or otherwise, exists anywhere else.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Nohup]

Originally posted by damagedoor
... what's the strongest evidence out there?

The strongest evidence out there is the volume. There is no one particular case, because all of the individual cases fall short in some way. A photo is taken, but there is no other witnesses, or physical evidence to show what it was. A person experiences something, but there's no photo. And so on.

The strongest evidence is that there are tens of thousands of reports of sightings and experiences. Occam's Razor suggests that it would be extremely improbable that every single one of these sightings/experiences is either a hoax, a misidentification, or a mental problem.

That means something weird is going on. What is it, exactly? We don't know. We don't have enough pieces of the puzzle yet to even figure out what the puzzle picture is supposed to be.

[edit on 20-10-2008 by Nohup]

Originally posted by mrman81
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

Into a corner? Not at all! And the only absolute i mentioned was that nothing with any mass has ever and never will match the speed of light. Prove me wrong fox!

Does this quote from a famous VIP add any credibility to those that believe faster than light travel is possible?

"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity.... Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do."

Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works, in a lecture shortly before he died.

Or how about this one?

Remark to White House Reporter Sarah McClendon:
"Yeah, Sarah, if people found out what we've done, they'll chase us down the street and lynch us"

George Herbert Walker Bush - (1924 -) Source: UFO - The Greatest Story Ever Denied, film by Jose Escamilla Media, LCC

Originally posted by Nohup
Occam's Razor suggests that it would be extremely improbable that every single one of these sightings/experiences is either a hoax, a misidentification, or a mental problem.

Does it? Every sighting or experience has to be something, and surely Occam's Razor would favour them being phenomena we already understand and accept?

To put it another way, we can present evidence that people do hoax, misidentify and have mental problems. I can see a spread of those being explanations for the thousands of sightings. But what evidence is there that aliens exist and should be considered an equally acceptable explanation? Without that evidence, the volume of sightings surely means nothing?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I don't think the quote from Ben Rich has been confirmed. Is there a tape available? A witness? What is the original source?

The quote from Bush has been linked to the Abu Ghraib coverup, the 9/11 attacks, and the illuminati. Interesting how a vague statement can be used to suit just about anyone's agenda.

reply to post by Phage


Yep the believers take a quote out of context and use it to help thier case.
They just can't use the available evidence to help thier case becuase the evidence for it is weak at best.

Originally posted by damagedoor

Originally posted by Nohup
Occam's Razor suggests that it would be extremely improbable that every single one of these sightings/experiences is either a hoax, a misidentification, or a mental problem.

Does it? Every sighting or experience has to be something, and surely Occam's Razor would favour them being phenomena we already understand and accept?

To put it another way, we can present evidence that people do hoax, misidentify and have mental problems. I can see a spread of those being explanations for the thousands of sightings. But what evidence is there that aliens exist and should be considered an equally acceptable explanation? Without that evidence, the volume of sightings surely means nothing?

"The volume of sightings surely means nothing?" Are you nuts? Even the hardest to convince skeptics agree that 5-10% of all the sightings ARE INDEED UNIDENTIFIED! And if they are unidentified is it such a huge leap of imagination to assume they are extra-terrestial? I doubt the military has whole squadrons ready to fly on a moments notice.

Use Occams razor fairly if you are going to use it. I am getting so sick of close-minded scientists proclaiming only drug-addicts and mentally unstable people view them. If anyone is unstable ITS THE SCIENTISTS that refuse to be objective. What about all the reliable testimony from pilots and mariners? Geesh you guys just never give up the BS do you?!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

"The volume of sightings surely means nothing?" Are you nuts? Even the hardest to convince skeptics agree that 5-10% of all the sightings ARE INDEED UNIDENTIFIED! And if they are unidentified is it such a huge leap of imagination to assume they are extra-terrestial?

It only means that it unknown at that time. It doesn not mean that for a fact it is alien intelligence or anything else for that matter. It is a huge leap to declare aliens are here due to the lack of evidence to support that theory.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I don't think the quote from Ben Rich has been confirmed. Is there a tape available? A witness? What is the original source?

The quote from Bush has been linked to the Abu Ghraib coverup, the 9/11 attacks, and the illuminati. Interesting how a vague statement can be used to suit just about anyone's agenda.

I already listed the respective sources. What's a matter you don't trust them? Tough!

reply to post by riggs2099


Sorry but I disagree. I think its more of a leap believing what you guys offer as alternative explanations!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


2 words bro

Lost Cause