Why do women break up with nice guys?

Thread temporarily closed for staff review.

The thread is once again open for comments.

However, from this point onward, PLEASE refrain from even the most mundane name-calling because it means the entire post will be removed as Off Topic and the author handed a warn flag for their trouble.

This is the second warning I've posted in this thread and I'm not anticipating a third should be required.

Cheers.

Apologies for my part people in the disruption and name calling etc.

Some of my frustrations do stem from being poorly educated which makes it hard when trying to convey what I see and know.Educating is to be respected as I do,but all the education in the world will not make a person better than an uneducated person.Its who they are that does.

Edrick a few weeks ago I saw a members signature here on ATS that said (along the lines and was a link) "Are you being bullied at school?" which linked to a help page,its things like that that make my stay here on ATS bearable amongst all the arguments,when I see that there are actually people out there that give a damn about others.I give a damn about you to, no matter what you may think to the contrary.

Abuse victims (all forms) do really become victims if it changes who they are for the worst.Some abuse victims start help programs etc to help others which shows to me they refuse to be/become a victim.

(not directed to anyone)
Here at the end of the day which could have been the most horrific day I can still come home and shut the world off and be with the person I love the most and visa versa and its frustrating to watch people who want that yet cant find it.I think it starts by giving it to someone first.That may take some courage,for some it comes easy to give because they dont expect or intended to get anything in return and they`re not fatally wounded if they are used or abused for their kindness.

This is not something which is gender specific nor is it found in a book.

I was actually hoping to have a lighter discussion here on BTS than the gender based heated arguments on ATS,which I`ve failed at here,in either stopping it or through my participation.

I think I`m done here anyway,or was done before I arrived

All the best.

reply to post by The Quiet Storm


I'd like not to come across as rude or acerbic because I think theres plenty of that kind of attitude been handed out here, it does seem that people here are clueless when it comes to themselves and the opposite gender, not to say that I have some spectacular insight and understanding where relationships are concerned.

People seem to think that the opposite sex have a problem, when all things considered the problem is more than likely with themselves, you complain that natural is not always right. No it isn't always right, and that culminates with you getting upset with the way things are.

If you go with expectations then you will be disappointed, they say love is a fools game and they'd be right until that is you get to a relationship where you know you can love someone and it is recipricated. I have loved women cause they were amazing human beings and they loved me... in the end I let them go because they wanted to move on, and so I moved on and loved other amazing women. And you know what its better that way..... because most of them regret moving on lol!!! and I still love them even tho they thought the grass was greener or that they needed more experience.

Possesiveness is natural and its not right, it hurts you and that hurt stops you from developing a philosophy that lets you deal with this life pattern. Stop combating the situation and be mature enough to realise our expectations do not always fit in with the way things are and that goes for each and everyone of us.

I've always taken a keen interest in the lives of those people both men and women who cheat and lie, who physically and mentally assault one another... they are miserable people and most of them, well the vast majority of them do these things because it was done to them in previous relationships or they grew up with dysfunctional parents or they have personality disorders. Either way we all have a chance to have clarity about how relationships work and don't work and to remove the negative emotions from the them or the aftermath of them, because we end up here ripping each other up cause we are resentful over the opposite sex.

Theres alot of people out there having fun with each other and enjoying their lives because they know how to treat each other in any eventuality and look after themselves at the same time.

I'd also like to apologise in advance for any offense caused.

@Gps777

Edrick a few weeks ago I saw a members signature here on ATS that said (along the lines and was a link) "Are you being bullied at school?" which linked to a help page,its things like that that make my stay here on ATS bearable amongst all the arguments,when I see that there are actually people out there that give a damn about others.I give a damn about you to, no matter what you may think to the contrary.

Well, that is very Warm of you... But Do NOT under any Circumstances make fun of Men who are just looking for love in a world that is cold and cruel. (Because this is something that I happen to Give a [snip] about)

I will be watching, and I am exceedingly Patient.

Other than that, I am willing to let the previous "Exchange" pass.

No hard feelings... I just Defend those who I see as Under attack.



Now... on to the Show, Yes?



With the Introduction of the Feminist Movement (which was engineered by the Rockefeller Foundation) for the purpose of Increasing the Workforce, and thus decreasing the Bargaining position of Labor versus Industry...



In addition to Getting all children into "State Indoctrination Centers" as early as possible so that Brainwashing may occur (I am speaking of the Current Educational System), coupled with a lack of Parents passing on Culture to their Children (which is the normal way that Culture is brought into new generations, the parents teach their children.)

Since the majority of children were not Instructed in the proper behaviors of Civilization, Civility, or Culture.... and since the Teachers did not Teach this EITHER...

The children would naturally make up their OWN Culture, and Hierarchy systems.



And you know the old saying.... Children can be the most Cruel.



Anyways... Mix that in with the Artificial Social Hierarchy of School Sports programs:


So, out of Hundreds of Students.... Maybe a Dozen or so are Chosen to Receive the Adulation of the Entire School. (Not to mention the Pre-Selection of Cheerleaders, A.K.A. Social Proof)

Since there is no culture or society passed down from parent to child (Minimally at best)......

You know how Self Esteem is Developed, Right?

Well, Constant praise from hundreds of your peers JUST MIGHT help in that Capacity, Wouldn't it?


Why are we spending Educational Dollars on Non-Educational Programs for our *SCHOOLS* again?

"Leadership" skills... I am sure.

Because only those who play sports need to be taught "Leadership", right?



Anyways, You get Utter Chaos in your Peoples Social Interactions.

An Animalistic behavior, developed because they were taught *NOTHING* of importance by their parents, or teachers.

Nothing Important in regards to Civility, Respect, Honor, Charity, Humility, Etcetera, Etcetera, Etcetera....

Just fill their brains to the Breaking point with Facts, Figures, Etcetera...... And let them develop their own Culture.

A Culture of Self Importance, Vanity, and Shallowness.

A Culture that believes that whoever has the most Sex, should be the Leader.

A culture that ignores the more Noble, and Useful traits of humanity... In favor of Vicious Self Love.



So, when these Children grow Up.... and Become the Leaders of the Nation....

What do you think will be the Consequences?


Selling out the people that voted for them, for their own financial or Social Gain?

Passing 2000+ page legislation without ever reading it, because they were "Sold" on the Idea by a Smooth Talking Corporate Shyster?

A Culture that Believes that Intelligence is a Deficiency.... Without ever seeing that In School... Those who are Intelligent, are ATTACKED by those at the Top of the artificially induced Social Hierarchy.

Causing Low Self Esteem.....

Causing a Lack of Confidence in social interactions.... Especially with the Opposite Sex.


Early on in life, Women LEARN who is at the "Top" of the Social Ladder.

And since women are Hypergamous by Nature...

Well, They get those Neurons for "Sexual Pleasure" to link with "Self Important Jerks"

Hence, Nice guys Finish Last.... because that is how your society has been engineered.


But what they don't tell you, is that "Nice Guy" means "Intelligent Male with a Conscience"

And If you don't believe that last sentence..... then you tell me with a straight face that the Leaders of our Nation are Intelligent, and Moral.

People Vote for "Charisma", not Ability.

Hence, Your Economies 40+ year slide into the Abyss.



-Edrick

Nice Guys Finish Last:
A common aphorism is that "nice guys finish last." The phrase is attributed to baseball manager Leo Durocher in 1939, though Durocher was originally referring to the opposing team rather than to male/female relationship dynamics. The full quote is, "Take a look at them. They're all nice guys, but they'll finish last. Nice guys. Finish last."

-Wiki: en.wikipedia.org...

Nerd:
Other theories of the word's origin suggest that it may derive from Mortimer Snerd, Edgar Bergen's ventriloquist dummy, or the Northern Electric Research and Development labs in Ontario (now Nortel). The Online Etymology Dictionary speculates that the word is an alteration of the 1940s term nert (meaning "stupid or crazy person"), which is itself an alteration of "nut".
The term was popularized in the 1970s by its heavy use in the sitcom Happy Days.

-Wiki: en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Social Proof:
Social proof, also known as informational social influence, is a psychological phenomenon that occurs in ambiguous social situations when people are unable to determine the appropriate mode of behavior. Making the assumption that surrounding people possess more knowledge about the situation, they will deem the behavior of others as appropriate or better informed.

Social influence in general can lead to conformity of large groups of individuals in either correct or mistaken choices, a phenomenon sometimes referred to as herd behavior. Although social proof at least in part reflects a rational motive to take into account the information of others, formal analysis shows that it can cause people to converge too quickly upon a single choice, so that decisions of even large groups of individuals may reflect very little information (see information cascades).

-Wiki: en.wikipedia.org...

-Edrick

""Leadership" skills... I am sure.

Because only those who play sports need to be taught "Leadership", right?"

Well, the normal person would probably see this and say "hey but leadership isn't only taught to those who play sports"

Yea, if you take this in the literal meaning sure. There's JROTC programs, there's uhm.. volunteer programs, afterschool programs and extracurricular activities. there's student government programs in college.

But the fact is sports is advertised a lot more than developing other good and real leadership qualities. Sports can also be seen as metaphor in that kids are taught that life is a game, and you Have to step on others to get to the top, and be as brutal as possible. Therefore in a very real sense any form of "competition" in life is about game. In the US the culture places a lot more emphasis on winning in the game even if the people play it rough, and the more uneven the score the better. In other places like asian culture games are meant to be FUN, not to be taken so seriously.

In real life, how can you be so self-obsessed with winning, being greedy, all worked up about it, trying to 'survive/win' in the face of a imposed or even self imposed concept of "scarcity" and yet at the same time brag and boast about how "life is a game to me so I treat it as such" when such a person is obviously in this a position which was given by Inheritance? Then again you ask, from where and what did this person inherit in the first place?

I don't see what the issue here is..

Why is it the woman's fault if a guy is a loser?

Shouldn't the problem of a better society and what the rules of the game are be a matter decided amongst Men..

If you are sitting back hating yourself because the gatekeepers of a social life, women, have deemed you inadequate then the responsibility falls on you to better yourself, change the circumstances that are making you a loser.

From The Hustler:

Gordon: Eddie, you're a born loser.
Eddie: What's that supposed to mean?
Gordon: First time in ten years I ever saw Minnesota Fats hooked, really hooked. But you let him off.
Eddie: I told you, I got drunk.
Gordon: Sure you got drunk, the best excuse in the world for losin.' No trouble losin' when you got a good excuse. And winning — that can be heavy on your back too, like a monkey. Drop that load too when you got an excuse. All you gotta do is learn to feel sorry for yourself. That's one of the best indoor sports, feelin' sorry for yourself. A sport enjoyed by all — especially the born loser.

Or go develop some character.

Gordon: You're damn right I'm sure. Everybody's got talent. I got talent. You think you can play big-money straight pool or poker for forty straight hours on nothing but talent? You think they call Minnesota Fats the best in the country just 'cause he got talent? Nah, Minnesota Fats's got more character in one finger than you got in your whole skinny body.

reply to post by CeasarKhanTheGreat


It does seem that this society is completely centered around the Subtle characteristics of enforcing the status quo through Demeaning Language, don't it?

Character: the inherent complex of attributes that determines a persons moral and ethical actions and reaction.

Ethics: motivation based on ideas of right and wrong.

Underhanded: sneaky: marked by deception

Demeaning: Dehumanization is the process by which members of a group of people assert the "inferiority" of another group through subtle or overt acts or statements.

Condescending: the trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior... debase oneself morally, act in an undignified, unworthy, or dishonorable way

-Edrick

reply to post by CeasarKhanTheGreat


It's hard to sort out the wood from the trees in a discussion like this, but I think I'm pretty much on the same page as you are.

As far as I can see the problem, beta males are competing with women for jobs, opportunities, status etc.

They can't challenge the alphas, who wisely stay out of the fight, so betas feel bitter and resentful towards women who are winning the battle in many instances. Either by getting top jobs or partnering the alphas that the beta males might admire or at least defer to.

Probably this is encouraged by alphas - at a distance - who feel more secure in their positions as they see other males mis-directing their frustrations at an easier target - women.

How different life can be when non-alphas work together. If there was more co-operation 'the rest of us' might be in with a chance of winning.

reply to post by berenike

They can't challenge the alphas, who wisely stay out of the fight, so betas feel bitter and resentful towards women who are winning the battle in many instances. Either by getting top jobs or partnering the alphas that the beta males might admire or at least defer to.

Civilization: Civilization is the process of civilizing or becoming civil.

Civility: politeness: the act of showing regard for others.

Cooperation: done with or working with others for a common purpose or benefit.

Society: A "society" is an abstraction of a collection of relationships between individuals, usually including distinctive cultural, economic, or political properties and vary greatly in complexity and scope.

Alpha: In social animals, the alpha is the individual in the community with the highest rank. Where one male and one female fulfill this role, they are referred to as the alpha pair (the term varies when several females fulfill this role – it is extremely rare among mammals for several males to fulfill (This position).

Social Proof: Social proof, also known as informational social influence, is a psychological phenomenon that occurs in ambiguous social situations when people are unable to determine the appropriate mode of behavior. Making the assumption that surrounding people possess more knowledge about the situation, they will deem the behavior of others as appropriate or better informed.

Herd Behavior: Herd behavior describes how individuals in a group can act together without planned direction. The term pertains to the behavior of animals in herds, flocks and schools, and to human conduct during activities such as stock market bubbles and crashes, street demonstrations, sporting events, religious gatherings, episodes of mob violence and even everyday decision making, judgment and opinion forming.

Stigmatize: Social stigma is severe social disapproval of personal characteristics or beliefs that are perceived to be against cultural norms.

Control Freak: someone with a compulsive desire to exert control over situations and people.

Bad boys, it seems, really do get all the girls. Women might claim they want caring, thoughtful types but scientists have discovered what they really want – self-obsessed, lying psychopaths.

A study has found that men with the "dark triad" of traits – narcissism, thrill- seeking and deceitfulness – are likely to have a larger number of sexual affairs.

www.independent.co.uk...

-Edrick

reply to post by berenike


Sure, I like what you have said here. To me co-operation starts with good leadership. If the people who are best at playing/manipulating the game don't teach others to do the same so the next generation has a chance to fulfill it's potentials then society is in a sad state.

How can I help it, if power like to walk on crooked legs? -Nietzsche

With power comes greed. Some people want All the power, All the money, All the women.. more than they need.. and this leaves those who are weaker impoverished because there is no co-operation between the levels of male dominance, everything supports the greed of the few.

But, there is always a reckoning.. If the father doesn't support the development of the son and rules the family by tyrannical means the son will eventually devour the father by the same means. This is a theme that repeats itself over and over in occultish art from Hamlet to The Brothers Karamazov. And in reality it creates a vicious cycle of sins being inherited as the son over time transforms into the image of the father.

My father was an alcoholic who would abuse women. I have had to overcome these things by a dramatically greater degree than the average person because it's in my genes. The same causality applies to the larger society though as one generation inherits the world of the last.

There can exist a perfect organizational structure predicated on ideal leadership though. Man as man should be.. Now, indeed, as Edrick has been pointing out Artificiality/Materialism/Superficiality have thrown things off balance.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark -Shakespeare

Though (Edrick) it is not purely the result of feminine influences.

Hopefully real men through a sense of honor and rightness can make a better future.

reply to post by CeasarKhanTheGreat

Though (Edrick) it is not purely the result of feminine influences.

They are both (Women and the Greedy "Alphas") Pawns being manipulated by the Elite through the Instinct of "Belonging" to a Tribe.

People tend to emulate those with High "Social Appeal"... and In this Civilization, that is determined purely by Mass Media.

Which is a Wholly Owned subsidiary of New World Order "Enterprises."


The Social Behavior of Protecting Women from womanizers and Lotharios was slowly eroded by both the engineered feminist movement, and the "Free Love" (Love... HA!) movement of the 1960's.

This "Free Love" movement, came on the heels of the MK-Ultra Project, which was a Research program whose purpose was to discover the inner workings of human behaviors, motivations, instincts, and consciousness.
en.wikipedia.org...

Although the CIA insists that MKULTRA-type experiments have been abandoned, 14-year CIA veteran Victor Marchetti has stated in various interviews that the CIA routinely conducts disinformation campaigns and that CIA mind control research continued. In a 1977 interview, Marchetti specifically called the CIA claim that MKULTRA was abandoned a "cover story."

Family is one of the GREATEST and most powerful forces within society... which the feminist movement, and the movement of the 60's was designed to Disrupt, and eventually destroy in order to consolidate total power in the hands of the Financial Elite.

They Divide men from women... (well laid men USE women, and throw them away, making the women hate men ever more, and they AND women insult and demean guys who are actually Civil, and seek real relationships.) in order to Conquer them BOTH.

IT is the same plan that TPTB have used for EVERY OTHER aspect of Civilization, with the added benefit that the People who are HAVING the Majority of the sex, will not admit that their Greed is Destroying Society...

Because then they would actually have to Confront their own Ego's, and question their previous presumptions about the world, society, and gender relationships.

And, you know what they say....

"Ignorance is Bliss."

-Edrick

reply to post by Edrick


You overestimate the effect Mass Media has on society.

Media includes everything and what a person saturates themselves with is Selective.

I read a lot of books and watch independent films..

I also like watching some reality television..

You are heading in a direction that force of reality is not. You're just pointing out silly circumstantial correlations.

reply to post by CeasarKhanTheGreat

You are heading in a direction that force of reality is not. You're just pointing out silly circumstantial correlations.

Google Video Link

So, let me get this straight... You are saying that Mass Media does not Influence people?


Then why do they spend so much money on advertising Every year... if, as you claim, it don't work?

-Edrick (Try Again)

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
What gives? I get all dressed up, put on a smiley face and be at my best behavior, but for what? To get dumped again?

Why can't women settle for what they have! Always looking for something better. I was nice to every last woman I ever dated and still they dump me.

What the hell was that for? Am I supposed to be rude and stare at her chest?

theres nothing mysterious about you, first date and you tell her everything, you kiss her feet and suck up so much that you forget who you are...

be nice but mysterious aswell, and be a jerk every now and then...

reply to post by Edrick


Thanks for giving me 4 U-Tube videos and only 2 sentences of your own words. And you claim Others are being brainwashed by the media..

I won't spend 30 minutes of my life watching crap you think I should be familiar with.. I've already seen the documentary on Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent, thanks.

And while it does have an effect on people, people can choose to either pay attention to it or not. They can disregard if they like. People can also choose not to do harmful things like Smoking and Driving Drunk. Most people on this website have already made the smart decision to be skeptical of the Mass Media thereby showing a sagacious familiarity with Free-Will. After all, a main concept of Chomsky it that the Mass Media Corporations exist and operate because of citizens willingness to be manipulated. Granted, there is an unconscious manipulative aspect too.

I just don't resonate with blamed the big bad wolf for all the worlds problems. People need to take responsibility and get things done themselves without government and corporations acting as big daddy.

reply to post by CeasarKhanTheGreat

Thanks for giving me 4 U-Tube videos and only 2 sentences of your own words. And you claim Others are being brainwashed by the media..

Look, If this is really the Direction that you want this conversation to Go in.... then by all means, Let us Dance.

I won't spend 30 minutes of my life watching crap you think I should be familiar with.. I've already seen the documentary on Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent, thanks.

But Mass Media ownership Consolidation, FCC deregulation, and Systemic Propaganda is not a problem for you, eh?

Just confirming the Status Quo?

Oh, I like your Avatar... with the Devil whispering into some guys ear.... Nice.

And while it does have an effect on people, people can choose to either pay attention to it or not.

Yeah, so let's bombard the population with Lies, and manipulate them into False Wars all because YOU don't think it is a Bad thing for the Media to LIE to people, manipulate their Emotions, etcetera, etcetera.

They can disregard if they like.

Yeah.... so Let's keep DOING it!



Oh, just to be absolutely Clear... your opinion on the subject went from THIS:

You are heading in a direction that force of reality is not. You're just pointing out silly circumstantial correlations.

TO THIS:

And while it does have an effect on people......

They can disregard if they like.

So, that was YOU, changing your position in an attempt to discredit my post.

And also, Moving the Goalpost.

Which is a Logical Fallacy.
en.wikipedia.org...

Granted, there is an unconscious manipulative aspect too.

Nope, I'm afraid that you originally claimed that it was just....

....silly circumstantial correlations.

I just don't resonate with blamed the big bad wolf for all the worlds problems. People need to take responsibility and get things done themselves without government and corporations acting as big daddy.

Whose afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?

I'm aiming at Taking these manipulative [snip] DOWN.

As opposed to.... you know.... Attempting to Justify Their Evil.

Thanks for letting me know where you stand, Man.

-Edrick

reply to post by RizeorDie

theres nothing mysterious about you, first date and you tell her everything, you kiss her feet and suck up so much that you forget who you are...

be nice but mysterious aswell, and be a jerk every now and then...

Some Nice Music for Your Enjoyment.

God, I feel like hell tonight
Tears of rage I cannot fight
I'd be the last to help you understand
Are you strong enough to be my man?

Nothing's true and nothing's right
So let me be alone tonight
Cause you can't change the way I am
Are you strong enough to be my man?

Lie to me
I promise I'll believe
Lie to me
But please don't leave

I have a face I cannot show
I make the rules up as I go
It's try and love me if you can
Are you strong enough to be my man?

When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be man enough to be my man?

Lie to me
I promise I'll believe
Lie to me
But please don't leave

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1b0d7eda0aec.jpg[/atsimg]
So Mysterious....

-Edrick

reply to post by Edrick


Listen, guy. You haven't said a damn thing in your last reply to me. Your post was filled with lame attempts to attack me/my point with arrows that were WAY off the mark.

And your Showmanship wasn't good enough to make up for your lack of substance.

Please don't pass these qualities on to the next generation of potential Men.

I really don't mean to insult you, I hope my response doesn't get this thread closed, and I will be leaving now. Thanks for your time.