American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

To anyone who suggests that the Second Amendment is no longer applicable, with the assumption that we now have a civilized society, that person is an idiot.

We have many more savages in North America than when our forefathers first set foot here. If you don't know this, you are ignorant. If disbelieve this, you are willfully ignorant.

Look, I like for folks to be what they want to be. Stupid, in denial, ignorant, cowardly, fearful, uncoordinated, or a full time idiot. But your opinion of the right and preference we have in the US for gun ownership is our business.

You don't have to like it, you don't have to understand, you don't have to find it tasteful. You don't have to defend yourself. You don't have to use deadly force. Just don't deny me that privilege and right.

Add to that - we are being invaded.

L.A. County alone has 10.2 million people, 40% of which work for cash. And you know what a lot of that would be. 95% of all warrants in LA County for murder are for illegal aliens. 75% of the Most Wanted in LA are for illegals. 2/3rds of all LA births are to illegal aliens, mostly on Medi-Cal, paid for by citizens. 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are illegal Mexicans. 2% are picking crops. 29% are on welfare. 29% of all federal inmates are illegals.

Fine, upstanding folks, these illegal immigrants.

As you can see, California gun laws are apparently a bit too restrictive on their population.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Yes ban guns, and rocks, and knives, and swimming pools, and clubs, and tasers.

How ignorant can people be. Look in the mirror if you want to solve the problem. Everytime you refuse to accept responsibility for your own actions, every time you make another law or regulation, you are no longer living in a free society. Freedom means holding individual rights above all others. It also means holding the INDIVIDUAL accountable for their actions not the instrument. Be realistic, can you not see making something illegal does not prevent it from exisiting.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Funny don't you guys in the Uk have huge knife homicide crisis over there? I agree with you on the blind patriotism here.. but on the gun issue no way.. remember people kill people and not GUNS and they always will find a way to do it(in your case knives)... Our constitution is founded on the principle with the right to bear arms.. So if you like America you need to accept that.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]

reply to post by dooper


Remember dude illegals are taking the jobs we don't want..... And corporations like illegals and immigrants because they can pay then crappy wages with no benefits. Our country was founded on immigrants... and beleive me when the Irish came they were also treated like dirt and crime rates were high among them aswell..Unless you are a native American you have no right to say "we are being invaded" Because If I remembered correctly Cali, texas NM, and AZ were part of Mexico to begin with.. You should be angry with the open border policy and the people backing it(neocons) as they want to make the North American Union... Not the poor illegals that take the crap jobs we don't want.. btw I find it funny that 29% of those in prison are illegal... there are still more citizens and legals in prison then illegals I beleive you on the homicide rates with the gang related issues over there.. but the majority of illegals come here to work and send money back to mexico.. not to do crime..

[edit on 12-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]

[edit on 12-11-2008 by thefreepatriot]

reply to post by thefreepatriot


No immigrants are taking the Jobs, YOU don't want, there are plenty of natives that will take them. And then Contribute to the Local economy, instead of earning, then sending it home....

I dont think that its necessarily blind patriotism. Patriotism to me is a good thing, believing in the original viewpoint of what America was meant to be. Equality and liberty and freedom for all is an incredible idea, but sadly it has never been fully implemented.

I think the more proper term is devout nationalism. Nationalism in any sense is disturbing to me, it is a separation based off of lines drawn by some person on a map. The majority of American citizens are devout nationalists but to me are in no sense patriots. They would not fight and die for the values of freedom, so they do not deserve to be called such.

reply to post by quetzalcoatl13


Believing in what the US stood for is not patriotism. It is called 'believing in what the US stood for'. Lots of people around the world believe in the notions and beliefs of the founding fathers - does that make them patriotic Americans, or just people who know a good thing when they see it?

Patriotism, or anything that creates "them" and "us", is inherently dangerous, and should be treated as such. Feeling proud for the actions of others is morally bankrupt - it is plagiarism of the strength and talent of others. Sharing the same country of birth does not elevate you to their level, nor does it rub off on you.

I'm not targeting this at you, quetzalcoatl13, but anyone who thinks patriotism is somehow acceptable.

Patriotism doesn't bother me at all, and in fact I think that patriotism is healthy. Nationalism on the other hand... *shiver*

I can't believe this thread got so big. Some of the things on ATS just amaze me. Any how, hope fully this was posted before, but I'm not going to read through very page to find out. So here it is for individuals who are obviously confused.

Patriotism Defined

Notice how it says "interests", I would guess this is intended as in the better interests, and not solely the interests of the leaders, as those are highly questionable.

patriot


So how does one loving their country, scare some one?
We can love our country, and not support the government. Patriot/ism has nothing to do with government. Leaders can be any one the people look towards, elect or not.

Illegals are not just taking the crappy jobs that Americans don't want. They are sucking the life out of our country, milking our welfare system, and breaking our healthcare system.

The bulk don't pay taxes, don't learn English, and don't give a damn about our laws.

Normally, when you get a leech on you, you knock it off or burn it off, but you get rid of the bloodsuckers! Any parasite. And these Mexican illegals are like ticks - once they get their heads buried in, you play hob getting rid of them.

Texas fought for its independence with Mexico and won that independence, becoming an independent Republic. Only later did it join the US. Mexico got its ass kicked and we picked up additional territory.

What happens is when you go to war and lose, you generally lose territory. At least that's the way it worked for the past several millennia.

Remember the Holy Roman Empire? Remember Yugoslovia? How about Rhodesia? Part of Britain used to be French, part of France used to be British, on and on.

It doesn't matter what something used to be in decades and centuries past.

You want to be part of this country, then be part of it, embrace it's values, and become yet another patriotic citizen.

You just want to suck from the system, take your ass home.

reply to post by ADVISOR

I love that post. Thank you. I think too many people confuse patriotism with nationalism.

A while back I read an article about psychological studies in subliminal images showing that exposure to one's national flag moderates political passions:

"...studies conducted by researchers at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem have shown that exposing people to a subliminal image of the national flag had just the opposite fact [from what was expected] -- moderating their political attitudes."
from: www.medicalnewstoday.com...

Not that groups of radicals rarely display their national flag, except to perhaps mangle it or distort it. They display some other imagery instead.

When nationalism tries to take hold in the USA--and I believe that it is coming--it will encourage people to rally around something other than the current Stars & Stripes.

reply to post by dooper


Star for you. I live in Texas, and recently was in an auto wreck with an illegal. She spoke ZERO English, and her only ID was her Mexican passport. The police officer gave her a ticket for no drivers license! I asked him if he was OK with this! He told me to forget about it, he sees this EVERY DAY! The only consolation was that it wasn't her car and the owner had insurance, which he produced when he arrived at the scene.

reply to post by anotherdad



We took the native Americans land, and had a genocide against them.

Yes, yes, of course. The white man has a long track of warlike behavior. Just one little problem. The Indians who met the Anglos at the shore - in turn had kicked out earlier populations, who in turn had kicked out earlier populations, on and on.

It's the way it is. Don't cherry pick your predators. It does you no service, and it changes nothing.

All history is defined by conquest. Anywhere you look, any period of time.

Right and wrong don't enter into the equation.

There are winners, and there are losers.

Hopefully, the losers are peacefully integrated with honor into the winner's new society. And that's about the best you can hope for.

Wikipedia defines it:

A patriot is someone who thinks/feels patriotism, support for their country.

Patriotism is commonly defined as love of and/or devotion to one's country. The word comes from the Latin patria, and Greek patritha"

The emphasis here is on the devotion to the country. So i am gonna venture to guess that blind patriots are those who support the leader/leaders. Like patriots they are loyal to a fault, never questioning or doubting in what they believe in. Funny thing about this is that both sides see themselves as in the rite and the other guy as a quack.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by ch1ldofthe70s]

What scares me is stupidity and complexity. On the one hand, our population is becoming more and more ignorant and illiterate. On the other hand, goverment is becoming more and more complex.

The 2nd scaryist thing to me is hearing an ignorant, system abusing 'disabled' mom yacking her mouth about politics and every word is something I recognize exactly word for word right from the most partisan of pundits....to make it worse, her idea of fixing the economy entirely centers on her thinking our government is run like her 25k a year household economy.... It tells me that normally a lot of people do not even try to THINK for themselves, and when they do, they FAIL....which leads to my fear of the monster wave of anti-intellectualism that has this country firmly in it's grip.

The most scary thing though, to me, is the fact that we've let corporations get so big and complex and powerful that letting ONE of them 'go down' threatens our national security? WTH

It is time to reevaluate our threats and our enemies!

Corporations quietly running our government is much, much more scary to me than about anything else.

So how does one loving their country, scare some one?
We can love our country, and not support the government. Patriot/ism has nothing to do with government. Leaders can be any one the people look towards, elect or not.

Mark Twain once wrote:

"In a republic, who is 'The Country?' Is it the government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the government is merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its perrogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is patriot and who isnt. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them. Who then is 'The Country?' Is it the newspaper? Is it the pulpit? Why these are mere parts of the country, not the whole of it; they have not command, they have only thier little share in the command. In a monarchy, the King and his family are the country; in a republic, it is the common voice of the people, each of you, for himself, by himself and on his own responsibility, must speak. It is a solemn and weighty responsibility, and not lightly to be flung aside at the bullying of the pulpit, press, government, or the empty catchphrases of politicians. Each must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, and which course is patriotic and which isnt. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide it against your convictions is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. If you alone of all the nation decide one way, and that way be the right way according to your convictions of the right, you have done your duty by yourself and by your country. Hold up your head. You have nothing to be ashamed of."

This was what he believed to be a patriot. IMO it also serves to remind us what roles the press, the church and the government was meant to play in our country even if they dont now.

Also IMO, patriots/patriotism would only scare people that are loyal to the church, the press or the government. This is because a patriot, who would try and preserve his country, can see that those three before mentioned groups do not always have the countries best interest in mind even though they would have us believe so, and is unafraid to speak out or take action to expose or stop them to protect the country.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by ch1ldofthe70s]

[edit on 18-11-2008 by ch1ldofthe70s]

[edit on 18-11-2008 by ch1ldofthe70s]

[edit on 18-11-2008 by ch1ldofthe70s]

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

I agree! One thing that seems to be is the exact opposite of what "they say".Once I worked for a company that continually spoke of their leaders uprightness and credability only to see him bankrupt the company and run off with the money.Jimmy Swaggart at one time could only preach about sexual perversion,,,,well it seems that the very thing thats spoken against is whats truly on their minds of these so called leaders, whether its in the coporate world or the govt.or religious.So lets all call TIMEOUT and do overs .Lets start a system whereas our congress and senators are chosen at random as they do in jury duty.IE if you are a truckdriver and make $50k a year thats what you will be paid to serve your community plus room and board...and you can only write laws that your next door neighbor can understand...if not rewrite it in a way that the common man can understand,If you are a DR and make 250k thats what youll be paid! Serving your country wont make you rich but it will neither bankrupt you.And lets limit the term to 1 at the most.Most people dont know that once a politician has served we continue their same pay and benefits for life,so it costs the taxpayer more to vote in a new rep,let em work for the same pension and healthcare that we the people have to endure!! We the people have had enough!

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

You are a mindless moron who knows nothing about gun ownership. The patriots with the guns will save this nation when the times comes. Guns do serve a purpose. Guns balance the fact between the Government and the people and when the time comes I will lock and load and fight to the death for what this country really is all about, not what our corrupt government has done to it. If you are gonna make a statement about gun owners, remember, we are the ones with the guns, you aren't.