American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

Is it just me or does anyone else find American Patriotism worrying?

Most of the threads on this site, particularly from the southern states such as Texas, to name but a few, seem to blindly accept whatever America does without question.
It honestly reminds me of German Nationalism immediately prior to World War II, particularly the whole flag waving culture that now seems to be embedded in America.

The fact that Bush came into power under the guise of a 'War Presiedent' even before Iraq etc terrifies me and has no place in a modern civilisation.

Anyway, this is not a 'Flame' on America. I hope some Americans can prove me wrong. Let's keep this civil, i'm just looking to be corrected.

Discuss!!

Yea idiots who voted for bush terrify me. They aren't really patriots, but mindless morons.

American patriots who love freedom and liberty, and constantly question their government don't scare me at all. Neither do gun-owners.

We were given the 2nd amendment for a reason, and I'm not particularly scared of patriots who own guns.

reply to post by JipStix


Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

Blind Patriotism is a step in the path to fascism. I agree that the blind patriotism is growing steadily too. THAT'S a seriously serious worry.

However, there can be confusion between blind patriotism and steadfast patriotism.

Informed patriotism is what I like to cuddle.

Cuhail

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


What country are you from?

And you refer to America like the Nazi's, Who's land have we taken. We gave France, Germany, Spain, Italy, soon Iraq..............on so on there land back. So what is your basis for the comparison?

Nazi's tried to take it, we stopped it.

As i guess a patriot i am proud of that record! and of those who died to do it!

reply to post by Cuhail


Please elaborate

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


As a single woman living alone, my gun sure as hell serves a purpose for me. And, our Constitution gives the populance the right to bear arms and our Supreme Court has upheld that right. And, my opinion is if you don't like guns, don't buy one, don't own one, but don't dare try to take my rights to own one away from me.

And, I am highly civilized, thank you. I am also from a Southern state.

As for patriotism, real patriotism is a lot different than blindly following one's government. I view patriotism as loving my country and what it was founded on enough to question my government. In that respect, I view myself as a patriot.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


During the last 8 years there were people that actively rooted AGAINST the United States of America simply because they did not like its President.

Anything bad for America was good for a certain group of people. Anything good for America was bad for them.

So my question is do you simply hate America, which I assume is the opposite of Patriotism, or do you simply just hate Bush? I hoping it is the latter, because no matter who is President, America will always be a great country.

reply to post by skeptic1


If no-one else had a gun, why would you need one? Why not take away your right to own one? What's next? Don't take away my right to own Inter continental Ballistic Missiles?

An exaggeration but i'm sure the reasonable amongst you will gt my point.

So what's the difference between patriotism and blind patriotism?

In the end it seem to me that you all follow it till it goes wrong then you claim ou were following 'the other form of patriotism'.

But anyway, what is the deal with a 'war president'?

Nobody needs fear informed gun owners. I grew up in Northern Idaho, and guns were tools to procure food, and to protect one's homestead from varmints -- both four and two-legged. I believe that the majority of gun owners in the U.S. are LEGAL gun owners, and folks like that understand safety, and to a lesser extent, understand that a person has a higher level of responsibility when employing them.

Living here, in a British Dependency Territory, I've had many occasion to observe how gun owners are viewed by folks who have been "socialized" ...... ooops ... socialised... by English rule. I'm not racking on the Mother country, truly, but I fail to see where removing firearms from law-abiding citizens accomplishes anything. Criminals will always have guns. They don't give a crap about legal conventions.

I agree with the OP, in that Patriotism can sometimes seem like a head-in-the-sand support of anything that the government promulgates. I think the truth is closer to the bone. People want to protect their own, and they want to believe in their country. Patriotism for many people seems a fond backward gaze toward a time when Americans were proud of their accomplishments, and supportive of the government. I think we might all be surprised at the number of people who question, really question the government. I think it has been so for more than 16 years, as the shift away from nationalism and common goals became more apparent. Sure, you can go to a NASCAR race, and hear the National Anthem, and see more than a few people with a tear in their eyes. They have hope, and they wish for a return of times when we were together, aligned along a common goal.......... and they feel cheated, because they know, most of them, deep down, that our leaders have let us down.

I think more than anything, most Americans want a strong leader, someone who we can trust and belive it, and I think the choices before us fall a good margin short of what we need. Lesser of evils. Let's ban the notion of evil. Lesser of mediocrity. Good luck all. We'll make it if we hold our values that the country was founded upon close to our hearts.

Sure, the previous paragraphs were filled with platitudes. Should I feel guilty or @#$@#$@# "asleep" [God, that pisses me off] for being hopeful?

reply to post by RRconservative


No, I don't hate America, i respect many, if not all of its virtues, many of which share the UK's point of view

I live in Texas ...and I could very well be about the only one who does not have a gun ..hates war ...loves my country but does not believe either of these wars were about Bin Laden or 911 ....but other reasons ..
I voted for Bush the first time and have been regretting it ever since .

I argue with every Texan I know lol about most of the things I mentioned ..

And I have been told I am unpatriotic because I question what Bush is a part of (Skull and Bones) ... the war ..911 ..and everything our Gov has been doing since 911 ...

So your just about right on with what you said about most Texans at least in my town ..they are just about all Republicans ..and just about all Bush supporters (And now McCain) ...so I am just screwed here and will more than likely be the first one rounded up for the camps ..at least from my town lol ..

Maybe its because I am not a Texan ..I am from Alaska originally and down here they are for sure different than what I am used to ...

reply to post by RRconservative


No, I don't hate America. I was brought up on American music, i'm a child of the grunge generation. It's 2008 but I'll still travel 2000 miles to go see Pearl Jam.

my problem is with the blinkered view of so many that theyn accept what goes on around them because the government says so. Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran......seriosly, what direct threat has that country ever show you? Yes you invaded its neighbour for oil, so yes, they have a point! Would you let Russia take over Canade for gas?

Again, I ahve no problem with America, just the thought process.

And again, I am open to be proven wrong, so lets keep to the facts and not get nasty!!

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

Guns are like insurance that you hope you'll never have to use.
Think about it, if a thief is going to break into House 1 or House 2.
House 1 has a family with a membership to NRA and hunts wild game, ect.
House 2 has a suit wearing, businessman that can't change the oil in his Jaguar XJ7
Who's house is getting the windows busted out and there stash taken?

Also I like to have some nice brown bear repellent when I look out my window and see the chicken shed getting torn up.
Or a rabid raccoon outside my house, walking bow legged foaming at the mouth.
Or a chicken-hawk trying to carry off some farm animals.
There is lots of reasons to have guns, and a god given right to own them.
After all, not everyone lives on Wall-Street.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

If no-one else had a gun, why would you need one? Why not take away your right to own one? What's next? Don't take away my right to own Inter continental Ballistic Missiles?

It wouldn't matter if no one else had them. I am sure in the UK that violent crime occurs without guns. In the US, violent crime occurs with weapons other than guns. Someone can break into my home with a gun or a knife or a freaking sling-shot. And, since I am a meek little woman without a man here all the time to protect me,
I like to have something to protect myself if some criminal or crazy person breaks into my home.

An exaggeration but i'm sure the reasonable amongst you will gt my point.

And, it seems to me that you are showing a slight lack of reason....but I am willing to overlook that since I gather you don't live in the US. If I am wrong, correct me please.

So what's the difference between patriotism and blind patriotism?

In my opinion, blind patriotism is supporting your government no matter what just because of the country you live in. Real patriotism is loving your country and its founding principles enough to question your government....no matter what.

As for a war president....I am not too sure about that. It normally refers to a president that serves during war time. But, Bush sure wasn't elected as or to be a war president. Last time I checked, things were pretty peaceful when he was elected and took office. Things got dicey about 9 months after his inauguration.

reply to post by Simplynoone


Hey, thanks for standing out and being honest! That's what i'm looking for - people that have their own point of view regardless of what other people think!

You have proven my general consensus wrong (although right in so many other ways) and I thank you for it!)

Love Thebudweiserstuntman!

P.S. the minute you mention anything anti Patriotic its amazing the amount of people that freak out without substance - my point exactly!!

Originally posted by skeptic1

As for a war president....I am not too sure about that. It normally refers to a president that serves during war time. But, Bush sure wasn't elected as or to be a war president. Last time I checked, things were pretty peaceful when he was elected and took office. Things got dicey about 9 months after his inauguration.

Yes exactly, he wasn't elected during war time but sure turned that around pretty quickly.
Before he was elected he announced that he would be a 'war president'

Fun Eh"!?

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

The number one reason we have the 2nd ammendment is to reverse the $#!+ that is happening now. We are supposed to defend America from enemies, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. That includes corrupt governments. Our founding fathers put those ammendments in place to protect ourselves from such governments, however, there are too many people that are complacent being slaves to their government and giving their freedoms away. Just keep watching your Big Brother and think your government cares /)!(/< about you.

You speak as if the UK is so far ahead of us culturally. The reason we left there was to get out of the tyrranicle capitalist society. It just followed us over here. I can guarantee you that most people who did vote for Bush in his first term are completely pissed where this administration has led us. But it's not only Bush, it was Clinton, Bush Sr. etc. etc. The list goes on. Thats just how politicians are.

Thing is, if your government wants to make you slaves even more so, there is jack you can do about it. At least with our 2nd ammendment, they will have to fight us for it.

reply to post by Snift


All of the below a good kick to the teeth would sort them out - apart from the brown bear - you have a point there, but only in some states!

If Patriotism means nationalism, as in, supporting one's country no matter what, then that is evil.

If Patriotism means supporting the Constitution and the ideals behind it against all enemies, even if the enemies are American, then that is a good thing.


And regarding the guns, "cold, dead fingers," my friend.

[edit on 10-10-2008 by Grumble]