American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

reply to post by pieman


So..The terrorist thought they wouldn't need their guns and sold them to the UK underground. You really think that...?

lol..umm...ok

reply to post by MorningStar8741


It's funny that you suggested that armed citizens didn't stop the LA riots. Actually, many armed citizens contained it, not allowing these idiots to come and trash their neighborhoods. And yes, some were shot when they insisted on crossing property lines. A few get dropped, and the others decide on easier targets. That is a very, very key element that many here don't seem to understand.

We had other riots in Liberty City, and the neighbors in surrounding areas armed themselves and kept the "residents" of Liberty City, who burned their own neighborhood, out of their neighborhoods. You this citizenry meeting force with force what you want, but it's very effective. And now and then a turdnugget whose mother should have drowned him at birth gets perforated and assumes ambient temperature.

Now keep in mind that the "law" wasn't anywhere to be seen within those areas. They themselves were family men and weren't going into those areas either! The riot was thus contained by surrounding citizens, out front in the streets, armed to the teeth. Not the police. They just let it "burn itself out." Now, when you need help the most, don't assume you are getting any.

I also noted that during and for a year or so right after these riots, there were a lot of former critics of gun ownership lining up to purchase the very items they previously found completely unacceptable.

It isn't the responsibility of the state to provide for the security of it's citizens. A person's security is is own responsibility, and that to me is the highest form of personal responsibility and thus the highest form of patriotism. This concept of individual responsibility has been verified in courts here in America when a citizen sued law enforcement for not protecting them.

It goes back to the basics. There are prey and there are predators. All life is a race, a hide, or a fight. And we alone get to choose. Most of the time.

If someone doesn't want the means to defend themselves, I don't have a problem with that. If someone doesn't understand another person's desire to own firearms, I don't have a problem with that. It just means that person has never, ever assumed responsibility for his own defense, and sure as hell couldn't help his neighbor, which is a form of responsibility as well.

It's nothing new. I hate to say it, but I find many of these folks are hiding their personal cowardice behind noble concepts of illumination, enlightenment, understanding, reason, violence avoidance, and personal choice.

And at the end of the day, many of the "enlightened" have never been expose to elements or situations that require personal action.

That's why I discount their opinions outright. They all speak, "hypothetically." Yeah, find yourself in a gunfight without a gun, and your perceptions change pretty quick, or like other prey, you get dead.

reply to post by pieman


" hmmmm, what else happened in the late 90's that may have contributed to gun crime in the UK, oh yeah, that's right, a whole bunch of terrorists called a ceasefire and didn't need their guns anymore, shockingly, gun crime of all types has gone up since. "

Are you suggesting that weapons belonging to the I.R.A have gotten into the hands of criminal elements on mainland Britain. Or did you think the UDA etc supplied the weapons.

Do you remember a little thing where the weapons caches were decommissioned. Verified by an Independent International monitoring commission.
And i`d hazard a guess that if they did hold back any weapons, it not English Thugs that they would be sharing them with .

reply to post by tmbandt


it seems to me that most americans see themselves as abeacon of freedom because they believe the bull that their media feeds them on, but to the rest of the world you are opressive invaders with a very corupt and manipulative goverment who spend most of their time sticking their big noses into other countries business. when it comes to patriotism you are probably very patriotic,we all think we are better than the rest, whether he's full of bull or not have you wondered why obama will not wear a pin or hold his heart during the anthem, make your nation something to be truly proud of, dont just demand that its great, coz from over here it looks like it sucks the biggun. we in england are not allowed to be patriotic anymore, they call it racism, but we still are, even though our country has turned to poop, one day we will be great again and i hope the same for you guys too

reply to post by MaynardisGod


This man is right on the ball... thank god there are others out there.


CuriousFinger gives MaynardisGod a high five.

If I didn't have my gun, the King of England could just walk in here anytime he wants and start shoving me around. Thats why we have guns!

[edit on 11/10/2008 by MarkAkaSilent]

reply to post by dooper


You know what, whatever you say. You all obviously want to ignore the actual point I made. Containment, fine, whatever. Did the riots happen? Do we have guns in the U.S.? Case closed. You can finesse and justify whatever little detail you want with Koreans did this and people contained that. The point was that a riot like the car fires in France could only happen because the citizens were unarmed. Well, we had riots here didnt we? That is it. Why is this so hard to grasp? Are all of you just hellbent on arguing? Do you feel personally offended because it is true? I was not making any other point other than, the fact that riots happen has nothing to do with whether or not the populace is free to be armed. I am not wrong, I am not sure what it is you insist on trying to prove. Get over it. Move on.

not only guns but also explosives and knowledge. the IRA or the UDA or whomever, they aren't exactly moral groups. and they didn't necessarily sell them direct to the criminal gangs, i'm sure they sold the stuff to dealers who sold them on.

as for decommissioning ....um sorry, excuse me a moment....









yes....ahem...good point.... ahem....um yes, yes, the IRA gave up all their weapons, they didn't try to sell off as much as possible and then decommission the ones that were left 10 years later.



these people are conscienceless and morally vapid scum, they have no principles outside of making money and haven't had since the early 80's, why the heck wouldn't they sell the guns on the black market?

reply to post by TKainZero


Save us from what? We dont hate America, Do hate guns and Violence. Cant understand why you cant unserstand that others are just as entiltled to their beliefs - I couldn't base my beliefs around a doctrine that has been amended so many times when it wasn't first hand anyway?

reply to post by pieman


" not only guns but also explosives and knowledge. the IRA or the UDA or whomever, they aren't exactly moral groups. and they didn't necessarily sell them direct to the criminal gangs, i'm sure they sold the stuff to dealers who sold them on. "


Pieman , could you give the source to this info .

Originally posted by sos37

The problem is hate and the desire to kill. Take away guns and people will stilll kill with knives and swords. Take those away and people will kill with clubs. Then rocks. etc...

Thats been stated many times over and still libs just don't get it.

But don't worry sos37, liberals will just ban rocks to keep us all safe

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


I LOVE YOU MAN!!!!!!





This is the same thing I have been saying for a long time! I was called a unpatriotic because I OPPOSED the war in Iraq! I opposed the war because we were being lied to and I did not want our young men and women (not to mention countless #'s of innocent civilians) to die for bascially a complete and total lie! (PLEASE SHOW ME THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!) I respect our consitition and I want it up held! I am willing to die to be free, but the last 8 years have not been freedom they have been oppression! The person who is president of this country was not elected by the popular vote and we are not even going to get into voter irregularities in Florida Sorry I get so mad when I think about that I think it is worse around this time of year! He has divided our country and prayed on many people's fears! He was elected out of fear!

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman

A number of years ago, I got robbed THREE times, by some thugs that lived down the road. Reported it to the cops after the first two robberies and they did nothing. After the third time, I bought a gun, set up a target in the field next to my house and every afternoon at the time they drove up the road on their way home, I was out blowin' holes in that target. I never got robbed again.

Wouldn't an alarm or better door have been a simpler answer? How do you know it was the guys down the road?

You probably weren't robbed again because there was nothing left to take!

I had an alarm but when you live a good distance from town, it doesn't really do much good. So, I should have gotten a 2 inch thick steel door or something?

I know it was the guys down the road because the bragged about it all over town. They were the town thugs and had broken into houses and businesses for quite sometime. They also stole cars to deliver to the chop shot- and I strongly suspect they stole mine. The cops knew their criminal history, but, for whatever reason, weren't willing to do anything about it.

You probably weren't robbed again because there was nothing left to take!

My, my, aren't you just too cute. No wonder people have put you on their foe list.

One thing I don't understand about gun policies in the United States is that under some circumstances people can "carry a concealed weapon" in public places. That is just not civilized. No matter what way you look at it. Carrying a weapon in a public space is wrong. If you're in constant of fear of being attacked in public then there is something wrong with the civility of the entire nation. Anyway, even if you were attacked in public it would be illegal to pull your gun on someone, so whats the point? If you absolutely need a constant sense of security, then there is definitely something wrong with the place you live in, and all the people that live there, including you. You have to ask yourself whats wrong with the American psyche if one is in constant fear of being killed or attacked in public?

I agree that people should be allowed to own guns, but that they may only remain on the property of the owner; this I feel is most consistent with the second Amendment right and its actual intention. I don't feel the Amendment intended to do with personal security against your neighbor, but out of security of a potentially corrupt and oppressive government. Carrying a gun in the glove compartment of your car is ridiculous as well. What are you honestly going to do if you're getting robbed? Whip out your gun and shoot your robber? That would end up a massacre. I for one wouldn't acknowledge anyone that carried a weapon in public, even if done so on legal authority. I couldn't tolerate living in a place with such little sense of

As a society we have to work towards a point where we no longer nurture sociopaths who look toward guns as being a solution to their problems. Abolishing the right to own guns won't fix this. It will only propagate a black market that is highly effective at distributing guns to criminals. However, abolishing the right to carry guns, in whatever form, in public places, is an essential step to providing civility and security for all the public.

[edit on 11-10-2008 by cognoscente]

Originally posted by MCoG1980
reply to post by TKainZero

 

Save us from what? We dont hate America, Do hate guns and Violence. Cant understand why you cant unserstand that others are just as entiltled to their beliefs - I couldn't base my beliefs around a doctrine that has been amended so many times when it wasn't first hand anyway?

Save this nation from any ideology or power that will threaten her.


You can have your own beleifs.

But those beleifs mean somehting.

If you don't belive in the 2nd ammendment, that your choice.

However, then you are no longer representing American values.
You are representing the values of somehting else.

Go read the US constitution, that is the embodiment of American Values...

Then this film probably won't help waking up people in the US, to see just how horrible their land really is...

It's one of the worst propaganda films I've seen in recent years. So much for demonizing the Communists for having their propaganda films. Now the USSR isn't anymore and yet the US still makes these films...

Wow... they hypocrisy hurts my eyes...

Look at this garbage....

www.apple.com...

Originally posted by cognoscente
One thing I don't understand about gun policies in the United States is that under some circumstances people can "carry a concealed weapon" in public places. That is just not civilized. No matter what way you look at it. Carrying a weapon in a public space is wrong. If you're in constant of fear of being attacked in public then there is something wrong with the civility of the entire nation. Anyway, even if you were attacked in public it would be illegal to pull your gun on someone, so whats the point?

[edit on 11-10-2008 by cognoscente]

Gonna have to burst your bubble. In a state with that allows a person to carry a concealed weapon and this person has a permit to carry a weapon. By law they are allowed to use it and some have and it has been justified.
So just because you are wetting your pants over it doesn't mean the rest of the world should.

[edit on 10/11/08 by schattuck]

Originally posted by amazed
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

Ok, maybe some people do not understand, in America we have the right to gun ownership, I plan to work towards keeping it that way, like it or not, that is the way it is.

Can you point to the post that anyone has made that suggests that people aren't aware of this fact? Sometimes, it seems like every other post on this board fixates on it! You really think people don't know?

The subtext here is clear, it's American rules and like it or leave it. Yes, I appreciate that. However, do you want to start making a similar point the next an American posts in a thread about a story that's happened in Britain claiming the 'solution' is that we should bear arms like Americans? Or is this one of those things were Americans 'advise' the rest of the world what to do, but it doesn't work the other way around?

Guns can be used for things other than just for protecting oneself from other humans. They can be used to hunt for food, they can be used to protect oneself from "wild creatures" depending upon where you live. They can be used for target practice.

Again, do you honestly think non-Americans aren't aware of this? Can you actually quote any post in this thread where people are taking issue with guns used for hunting? Although, I'd hedge a good bet that very few gun owners have actually been hunting in relation to the actual amount of gun ownership.

Another point, in America in some places you can get a permit call "concealed carry", that means that yes, some Americans have guns in their purses or in hidden holsters on their body.

Woah! What's the problem here? Firstly, I see many, many posts about how Americans carry weapons on them, it's the 'solution' - apparently - to knife attacks on the streets of Britain. Then, only a few posts ago, I'm told by an American poster not to "think that citizens of the US are carrying guns around in holsters and in their purses like wallets and lipstick. That just isn't true". Then you try to explain about 'concealed carry' permits! It seems whatever this particular Briton is told, another American will try and explain how I've got it wrong.

Look, for the sake of clarification: I know you are allowed to bear arms and I know you can carry concealed weapons. I doubt there's a man, woman or child on this site that doesn't know at least the basics of America's gun laws, even we British: we hear about it all the time.

Don't like that fact that in America we as citizens are allowed to own guns? Don't move here.

Don't worry, I've no intention of ever going to America at all.

True American Patriotism at it's best! Tell me something. Is THIS the America you want? Is this how you want to be known? Is this what you want to be so proud of? Is this something you are willing to die for?

Originally posted by cognoscente
One thing I don't understand about gun policies in the United States is that under some circumstances people can "carry a concealed weapon" in public places. That is just not civilized. No matter what way you look at it. Carrying a weapon in a public space is wrong.

no sir, what is uncivilized is people who wish to target you as you go about your daily duties.

If you're in constant of fear of being attacked in public then there is something wrong with the civility of the entire nation.

yes, and since i cant change every criminals mind about who they target, i'll do the next best thing and protect myself

Anyway, even if you were attacked in public it would be illegal to pull your gun on someone, so whats the point?

wrong! if you were attacked in public you have every right in the world to prevent harm from yourself. are you kidding me?

If you absolutely need a constant sense of security, then there is definitely something wrong with the place you live in, and all the people that live there, including you.

once again, an individual has no control over the actions of others, so the best thing to do if you want to remain safe is to be armed.
i guarantee you if someone thrust you into a situation where life and death were the only options, you would change your tone. What are you gonna do if 2 guys bust in your door, not for your cash and dvd player but to kill you and hump your wife. what are you gonna do, talk your way out of it?

You have to ask yourself whats wrong with the American psyche if one is in constant fear of being killed or attacked in public?

its not constant fear, its like insurance, or preperation. do you live in constant fear your tire will blowout on the freeway? no, but you carry a spare and the tools to install it dont you?

I agree that people should be allowed to own guns, but that they may only remain on the property of the owner;

what the hell good will that do if i get jumped loading my groceries into my trunk at walmart?

Carrying a gun in the glove compartment of your car is ridiculous as well. What are you honestly going to do if you're getting robbed? Whip out your gun and shoot your robber?

yes.

As a society we have to work towards a point where we no longer nurture sociopaths who look toward guns as being a solution to their problems.

until that day comes we must be prepared to meet that force with equal or greater force...

Abolishing the right to own guns won't fix this. It will only propagate a black market that is highly effective at distributing guns to criminals. However, abolishing the right to carry guns, in whatever form, in public places, is an essential step to providing civility and security for all the public.

nope. they tried this and it absolutely DOES NOT WORK. in every country they limit the carry of guns, crime goes up.

take a look at israel, it is VERY common to see young adults carrying full auto rifles. even young women carry around uzi's all the time. and check this out..

The murder rate in Israel is one of the world's lowest, according to a new study conducted by the University of Haifa, which refutes the claim that Israeli society is becoming more violent.

In fact, the study shows, the rate of murder in Israel is actually declining.

The murder rate per 100,000 residents has remained almost unchanged over the last 28 years and has even gone down over the past few years, the new research by the Center for the Study of Crime, Law & Society at the university reveals.

www.jpost.com...

compare that to the UK for a second, shall we?

Despite a ban on handguns introduced in 1997 after 16 children and their teacher were shot dead in the Dunblane massacre the previous year, their use in crimes has almost doubled to reach 4,671 in 2005-06. Official figures show that although Britain has some of the toughest anti-gun laws in the world, firearm use in crime has risen steadily.

www.timesonline.co.uk...


this pic is very common in israel, would you rob or try to rape these girls?

www.thehighroad.org...