Zeitgeist Addendum Released

Originally posted by scientist
What about the revolution step? They conveniently left that entire step out, which seems to be the most important.

Really?

They made the assertion that the solution was simply for the people to stop contributing to the system.

They proceeded to suggest different ways one could stop feeding the system. Such as 'getting of the grid', not joining the Military, etc, etc. I think the idea they were expressing was that by doing this it would eventually collapse in on itself.

This is obviously a simple idea. Granted, I think it would work.

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by Karlhungis


I understand what you are saying Karlhungis. No Idea is perfect. And, as we go New Ideas that offer a better life are interesting to us because our lives are obviously lacking. Otherwise people would not try to invision something better for us all. But, like i clearly state in my post, this is a New Idea. It is an Idea, not a promise, or a reward, its not an instant makeover, or a Utopia. We have to look at it. Inform yourself. Who is behind the Movie. Who is behind the Venus Project. Why should I consider this new Idea, or Ideas.
Ask yourself this. Are you completely happy with the system that we are currently living in? If yes, then Disgard the Idea.
If No?
Do you accept this new Idea worth persueing? Are there enough dissastified people that find this new Idea worth persueing? Do you feel the world needs to take this step. Are you prepared to involv yourself in that process?
How do you know the outcome of this New Idea will not result in bringing a greater level of equality and satisfaction?
The One we are in has not achieved it, does that mean anyother Idea will also fail?

Then if everyone was living a luxurious lifestyle, that would mean a huge reduction in disease and famine. Everyone would also have a lot more time on their hands. So if everyone is happy and healthy, with nothing better to do... that would lead to a lot more breeding. The population would explode. Resources would be that much more in demand. Space would become even more limited.

Currently the poorest areas in the world have the highest birth rates. The western world(currently the more luxurious, healthy and famine free has the lowest rates so if we were to extend this, then logically, could we not guess that rates would decrease.)
Like I said in my post, we need to get Informed about this new Idea and address worries, I hope I have addressed that one worry of yours. You raise some great questions.
On the topic of resourses. Free energy! Solar, wind, wave, tidal, geothermal.
The change from creating long lasting products and goods over a materialistic throw away consumer society. Which one do you think consumes more resources? These are question we need to ask with this new idea to see weather it is worth following when we compare it to how we are living today.

This society can't exist with even a hint of the current system out there or you know that these people and their followers would be labeled a cult and then taken out.

Of course it can exist with some of our society in it. What these people are advocating, and this is a simplification, is dropping money, politics and religion. In favour of a resource based society allocating technology and resources to provide for the needs of all people. On a similar note, we do not have to fully change our life, we can take just some of the really great ideas from this New one to improve our current situation, if that is all we feel is necessary.
Go back two hundred years and describe our society today as an Ideal for that time period, and i bet you would be told the same.

If anything the ideas that they put forth are as depressing as the reality that we live in, simply because they are so impossible to attain.

I am sorry that you feel depressed. Does the fact that you had this reaction mean that this new Idea is an Impossibility. How many other Ideas have been deemed impossible. I was rather optomistic and happy to see that people are still looking for better ways to do things and not simply towing the line. But you know, people have are always thinking of better ways to make and do things, mainly money. This New Idea is different too that old idea.
I thank you for your reply.
Thanks for the Link to the Book, I will try to read it.




[edit on 5-10-2008 by atlasastro]

Sorry I did not read the whole thread, have also not seen the second film yet, but in relationship to the first film. I had the concern that it might be 90% truth with the 10% propaganda thrown in. I had heard Divid Icke speak about how Jesus was just a reinactment of past God's or Messiahs. Now I knew enough history to recognise some of the names he had mentioned and to know that he was incorrect on that point on some of the names he listed off. When I saw the same thing come up in the first movie, I was worried that the movie might be doing the 95% fact with the 5% disinfo thrown in, which is the best way to spread disinfo.

Anyways I found this guys site and he compars the religious stuff in the film against what's been said. I found it pretty interesting.

kingdavid8.com...

Isn't the Jesus story just a retelling or 'copycat' of earlier godmen stories?
No. The first time I heard this theory, I was in a chat room and a person came in listing "comparisons" between Jesus and the Egyptian god Horus (such as that Horus was also born of a virgin, had 12 disciples, resurrected someone named El-Azarus, was crucified and resurrected, etc.). Wanting to see if this was true, I hit a few websites about Egyptian mythology so I could read the Horus story for myself. None of them gave any such details, and even said things which clearly contradicted this person's claims. I also went to my local library, and even a bookstore, looking at books on Egyptian mythology, and found nothing in the way of comparisons to Jesus. I then went to as many websites as I could find where similar lists were given, and asked the people running the websites to back up their claims. Most didn't respond to me, but I did have a few conversations, the text of which are in the section further down (none were able to give significant backing to their claims). I then found a couple of Christian sites that had already discussed the supposed 'comparisons' between Jesus and Horus, as well as His supposed comparisons to other ancient godmen. Their work was quite thorough, and what I'm posting on my site here is simply a summary of their work, plus my own research into these (and other) godmen stories, plus any other comparisons that people responding to this site have come up with. A couple of other Christian pages dealing thoroughly with "Christ-Mythers" can be seen at Tektonics: Confronting The Copycat Thesis and Christian-Thinktank.com: Jesus A Copycat?.

Just through I would share it.

I think these secret societies are doing a disinfo job on organised religion, but especially christianity. I don't care the organisations that are corrupted, but I think they are trying to kill the concept and those behind the consept. I think to bring in a global communistic state you have to do this, and movies like this one, I think have a double agenda.

I think if I did not have a bit of knowledge about mythology, I would have just accepted the info when I heard it first from David Icke, and then later in the movie.

I would say research this yourself, but most people will take what they hear in the movie and not research it, like thousands have already, and then go on to spread the same.

Flag and Star
thank you so much. This has to be one of the best documentary and everybody has to watch it

Originally posted by Boogley
What would we do about true criminals, child molesters and rapes etc. Wouldn't we have to have an institution to deal with them and prisons to house them in?

I think the idea is that in a resource based economy, since all of our individual needs would be met, no one would be left out. Being left out is what creates criminals in our current system. Also, media propaganda and subliminal messages contribute to mental instability in some people. I imagine that under the Venus Project, there would no longer be television and print media suited to the interest of greedy elites, because they will no longer exist.

reply to post by MamaChelle


Actually, I believe that one of the only true crimes left that would still occur under a resource based economy would be crimes of passion. That is one particular form of crime that would still continue regardless of the culture, albeit I believe extremely diminished.

Actually, I believe that one of the only true crimes left that would still occur under a resource based economy would be crimes of passion. That is one particular form of crime that would still continue regardless of the culture, albeit I believe extremely diminished.

Yes, I could see the potential for that. But I think relationships will also change when money isn't a factor anymore. There will be no "golddigging", women won't leave a man because another man with more money fancies her. Of course there will be other potential issues; this is just one example. But, I believe that on the whole, people will be more compassionate, understanding, and willing to listen to each other instead of fight about semantics and misunderstandings. What with all this digging for the truth folks seem to be doing, realizing how they've been lied to for so long by so many, perhaps honesty will become an honored value in our culture as well.

At least, that is what I hope to see.

Originally posted by Lightworth
Perhaps, along with technology replacing money as we know it, an entirely new currency can be created that would be used to purchase the more personalized-individualized items that people would create in their own free - gloriously, beautifully free - time. That currency, which would be printed by and the sole province of each individual nation's government (NOT a filthy-stinking cartel of private bankers) would be used to purchase the "finer things" while all the basic necessities (and probably more) will be covered by technology and higher, evolved enough thinking and morality.

And greed and selfishness rears it's ugly head again. There is no need for money/currency. This is how a good idea gets reverted back to the same old highly abused system we're talking about getting away from. So who gets to afford the finer things? Thats how it starts.

The "finer things" will be created by artists, artificers, musicians, designers etc.. etc... for the love of the creation process and to share their creations with others. Just like people who enjoy making houses will build houses for the sheer joy of knowing they have provided homes for people. There is no need for currency, at all. Most items, luxury or otherwise, will be created by individuals or collaborators who are just plain productive individuals, and that I am really happy to say is most of us. Even the worst jobs you can think of, there are people who will volunteer to do these, even if it's just on a rotational basis, because there are people among us who choose to shoulder such burdens. Technology would quickly accelerate to a point where even bad jobs become quite good.

The reality is this: nature has created us in such an amazingly balanced way that we can survive with abundance without money. It's in our genes. We went for thousands of years without it and we didn't even have the wheel. Imagine how well would do now!. It is just plain ironic that we choose to fight against balance.

Look at open source software as an example of how a system can work. When Microsoft crashes this coming week, you'll get a good chance to think about how you could go about safeguarding the longevity of a product. Open source can't crash. They're not in it for the money, there are no shares, no chance of bankruptcy, no chance of failing. Imagine then, if all those clever tech's working for Microsoft decided that rather than have their 401k's blown on outsourced development projects, that they worked with the open source guys instead. No company to crash which basically means the end of the products it provides. The best software in the world made by the worlds largest consortium of programmers. The product longevity is assured. Microsoft applications however will simply be forgotten in time.

ps: Microsoft may not crash this coming week, but there is a good chance it will happen soon ... err ... along with everything else

/end rant

The problem of crime will never be solved, not fully. It's a problem, face it, accept it, and accept in the fact that there are people willing to take this problem on no matter what type of society we build. There are people who see themselves as guardians and will fulfill those roles as they are required. Humans are pretty amazing. We tend to adapt extremely well and we are very resilient.

Have faith.

Before you go having faith in absolutely anything at all, have faith in yourself.

If everyone on the planet had faith in themselves. WOW! Imagine what we could do. We could attain our destiny sooner rather than later and venture forth to spread life onto other worlds that are presently being prepared to support intelligent mammalian lifeforms. That's what it's all about.

amazing video , its just a pity that we are all slaves fighting an invisible enemy, one day in my lifetime maybe we all will fight back , but i highly doubt it and i dont know what makes me feel more sick the unimaginable evil behind the monetary system or the lack of fight from slaves ...slaves that dont even know they are....WAKE UP!!!!!!! how much more can people take?

Amazing movie. It might have changed the way I look at the world! It connected so many loose threads for me, I watched the first Zeitgeits movie by mistake first, I reccomend that too for anyone that has not seen it.

Originally posted by ioweagle
describing a paper trail

it was there b4 comps

Yes, it was. The only difference was then actual paper had to be printed. Now they just type numbers into a computer. Whether the "credit unit" is accounted for in paper bills or electronic bits is irrelevant.

omg please, linking tottaly unrelated facts 1 after the other

I saw no linking of unrelated facts... Perhaps you can offer specifics? I suspect it is merely an inability on your part to grasp the connections.

ok i get the point, money doesnt matter, money doesnt exist.

it all goes back to the point, there was never any money

debt free only when we dont have money or it doesnt exist

cant take any more, please if i missed a big point tell me

The point is that ALL the economic system is debt-driven, not credit- (as in tangible pluses) driven. This is a very important point about our economic situation, and many don't grasp the importance of this distinction. Thus the care to describe it. Perhaps you still struggle to grasp its significance...?

and those are my notes i took before i could take no more. We are ruled by a system and the system involves money.

if you dont already realise this then you are done.

And, since you decided NOT to watch the whole... The POINT of the whole thing is that we can GET OUT of this System. If you close yourself off from the message (by refusing to hear it), then you are done.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by scientist
What about the revolution step? They conveniently left that entire step out, which seems to be the most important.

Really?

They made the assertion that the solution was simply for the people to stop contributing to the system.

and those currently holding power, would just allow this to happen nonchalantly? That part doesn't make any sense. What about when they tell you that being "off-the-grid" is a zoning violation, or that the seeds you are trying to grow in your backyard are patent violations, here's your summons.

Do you just tell them that money doesn't really exist, and neither do their laws? I personally believe that the current elite would have no qualms with imprisoning/exterminating/discrediting a majority of the population if they became under the slightest threat of exposure.

Don't get me wrong. The whole venus project sounds great as an alternative, but it also sounds way too naive for my taste. Communism sounds great when romanticized on paper too.

[edit on 5-10-2008 by scientist]

Originally posted by scientist Communism sounds great when romanticized on paper too.

From en.wikipedia.org...

Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production and property in general.

Communism, in theory, is actually a workable solution when it is not abused or misinterpreted.

The communist movement has attempted to produce a communist society by setting up political parties, which in some cases have become governments. These attempts have never produced a communist society, and have frequently led to totalitarian states.

This is why Communism is seen as an enemy to freedom and the people. Greed and corruption and a misunderstanding of the premise of Communism has altered public perception of what Communism is.

Originally posted by Truth07
Everything about the monetary system and renewal energy was good, until you get to the Venus Project. No laws, you don't have to work, you can have anything you want? Seems a little far-fetched to me.

Not so far-fetched to me. IF you have nothing you HAVE to do to survive, have all you need for what you WANT to do, your creativity is freed. With creativity freed, you will focus less on yourself and more on contributing something to this world, be it a happy disposition or a new technology or a beautiful painting.

The video only focused on money crime but leave out others like rape, killing out of rage, hit and run, etc.

I thought of these too, but realized that the film DID bring up crimes that are fostered by this debt-activated economy, and I realized that rape (which is about power, not sex), anger (rage), and other such crimes are driven by a sense of powerlessness. In a society that promotes freedom, provides for it, such crimes will be rare.

As for "hit and run..." LOL! If you have vehicles that will not permit hitting in the first place (as the film suggests), there will be nothing to run from.

This Venus project might work if every single person is pure and filled with love.

But you see... That is exactly what will be promoted. Rather than coming home from a day of work you hate, to be met by a family member that says the menu tonight is Ramen (again!) because there is nothing else you can afford, and all the stresses you have given that - which promote unhappiness, a sense of powerlessness, and even hatred of self and others... Instead, you will spend time with those you love, do things you love, don't have to deal with those you are unfond of, and otherwise can fill your life with love.

Sounds like heaven. I believe we will reach that state someday, but there will be a lot of prerequisites before that can happen. The movie makes it sound like you can jump to it immediately.

Sure, further technological advances are needed, and it will take time, but I say we are far closer to that than you may think. With the "tech curve" - the plotting of technological advances through history - moving exponentially upward (and estimated to hit virtual infinity in 2012), we are at the brink as we type.

And what's up with the bashing of religions? Now if it was focuses on organized religion, that would be a different story. But to go and say that all the teachings of Jesus and Buddha are meaningless is going too far.

It did NOT bash teachings. In fact, I thought it was pretty clear that the basic teachings (the Golden Rule) were solid and found throughout the religions of the world. What is "bashed" is any divisive dogma (i.e., MY religion is the TRUE one, and I can kill you if you don't believe as *I* do).

It said that Love - of ourselves and one another - could be called "Spirituality." Any doctrine that promotes that (without segregating people) is the true "religion."

Overall, this movie was great with some things that shouldn't have been included.

And I think it is VITAL that they were included. Because anything that separates us is counter to a symbiotic oneness. The whole point of this film was to engage our thinking in terms on a whole. If major issues of fragmentation are NOT addressed, then the path is NOT clear for the change that we need to get to...as you said...Heaven.

[edit on 10/5/2008 by Amaterasu]

I liked the first Zeitgeist. But the second one affected me even stronger, the ending was so sad it made me cry. I ask myself how much time is left till the US economics totaly colapses and how this will effect the country i live in - Lithuania. Currently i'm thinking about migration to Germany because my mom lives there. But is it worth it?

[edit on 5-10-2008 by semtexas]

Originally posted by ioweagle
reply to post by Kryties

 

im happy you took the time to reply to my short observation of the film. Although i find the use of "spout off so sanctimoniously " a little harsh.

If, as you obviously did follow my flimsy note taking then you would certainly conclude that my opinion of this film was taken from a very small (1/12th) peice of the film.

At this moment i still think what i think and if that is upsetting to you i apppologise, i will however whatch the film in its entirety tomorrow and see if my opinion changes.


My opinion at the moment is that it is a very simple fact that will be overstated and taken far to far.

I would appreciate if you could also supply me with an idea of how the world would work or exist without money either in the past future or maybe even tomorrow?

i maybe indeed be ignorant but for you to call me so is extremely presumptuos on your part and laughable.

(not editing for spelling or punctuation)

Mr Fresco explains that as more and more processes are automated by machines the benefit of this should be for ALL of mankind not the current system, which results in increased profits for the rich and unemployment for the working class, this will only lead to increased social strife and ever increasing crime. If humanity was released from this sytem of debt servitude, we could all work to improve ourselves for the advancement of humanity. In this system we would truely be our brothers keeper, school age children would be taught to develop their tallents to their zenith, the "incentive" would be the betterment of mankind and the quest for knowledge. If the world was united under a system like this we would already be on our way to the stars, because in reality our progress is being stymied by the current system where you have a few at the top that demand the their bootheels be licked.

Sigh...

Typical far left socialist propaganda.

I'll take our progressing capitalist society any day over communism.