Zeitgeist Addendum Released

reply to post by OneNationUnder

Pretty soon the people who believe in God, Allah, etc. will be seen as the ones who are disrupting harmony & peace on earth & there's gonna be a holocaust that is gonna make Hitler's look like a friggin' carnival game.

That is exactly what I fear.

From the start of watching that film I believed everything. But afterward I felt that something is wrong with the whole idea. For some reason it looked to my like something the New World Order would implement. A one world government, where are the religious people are exterminated

Originally posted by Saidar
Let's get one thing straight here. I'm not defending Christianity here. Like a philosopher I'm open to ALL points of view. I feel that that video is trying to tell us that religion is bad for humanity. I don't agree with that.

ANY religion that is divisive - as in, Our religion is the ONLY truth and yours is evil, or that says men are better than women (or vice versa), or that says gays are evil, or that says this color of skin is better than that, or that says we must war against ANY group, or that says THIS group is "chosen" - ANY religion that is divisive is bad for humanity.

If a religion asserts that we are all one, that LOVE is the ONLY pathway of salvation, that others don't HAVE to believe it, that says it is NOT the ONLY truth, that says that Peace is more valuable than anything but LOVE, and that War is Never, ever, ever the answer... THAT religion is not bad for humanity.

Lets me ask you people something. Where did stuff like values come from?

Observation and wisdom. If you kill everyone around you, there is no support for you. If you love and cherish those around you, there is great support. One does NOT need religion to have values, nor did values arise out of religion. In fact, I suspect religion arose greatly out of values.

You are cart-before-the-horse-ing.

As yourself this if the founding fathers of USA were not Christians how would your country be today? How was the country then?

Actually there is plenty of evidence to support the fact that many were Deists. They understood the divisiveness of most religions, and worked to remove it from the political arena.

The New Testament changes everything. God loved his Creation so much that he couldn't bare see them die and suffer for eternity, that is why he sacrificed his Son for our salvation.

Now... Why would he change things? What is the reason, do you suppose? I mean, didn't he love his creation back in the day? Why didn't he just send his Son down on the Sixth day? Love us right from the get-go? Instead of killing us, and choosing people, and fomenting hate for those that didn't see eye to eye with "his" people?

And why did he need his son to come, rather than just forgiving us himself? Really, I never understood this. Just throw up his hands, say, "I love you all unconditionally and forgive you regardless of what you choose."

Nope, he sent his son, and then said, if you don't believe in my son, I WON'T give you love (setting a condition for his love) and will torment you forever.

Frankly, he sounds a bit arbitrary and egotistical.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

An interesting passage, that. If Jesus was the son of god, who were these other sons of god? Why weren't THEY sacrificing themselves for our "sins?" Why were they mating with daughters of...Man??? Actually, I take this as evidence that "God" was an extraterrestrial. So were his sons. Man was a genetically manipulated creation and were sexually attractive to the ET's, as humans were indeed formed in part of the DNA of the Gods, "in their image," as it were. (Read The Terra Papers linked in my sig.)

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Wow. I wonder what thoughts these were that God observed. Is there ANYONE we can say ALWAYS has evil thoughts? I guess it depends on how one defines evil...like protecting oneself and one's family against a god that demands worship and tribute to his priesthood, for example. If I was an egotistical god, *I* would define that as "evil!"

So unless we have a better view of what these thoughts were, why would we presume they had no basis in good intent? That god's definition of "evil" was not self-serving?

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Is god saying he made a mistake...? He regretted making us (trying to reconcile that with his so loving us...)!

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Yep. He is saying he made a mistake, and spitefully chooses to eliminate his mistake. Sounds more like an egotistical ET with each step.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Wow. One man - who is allowed to keep his family, too (even though they were part of this creation he regretted...). I do believe there were two Lords - one that wanted to get rid of the creation of the other, and the other tried to spare his creation by helping a few of them survive the tantrum of the first.

But the "one god only" perspective was very useful in controlling and dividing people...

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Perfect in his generations... That would mean we all descended from him and are perfect, too. Therefore there was no need of a son being sent to "save" us... We were already perfect.

Some kind of hybrid culture was starting to form on the planet, an evil one. Like the passage says, some kind of unknown beings started to taint His creation, made it even more evil than it was.

Some kind of unknown beings!?! First, God is in control, n'est pas? Why didn't he get rid of the "unknown beings?" Second, it sounds as if it was his SONS that were these "unknown beings." Third, rather than kill them all, why didn't he, being so powerful and all, merely appear to each one and tell them the straight scoop? How lazy, evil and vile is it to just kill all these that he "so loved...?"

You guys have to understand that everything before the flood was different from what we see as reality today.

Why?

You cannot question someone's actions in those days because we have no idea what it was like in those days.

You cannot question god and his love in those days? Are you saying that LOVE has changed? Are you saying that the definition of evil has changed? Are you saying god has changed? Given that we have written accounts from long before the Bible was written, from Sumeria and such... Why did things seem pretty much like today as far as human behavior is concerned, yet it was "so different" then?

And frankly, I can question EVERYTHING.

What is sadistic? Sadistic is relative to your values and beliefs! It's not constant! In those days people's views on life were DIFFERENT. What makes you think Abraham found it sadistic? You have to understand that that time was a LOOOOOOOONG time ago, people's view on life were different, not as we perceive things today.

Wait, wait, wait. So VALUES change. So...why not religion? So god is at the whim of our values, whatever they are in current form? So what was a sin then might not be one now? And what is a sin now might not be in the future? So how are we to know when things have changed? How do we know what god considers sin today (haven't heard much from him in a while...)?

So god's definitions of evil and good are dependent on people's views?

Oh, c'mon now. He really IS turning up to be flakey, don't you think?

And by the way no one needs to fear God, if you don't like him tell him you don't like Him, he won't zap you with lighting from above ok? If you don't like the way He handles things tell Him you don't like it!
People make other people fear God for their own gain, not God!

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I could have sworn that the Bible instructs one to fear god... So if one has no need to fear god, then the Bible is wrong. And if the Bible is wrong.....

Darling, I think you need a bit of critical thinking lessons.

[edit on 10/6/2008 by Amaterasu]

That last post was wonderful. Thank you. I read the entire bible starting at 10, and though Jesus shone beautifully, I was repulsed by the scriptures. That God terrified me. I believe, that the book of Enoch, related to the bible, and alluded to in it, is allegorical, as is the scriptures, for et involvement on earth, not to be mistaken for the real God/Creator/Ism of the the universe. The actual God connection we all have is to the the hidden/peaceful/infinitely intelligent/ real God. However no one will win by arguing who is right with religion. The main point is, a new society must enshrine our equality regardless of sex, age, gender, sexual orientation, racial origins, and health (ie. disabled people have rights too). Religion should be a private matter that is never enshrined into governing principles. Sharia law and the Crusades all violate this. But if all the faiths become moderate and modern and civilized and upgraded and non-secular, ie. not apart of courts and government, the world may see peace! Imagine. And not at the expense of women, the elderly, homosexuals, children being mistreated and limited, or the disabled, or any particular race. Imagine. This is needed.

Originally posted by Manawydan

Seeing how both his movies are free of charge, downloadable and shareable I don't think there really is an Agenda to all this but to simply raise public awareness.

The video is excellent. It definitely raises valid point, as did the first Zeitgeist. But I'm weary of them because they don't mention anything about the evils of Communism or of Nazism. Nor does it say anything about the history of 20th century Islamofascism, and it's connections to Communism and Nazism. (via Mufti Hussieni and his nephew Arafat)

But the premise is accurate. There is enough technological to fix all the problems of the world. Yes, the corporate elites want to preserve the status quo and not allow any substantial change in energy infrastructures. Yes, this is evil. But not anymore evil than all the other manmade "ism" ideologies that pretend to have the formula of utopia, especially the atheistic, anti-religion kind.

Originally posted by Matrix1111
Nor does it say anything about the history of 20th century Islamofascism, and it's connections to Communism and Nazism. (via Mufti Hussieni and his nephew Arafat)

A valid point I agree. There are absolutely far too many man-made "ism"s that flat out handicap us as a species collectively. Maybe that's the reason they're unmentioned in the movie? Sheer volume. Moreover, some "ism"s have been so well documented that there would really be no point in raising them as a subject.

Originally posted by Saidar
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

In fact that's the problem with the Bible. But it's not the Bible's fault is it? It's the people reading it's fault. To understand the Bible you must STUDY it not scan through it.

If I were to follow your logic here, everyone who STUDIED the Bible would conclude the same thing. In fact, scholars throughout the ages have argued point after point after point - to no resolution. Those who want to believe one way believe that way. Those who want to believe another way believe that other way.

And you are suggesting I HAVEN'T studied the Bible... How do you know I have not?

Because a true education is not available - one that allows them to pursue as interests them, the opportunity to find their bliss is lacking therefore, and what IS available often is NOT what's needed to follow thier bliss. It's not tools but simply material creppola.

True. But how do you invent an educational system that no kid on earth finds boring? Think it's possible?

Absolutely. Let the child direct their learning. Offer many choices, but let the child decide. Not only is this self-empowering, it is interest-guided. I can assure you that kids will learn the basics when they see an application for them.

I did not know my addition and subtraction tables (though they TRIED to teach me!) until I was in banking and discovered a use for them - it was easier to do the math in my head than get up and go to the adding machine (back then there were three full-key adding machines in the branch - but I date myself. LOL!).

So when they discover they have to learn to read to find out more about that which grasps their attention...they will learn to read.

Forcing an education on a child seldom works and creates resentment.

Glad I made you laugh. I don't watch TV so don't think I am.

Do you...watch American movies? Go to American commercial sites? Get American MSM news in any way? All is geared to promote materialism, and depicts the "average" teen here as irresponsible, thing-grubbing, pizza-ordering, partying individual. But I can look around me and see that this is a very superficial image of teens overall. Especially inner city kids and other poverty-stricken kids - which are most of them, these days.

I've been to New York and it amazed me how rich Americans are.

Hmmm. Did you visit Times Square? Rockefeller Plaza? All the music halls and churches? Yeah, they are a great facade. Go a few blocks this way or that, into the slums that sprawl across the landscape, hidden by the flashy skyscrapers and Manhattan businesses... There you will see the TRUE New Yorkers.

For every one person you saw, all rich and such, there were 99 who weren't sure where their next meal was coming from. Or at least were very concerned about how long they could go without having to worry about where it was coming from.

Yeah, dude. THEY propagate the American Good Time myth worldwide. But it IS a myth. It just ain't so.

If you want to see people trying to make a living come to Africa, that is people not having the chance to follow their own bliss.

Oh, I'm not saying there are no places worse. But that is not the point. The point is that people, IF THEY HAVE THE TOOLS to follow their bliss, they WILL.

People living on less than a dollar a day. In my opinion and what I've seen a large amount of America's population is middle class.

How long has it been since you were here? There is no middle class left here. It's a few Elite, a handful of reasonably well-to-do, and then it's the ones who worry about how long it will be before they have to worry about where the next meal will come from and those who are already worrying about where it will come from.

By the way, I would like you to defend the idea, in South Africa people perceive the average American to be really stupid and uninformed. Is this true? Is the media making people stupid over there?

I would say the same percentage of Americans are stupid as in SA. As for "uninformed..." One can hardly fault another for failing to have information actively and deliberately withheld from them, eh? And so, yes, many are malinformed, having been taught to trust a media that has been taken over and feeds lies and half-truths to them.

That is changing now, with the internet. But it is not something that one can snap one's fingers and have everyone enlightened to the truth. It is a process, but one that is gaining momentum.

And frankly... If one's bliss is to get drunk, have sex, and party all the time... If one is not needed in the slave labor pool and all the requirements to do that are handy... Who is anyone else to judge?

My problem exactly, that is in fact most people's bliss! To do exactly that. I don't think that's very constructive when it comes to society.

WHAT!?! I can't tell you how many bumper stickers I have seen that say "I'd rather be [fill in the blank with things like "fishing," "dancing," "hiking," "quilting," "reading," "painting," "racing," "camping," "sculpting," "programming," "teaching," "traveling," "hunting," "thinking," "writing," "playing the piano," "hugging my kid," ad infinitum].

You are presuming that people will want to do THAT even with abundance of opportunity to do ANYTHING else they might want to do because that is what they choose now. The reason they choose that now is, of course, because that is all they can afford.

But even that is beside the point. The point is, IF that is exactly their bliss (and I assure you, I personally don't know a soul in that situation that has not said, "I wish I could [do something they can't afford, have no access to, or have no time for]") - IF they find their bliss in getting drunk, havinge sex, and partying all the time, over any other activity there is to do... Why, if robots are doing all "work," should anyone care?

Why would anyone feel it is necessary to change that person's behavior? They're happy, and you can go off and find your own happiness, leaving them to theirs.

Only because slave labor is needed. If all such labor can be handed to a robot, bliss is what will keep us alive. AND we won't see suppression of technology because no profit will threatened. (Oh, I cannot tell you how much tech has been suppressed!)

Wonder how lazy humanity will be after 200 years of robots doing everything.

Who gets to define what "laziness" is? Is it writing a song? Is it climbing a mountain? Is it traveling the world? Is it creating a video game? Is it playing a video game? Is it going on a walk? Is it collecting stamps? Is it dancing? Is it tinkering with things? Is it going out to a social scene? Is it watching TV? Is it doing research? Is it contemplating the Universe?

What is "laziness" when there is nothing a human HAS to do?

Like I said watch WallE a good example, very funny movie indeed

Got a link?

Well then. What else do you take reward from? What if you could take reward all the time from that else? What if you knew that you would be fed, clothed, housed comfortably, cleanly and fully, while you were taking that reward?

I believe that your hard work should equal what you get out of live? Of course capitalism won't allow that. That is not enslavement it's about not being lazy

And that is an answer to my question how? I believe that if we don't HAVE to slave...er...work, then we can strive for higher things. Not only that, but we WILL strive for higher things. Work (slavehood) is holding humankind back.

Again... Define "lazy." (Oh, and while you're at it, explain why that is a problem in a society where everyone has all they need and want...)

About the "we are not getting better", my lecturer in biochemistry told me that about two years ago, I'll look up on his papers that he researched.

Cool. Looking forward to the data.

Some folks may need to understand that globalization is inevitable. We are all one species on one finite planet. Neo-liberal globalization is certainly pure evil.

I am now in support of, and will work very hard at supporting, the Venus Project.

Jacque Fresco is a genius, pure and simple. "Zeitgeist Addendum" is for folks who aren't already as "up-to-speed" as most people on this website already are.

Look into the Venus Project. Listen to the podcasts, listen to Jacque Fresco, allow your imagination to go outside of your box. This movie couldn't have come out any sooner, the timing is perfect. We all need a direction, and this movie and movement offers a positive solution.

I support The Venus Project.

reply to post by Amaterasu

So now let's evaluate each verse, and what it is saying- Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, This verse is straightforward. The human population on earth began to increase in numbers. Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Now this verse is full of meaning. Some will point to Job 1:6, 2:1 and 38:7 where the same phrase "sons of God" is translated sometimes as angels, and conclude that this also refers to angels as well. The Hebrew words used are - ben: H1121 and 'elohiym: H430: 1121. ben, bane; from H1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of lit. and fig. relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., [like H1, H251, etc.]) ... So the phrase "Sons of God" is a generic term that can mean the subjects or nation of God. It is not a phrase limited to just the angelic host, it has a wider meaning. The sons of God in Gen 6:2, in context, speaks of those men who were (or claimed to be) obedient to the will of God, they were the people of God, from the lineage of Seth (Gen. 5). In opposition to this are the daughters of men (not obedient to God), from the lineage of Cain (Gen. 4). These woman were quite attractive and alluring, and had little trouble enticing the sons of God into intimate relations and marriage. In doing so, the sons of God quickly abandoned God for these women and their ways.

Rest of the article


This article should answer most of your answers. Please read it

Guys I think we must stop talking religion right now, maybe I'll create a thread later and we can discuss the things. The creator of the thread did not meant it to be a religious debate I think.

Thanks

Another person ahead of his time:

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Saidar

Cool I look forward to your thread creation. I hope you title it to reflect your original assertion i.e The Bible does not encourage one to kill. I say this because I see that when given some examples you retorted with the expected "but the New Testament changed all that". If that is your positions you should have originally said "The Bible does encourage one to kill, but it's in the OT and not the NT". Granted, you said earlier the Bible was both old and new testament and one could not be understood without the other Anyways, I look forward to that thread.

This whole movement can't happen without me forsaking God and my faith? (it doesn't affect anyone don't understand why I should stop believing in God)

If it doesn't affect anyone it would be a non-issue. If it affected people in a positive way it would be a good thing. I see no issue with a taoist priest in my Utopia

I think this film was specifically talking about orthodox religions. The mainstream Churches. And I would agree completely, as I think the world would be much better if they were all gone. They are the source of so much prejudice and intolerance. As another member was saying, they cause divisiveness, whereas this movie is about unity.

reply to post by xsagex
No,those were wars to protect Military/Industrial complex's interests,do some research,oh wait that wolud asking to much from a flag waver like,you who when any alternative to this system we are in is sugested you whine about the phoney left/right illuision.

Flag!!! Excellent, though a bit long...eh, lot's to get out in a short time...perfect timing, and excellent compliment to this Jordan Maxwell book I'm reading...will have to look into the Venus project...

first half about the banking system and the money supply was great.

ill give that part


the next part while a good thought...i had to stop myself from inducing


overall:B

reply to post by Saidar


You don't have to put aside your belief in God. I don't want to get off topic here though so I'll try to make this brief.

There was a Creator before the Bible was put 'together' by man. If the Bible was the official word of God, it would not have been interpreted so many ways. There are now over 256 denominations among Christianity alone.

The Sun God begot Hinduism of which begot Buddhism of which begot Taosim of which begot Confusionism of which bit and parcel of many religions begot Judaism of which begot Christianity of which begot Islam of which begot etc. etc. Its evolution of thought. People are evolving as they are designed to both physically and mentally.

We are to achieve more insight if we seek it. Seek and ye shall find is a truth in and of itself. Truth is self-evident by design though so few seek it for they are too caught up in the 'system' of which was designed to create a top down caste system of political structure resulting in a 'ruling' class over a serf class.

This does not serve humanity as a whole and is a violation to human nature and the laws of which we are to abide by; human natural law. No human being will find real satisfaction in this environment of which, by design, divides and conquers the collective heart and mind of man.

The written laws, our 'Statutory' legal system was designed to protect and serve the ruling class. They are in reality above the law more than the public is aware. They own judges, own the worlds largest law firms to protect 'their' interests at the expense of the constituants. The Bill of Rights and the US Constitution has been hijacked and new legislation has been pushed forward via false flag operations, disinformation, payoffs, blackmail, assassinations etc..

The international banskster cartel of whom own the banks mentioned in the zeitgeist film will stop at nothing to create a NWO. Rothschild, Rockefeller, Morgan, Warburg and a few others have been working on this for over 200 years. They now own half the worlds assets and are continuing to consolidate the bankrupted banks here in America that they bankrupted in the first place by 'design'. It was a carefully calculated scheme from inception though due to the internet they have been exposed. That is what they fear the most.

When the world at large begins to understand what has transpired in the past, present, as well as their plans for the future, their 'system' will crash and a new mode of existence will prevail with a new appreciation and dependency on Nature, of which is our Creator's creation will evolve.

We must spread the message. Thousands of people will die tomorrow and every other day of the year in continuum in our current 'system'. Hold on for tomorrow, it will be a 'brighter' day.

Do what you can now by removing your money from these banksters banks. These banks will be your children's and their children's master if you don't change 'your' world.

The Zeitgeist movie involves a large consortium of peoples of the world who realize the necessity of change is no longer a desire but essential if we as a people as well as the Earth itself is to survive.



[edit on 6-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

On another note, the Revolution will not take place without a fight. The people will prevail though the 'international bankster class', the true trillionare elite will not go down without a fight.

We will be in severe depression from here forward. There is no way out. This was by design. All you can do is be prepared before the 'storm'.

Consider the following. I have been getting prepared now for 3 years. I used to be an active stock, commodity and precious metals trader and therefor saw this going on long before the masses.

Do what you must though I did the following:

Bought land to till. All a family needs is 10 acres.

Buy three months food supply. They sell 3 month food buckets now at Costco. Costco knows whats to come.

Buy weapons and ammunition to defend yourself in the impending chaos.

Buy medical kits.

Buy 3 months of water.

Get far away from the cities and elevations lower than around 400 feet elevation.

Buy gold and silver and keep in a personal safe in a safe location. Paper currencies will be useless in the near future. Gold and silver has always had value in and of themselves and are the safest investment from inflation.

These are the basics though everyone has special needs.

Just be prepared from here forward and take care.









[edit on 6-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

Originally posted by Saidar
Guys I think we must stop talking religion right now, maybe I'll create a thread later and we can discuss the things. The creator of the thread did not meant it to be a religious debate I think.

Thanks

Well... The only reason it devolved into a discussion about religion is because you are contending (it would seem) that there is no divisiveness in the Bible, and I contend that not only is there divisiveness, but a primary one (i.e., saying it is the "one true" religion and all others are abominations to God).

This aspect is on topic.

As far as the page you offered me, I understand that some scholars have come to those interpretations. And some of the interpretations may be close to what the original writer had in mind. (I do wonder why the translators chose the words THEY did...)

But the thing is that on many an issue there are a number of views as to the "real" meaning. For example, the word in Latin used to describe Mary is "virgo," which, in Latin, means "young woman." It is translated often as "virgin," but it has been pointed out that in Latin, a virgin would be referred to as "virgo intacta."

So I read the interpretations there and compare them with many other interpretations, all done by people who have a view and want the words to mean what they believe, and I just cannot state that STUDY of the Bible necessarily leads to the right conclusion, since scholars differ so very much on so many points.

[shrug]

Anyway, we will leave the Biblical meanings of verse to another thread and try to constrain ourselves to the Bible and other religious works as they relate to dividing the people of this earth as opposed to bringing them together.

Originally posted by abelievingskeptic
first half about the banking system and the money supply was great.

ill give that part

the next part while a good thought...i had to stop myself from inducing

overall:B

Ok, I'll bite. Just what specifically did you dislike?

I mean, do you think it won't work? I can assure you it can. So where is your issue?

Overall I enjoyed this video. The more I reflected on it though, the more I saw it as a little bait and switch. They get you in with the whole, money is evil thing, then try to sell the whole Venus Project thing with an anti-religion chaser. I agree with and liked the presentation on the money part. I don't really see the point of going all into the sci-fi fantasy bit. The only way I could see technology being able to contribute towards that goal is if replicators, transporters, faster than aircraft travel and a much higher level of medical care existed. Even then, you cannot avoid the human aspect. If people were given all their needs and were able to do whatever they want, there are always going to be those who want power.

reply to post by evolutionz


About your last statement about people not having anything to lose for experimenting and such... this is true with new thinking separate from how we were taught to think... New incentives will be created as we move forward in time (if this all actually happens). We're all raised to be the "better" athlete, student etc, but imagine if we're all raised to...(expample "compete" to find the solution to an issue which will better our understanding of something, or to create a new technological finding which evolves our understanding even more...

I hope the Q's and A's from the release are put up on the net at some point soon... There were many people asking all the questions that are mentioned on the forums, and were answered very intelligently.

In my opinion, even if the system isn't rid of, why in the hell wouldn't we want clean, free energy anyway? No burning of fossil fuels is key...