Zeitgeist Addendum Released

Originally posted by mystiq
The reality is, just as in the native resource societies, there would be some shared work. We do need mechanics, technicians, some specific labor. Houses do not build themselves yet. Things would have to be shared, but at much less hours per week for the able bodied.
Perhaps with so many people, only 5 hours a week would suffice. We would have much time for our passions and our families, and even educations. Contributing the things that interest us the most from our talents in an open-source manner to the world, freely giving and taking.

Im sorry but this just isnt true. Most companies couldnt afford to refit every place of business with a robot yet. Thats the problem that was raised in the film. We CAN build robots that could build houses, but theres the cost issue. Is the cost more than the profit the business will turn.. Again, greed is the enemy. We can build all kinds of robots that do complicated actions, but we cant build a robot that can clean a toilet or pump gas? Like the film showed, the areas that are able to be filled by machines are either done or slowly headed that way.

I'm not sure how advanced our robotics is yet myself. I believe we would still need to participate in some of the work, but on a greatly reduced rate. And houses shouldn't be done the standard way which is causing deforestation. Earthship homes, and cob homes, and alternate building, with solar and wind and greenhouses, done together like the Bali's do with their roof raising for their citizens is the most probable way new resource based communities would need to go. Who knows what the future will bring though. I still think we will need to plunge our toilets for a while too!

But the point is this is a moneyless society. The cost is not in terms of capital, but in terms of shared resources.

[edit on 5-10-2008 by mystiq]

I don't think we would have to clean the toilets anymore im sure someone who's smart enough and pissed off enough about cleaning toilets will develop self cleaning toilets. Share the design on the net and then our technicians will install it.

Where is the profit you ask where is the incentive, who will pay for the materials....... your thinking is conditioned.

There is no profit, the incentive is that you've created something that benefits you. So now you don't have to waste time cleaning the toilet anymore. Then you share the design with people and you get that bliss feeling knowing others are using your design and benefiting from it. Its like when you start a thread on here and heaps of people read it, star and flag it. There is no money or profit involved in that, but that does not mean there is no incentive? The incentive is the joy from sharing and copying.

We are built to share and copy, its natural.

I'm incredibly glad that resource based economy was explored in addendum. I think people mistook the Venus Project being used as an example of a resource based economy in the film as some sort of free plug for the think tank. I'm also glad that there are smart people sitting around thinking of better social systems than democracy.

People harp on about how communism works in theory, well the same goes for democracy unless you care to argue that democracy is working at the moment?

I find it funny all the contention towards The Venus Project, "its socialism, it will never work." This just goes to show you the power of propaganda, its my guess most of the objectors are yanks purely because they were the most propagandized on this subject. You guys dont seem to mind working hard and paying taxes so firefighters can protect you and your homes from fire, yet this is inherently socialist. Where is the profit or incentive in firefighting?

reply to post by Question Fate and to mystiq


What we must remember is that the tech curve - the plot of technological advances through history - is moving upward exponentially and is plotted to go effectively infinite in 2012 (rather interesting, that, I think).

With "infinite" tech development...and this will include free energy...and the ability to transmute elements...

We could see all this happen in a very few years.

I suggest you read my story that would explain this (written a couple of years ago, but paralleling this Zeitgeist movie rather closely) here:

www.frontsoft.com...

As I watched this, I was amazed at how closely my vision and the makers of the film's vision coincided.

Originally posted by Amaterasu

www.frontsoft.com...

Great read i recommend giving Wade Frazier's site www.ahealedplanet.net... a peruse.

I just got finished watching the film and was very impressed. I thought this Addendum was a stronger film than the first Zeitgeist. The ideas presented are all out there already from different sources, but this video does a good job of bringing them together. There are so many people working on this problem now (the problem of a growing global crisis) that it makes one very hopeful.

I just wanted to sound a warning note. In Barbara Tuchman's book The Proud Tower, which talks about the period just before the first world war, she makes the point that the world still went to war despite the presense of a large international peace movement and a large transnational labor movement. The call to nationalist loyalty was geater than those very large forces for peace. Does the call to nationalism create a Pavlovian response in your neighborhood?

The great thing about this video to me came at the end. The call to stop cooperating with the fascist controllers of the state. The idea of boycotting the banks associated with the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in particular, is worth serious consideration. Unfortunately, one can't send "messages" to these people. They don't respond well to simple communication. I'm afraid that fact is destined to be a very sad and traumatic thing for everyone.

Personally I turned this piece of propaganda off when it started comparing a company firing an employee because of new, automated machines to a company which illegally dumps toxic waste in the nature. That they somehow shared the same evil reason for doing this - money/greed/power.

Just so freaking ridiculous. I'd recommend any of you who buy into this nonsense to visit Eastern Europe and see how they feel about joining the European Union for instance. Oh, but they must be crazy right? Not to want to do manual labor a la the 1900 century with horses. Not have machinery to get proper clean water or to take care of their crops. Or go tell it to a poor chinese, that it's a waste of time spending their hard earned money trying to get an education for their child. Why would he/she need it - we don't need new machines because, oh my, they can replace people..

He also spouts these random numbers claiming that the world is in fact WORSE off today than it was, say 50 years ago. This is just beyond clueless and I need only to look at my own country (Sweden) to know this isn't true (but in general NO stats will tell you this..unless we are dealing with say eco/nature). Then again we land in somewhat of a moment 22 when it comes to dealing with these statistics because most of them are produced by, what in his eyes seem to be pure evil.

This doesnt seem to bother him much though.

It's somewhat bizarre that he on one hand is claiming that the world bank is the equivalence of an altar of Satan and on the other hand quoting their stats for how many people there are in the world living on less than a dollar a day. If I were him I wouldn't believe anything the world bank had to say.

Sheesh. The first one was intriguing. This was for the most part utter #.

Imagine how many postal workers lost their jobs for me to write this.

reply to post by Amaterasu

Sure it does. It says it is right and all others are wrong. Over half (closer to virtually all) the wars fought have been over religion, with the Bible particularly used to justify taking out the "heathen."

Dude, did you ever read the Bible? Those were was definitely not justified by the Bible. In fact the Bible teaches to love you enemies and never to kill. What you just said is not what the Bible teaches.

Does that explain the Crusades? The Inquisition? The witch hunts? The torturing of scientists (or other coercion) to recant ideas like the earth goes around the sun? Seems the Bible is open to interpretation for justifying stagnation, poverty, primitiveness, lack of creativity, war, hate (Oh, God Hates Fags! ), and slavery...

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

What happened in the medieval ages was totally AGAINST the Bible! In fact the Bible commands us to give our earnings and hard work to the poor and everyone around us! Dude, please don't insult the Bible if you haven't read it yet. I really think you are a smart person but don't think you read the whole Bible yet.

It's all about following one's bliss.

I know what you are talking about in fact I'm also following my path of self satisfaction right now, by studying one of the most difficult professions in my country, and not expecting good payment. I do it fort the love of it.
But you see, not everyone's bliss is towards a better civilization. Let's take a look at the American youth. Most of the teenagers in USA got everything they need to survive and lots and lots more. Why don't they take the opportunity to do what they want to one day? They have every opportunity, huge universities, homeschooling available, all the money in the world etc, but most of the teenagers choose to drink themselves to death, humping each other like bunnies in spring and only to party all the time. Don't you think that's going to happen when everyone starts to notice they don't have to work anymore to make a living? Labour is what keeps our humanity alive.

Watch the movie WallE, very funny

If you only feel rewarded from getting paid, I feel very sorry for you. When people follow their bliss, the following is all the reward they need. Many get more reward from a "thank you" than from a paycheck.

You don't have to feel sorry for me, I'm not like that

I recommend you look into the study of Complexity and Chaos Theory. LIFE is a biological mechanical device, and though the individual cells die, life ever progresses towards greater complexity, a higher order.

Oh yes dude, one of my math modules right now is chaos mathematics, really a b*tch. But you see, one cell, yes ONE CELL in a human body is more complex than anything that has ever been created by humans. Our human bodies have billions of cells working together. Achieving that kind of engineering, is in fact, right out impossible or going to take hundreds of years of research. And I'm not ignorant or something right now, that's the truth. And another thing, humans are not getting better. We are fading away. Another thousand years of breeding is going to increase genetic diseases, dna malfunctions etc. We are not getting "better", that is outright a lie told my humanistic believes, and any biochemist that studies genes and dna can tell you that. Genetic diseases, malfunctions, etc is on the rise.



Thanks for the conversation I love to talk about this stuf

Originally posted by Saidar

Dude, did you ever read the Bible? Those were was definitely not justified by the Bible. In fact the Bible teaches to love you enemies and never to kill. What you just said is not what the Bible teaches.

Dude... The friggin Bible says God himself killed many many humans. There is tons of killing and death in the Bible. Lots of conditions in which one is supposed to kill. Which one are you reading?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Originally posted by Saidar

Dude, did you ever read the Bible? Those were was definitely not justified by the Bible. In fact the Bible teaches to love you enemies and never to kill. What you just said is not what the Bible teaches.

Dude... The friggin Bible says God himself killed many many humans. There is tons of killing and death in the Bible. Lots of conditions in which one is supposed to kill. Which one are you reading?

LOL...killing is wrong and what does god do...caused a flood that killed basically everyone and everything on earth..

not a very good example to us is he..its no wonder humans are so flawed..their current god is a mad man...

Awesome movie, ill be joining the movement! =)

reply to post by alienesque


As well as that, it always struck me as somewhat sadistic that God asked Abraham to string up his son and sacrifice him. It is told as being a test of faith, but I find it sadistic to tell you the truth.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by alienesque

 

As well as that, it always struck me as somewhat sadistic that God asked Abraham to string up his son and sacrifice him. It is told as being a test of faith, but I find it sadistic to tell you the truth.

someone or something telling someone else to kill their son IS sadistic...its not something one can FIND sadistic...the religous just try and rationalize everything..change its meaning when it seems unkind...because they WANT to believe...fear is a powerful mind control mechanism..and religion is FULL of fear..

reply to post by alienesque


You are correct there. I used the word 'find' because, in essence, that was my opinion and I was avoiding having somebody assert that I was being self-righteous or whatnot.

I've been waiting for this video to come out for some time now.

The revolution has now begun.

Spread the word.

Life is fleeting.

A 'new' world is to come forth, indivisible and for the advancement of all to use their inherent abilities to provide for the advancement of the qualities of life among ourselves and that of our host planet.

We are our Brother's keeper as well as stewards to our domain; planet Earth. When we cross the domain of Earth and establish new words, a whole new revolution or advancement of mankind's mental evolution will emerge to bring forth a new 'existence' in harmony with nature with natural law as man's compass to a greater and more whole existence.

May we from here forward and forever more rely on our inherently endowed Sapience to discover jurisprudence as a guide for our conduct among one another as well as to our stewardship of the planet and it's resources.

Zeitgeist project

Venus Project

Awaken the giant within. Truth is self-evident if we 'choose' to seek it.

Peace Brethren.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

Let's get one thing straight here. I'm not defending Christianity here. Like a philosopher I'm open to ALL points of view. I feel that that video is trying to tell us that religion is bad for humanity. I don't agree with that. Lets me ask you people something. Where did stuff like values come from? RELIGION! As yourself this if the founding fathers of USA were not Christians how would your country be today? How was the country then?

The New Testament changes everything. God loved his Creation so much that he couldn't bare see them die and suffer for eternity, that is why he sacrificed his Son for our salvation.

Lots of conditions in which one is supposed to kill.

Really? Tell me more...

LOL...killing is wrong and what does god do...caused a flood that killed basically everyone and everything on earth.. not a very good example to us is he..its no wonder humans are so flawed..their current god is a mad man...

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Some kind of hybrid culture was starting to form on the planet, an evil one. Like the passage says, some kind of unknown beings started to taint His creation, made it even more evil than it was. You guys have to understand that everything before the flood was different from what we see as reality today. You cannot question someone's actions in those days because we have no idea what it was like in those days.

As well as that, it always struck me as somewhat sadistic that God asked Abraham to string up his son and sacrifice him. It is told as being a test of faith, but I find it sadistic to tell you the truth.

What is sadistic? Sadistic is relative to your values and beliefs! It's not constant! In those days people's views on life were DIFFERENT. What makes you think Abraham found it sadistic? You have to understand that that time was a LOOOOOOOONG time ago, people's view on life were different, not as we perceive things today.

someone or something telling someone else to kill their son IS sadistic...its not something one can FIND sadistic...the religous just try and rationalize everything..change its meaning when it seems unkind...because they WANT to believe...fear is a powerful mind control mechanism..and religion is FULL of fear..

Like I said, what you see as sadistic and what the japanese see as sadistic is not the same. What makes you think your point if view is the correct one? Even more so for the people that lived thousands of years ago. Things were different.
And by the way no one needs to fear God, if you don't like him tell him you don't like Him, he won't zap you with lighting from above ok? If you don't like the way He handles things tell Him you don't like it!
People make other people fear God for their own gain, not God!

Sorry I forgot to say something:

LOL...killing is wrong and what does god do...caused a flood that killed basically everyone and everything on earth.. not a very good example to us is he..its no wonder humans are so flawed..their current god is a mad man...

The laws of the Bible, as it stands in Exodus 20, was written a long time after the flood. Before that time there were no laws! God had every right to kill people, there were no laws! Human beings could kill other human beings. There were no laws! Only evil and good

reply to post by Saidar


Did you know, first bible was written by judaisms. And from judaism left group what splitted two, islamic and christianity and from christianity splitted out one group too what was evangelic. So christians, evangelics, islamics are originally judaisms. Now today you keeping your hands bible version from 0.001 to version 2.00 or was it 2.01 or 2.02 version. I don't remember too much editions to in bible at in history, because someone said, this version is retarded, let's make better version, but all versions don't have really no sense, so they have failed their job. Only thing how they did get people in to religion was make FEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAARRRRR.........................

I hope zeitgeist movement will rise huge and over 90% population will join in. Ok, we need work hard to get people in. So working, working....

Brilliant movie...

JOIN the movement people....

Add to the snowball....

Let them know we mean business... and that don't mean business for profit either.

People, plans how to get people fastly and fastly much in, in this zeitgeist movement?

October 10 is close day, so we need figure some effective plans. This thread is good thread to planning because this is seen in first page, so people find in here. Some of my plans what could make people get fastly in and fastly much in.

1. We need different kind banners what we put different places, or we send them in email to everyone.

2. We go chats together so it not look like there's just one alone. We could meet maybe in Msn or some chat or somewhere where we then look next place where we go together then there. Everyone talking about Zeitgeist Addendum and suggest everyone join in Zeitgeist movement. We give link both sites so they will really some of them go watch that new Zeitgeist and get proof at Zeitgeist movement is really starting october 10.

3. We spreading Zeitgeist Addendum link to different forums, with Zeitgeist movement link.

4. We shout at the streets or somewhere WATCH ZEITGEIST ADDENDUM NOW! JOIN THE ZEITGEIST MOVEMENT! We can shout last words some "it starts october 10".

5. We make from ourselves moving banners.

6. Last plan is at we get these plans in the stage, in working and not just sitting at the corner waiting when someone get them use.

You can copy those plans to your website or anywhere where they could come in use to complete this Zeitgeist movement. But let's figure out more plans, because more plans is needed.