Massive financial bailout fails in the House

reply to post by pieman


Isn't China's economy almost exclusively based on manufacturing products for 1st world countries at a cheap price? If the US economy collapses, we would stop buying manufactured goods and businesses would stop getting credit. I'm pretty sure China would be screwed too if our economy went to the crapper.

Russia I'm sure would be affected as well. I don't support the bail out, but I think if the US collapses Russia and China wouldn't just experience a mild recession because our economies are linked. They hold just as much bad debt as any other US company

Edit to add:

China owns 10% of American debt, Japan 13%, Brazil 2%, all others 20%, the US 55%

The Yin and Yang of US debt

As of the middle of 2007, foreign investors held almost $5 trillion in US equities and foreign direct investment, almost $3 trillion of US corporate bonds and more than $2 trillion of US Treasury securities. Foreign ownership of US Agency securities, bonds and mortgage-backed securities (MBS) issued or backed by agencies such as Ginnie Mae, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac totaled just under $1.5 trillion. While the absolute amounts may be large, it’s the share held by foreign investors of total US securities outstanding that conveys the significance of these global financial flows.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Avenginggecko]

Originally posted by XTexan
What I meant was what would happen to my debt balance? Would it dissappear with the company? Or would it roll over to a new company/card? I understand credt cards will probably be useless very soon.

If it was bought out by another company, you would owe them.

To my understanding, if it just failed, your debt is called in, in full. You pay all of it now.

I don't really remember to be completely honest. I'll do some refresher research and let you know.

Usually it gets bought out because usually people with good credit are a positive asset to the company.

reply to post by TXMACHINEGUNDLR

Only a negative mindset considers losing internet and cell phones a bad thing. I could easily adapt to a new way of life without those or other so called luxury items. If I have to spend my discretionary income on basics and cut out luxuries, causing them to fail, oh well. Adapt to it and move on already.

I vote we let the chips fall where they may, and suffer the consequences by adapting to a new lifestyle. It is all of America's fault we are in this mess, for one reason or another. I say quit bailing out the crooks and banks that caused this problem, especially with our tax dollars. Let those who vote for the bailout pool their own money to finance it.

The thing that galls me most is the way we had barely a day to go over this huge bill, and let our voices be heard. It should be mandatory that if ya vote on a bill, you have to pass a test on what the bill contains. You have to actually have read this all important and allow your constituents to have had time to read and digest it too, SINCE WE ARE PAYING for it and all.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


you missed out a few key words there, china's economy is partly based around making cheap consumer goods for the first world. the goods that will be most in demand in a recession are the cheap goods. american goods are more expensive than chinese goods so the demand for american goods will fall further and quicker than the demand for chinese goods. because chinese goods cost so much less demand for them may even rise.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by pieman]

DOW -770.00

THATS the sound of things becoming more expensive.
NOW they tax you on the other end, get your chin slapped buckos'.

reply to post by Avenginggecko



China and Russia may be hoping for a bounce back economy so the US stays on top... this time.

After all the smoke settles and things 'appear' to be heading in the right direction, what are the countries that rely on the US going to do to prevent this in the future??

I believe we will see mild but effective drop outs or relocation's for the Foreign money invested in the US. Probably subtle at first so not to send off any signals, but eventually these guys will find alternatives to their current situation.

reply to post by Bunch


My only disagreement with you is the possiblility for change now. As a result of this crisis, people are paying attention now. This is the time for policy change talks. The crisis is fresh in peoples minds, we should put off the immediately collapse and see if we can motivate a policy change that may stop a collapse from happening, and just give us a nasty recession.

We have nothing to lose when you look at the big picture. After you get to a certain height, you reach Maximum damage. Your economy can get bigger, but a collapse is still total and completely damaging.

reply to post by Seekingmyself


Hey there" Chris Matheson has an AMAZING tutorial on economics. It's 20 parts on video and it really does cover it all. You can check it out at:

www.chrismartenson.com...

Originally posted by mental modulator

DOW -770.00

THATS the sound of things becoming more expensive.
NOW they tax you on the other end, get your chin slapped buckos'.

Americans are used to scare tactics. There have been no bank runs and very few people are buying guns. The people who did not get 700 billion have decided to sell their stocks. We should let them.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by eradown]

reply to post by mental modulator


I think the thing we should be keeping an eye one the value of the dollar.

We all knew that the stock market was going to tank, this is no more than an temper tantrum from investor who didn't go their wish. But the dollar hold strong today and thats a sign all these countries where betting on more U.S. debt.

No more debt = Stronger Dollar!! Gee I guess I dont need a PhD to figure that one out.

Ummm if the US goes down, no one escapes it. the entire global economy will tank. This sint 1929 anymore where one country is so isolated that it can disappear without affecting others....especially if said country is a major power. This is not just a US crisis...this is GLOBAL folks.

BTW...wat is the current position of the credt-card companies..
wat if they can't get recourses anymoore...

reply to post by grimreaper797


Thanks for the info Grim.

On Topic:

I just saw this news report:

McCain blames democrats for bailout defeat

What is he trying to accomplish here? First off it was a joint venture between Dems and Reps that defeated this Bill. Secondly, to the best of my knowledge, a majority of the voters are against this. So even though the Dems were pushing to pass this bill that most of Americans are against, McCain blames them for defeating it...

I'm a little confused on his logic here...

Him and Obama have both upset me over this Bill but these comments by McCain don't seem very productive... at least to me.

reply to post by eradown


Where you get your information from? Bank runs is the reason that WaMu went under. They lost 16.9 billion in one week as a result of bank runs, causing the FDIC to take over and sell them off to JPmorgan.

Everyday more and more Americans are seeing that the political game is just that, a game.

Popularity and social elitism is no substitute for sound government.

For those of you wanting to share the blame with the American 'people' I say - BS. What are the American people PROMISED when an oath taker is elected into office?

So it's their fault for believing the lies that these socialites spew on the media?

Puhlease

reply to post by marg6043
I hear you. Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi are behaving in an unbelievably stupid manner. Where is the spine in those people?

The Republicans, McCain, and the Democrats are getting on my nerves with their bitching and moaning about whose to blame. US citizens do not want that bill to pass! So what are they playing a blame game for, trying to trash each others candidate for POTUS.

Take names and numbers, those morons should be voted out of office come November 4, 2008!

reply to post by grimreaper797
WaMu was also heavily leveraged against sub-prime mortgage derivatives.

reply to post by Grailkeeper


Very true. I think we're definitely going to see some major retooling of the financial institutions, along with stricter regulations for them. Ideally the government would reinstitute some usury laws to prevent this type of predatory lending.

I'm also thinking that banks are going to have to go through audits now, like the SOX audits the government passed after Enron. Everyone from Main Street to Asia is going to demand that credit is easily read, understood, valued, and followed.

Who knows though, we could go under martial law soon so this wouldn't matter anyhow

Today:
UK lender Bradford & Bingley nationalized,
Huge belgian/dutch/lux. European bank Fortis gets bailout,
in germany it is the Hypo Real Estate bank...

It begins to melt down here in Europe too! And it seems only to be the beginning.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by eradown

 

Where you get your information from? Bank runs is the reason that WaMu went under. They lost 16.9 billion in one week as a result of bank runs, causing the FDIC to take over and sell them off to JPmorgan.

That is not the great depression size panic that some people would like. I think Americans have become so numb to the vanity of the super elites that they do not care what happens. Either way many Americans have been conned. People who have been conned have an easy time saying NO.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by eradown]