Massive financial bailout fails in the House

reply to post by Truther



WOOT!!!!

it's time for the old corrupt way of life to end.....


it's time for NESARA!

reply to post by Truther

The stocks are taking a hit but the dollar is stronger. This is good in the long run. Strong dollar means the poor in the United States will be able to buy more. In the long run that is better for the stock market than giving 700 billion to the stingiest people alive.

reply to post by Seekingmyself


I will explain this as simple as I can. These banks are too big to fail. This isn't 1929, this is a new age of economics, and has been since the early 90's. In the system of globalism, countries are connected economically, and politically. Everything is effected in a domino like effect.

Now, I have been a libertarian for some years now. Unfortunately, this problem calls for people to put their principles aside. Should these banks start to fail, the entire world will feel its effects, and we will feel unemployment numbers like never before.

This are connected to the point where every negative result, causes another negative result.

Let me put it this way. Everyones hours at my job have been cut these past two week. My supervisor is having a hard time getting fulltime hours right now because the economy. People that were getting 30 hours a week two months ago, now can hardly get over 20.

They are trying to not let people go. In a month or two, if this bailout doesn't happen, banks will not be able to sustain the losses they have been taking. Citigroup and Morgan Stanley are looking bad right now, and without this bailout, I can't see them surviving.

Credit markets will freeze, and that means small businesses will start to fail.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by DeadFlagBlues

 

This may sound odd to you, but debt no longer matters. You think we are ever getting out of 10 trillion in debt? Whats another trillion? Its all about foreign faith in the dollar. Foreign countries would have still supported the dollar with this bailout.

This is a fiat currency, it's value is what others believe it to be. We are never getting out of debt, with or without this bill. Letting the markets crash only destroys the average americans ability to survive.

Debt DOES matter and your a fool if you dont think it doesnt. The fact is that debt has to be paid back with interest attached to it. Eventually that interest will crush us for we will not have the funds to pay back the interest. We have a 12 to 15 Trillion dollar economy and a 10 trillion dollar debt. Countries are waking up to the scam man. The system is going to fail all fiat systems do thats just how it is. Unfortunately there is real people money and hard work tied to this corrupt system which is why they are begging for the bailouts. The system needs to crash. We need to get rid of the FED and start following the constitution. Lets ditch the 16th Amendment also.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Pro-bailout negotiators will begin reaching out to Reps who voted Nay to tweak the deal and change their minds. A vote to reconsider is possible for Wednesday, but more likely for Thursday or Friday.

so it drags on for another week, the vote fails again and the whole thing collapses early next week, things are pretty much on schedule then!!!

Originally posted by FredT
Hang onto your 401K here we go

Last time I looked the Dow was down 500+ points

Yes, it will get worse, a lot worse, as the dow is now showing, but, what is this all telling us? It is saying that it`s time to scuttle a banking system that has done nothing for the everyday worker-taxpayer. When you have a system that takes more and more away from those who work, and give them nothing in return, it is bound to fail. I find it hard to fathom why one would agree to having an extended tax burdan put upon themselves, there children, and maybe even their grandchildren, as with this bailout. Some said, well, we the people would get the profits from it in the end. Ok, how long from this point would the end be? A week, a month, a year or never? To me, this bailout plan was no more then the Fed handing us a lottery ticket and saying, here, you have a chance at winning. Now remember, what are your chances at winning any lottery? Not very good, to no chance at all. For most of us, it`s the latter. Oh yes, there is a winner, and it`s not hard to see who would win it. Just look at who have their hands out asking for this money.


My grand parents and parents both use to tell me of what they went through during the depression. It was hard, but, it brought everyone together in a way that has never been seen since, other then WW2. That is what makes this country and it`s people stand out from most. We are strong, and can get through anything we put our minds to, no matter what it is. People will not go without food or a roof over their heads. As with the depression, we will come together and make it through these tough times.



[edit on 29-9-2008 by FiatLux]

reply to post by fleabit


Fleabit, I have to agree with you to a certain point. Americans do assume some responsibility. However, if laws had been obeyed and the credit institutions had not lowered their standards, many of these individuals would have been denied in the first place and therefore would have never been in debt. But many who would have qualified and overextended themselves are to share responsibility.

reply to post by mybigunit


Im not worried about wachovia, I'm worried about citigroup in about a month when they find the bailout isnt going to pass and they couldn't afford to absorb wachovia. Citigroup isn't JPmorgan, their numbers the past three quaters DON'T support this kind of move on their part.

I think she should get out of citigroup.

I don't know what to say. On one hand, I'm happy that this was voted down. I have never felt it was right that the hard working Americans should be forced to foot the bill for corporate screw ups.


But, I also know what this will do to our already fractured economy. We are all in for rough times ahead & I doubt that this bailout would of done anything more than put off the problems. It's like putting a band-aid on a gaping wound.

The market is down 661 now. I think it's a safe bet to say we'll be seeing it hit a low of 9,000 by the end of this week.

Wow, The stocks are down to -670 and dropping.
I wonder if it will drop down to around -1,000 by the end of the day?
I'm glad that it didn't get passed, but at the same time, times are going to get tough ahead folks.

-Jimmy

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Im not worried about wachovia, I'm worried about citigroup in about a month when they find the bailout isnt going to pass and they couldn't afford to absorb wachovia. Citigroup isn't JPmorgan, their numbers the past three quaters DON'T support this kind of move on their part.

I think she should get out of citigroup.

I bank with Wachovia and Im not worried. In fact I bought some Wachovia this morning at .75 and may get out in a day or two

Fox News just reported that the House is staying in session to try and change votes to bring the bill back up for another vote.

Wish I could do that with my congress critters

reply to post by mybigunit


We both know you are calling for the system to crash. I'm not. I'm explaining why. We have been over this in other threads, so lets not derail this thread. Once countries loss faith in our governments ability to back currency, that is when I will agree with you. Until then though, I don't agree.

The foreign governments wouldn't have supported us with this added debt. Mainly because other countries has invested in our success. They have put a great deal of money into the idea that we won't collapse. If we do, they get hurt bad as well. They don't want that.

They don't want us to crash, so I doubt they will ever call in our debt.

reply to post by mybigunit


Well you should be worried. Citigroup absorbed them, and that unsettles me greatly.

reply to post by mybigunit


Hell yeah. I have kept my money out of banks for the better part of three months. I have two 25 dollar balances, which I'm thinking about fetching for kicks.

reply to post by grimreaper797


the thing is, the other governments aren't to healthy either, do you think that will effect their positions?

This is going to sound really jaded but I am wondering if the bill failed for a purpose?

Some estimates were putting the calls to congress at 9 to 1 oppossed to this bailout bill. This is an election year and everyone is worried about their reelection bids.

So what is a congressman to do?

Vote against the bill on the first attempt - watch the markets plunge and then revote when constituents begin to change their opposition as they see their 401(k) go south.

Too tin foil?

b.

As I said, this last 45 minutes of trading would get ugly. Since 3:15, the Dow has dropped more than 100 points. It is already past -725 and dropping fast. I expect more than -700 by the bell easily. (Meaning its not going to come back up much.)

edit: typo

[edit on 29-9-2008 by grimreaper797]

Say what you want about the connection I'm about to make, but I've been thinking a lot about Delmart Mike Vreeland, Leo E. Wanta and that whole weird happening. Anyone think there may be a connection?

www.apfn.org...
www.apfn.org...
www.apfn.org...
www.apfn.org...
www.apfn.org...
www.apfn.org...
www.apfn.org...
www.apfn.org...

I see a lot of banks listed in the faxes that are involved in the current collapses. A LOT of money changing hands as well. I'd google the above names for more info. This rabbit hole goes deep.

(posted here: www.abovetopsecret.com... as well.)

[edit on 29-9-2008 by kaspermartyrphantom]

Republican Response

Here's the Republican response to why the bailout bill failed.

Still searching for the Democrat response....