Massive financial bailout fails in the House

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by eradown

 

First off, this isn't the great depression, and its not going to happen like the great depression. We aren't even in the same economic system as the time of the depression.

This new depression is going to take everyone by completely surprise because they were looking for signs from a system we don't have anymore. People are looking at the past as a meassure for how bad the situation is, and that is a horrible error, since this isn't the same system.

How can it depression or whatever take us by surprise? Scaremongers have been telling everyone to put their money into gold, dog food ,and guns for several years now. I myself look at it depression or whatever you want to call it as I would my car getting totalled by an illegal alien without insurance. It's just with this latest adventure in bad luck there is more company than there is normally .

I would rather have them not pass the Bailout Plan at all. I mean do we really need to be buying bad paper somewhat based on inflated assets that will never be recovered, just to stave off in the short term something that is going to happen at some point anyhow.

I would have them keep the dollar somewhat strong for now, and try to come to with a better solution that does not involve throwing money at it. If they cannot come up with a better initiative, I would say that they should let the markets make their correction (which is going to happen anyhow).

If they want to $700 billion to stimulate the economy, I would say instead of bailing out the credit market in its death knoll (which no longer will debt be our number one export, period) have the $700 as credit to upcoming companies that can bring innovation, industry and jobs back to our economy, providing they and employees remain in the United States. This would bring back our economy even stronger, while providing real industry to the economy in America.

I say let the market correct itself. It might mean some hard times, but it would be worth it if we come back stronger.

Originally posted by bruxfain
What's so special about bankers anyway, aren't money changers a legendary source of bs within society? Shouldn't it be a good thing that their industry is dying?

We need the financials to spur economic growth around the world. The problem is that the financial industry grew tentacle across the world and many of the companies "become to big to fail".

We should let the one that need to die to die, the ones that avoid risk and did good bussiness to survive and then find a way to create firewalls to divide this companies in some way so they wont become TBTF again.

We need the industry we just dont need the bad practices.

Enough of this, our congress is acting like children.
I dont want us to pay for the big wigs(and goernment to have to bali them out, but if we dont sign this bill, uor econemy is going to flop like never before and we cant afford that for reasons more tham just that .
I feel it will also mess with (the power of Russoa/china/ iran/ and every country that isnt our allie even some that are..

On another note I heard that Russias stock market has been closed for 2-3 weeks .
anyone else hear of this???

Does anyone know what the "limit down" floor is for the DOW before
trading is halted for the day? I think it's expressed as a percentage
drop.

Also, why are the news pundits so aghast over this bill being voted
down by the house? They've been reporting every day that the
majority of the American public is against the $700 billion bailout
using taxpayer money. They're not too bright are they.
-cwm

All the talking heads who are astonished that it did not pass demonstrates how out of touch these experts are with the population. Most of the USA do not have an adequate retirement plan, kids in private school, or job security.
The middle class has been already decimated, and people consider themselves poor or crushed by debt. If no Bail Out means a paycheck is missed or a month’s rent is skipped it is no big deal. We have already been through 2 job changes and 3 moves in the last 10 years. The poor and lower middle class working people are snickering as those who though they were doing well get to adapt to a little personal financial crisis. We are used to adapting to hardship. Welcome to the club. This is a victory for the poor.

reply to post by grimreaper797


The Dow Jones down 777 pts!!! Coincidence... I think not.

Originally posted by bridger2
So this is a major crisis?

Ive just heard on the news that the house of representatives won`t resume until thursday because of a jewish holiday!

great time for a holiday!

Are you kidding? The HOR was due to recess for the rest of the YEAR after today. The fact that they are meeting Thursday is a freakin' miracle!

Also, here's the breakdown of votes to the Bailout bill in the House:

Democrats voting Yes - 140 (corrected); voting No - 95

Republicans voting Yes - 65; voting No - 133

Source: www.msnbc.msn.com...

It was the Republicans who scuttled the deal in the House today, not the Dems.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by sos37]

reply to post by carewemust


because some members of Congress had said it would. Gullible they are I guess.

In addition both parties had said they had reached an agreement and usually they don't call a vote unless they know it will pass.

reply to post by eradown


Because people aren't expecting the kind of depression we will be facing. The majority of people simply don't see whats happening here. Today was a wake up call, but they still don't see how far reaching it will be in this new globalization system we are in.

reply to post by sos37


your numbers add up to 210 yeas. I was sure it was 207 then when they started to twist arms two more jumped to the Nays leaving it at 205.

Currently down 777.68 \l/
The clock is ticking,and the U.S dollar is almost on life support.
And America is continuing to baby step towards......

reply to post by jam321
Bah,Jam don't buy into election hype man there is no way either McCain or Obama can do anything about the death of the bailout scam bill.

They keeping mentioning the bad mortgages. The other day I read a report that about 95% are paying their mortgage. That leaves 5% in default. How could 5% destroy the market. You would assume they would just go back to quit loaning money unless you have the income to back it up. Could it be that there are other elements involved that they are not telling us about?

reply to post by Black_Fox


The dollar is weakening because the 630 billion dollars the FED just pumped in to "stabalize" (which means destabalize) the market! They didn't get it passed by the people, so they flushed the market full by themselves.

GET OUTRAGED!

The whole system is propped up on overinflated property values.
Entire communities get all their tax revenue from overinflated property value. When them million dollar homes that only took eighty grand to build sit there generating zero tax revenue as vacant lots you will start to see the real crunch. There's no way people are going to buy them at their currently assessed values. People won't even buy them off the backtaxes owed in the courts because they will be stuck with enormously oveinflated property taxes. It may take a few years for readjustments in property values. In the meantime no potholes in your roads will be getting filled.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
reply to post by Black_Fox

 

The dollar is weakening because the 630 billion dollars the FED just pumped in to "stabalize" (which means destabalize) the market! They didn't get it passed by the people, so they flushed the market full by themselves.

GET OUTRAGED!

Yup you dont hear about this do you? The FED ALREADY put in over 600 billion. Now on top of this they want another 700 billion. No vote just straight up dollar creation.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


Is that the same 630 billion spending bill Congress passed or something different? I know the house passed a spending bill the other day around the same amount.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
reply to post by pieman

 

So you are saying that russia and china can successfully continue their growth with a frozen credit market?

Well if he isn't saying it i will. Yes, Russia will still be able to export oil and gas and will still be able to give the revenue's in credit to countries who are actually paying their bills. China can refocus it's masses of consumer goods on it's own consumer markets by pumping the hundreds of billions it were lending American consumers into it's own market thus creating buying power. Why the Chinese have not done this so far i really don't know and maybe that would be a more interesting discussion point than presuming that the US can not and will not allow the Dollar to seriously decline and the US consumer to start paying their bills.

The current world order was always unsustainable as us consumers spent while a substantial part of the rest of the world handed over goods to be consumed while accepting the promises that they will be paid 'eventually'.

Nothing is too big too fail and this is a lesson Americans will have to relearn before the world economy gets back on track.

Stellar

reply to post by grimreaper797


The only thing we dont agree is when the government should intervene.

No matter what the government do, how much money they lend, how much assets they buy, how much money they inject to the economy and the world markets is not going to change the fundamentals flaws that this current economic system have.

I do not think this bill would have address anything AT ALL.

If the other countries dont want the U.S. to fail then they should let us fix our system and encourage us to do so, it would be to their benefit also.

There is two things that need to be adress short time:

1. Decreasing home values.

2. Unfreeze the credit markets.

Time would correct those. There is no need to keep placing patches instead of letting the free markets correct themselves.

After the markets correct themselves is that then we should proceed and put in place the regulations necessary to prevent this from happening again.




[edit on 29-9-2008 by Bunch]

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Bunch]