Massive financial bailout fails in the House

Could this be the chance the United States government has been waiting for, to finally settle it's national debt? If the US bails these companies out of debt, it has legal rights to the companies. How much would it take for them to sell these businesses to the highest bidder? Who would bid on these banks and housing companies? We are talking about massive buyouts of billion dollar companies, whose rights go straight to the government, supposedly Diamler Chrysler is still paying out it's bailout from the eighties to the Government. So technically the US has a lien on the massive corporation. Don't know if my conspiracy theory is true, but it seems like a stretched possibility.

Sorry I lost the link I wanted to post here.





[edit on 30-9-2008 by FiatLux]

Originally posted by nfotech
In response to several posters -

"it's the Republicans / Democrats fault"
People really need to get a clue, there is no two party system fighting for different ideals and there hasn't been for a long time. The same money buys both sides, they work together just fine when it comes to screwing us over. The only time they really start to even act like a two party system is around election time and even that is mostly staged. If people can't grasp this concept they may as well give up and go back to watching Idol re-runs.

Look at the advisers and contributors standing behind each candidate if you want to see these people for what they really are. McCain is surrounded by school of Chicago neo cons and Obama has Z Big and Soros. If you had to vote for the real powers, these people "behind the throne" I would guess most of us wouldn't vote for either one of these guys. Just as the democrats failed to bring about change from the last election, "change" will continue to be MIA, unless you're talking about changes to our rights, freedoms, and pocket books.


Please stop listening to bloggers and newscasters who tell you it's the poor people who took out mortgages they couldn't really afford who brought on this mess. It's simply not true. Poor, ethnic communities where housing loan programs were implemented actually have some of the highest repayment rates. The govt and the banks collaborated to extend credit to people they knew would not be able to pay it back. This was a planned failure for the purpose of building a convenient vehicle in which to hide all the bodies related to govt and finance sector fraud over the past 20 years. "BAIL-out" indeed, it's free bail for crimes they plan to get away with, period.

We've heard many alternatives, many of which would actually rebuild our economy and bring prosperity to the common people. They will not implement any of these short of a voter revolution. If you really love this country and your children / grandchildren it's time to break away from the political system, clean house from your city all the way to the DC capitol - and start voting for real people with real solutions.

They are counting on you being too stupid and too lazy to defend yourselves. They are literally bending you all over in the prison yard and most of you are only too glad to comply.

yup , what we need to to is get paulson OUT OF the U.S treasury SOON

next we need to mass email mccain/ obama exactly what you say (it's a one party (wall street/establisment majority party) system and were done falling for it, (and we plan to write in PAUL/ Kucinich, and third we will be weary of a false flag attack that diverts are anger away from the "greedy culprits " in a final desperate attempt to pass this thing with "eyes wide shut" and fourth we will be aware of any attemps on the lives of such canditates should they (kucinich/paul) be elected and then patriotically revoke the unconstitutional power of the federal reserve to print the U.S money (and unnecessarily indebt the country) just like Lincoln (greenbacks) and Kennedy attempted to do! This would cause the scum bags at the top to collectively S*&T their pants. The funny thing is we are the one country that still has the power to do this, and you can bet there are contigent plans being made to attack this threat to the establisment party.

Also pay attention to the upcoming supreme court ruling that is defining and clarifying how the term "enemy combatent" pertains to u.s citizens. The war is on between the establisment /wall street party and REAWAKENING americans and the few patriots we have left in congress

also the u.s is not trying to settle there "national debt" no country has ever paid there debt back in full, and the u.s can't , nor would it if it could


[edit on 29-9-2008 by cpdaman]

reply to post by Coniuratus


I think you are on to something.

The U.S. is facing a ever increasing debt that is not going to go away, so one way to reduced the debt is to decrease the value of the dollar which would scare away investors which it already has, have the government buy all this distress assest at penny on the dollar, wait a decade or two in order to see these investments payoff and utilize the money to pay the debt.

You know how I know this is not the case? It would be to smart of a plan for the government to have thought about it.

reply to post by Bunch


Bunch, you know anything about the mark to market accounting principle?

Supposedly, this is also contributing to the crisis.

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
The evidence is showing that congress is listening to the people for a change......


This is amazing......


(rays of hope shine through)

Not Really, they just want to keep their jobs. If it was the begining of their terms instead of the end I guarentee you this bill would have passed easily.

reply to post by EvilAxis

I must say that EvilAxis posted the absolute best Youtube video link of all time on this thread.

Quite right, it was a crisis that never needed to happen, until our President proclaimed
“This sucker could go down!”

The EvilAxis Youtube video is really Tom Terrific. It addresses (in a humorous yet intelligent way) the de facto devaluation of the Dollar by flooding banks with Dollars.

I truly loved it when the fellow being interviewed began splitting sheets of toilet paper, stating "This is worth a million dollars a piece, more or less."

Are we allowing the creation of hyperinflation by allowing our government to bailout their buddies? Is this administration recreating the Weimar Republic in America? These are rational concerns, and inquiring minds want to know!

Won't the Dollar decline in value proportional to that printing of worthless paper?
Won't the Fed be able to instigate a circular action where taxpayer’s pay $1.00 for every bad loan; then Paulson has the ability to sell it for .20 cents to corporate pals, who in turn profit? Profit like by selling the valuable assets (That they were allowed to buy, at Paulson’s unbridled discretion, not subject to review or oversight) for a huge markup, to we common folk. Wouldn’t the American taxpayer foot the bill for this incredible scam?
This is the contemptuous greedy end most exactly contemplated by proposing this ridiculous 700 billion “bailout bill!” It is so boringly rife with corruption. Really, a person doesn’t have to have more than a marginal IQ to see through this proposed shenanigan.

All the President has to do to buck up the stock market is to issue an Executive Order exempting capital gains caused by inflation from taxation. That would provide immediate market relief. The he could say, “You know, things are really better that I thought at first. I made a mistake. The American economy is fundamentally sound, we just need to get rid of these “Free-Trade Agreements” that appear to be decimating American jobs…” Such a rational statement or two would tell Mr. Stock Market to go up. While the President is at it, perhaps he could get on the phone to Big Money and assure them that they should be calm about market manipulation while sensible legislation is appropriately considered to safeguard Americans from foreclosures and the like. He has speechmakers that could write a some sort of anti-piracy script, and Teleprompters to use to announce his “Revelations from the Mount”.

It's all on the Youtube, so bon appetite, for they yearn to cook the Dollar with confidence and indiscretion!

It's absolutely "on the money" and sums up the piracy we face in the event of passage of anything remotely similar to the 700 billion-giveaway auction for select corporate bidders for paper and foreclosures sold at America’s expense. Great Post, EvilAxis!

Flash_dancer

Hear ye, hear ye, the American people DO have real power and influence. All too often we bare witness to our Federal Representatives wishing to shove issues and compliance down our throats, through stacked bills and non-transparent earmarks. This however, much in the same way which the Immigration Reform Bill was shot down for attempting to grant amnesty to law breakers, proves that Americans have a strong voice even beyond the act of casting Votes. Pay close attention to who voted yay or nay on and/or supported/did not support this Legislation, and use such actions to guide your Senatorial and Congressional decisions this Election Season.

reply to post by jam321


Some members of Congress wants to repeal the mark to market rule becasue they say it will add capital to the companies that hold these distress assets right now.

How?

Instead of using the "mark to market" technique they want to use an average price that the security has fetched in the last 3 years.

Why is this important?

When a company that is going belly up or needs to raise capital at any cost, they would sell many of their assets at pennies on the dollar. That makes that other companies that held the same type of assets to issue writedowns on the values of their same type of assets even if their assets are not in a distress position. The "mark to market" standard force them to do this in many cases.

What all this is important?

Many of the financial institutions that have gone belly up or still fighting for survival found themselves in a highly leveraged when they started taking and issuing these writedowns and margin calls start pouring in making these companies to fight for survival by trying to raise capital that was not given to them by the government, private equity firms or hedge funds.

IMO the repealing of the "mark to market" principle would be a good way to solidify the position of many of the financial institutions that still stands and most importantly it would provide a floor for house prices value to bottom out. Thats a good thing.

It doesn't do anything IMO in order to unfreeze the credit situation, I think other things need to be worked out for that to happen.

I think it's very clear what the real plan was. They hoped to hit us with an economic 9-11 - "our economy is hanging 100 feet up over a whirpool of acid and sharks and we need to hand Paulsen absolute, God-like powers and lots of cash to fix it".

They thought the people would freak out and the congress would be able to pass this one easily on it's way out the door.

The sudden and violent opposition by vocal Americans has rocked them. They are facing an election in less than 2 months and the calls and emails finally got their attention.

These "law makers" are paralyzed now. They know passing the planned bailout package is electoral suicide yet they will refuse to pass any logical and intelligent counter plan.

I'll say it again, they devised this "crisis" in order to sweep decades of fraud and larceny under the rug. The thought of a voter and taxpayer revolution combined with failing to do the bidding of the shadow govt (fed reserve bankers) is what brought Paulsen to his knees. These guys might be facing not only investigations and prison time but also loss of their criminal profits and retribution from the shadow govt.

If McCain had an ounce of intelligence he would break from the party on this one, accept Palin's resignation and bring Ron Paul on as his vice president and policy maker. I believe these actions combined with a real economic solution would sweep him to victory in a landslide. The support and backing of the big banks and fellow politicians is not as critical at this point in time.

It would be nice to see, too bad the majority of our elected "officials" are bought and paid for whores.

We need to start responding like this and demand real solutions on every critical issue and demand a return to hand counted, paper ballots with open and transparent counting. If we do not reclaim our power as the voters the coup we've lived under for decades will fester into an open dictatorship. I really don't care who wins as long as they truly won by honest and fair elections.

"Who gives a *&^% what the voters "want", they don't really "vote" anymore anyway. We control the elections, the results and the media. The American public just "pretends" to matter until we no longer need the illusion." - (Presidential advisor over heard speaking to donors at a fund raising dinner).

Many politicians say they were unaware of the crisis. Here is a july 2008 survey of banks saying they were going to tighten their credit lending. Report by Federal Reserve board. Do you really buy that?

www.federalreserve.gov...

Here is a monetary policy to Congress from FRB from July 15 2008.

www.federalreserve.gov...

Treasury Economic Update 8.1.08

www.treas.gov...

Getting ready to make up signs to hold it on the corners and beg for money.

The market hasn't hit rock bottom yet. I will in the coming months. Every business will be affected even more everyday, until they crumble.

The strong remaining companies will eventually feel the effect, and go down under. Every sector will have a bunch of unemployed people.

The only way the market will work itself out is to go into a complete depression, it is only then that it can't get any worst, besides up.

[edit on 30-9-2008 by amfirst]

Does this statement from Barney Frank sound like the power that Secretary Paulson has been asking for?

“I welcome the speech today by Secretary Paulson, and I agree with him that we need to restructure the way the United States financial system is regulated. In particular, I welcome his conclusion that ‘First, we should quickly consider how to most appropriately give the Federal Reserve the authority to access necessary information from complex financial institutions and the authority to act to mitigate systemic risk in advance of a crisis.

source

Originally posted by mybigunit
Wow I thought for SURE the government would pass this with ease. I guess a little bit of America still exists out there. This failure to pass really gives me hope. Suffer just like the rest of us take your hits when you lose and live it up when you make your gains.

you never know why they voted against...if certain people want financial trouble maybe they've realized this is the way to go...or maybe they have voted against for the right reasons..i..for one...will never stop questioning their actions..even if they appear to be doing what the people want..

Finally, I found something on the meeting between Barney Frank Committee and Paulson, and Bernake that was on July 11, 2008.

Here is a quote from Senator Frank

"We have the power to respond if there are crises," Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), the committee's chairman, said at the hearing. "What we are looking for are rules that will make the crises less likely."

"We will begin working on this," he said, "And I hope that early next year we will be able to complete it."

Does anybody know what powers to respond to crises they have used?



What Paulson said

Paulson said there was greater urgency to create a new system to dispose of the assets of a failing financial firm in a way that would not cause broad economic distress. He acknowledged that too will take time.

source

Notice the dispose of assets......

I guess that it will take time means about two months.....

i was thinking

they said a major reason it didnt pass was the outcry from phoneing/emailing representitives.

so lets keep it up. lets continue by inandating them with Abolish the Fed calls and emails.

we know they have to listen

iv already emailed 5 different people tonight telling them im glad they voted against the bill but its only the begginging and that now they must look at the Fed and the large banking interest in this country and that we will no longer tolerate them.

if anything they will at least se a mass of calls/emails on the subject and be forced to think

# THE FED!!

Anyone other than me notice how this is being reported by the MSM as "House Fails to Act", rather than "House Obeys the Will of the People." You don't suppose they're trying to influence opinion do you? Na. No way.

Pisses me off! Hey, CNN and Fox, etc... Screw you. We (the people) actually won this one DESPITE your ignorant propaganda.

Originally posted by jam321
Finally, I found something on the meeting between Barney Frank Committee and Paulson, and Bernake that was on July 11, 2008.

Here is a quote from Senator Frank

"We have the power to respond if there are crises," Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), the committee's chairman, said at the hearing. "What we are looking for are rules that will make the crises less likely."

"We will begin working on this," he said, "And I hope that early next year we will be able to complete it."

Does anybody know what powers to respond to crises they have used?



What Paulson said

Paulson said there was greater urgency to create a new system to dispose of the assets of a failing financial firm in a way that would not cause broad economic distress. He acknowledged that too will take time.

source

Notice the dispose of assets......

I guess that it will take time means about two months.....

Respond to crisis... they are referring to NSPD 51...

www.whitehouse.gov...

No big deal, just wipes Bush's ass with the Constitution I swore to protect.

Ah, I found the link that I wanted to post. It comes from Forbes. When I got to the part where the treasury spokes woman talks about how they came up with the amount needed for the bailout, my jaw dropped open. It`s like, WHAT? It only tells me, that not one of those people know what they are doing. It sounds like the amount that they said they needed to 'fix" the problem, was a way to scare the government into moving fast on it. When in the whole time, they didn`t really know how much was needed. Yea, and these are the same ones who wanted unlimited power over this.


www.forbes.com...


What are your thoughts on this?

[edit on 30-9-2008 by FiatLux]

Not sure what to make of this, but its being thrown out their on the web

American pressure on the Gulf-States to save Wall StreetGulf diplomatic sources in New York, told Al-Akhbar that they are concerned about the U.S. pressures on the Gulf-countries to absorb the currency liquidity available in their banks.

The United States sent harsh messages to its Gulf allies demanding serious contribution in Bush’s financial rescue plan to prevent the complete collapse of financial markets.

Especially after Qatar Investment Authority rejected the investment of part of its assets in the U.S. market, Preferring to invest in Asian markets.

www.roadstoiraq.com...


if we are starting to threaten allies I think the situations going to get fired up in the next few days.